Online dating

[monkeynuts]

I understand people’s opinions with regards to rebounds. Now god I wouldn’t want to drag anyone through that by all means.

 

It’s all been taken and and sitting on the fence I guess it could be quite rash to jump back into the online dating game.

 

This post was also to gauge others views with regards to online dating.

 

With regards to my hobbies it could lead to meeting someone someday, yet the Marjority of people are in relationships and to be fair I go there to train not chat up the females! Being a sweaty shattered mess the only thing I crave is a shower ha.

 

I have been doing voluntary work, again not doing it as an avenue to eventually meet women.

 

It really does seem it’s either bars/nightclubs or online dating to meet people now days.

 

Maybe I have been a little prudent on one of my ‘good’ couple of days.

 

Advice and criticism noted people. :)

 

Have to add that meet-up looks like a good social networking place. Will look into it more after new year!

[katrina1980]

Yes I'm sure there is. And unless the person has tons of free time and is fine with the annoyance/stresses of meeting people that way including potential friends I would not advise it.

 

Having said that my friend's wife had a profile many years ago that basically said she was new to the city and wanted someone who'd be willing to show her around. I think she likely also mentioned that she was looking to date but that was her focus -her spin so to speak. My friend responded and 2 years later they were married so I guess that approach worked!

 

Do you remember the thread a few weeks ago; I think it was thornes who said she was talking to a guy on line who said something along the lines of he wanted to be friends first, and see what if anything developed from that.

 

I had my theory that some people do that to take the initial pressure off (the pressure to click/feel chemistry with a literal stranger), and often times that approach does work, a mutual attraction develops, and they go on to date long term, or in your friend's case got married!

 

So obviously YES her approach did work! Thanks for sharing!

[thisisrichey]

All good Monkey... this is a forum - where we exchange ideas. So it's just sharing experiences and information and thus not personal, and not criticism. So all good :)

 

Yes.. i get it. You go the gym to train, not find a wifey. Absolutely agreed. What I'm saying though, is keep an open mind. There is no rule that says you must find your lifemate via a dating service, app, or at the bar. They can come from anywhere and if you ask obviously happy and healthy married couples - it's immediate apparent that it coudl happen AT ANY TIME in ANY situation. So it's really more a message to NOT be closed to every and any opportunity - which is far differnt from saying "ACTIVELY look" at the gym, or while biking, or at work, or in class, or while shopping for halloween candy at the grocery store, or hell.. at the bar. :)

 

The truth is you could bump into a special person you actually could be very compatible with - ANYTIME, ANYWHERE. So just be OPEN and observant if for some reason something like that comes along. It would be the same excellent advice any SMART person would follow when it comes to jobs, a career, a house purchasing or real estate opportunity, etc. Always be open and aware and don't just automatically block off 50% or 75% of the world as you go about your day.

 

The answer to "when are we ready to date again" is very simple. You're ready again when you really dont' care if you date or find somebody to date. THAT'S when you're ready. If there is even an inkling of "i gotta find somebody" - you're not ready. That's the answer!

[Batya33]

Do you remember the thread a few weeks ago; I think it was thornes who said she was talking to a guy on line who said something along the lines of he wanted to be friends first, and see what if anything developed from that.

 

I had my theory that some people do that to take the initial pressure off (the pressure to click/feel chemistry with a literal stranger), and often times that approach does work, a mutual attraction develops, and they go on to date long term, or in your friend's case got married!

 

So obviously YES her approach did work! Thanks for sharing!

 

I don't agree because I don't think there should be pressure to feel chemistry with a stranger. I think that people who want a potentially long term relationship should understand that it can take some time to click in that way and will be willing to go out at least 3 or 4 times with a person as long as it seems there is potential for a spark, as long as there are things in common, you're not repulsed, etc. And sometimes it will be there from the get go.

 

Many people who want "friends first" equate dating with sex, and with sex that distracts from getting to know the person - I find that attitude sad. There is no reason why physical affection and kissing and cuddling and sexual attraction and intimacy has to detract from getting to know the whole person. In fact it should enhance it. Yes, if a guy had written that he was new to the city so that he also wanted to explore the city as part of dating that would have been fine. I passed over anyone who wrote "friends first" because it didn't jibe with my view of dating/relationships, etc.

 

So with the example I gave she didn't want friends. She claimed to want a tour guide of sorts. She is a very traditional person and she felt uncomfortable being "forward" in a dating profile so she was kind of coy with the "tour guide" thing. She wanted the man to ask her out on a date and so did the whole "I'm new here and looking to explore the city with a nice guy" kind of thing. I remember when I first met her she was already making couple noises and "we like this" and "we do that" -they'd been dating about two months at that point. He proposed after one year because he was pretty sure she'd be history if he didn't propose by then. And yes happily married for over 15 years.

[figureitout23]

All good Monkey... this is a forum - where we exchange ideas. So it's just sharing experiences and information and thus not personal, and not criticism. So all good :)

 

Yes.. i get it. You go the gym to train, not find a wifey. Absolutely agreed. What I'm saying though, is keep an open mind. There is no rule that says you must find your lifemate via a dating service, app, or at the bar. They can come from anywhere and if you ask obviously happy and healthy married couples - it's immediate apparent that it coudl happen AT ANY TIME in ANY situation. So it's really more a message to NOT be closed to every and any opportunity - which is far differnt from saying "ACTIVELY look" at the gym, or while biking, or at work, or in class, or while shopping for halloween candy at the grocery store, or hell.. at the bar. :)

 

The truth is you could bump into a special person you actually could be very compatible with - ANYTIME, ANYWHERE. So just be OPEN and observant if for some reason something like that comes along. It would be the same excellent advice any SMART person would follow when it comes to jobs, a career, a house purchasing or real estate opportunity, etc. Always be open and aware and don't just automatically block off 50% or 75% of the world as you go about your day.

 

The answer to "when are we ready to date again" is very simple. You're ready again when you really dont' care if you date or find somebody to date. THAT'S when you're ready. If there is even an inkling of "i gotta find somebody" - you're not ready. That's the answer!

 

I love all of this especially the last paragraph. Once you view dating as a complement to your life and not a need/ void fill that’s when you going to have the best time getting out there.

 

I know people are tired of my rants and raves about waiting until you’re ready, but I see the effects of it every day on these boards. I’m not saying there’s some magic switch or time period that certifies you ready but if you can’t get through the day without thinking about your ex because you’re still mourning the end of the relationship, if you’re between jobs, or your parent just died or any life event, give that life event the time and space it deserves. Dating isn’t a coping mechanism. We’re so instant gratification oriented now a days, sometimes I think it’s to our detriment. We don’t give enough respect to our mental health, we don’t allow our as Kat likes to say energy time to replenish itself, our statue gets chipped and it’s like yeah let me go chip it some more. Is it guaranteed to get chipped more? Of course not. But the risk doesn’t seem worth it if you end up more broken with each subsequent event. All that damage for some soup and salad? I’m telling you I think if our society didn’t view singledom as a dirty word we wouldn’t be so afraid of it.

 

I recently started talking to an acquaintance romantically and it’s new and fun and I like it dating now is fun for me, and it didn’t use to be like this, I’m not saying this guys my soul mate or anything we could end up not even going forward but I’m ok with that, I’m not riddled with anxiety, and trust me I have anxiety, I’m not scared, I’m not unprepared to be hurt because I built my statue back up so it can withstand another hit. And dating is risk, relationships are risk, the reward makes it all worth it but there is risk, why not be fully prepared for that risk? And if not fully prepared at least somewhat prepared.

 

I think a good question to ask isnt am I ready to date but can I handle another heartbreak right now? If the answers no as my mother says, go sit your fast a** down! 😂

[katrina1980]

I don't agree because I don't think there should be pressure to feel chemistry with a stranger.

 

Well you're entitled to your opinion of course, but I will tell you that for me (and others with whom I've spoken), I very much did feel that pressure (and I was looking for a relationship) and it's one reason why I dislike OLDing even though it is how I met my current bf.

 

But we clicked before even meeting so didn't feel it as much. It all felt very natural when we met, due to connecting on line prior to meeting in person.

 

Just my experience Bat. Everyone's is different and I would never say something like there "shouldn't" be any pressure, doing so invalidates another person's feelings and experience.

 

Anyway, not sure what causes some people to feel that pressure/discomfort, others not, perhaps it's having too high expectations, anxiety (which I have struggled with for years) but it was very real for me.

 

I would much rather meet men in person spontaneously which for years I did. Meeting and clicking with my current boyfriend on line was actually a big surprise, he was only the second man I met!

 

Did not click with the first guy at all, either on line or in person, but he made me laugh so I thought why not meet him, turned out to be a total waste of time!

[Batya33]

Well you're entitled to your opinion of course, but I will tell you that for me (and others with whom I've spoken), I very much did feel that pressure (and I was looking for a relationship) and it's one reason why I dislike OLDing even though it is how I met my current bf.

 

But we clicked before even meeting so didn't feel it as much. It all felt very natural when we met, due to connecting on line prior to meeting in person.

 

Just my experience Bat. Everyone's is different and I would never say something like there "shouldn't" be any pressure, doing so invalidates another person's feelings and experience.

 

Anyway, not sure what causes some people to feel that pressure/discomfort, others not, perhaps it's having too high expectations, anxiety (which I have struggled with for years) but it was very real for me.

 

I would much rather meet men in person spontaneously which for years I did. Meeting and clicking with my current boyfriend on line was actually a big surprise, he was only the second man I met!

 

Did not click with the first guy at all, either on line or in person, but he made me laugh so I thought why not meet him, turned out to be a total waste of time!

 

I was giving my opinion of what I did when I was dating. Someone who felt pressure to feel chemistry on a first meet with a stranger would not be the right person for me. Someone who needed to be "friends first" would not be the right person for me. I did date men who I knew as friends but not where I was meeting them to be buddies first. I had enough friends and had no interest in meeting friends through a dating site. I am now friendly with a few men I met through dating sites many years ago but not because they wanted friends first.

 

You misread what I wrote -it was my opinion and how I dated and it doesn't invalidate someone's feelings -it simply means that if that person is going to feel that much pressure in meeting a stranger that he insists on friends first -that's fine and valid and not a match for me. All those things are true.

 

I found OLD spontaneous because I met many men at singles events and through fix ups so as long as I met asap after that first contact it was basically the same level of spontaneity. I met men out in life also - OLD was only one approach I used to find a husband.

[Wiseman2]

If you decide, in addition to real life avenues for expanding social circles making new friends, potentially meeting women etc, you want to add online dating to the mix, the tips from lostandhurt here are the best. Print them out and follow each step: https://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=556188&p=7078451&viewfull=1#post7078451

 

I still see no harm in getting a few nice pics, composing a good profile, signing up for a pay site, browsing a bit and when ready, start the paid subscription to begin chatting with and meeting some women for a low key drink/coffee.

 

I also don't think staying in suspended animation, doing the monk route for too long has any benefit to you or anyone else. Also you of all people, know best if you are on the rebound. The ex would still be in your heart and mind to a distracting level and you wouldn't be starting threads on the best way to move forward.

This post was also to gauge others views with regards to online dating.

[Sportster2005]

Some of my friend swear by it, others detest it saying there are other ways, I guess more conventional ways to meet people.

It doesn't have to be either/or. Use both.

My dilemma. My hobbies take up most evenings. I’m not a massive fan of getting ‘wasted’ at all anymore. In fact I’ve gone teetotal since I’ve been doing a new fitness regime.

We spend our time on what our priorities are. If you you won't make time for someone, you'll be alone. Or find someone you can do those things with.

 

 

Do I cross attractive women in my supermarket...nope.

Cold calling is overrated anyways.

 

So I did bite the bullet a few weeks ago and joined online to bumble and pof. Already off off as I don’t like it. Bumble seems ok and recently put a little Moreno effort into writing out my profile. Though I’m wondering if I should find a paying site? As free ones seem to not be...shall we say as decent?

I found paying for Match adequate. POF has been circling the toilet for years IMHO. Never used bumble. My experience is you'll find more serious people on paid sites. No one likes to waste money.

 

 

Just want to get back out into the dating game. Meet interesting people.

 

One of the best benefits I found of OLD was increasing the scope of my social circles. i.e I met one gal who shared the passion of motorcycles. I wasn't interested, but she wanted to stay friends and asked me to join their all woman riding group on the first Wednesday of each month. They invited guys on this one day. I met more women, which lead to meeting more women, and ended up on dates. I didn't join the club specifically to meet women, but I do open the door when opportunity knocks.

 

I have found that after years and years of OLD that you will do best if you don't take it too serious. Have realistic expectations. Realise every one on there spends most of their time rejecting people, and being rejected. That's why OLD can be so frustrating and soul crushing.

[monkeynuts]

Yeah I understand the throws with OLD.

 

When I feel ‘ready’ I.e no longer have heartache then I may look into paying sites.

 

I’m between jobs currently and having busted my ankle training ( resting with an ice pack ) guess it’s giving me a lot of time to overnight think things.

 

It isn’t my mission to ‘find’ someone. I don’t pin hopes on I have to find someone before I hit a certain age.

 

One of my longest standing friends I met online, mutual love of motorcycles. I remember things starting going down the route of “could we date” yet it never materialised. We now see each other as siblings more than potential partners.

 

I’m just exploring. Venting on here. Seeking peoples advice. People from all walks of life’s. Different experiences. Ages etc

Everyone has different views and stories to share. It’s interesting to read. How varied the response are gives a good insight to how humans view things differently.

 

I do find it funny how society seems to imprint on people they ‘have’ to be in a relationship or they’re not normal. That a house, children and marriage are ‘normal’ avenues to take.

There feels like so much pressure from society to obtain certain aspects in your life.

[Batya33]

"I do find it funny how society seems to imprint on people they ‘have’ to be in a relationship or they’re not normal. That a house, children and marriage are ‘normal’ avenues to take.

There feels like so much pressure from society to obtain certain aspects in your life."

 

I find it funny how people are assumed to be like sheep. I mostly see this attitude from people who are not that into being in a relationship -which is fine - but also have conflicting feelings about it. I too was subjected to a lot of comments about how "normal" it was to have 2.5 kids, etc - and since I am an individual person who has her own thoughts and goals etc I took that in, just like lots of other societal pressures back then (to drink/smoke/try drugs, be thin, etc) and considered them as an individual. Certainly way back when women had few options if they did not marry and in certain cultures there are arranged marriages.

 

I remember 20 plus years ago having dinner with a married friend and he said "well we're going to buy a house soon -you know, that's the next stage you do at this age" or something like that. It felt dismissive of my singlehood even though I was living on my own, financially independent, nest egg, successful career. Fast forward and I am married 10 years with a child and we rent and have always rented -we can afford a house no problem but I have no interest and he has little interest (I've never lived in a house). So no it's not the 'next stage" for everyone and has nothing to do with being an adult. Neither does marriage or parenthood. I know plenty of married people and parents who don't behave like adults.

 

And I always wanted to be married and have a child. Because I wanted that. Was there societal reinforcement? Of course. Didn't affect me at all and it's kind of offensive to me to suggest that somehow I was brainwashed to want these things.

[frustrated1]

Personally I do not like online dating. I have tried it many tines, but when I look back on my relationships, the ones that have happened naturally are generally the ones that have lasted and been positive.

 

Everyone has different experiences, and I’m sure the geographical area and types of websites can effect ones experience with OLD. The majority of the men I spoke to and met were not serious about a relationship (however if you are not seeking something serious then this will not be an issue for you). 90% of the time I was or he was not attracted to me. I’m not speaking physically here. There are many aspects of a person that attract me I.e, mannerisms, way of speaking, presence etc... that cannot be gauged on an online forum. And thus I found many dates to just be a waste of time. Just a piece of advice, do not spend too long speaking to someone online before meeting because chances are one of you will not be interested upon meeting. I had to go on many dates before I would find someone I would actually consider going on a second date with, and this caused burn out and frustration on many occasions.

 

Finally, I have found that due to a lack of connection outside of just one another, people tend to behave in a manner which they would not if you had mutual friends for example. I have had many men send me lewd messages, or just be plain rude if I didn’t show interest, or just ghost me on many occasions. I have seen some behaviour from people which caused me to question the decency of people. A little dramatic I know but it was quite disappointing to see how poorly some people can behave.

 

Again this is just my experience, but I have to say I most definitely enjoy dating more when meeting people organically.

[Batya33]

So because I met in person ASAP for a first meet it happened just as naturally and organically as if we first met at a party (i.e. if we didn't know anyone in common, etc) - and I was used to blind dates. We didn't go on a first date until after the first meet so by then how we met was a minor point if a point at all. I found in real life certain men made jerky comments if you met the person at a bar or a place where you didn't know anyone in common. Online was easier in that way -just click delete.

 

I lived in a major city teeming with singles. Quite often the people who I interacted with online were people I knew of -or at least mutual friends -in real life too. I love seeing photos of my friends' kids this time of year - several born into families where the couple originally met through an online site!

[katrina1980]

I am glad it worked for you Bat, it didn't for me. It doesn't for everyone and I think that's okay.

 

As has been said, there really is no right way or wrong way, it's whatever one feels comfortable with; yes I did meet my bf that way this time, but if we hadn't clicked in person as we did on line, I had planned to shut my profile down because I really just don't like it.

 

Rather meet men spontaneously, and let the attraction build with no expectations or anxiety which I personally felt when I met men on line. Worked better for me that way.

 

Again, glad it worked for you and that you enjoyed the process.

[tattoobunnie]

A remember dating this guy after this one crushing relationship, and while the rebound and I dated for 10 months, I totally uglied cried in front of him after two or three months about my ex, and pretty much dragged him through the mud of mixed reactions and tons of garbage.

 

I think if you still miss and love your ex, and cyber-stalking them, then you probably need to avoid dating like a plague.

 

Call up old friends; go visit them. Go visit ones that are far away. Take on a new hobby that you totally have been interested in, but know nothing about. The way you meet new people is to retrain your brain. Take different routes home or on your way to work. Invite friends to eat out at new places.

 

Online dating - I'm ancient, but had success with Match & Eharmony back then. And know 8 married couples with kids who met on Match. But these days, I hear it's like a buffet with tons of people lined up.

 

I think when you are really ready, you find each other. Right now you've got anyone alive blinders on; and maybe that's where you need to be. Millennials talk about Tinder for finding "friends", where is used to just be all about hook-ups, but hearing more and more of it used to meet people.

[Batya33]

I am glad it worked for you Bat, it didn't for me. It doesn't for everyone and I think that's okay.

 

As has been said, there really is no right way or wrong way, it's whatever one feels comfortable with; yes I did meet my bf that way this time, but if we hadn't clicked in person as we did on line, I had planned to shut my profile down because I really just don't like it.

 

Rather meet men spontaneously, and let the attraction build with no expectations or anxiety which I personally felt when I met men on line. Worked better for me that way.

 

Again, glad it worked for you and that you enjoyed the process.

 

Yes, and I found a way to have the spontaneity factor there despite the first contact being through an online site. And we differ in that I don't relate to typing and talking to a stranger as a way to ascertain chemistry. Certainly to see if there are things in common, if there is enough of a flow in conversation over the phone call to justify meeting in person for an hour but I never wanted to build up any expectations that the interactions before meeting were any sign of potential romantic chemistry. In fact I clicked beautifully with certain men over the emails we exchanged and poof that went up in a cloud of smoke as soon as we spoke by phone. And I was really good at ascertaining essential information over email -in fact to an extent it was part of my job.

 

And on a practical level spontaneity had its downsides because I wanted to know sooner rather than later what his background was (since I had certain religion-related criteria and education-related too as well as relationship goals) so as not to waste anyone's time. I met my husband spontaneously because we met at work but we couldn't get to know each other spontaneously because of the limitations of working for the same company (and never working together). He had an online profile after we broke up but because of a mistake he made on his profile (as to what languages he was fluent in) we'd have never met that way.

 

I didn't enjoy much of the process. Often it was a part time job and a means to an end. It was a job I became very skilled at - and people would comment on that lol (not the guys, my friends/ family). I would not have done it if I didn't want marriage and family. Nothing less would have been worth all that time, work, stress and aggravation (mostly because of flaky types who wasted my time). I think all the dating/social practice prepared me to be the right person to find the right person to an extent. And to an extent it made me appreciate so much more the qualities my husband had/has.

 

I think if someone cannot chooses to go with the sorts of reactions to expectations or anxious feelings such that it impedes types of dating then the choices are to avoid that type of dating or work on changing the reactions to those feelings/anxiety so that the reactions are manageable and don't get in the way. For me I chose to work on my fears that were associated with relationships and dating so that I could make sure I wasn't passing up opportunities for good matches. But the OP is not as concerned about meeting someone, let alone meeting someone with long term potential so that work might not be a priority for him or worth it at all.

 

I have fears that I have chosen not to work on because the work isn't worth it -I can avoid the things that trigger those fears. So I can relate to making the choice to avoid rather than confront. Dating is optional as are relationships. Choosing to limit one's dating pool or social opportunities is fine when the person limiting owns the responsibility and doesn't complain as a result about "no one good is out there". I had several limitations that raised eyebrows but being more flexible would have made no sense. The OP should consider that too.

[Tinydance]

I'm probably going to be the odd one out here, but I'm actually fairly against online dating now. I'm 33 now and I did OLD (very) on and off since I was eighteen. In that time I had never actually had a relationship with anyone at all basically, or even dated briefly. I had a casual thing with a guy twenty two years older than I who actually turned out to be a psycho. I'm a really social person and out of all the people I know, I only know maybe 2-3 people who found a relationship online. Most people I know have just been on dozens of failed online dates. I think occasionally you can get a relationship from there but statistically the chance is actually the lowest out of all the ways you could meet a partner (I've researched this).

 

I've had maybe about 5 long-term relationships and some shorter ones and all of those people I met in real life just as I was living life and doing the things I normally do. I think you can meet people just out of the blue anyway if you get out and about.

 

I think if you want to strategically try finding someone to date though, online dating is just too time consuming with not much success. The reason for that is while you can like what you see on the online profile (and they see on yours), it may not translate to real life. Also there are just too many flakes and time wasters and even people who just go on a date for an ego boost. My best friend went on a date with a few guys she wasn't even really attracted to in their online photos just because she wasn't finding many other options at that time. I think there is just too much time wasting as compared to most other ways to meet people.

 

I think there is more of a chance to find someone in a bar because at least you know if you find the person attractive or not and if you're getting a good vibe. All that can be skewed by alcohol and drugs in bars and night clubs though.

 

I would recommend doing all sorts of avenues in real life to meet people first and only do online dating occasionally when you have free time or someone's profile really stood out to you.

[Batya33]

I'm probably going to be the odd one out here, but I'm actually fairly against online dating now. I'm 33 now and I did OLD (very) on and off since I was eighteen. In that time I had never actually had a relationship with anyone at all basically, or even dated briefly. I had a casual thing with a guy twenty two years older than I who actually turned out to be a psycho. I'm a really social person and out of all the people I know, I only know maybe 2-3 people who found a relationship online. Most people I know have just been on dozens of failed online dates. I think occasionally you can get a relationship from there but statistically the chance is actually the lowest out of all the ways you could meet a partner (I've researched this).

 

I've had maybe about 5 long-term relationships and some shorter ones and all of those people I met in real life just as I was living life and doing the things I normally do. I think you can meet people just out of the blue anyway if you get out and about.

 

I think if you want to strategically try finding someone to date though, online dating is just too time consuming with not much success. The reason for that is while you can like what you see on the online profile (and they see on yours), it may not translate to real life. Also there are just too many flakes and time wasters and even people who just go on a date for an ego boost. My best friend went on a date with a few guys she wasn't even really attracted to in their online photos just because she wasn't finding many other options at that time. I think there is just too much time wasting as compared to most other ways to meet people.

 

I think there is more of a chance to find someone in a bar because at least you know if you find the person attractive or not and if you're getting a good vibe. All that can be skewed by alcohol and drugs in bars and night clubs though.

 

I would recommend doing all sorts of avenues in real life to meet people first and only do online dating occasionally when you have free time or someone's profile really stood out to you.

 

Yes, it doesn't work for everyone especially for people who want to date online or do a lot of typing/talking online even though for that person it triggers expectations and attachment, rather than meet in person ASAP. I went to many clubs and bars and given my short but specific list of "musts" in a potential spouse, bars and clubs were a needle in a haystack although fun for other purposes (I never got drunk, rarely drank, but loved to go out and dance!).

 

I know many people who met online originally and are happily married/coupled (one couple are heterosexual but domestic partners, not married, and have a son). The way I went about the process it was just like meeting in real life. I was engaged to a man I met through a print personal ad who was a good person and ultimately not for me and my sister met her ex husband through a personal ad (married 20 years). Like I wrote dating is optional and ways of meeting people are optional too so whatever floats your boat and whatever downsides and upsides you're willing to accept from each alternative available.

 

For example many say never date at work. It's how I met my husband originally.