3 Weeks of Silence from my Fiance

[itsallgrand]

I am very sorry. I agree with the others. It is time to grieve the loss of your dream to marry this man. You owe it to yourself, so that you can have a real chance of finding someone who wants to marry you.

 

Being headstrong isn't a purely negative trait- I am that way too. But it's to your benefit to realize when you are being stubborn and beating a dead horse. For something like marriage, don't you want someone who wants it without needing to be coexed into it?

[ThatwasThen]

UPDATE: I just went back and read my dating threads...ugggh...that was just as daunting if not more, no wonder I clung to my fiance...he was the one out of many.

If you think that a man that has not talked to you for three weeks now, who won't commit to a date to marry and who treats you like you are disposable is "the one" then I am of the opinion that YOU are the one with commitment issues. He won't commit to marriage so he is "safe" to you.

 

Tell us why you love him. There must be something good about him that keeps you there in this tormented state of rejection.

[PrincessBOT]

Wow! You're in complete denial. This guy has beaten down your self esteem and he's turned you from being a strong woman into an apologist for his terrible actions. I would say you're suffering from emotional abuse. The fighting and arguments are a way of controlling you. And you just make excuses for him. You knew something was wrong back in 2013.

 

Get away from this man. Cut him out of your life. And start building back up your own strong personality.

 

I am not in complete denial. I am am coming to a slow acceptance that we will probably not get married because once he got to truly know me he decided that we could not have a lasting marriage. That could be true, but it could also not be true, he refuses to take the leap as mentioned only focusing on worse case scenario as if marriage doesn't take continous work and committment.

[ThatwasThen]

I am not in complete denial. I am am coming to a slow acceptance that we will probably not get married because once he got to truly know me he decided that we could not have a lasting marriage. That could be true, but it could also not be true, he refuses to take the leap as mentioned only focusing on worse case scenario as if marriage doesn't take continous work and committment.

Your fiancé needs personal counselling. I suspect that his attitude is ingrained due to his own upbringing and how his parents related.

[PrincessBOT]

You do not have to reach out to him until you are ready. You've talked this relationship to death. He knows the consequences of his silence. Put stuff in a box that is his, ship it to him or have someone else give it to him and add a note saying "I understand your silence means it's over and at some point it would be good to talk things over so we can part amicably -I'll let you know when I'm ready to do that". Yes, in this case you get to dictate when you are ready. Good luck.

 

I really feel that way...talked the relationship to death. I don't think I will be ready anytime soon.

 

As far as ending it amicably. The last time 3 weeks ago, he called me asked to come over. He came over and was in a good mood. We talked for awhile and his last words to me were we are still going to get married while pulling me close to him. I said when and he did not answer. I told him he was dropping breadcrumbs and walked him to the door. He left, no effort whatsoever.

 

That was amicable enough for me for a long time. He has a pattern of taking a long time with things so my uneasiness is that on the one hand he may not try to contact me for awhile, but on the other hand he may reach out after some time. I still have hope that the time apart will make him truly assess if life apart is what he is willing to risk over his uncertainties. However, aside from that I accept his final act of inaction as the true answer despite him saying he wanted us to get married.

[abitbroken]

I am not in complete denial. I am am coming to a slow acceptance that we will probably not get married because once he got to truly know me he decided that we could not have a lasting marriage. That could be true, but it could also not be true, he refuses to take the leap as mentioned only focusing on worse case scenario as if marriage doesn't take continous work and committment.

 

There is a difference in marriage taking work because relatives die, jobs are lost and there are adjustments in life vs it being "hard work" just to get along on a basic level. If you can't get along on a basic level then you shouldn't be married because when something that is actually hard work comes along, you will be dead in the water.

 

it has nothing to do with your value or worth. Its not 'after getting to know you' he decided that he doesn't see a lasting marriage.

 

The situation is this -- its great to talk of marriage early as far as being clear what you want in life - not that you will marry that person, but letting the other person know you want kids/don't want kids, see yourself married or not. But actually looking at rings and talking about getting married to that person - some guys do that as a way to keep you. Its not always a part of any devious plot, but its a way to throw you breadcrumbs. Also, abusive men move to fast and so do commitmentphobes - they come on too strong and fast.

 

because he talked about engagement and marriage early - you clung on to that and ignored all the bad behavior because your eye was on the prize, so to speak.

 

A man who WANTS to get married for real will not talk of engagement rings when first dating. He will make sure you are someone who also wants what he wants and then he'll be quiet about engagements. He will try to get to know you as much as he can and let some time go by for that to happen and then he will decide to make you his wife. He might start softballing the idea to you to make sure he won't be turned down when he proposes, but he is not going to rush the ring in the first few months. He won't wait years either on the other hand.

 

You can't fit a square peg in a round hole and this is what you are doing - you are treating it as marriage or bust -- when you should have said NEXT if you were serious about marriage.

[ThatwasThen]

I really feel that way...talked the relationship to death. I don't think I will be ready anytime soon.

 

As far as ending it amicably. The last time 3 weeks ago, he called me asked to come over. He came over and was in a good mood. We talked for awhile and his last words to me were we are still going to get married while pulling me close to him. I said when and he did not answer. I told him he was dropping breadcrumbs and walked him to the door. He left, no effort whatsoever.

 

That was amicable enough for me for a long time. He has a pattern of taking a long time with things so my uneasiness is that on the one hand he may not try to contact me for awhile, but on the other hand he may reach out after some time. I still have hope that the time apart will make him truly assess if life apart is what he is willing to risk over his uncertainties. However, aside from that I accept his final act of inaction as the true answer despite him saying he wanted us to get married.

Once again instead of taking the matter into your hands, taking back your personal power from him... you are giving him all the control. You break up with him and stop giving him the power. He's not a good prospect for a life partner. He will torment you like he is now only it will be 10 times worse because you are the type that will feel trapped and therefore will do nothing to untrap yourself from is manipulation, immature petulance and control... he's conditioned you to enable his isms.

[PrincessBOT]

If you think that a man that has not talked to you for three weeks now, who won't commit to a date to marry and who treats you like you are disposable is "the one" then I am of the opinion that YOU are the one with commitment issues. He won't commit to marriage so he is "safe" to you.

 

Tell us why you love him. There must be something good about him that keeps you there in this tormented state of rejection.

 

 

 

I stayed in the slow moving state toward marriage in prayers and hope getting past it to be able to move on with our lives. It was a good relationship. I have seen the string along relationships, but I have also seen the relationships where though the guy dragged his feet, patience, working through the reasons and that extra push has turned into happy marriages. I felt with my fiance it could be the latter because he has always said he wanted to marry me. That was actually the last thing he said to me 3 weeks ago, but I need more now, I need a date, my patience is gone because I started thinking it was the other one where it just will not happen and I was wasting my time. Also, I started to question my reason for pushing if he really did not want to even though he did not want to lose me as he said. He also does not want to risk divorce.

 

A little background my fiance in his former work counselled married couples so he has seen marriages and marriage issues up front and personal. Things that couples would not ever reveal but go through. I get the feeling this has affected him made everything aboout avoiding divorce as if marriage is not a continous commitment and work. I don't have it in me anymore to try to get past it.

 

For the reaons I love him. There are many mostly personal, but among them.

 

 

I love him because from day one to the last we could talk for hours on end about everything. When we are together we rarely have interruptions like watching tv or even music we just talk for 5 years. Even now I know what all his hang ups are about marriage, he just can't get past them and too much time is passing for me which caused the issues.

 

I love him because after 5 years he still rushes to open my doors. When we started dating I was not use to that.

 

I love him because he loves me. He told me he loved me without hesitation. After being single for 5 years it took me almost a year to adjust and fall in love. He was patient and never acted out.

 

I love him because he did go to marriage counseling making it a priority for 7 months. My individual counselor kept raving about his willingness as so many men will not even consider it. She saw that as him being genuine and his commitment to us.

 

I love him because he has world view on things. He speaks multiple languages and has travelled a lot like I have.

 

I love him because he can comfort me and I can comfort him.

 

I love him because I didn't want to be with anyone but him, even when mad at him I would prefer to be in the other room than away.

 

I love him because he is really slow to anger. He is just plain slow with most things. I love him because he has taught me to take the time to think before I act or speak. Many times I talked or did things and later thought different or wish I had not done something. What he showed me helped me make better decision before talking or acting.

 

I love him because patience was not a virtue for me. Before I met him I prayed to Jesus to please help me with patience in relationships with my family and friends. Well my relationship with him taught me patience.

 

I loves him because we can pray together.

 

I love him because he will give his all to anyone in need.

 

I love him because he never hesitates to give me his phone computer or anything else to use when I need to. Having been cheated on in another relationship, having a man that does that is precious to me.

 

I love him because he cooks for me when in the mornings if I stay by him and evenings when I go to his place after work.

 

I love him because we planned our future together.

 

I love him because he forgives easy.

At least he does for me.

 

I love how great he is with children.

 

I love our travel memories and the the future places we planned to visit.

 

I love his intelligence

 

I love us together.

[ThatwasThen]

What are you going to do, Princess? After five years you still don't even live together. He's not advanced the relationship past constant companions.

 

*I give you credit for being able to articulate why you love him. Not many that have come here have been able to do so well.*

[PrincessBOT]

What are you going to do, Princess? After five years you still don't even live together. He's not advanced the relationship past constant companions.

 

*I give you credit for being able to articulate why you love him. Not many that have come here have been able to do so well.*

 

The decision not to live together was mine for religious reasons. That was actually a big hangup to us getting engaged. (At this point you may be seeing things a little different).

I will not live together before marriage. However, we spent a lot of time together and I engrossed him in my life and my family's life. We saw each other in every way, season, issue from life to death and all in between. Maybe agreeing to live with him would have helped, but maybe not then it would have just been harder unwinding our lives.

 

What I going to do this time is absolutely nothing. This will be the first time I have done that. Nothing. I will live my life and start filling in where the relationship was because this is actually the best way it could have ended for me if it had to end. If he contacts me I plan to just listen. That is how far I have thought after getting some great input on here. I have not thought past that.

[ThatwasThen]

Don't wait too long. All the while you do that, he has complete control over you, and your thoughts.

 

I wish you the strength to leave him. You love him but that fact has very little to do with why you should stay in his life.

I fear that even if he comes to you with a date in another week and you actually marry, you will be in a struggle with him your entire married life. I hope I'm wrong.

[PrincessBOT]

There is a difference in marriage taking work because relatives die, jobs are lost and there are adjustments in life vs it being "hard work" just to get along on a basic level. If you can't get along on a basic level then you shouldn't be married because when something that is actually hard work comes along, you will be dead in the water.

 

it has nothing to do with your value or worth. Its not 'after getting to know you' he decided that he doesn't see a lasting marriage.

 

The situation is this -- its great to talk of marriage early as far as being clear what you want in life - not that you will marry that person, but letting the other person know you want kids/don't want kids, see yourself married or not. But actually looking at rings and talking about getting married to that person - some guys do that as a way to keep you. Its not always a part of any devious plot, but its a way to throw you breadcrumbs. Also, abusive men move to fast and so do commitmentphobes - they come on too strong and fast.

 

because he talked about engagement and marriage early - you clung on to that and ignored all the bad behavior because your eye was on the prize, so to speak.

 

A man who WANTS to get married for real will not talk of engagement rings when first dating. He will make sure you are someone who also wants what he wants and then he'll be quiet about engagements. He will try to get to know you as much as he can and let some time go by for that to happen and then he will decide to make you his wife. He might start softballing the idea to you to make sure he won't be turned down when he proposes, but he is not going to rush the ring in the first few months. He won't wait years either on the other hand.

 

You can't fit a square peg in a round hole and this is what you are doing - you are treating it as marriage or bust -- when you should have said NEXT if you were serious about marriage.

 

Good points.

 

I appreciate the insight. Because it was said in the beginning does not mean it will happen. I have stop clinging to that at this point because I find that my trust in him was deminished, my energy is deminished and emotional state exhausted.

 

3 weeks...my God who does that with something so important.

 

We did get along. I would not want to marry someone I did not get along with.

 

About the early on talks. I was with my friend the night she met her husband. He talked marriage within 2 months they were moved in within 4 months by which time he'd discussed what kind of ring she wanted. By the time they moved in he had the ring and 5 months later they were married. A big factor, they had both been married before.

 

Another friend met his wife online talked about marriage within 3 months and engaged by 5 months. A big factor they were caught up in the love aspect and did not really take enough time to discuss being married... like he never wanted kids...they divorced 2 years later, he was remarried the next year to a woman who had a kid already and apparently doesn't want more.

 

So I agree men who want to get married get married, though some also need some pressure, a man talking about marriage early on was not an automatic red flag to me. The men who avoided the subject were the red flags to me.

[PrincessBOT]

Don't wait too long. All the while you do that, he has complete control over you, and your thoughts.

 

I wish you the strength to leave him. You love him but that fact has very little to do with why you should stay in his life.

I fear that even if he comes to you with a date in another week and you actually marry, you will be in a struggle with him your entire married life. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Thanks.

 

Either way he has control over my thoughts. I think this way, doing nothing, gives me time get to acceptance so I can deal with things if they offiically end. When I think about it, it will also forces him to face the decision be makes/made without any buffer from me.

 

In a way I am also going out with my dignity becaue I have been the one having to contact him first. I had no issue with it because pride was not an issue for me in love because I knew he saw it in an endearing way. Like he would be the first to apologize I saw it in an endearing way. However, my last stand so to speak will be one of pride and dignity. Yes, I love you, but you can"t treat me this way. I don't need you if you don't need me.

 

At least that is how I feel now and the last three week....it's been hard. I just focus on getting through the day one day at a time. So I leave him more each day...it's sad. Sigh.

[abitbroken]

I am glad you didn't move in with him because it would be even harder for you living with someone who won't marry.

We didn't move in together and are better for it now.

 

I stayed in the slow moving state toward marriage in prayers and hope getting past it to be able to move on with our lives. It was a good relationship. I have seen the string along relationships, but I have also seen the relationships where though the guy dragged his feet, patience, working through the reasons and that extra push has turned into happy marriages. I felt with my fiance it could be the latter because he has always said he wanted to marry me. That was actually the last thing he said to me 3 weeks ago, but I need more now, I need a date, my patience is gone because I started thinking it was the other one where it just will not happen and I was wasting my time. Also, I started to question my reason for pushing if he really did not want to even though he did not want to lose me as he said. He also does not want to risk divorce.

 

A little background my fiance in his former work counselled married couples so he has seen marriages and marriage issues up front and personal. Things that couples would not ever reveal but go through. I get the feeling this has affected him made everything aboout avoiding divorce as if marriage is not a continous commitment and work. I don't have it in me anymore to try to get past it.

 

For the reaons I love him. There are many mostly personal, but among them.

 

 

I love him because from day one to the last we could talk for hours on end about everything. When we are together we rarely have interruptions like watching tv or even music we just talk for 5 years. Even now I know what all his hang ups are about marriage, he just can't get past them and too much time is passing for me which caused the issues.

 

I love him because after 5 years he still rushes to open my doors. When we started dating I was not use to that.

 

I love him because he loves me. He told me he loved me without hesitation. After being single for 5 years it took me almost a year to adjust and fall in love. He was patient and never acted out.

 

I love him because he did go to marriage counseling making it a priority for 7 months. My individual counselor kept raving about his willingness as so many men will not even consider it. She saw that as him being genuine and his commitment to us.

 

I love him because he has world view on things. He speaks multiple languages and has travelled a lot like I have.

 

I love him because he can comfort me and I can comfort him.

 

I love him because I didn't want to be with anyone but him, even when mad at him I would prefer to be in the other room than away.

 

I love him because he is really slow to anger. He is just plain slow with most things. I love him because he has taught me to take the time to think before I act or speak. Many times I talked or did things and later thought different or wish I had not done something. What he showed me helped me make better decision before talking or acting.

 

I love him because patience was not a virtue for me. Before I met him I prayed to Jesus to please help me with patience in relationships with my family and friends. Well my relationship with him taught me patience.

 

I loves him because we can pray together.

 

I love him because he will give his all to anyone in need.

 

I love him because he never hesitates to give me his phone computer or anything else to use when I need to. Having been cheated on in another relationship, having a man that does that is precious to me.

 

I love him because he cooks for me when in the mornings if I stay by him and evenings when I go to his place after work.

 

I love him because we planned our future together.

 

I love him because he forgives easy.

At least he does for me.

 

I love how great he is with children.

 

I love our travel memories and the the future places we planned to visit.

 

I love his intelligence

 

I love us together.

 

He doesn't get the door for you because he has ignored you for 3 weeks.

 

You don't "talk on end" because he has not called.

 

He does not cook for you - because he has not seen you in over 60+ meals

 

Other men are intelligent and caring.

Is he being caring by disappearing on you?

If he doesn't want to be with you - is he really a man for not telling you straight up?

 

What if you had kids -- how would you feel if he just dropped out of sight?

Other men are good with children. he is not the only one. But being good with kids and wanting them are two different things.

 

Just because you prayed for patience, doesn't mean that this relationship is teaching you it anymore. It may have at one time, but now it is not a matter of being patient, but caring for yourself and being smart.Okay, you understand patience, now move on.

 

You did not plan your future together because there is no wedding date.

 

Travel memories are memories and not a reason to stay with someone.

 

it is a string along relationship if the two of you got engaged with no date in sight. You guys aren't 19 year old kids.

 

Stop pushing for a date - give back the ring.

[itsallgrand]

I don't think anyone pressuring for marriage is ever an ok thing. It's actually quite selfish and disrespectful. It's not respecting the other persons volition and voice. It's saying "what I want is more important than what you want".

Instead of pressure, a person can decide not to stay with someone who does not have compatible goals/want the same thing as them.

 

So yeah, I see it a little differently than him simply jerking you around. I think there is probably a dynamic where you push and pressure him in certain directions, he resists, you ignore what he is showing you and keep pushing him and won't just let him be. When you leave him be, he's happy to be gf and bf who don't live together, won't get married, and see each other when you feel like it. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that - except it's not what YOU want and not compatible with you.

 

And no, living separately is not the same as the experience of living together as a committed couple. You know it too, otherwise why would it matter if you were married or not to do it. It changes things. Like marriage or having children does - it just does.

I'm not saying living together would have helped - I doubt it would have, because you plain as day desperately want marriage, and he plain as day is trying to avoid it ( does NOT want).

 

You aren't compatible. For all the words. You can't talk out incompatibility.

[Batya33]

On the living together thing -I don't think it's necessary to live together before marriage and you should stick to your values - no reason to be pressured into living together before marriage. But I agree with Itsallgrand -no one should have to convince another person -or pressure! -another person to get married! And I also agree that people who live together and are committed to each other and choose not to marry (as a couple-both do not want marriage) are far more committed than a couple who call themselves engaged but no wedding date is set for years while one person pressures the other -that's not commitment -that's two people who want different things and one is using a label of "engaged" to be dishonest with herself about what's really going on. I'm glad you're moving on.

[PrincessBOT]

I don't think anyone pressuring for marriage is ever an ok thing. It's actually quite selfish and disrespectful. It's not respecting the other persons volition and voice. It's saying "what I want is more important than what you want".

Instead of pressure, a person can decide not to stay with someone who does not have compatible goals/want the same thing as them.

 

So yeah, I see it a little differently than him simply jerking you around. I think there is probably a dynamic where you push and pressure him in certain directions, he resists, you ignore what he is showing you and keep pushing him and won't just let him be. When you leave him be, he's happy to be gf and bf who don't live together, won't get married, and see each other when you feel like it. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that - except it's not what YOU want and not compatible with you.

 

And no, living separately is not the same as the experience of living together as a committed couple. You know it too, otherwise why would it matter if you were married or not to do it. It changes things. Like marriage or having children does - it just does.

I'm not saying living together would have helped - I doubt it would have, because you plain as day desperately want marriage, and he plain as day is trying to avoid it ( does NOT want).

 

You aren't compatible. For all the words. You can't talk out incompatibility.

 

If someone has a fear of heights, but really want to accept a job in a country overseas they they may need to pushed to confront their fears and reservations about avoiding flying instead of declining a job they really want.

If they are able to address their fears they can take that job they wanted. It did not mean they did not want the job and all it entailed.

 

Since he has always told me he wanted to marry me that scenario above is similar to how I saw it with my fiance. Someone said it here it could be something he needs individual counselling to address the fear of divorce. That fear stops him from marrying the person he wants. He is not the type of person to consistently say something he did not mean, 5 years and I've seen how he is.

 

In the end it does not matter only that right now matters because as you said in the end he is avoiding it and that makes us incompatible now which would make this the end...or does it.

 

I have a long time best friend that was in the same situation (she also kept at it with him). She resigned herself to accepting the relationship without marriage though she really wanted to and her then boyfriend would not. After 4 years he proposed. They have been in a good marriage for 4 years. In that in between time they were not compatible, but now they are.

 

Your thoughts on that would be much appreciated because it's the gray area that keeps that tiny bit of hope alive.

[PrincessBOT]

The last time we did not speak for 3 weeks he did not consider the relationship over. I contacted him and he gave the same oh he was going to call. This is common when we have issues. As much as it bothers me I do not plan to contact him now or 6 months from now or more. Doing nothing is all I have left. Doing nothing is my action because it has always been something I could not do.

 

By doing nothing I can't be strung along and he can't see me as still being there during his indecisiveness and continous barriers. Me not being present lets him know without a doubt what his action means...that it is ending an "engagement" and there is no going backward to just boyfiend and girlfriend.

 

 

The more time that passes the more time I get to allow reality to set in. Doing nothing is a dual purpose allowing me to gradually detach and forcing him to commit to his decision without me as a buffer.

 

So yes I still have a glimmer of hope right now as we had a true relationship and it was not all bad and a future was possible. However, for the first time I am really taking steps to end this. Today I also realized that me coming to ENA for support is also a part of that.

[Batya33]

Your standards are really concerning. "not all bad" and "did not consider the relationship over"?? Is that all you want for yourself? You were not really engaged and being "boyfriend and girlfriend" would not have been going backwards -in fact it would reflect progress because what you had was a sham "engagement" and he wasn't committed to you. Boyfriends and girlfriends are committed to only dating each other and typically see potential for the long term whether or not they marry. He saw little potential for the long term and told you so and showed you so numerous times.

 

Please stop settling.

[boltnrun]

Just because someone else went through something similar and ended up getting married doesn't guarantee you will end up the same way.

 

I know of two different couples who went through this. For one couple, the man stated clearly and firmly that he would never get married. After five years, he ended up proposing because he realized he did love this woman and wanted to be married to her. The other couple, the man said over and over that they WOULD get married, but he needed a better job first, then he needed to settle into the better job, then they needed to have X amount of dollars saved up, then they needed X more dollars saved up (any of this sound familiar??). The woman in that couple finally realized he'd find one excuse after another not to get married. She made the tough decision to leave him. And two years later she was married to someone else and a year after that had a lovely baby girl. If she'd waited around hoping it would end up like Couple #1, she'd still be waiting because that man STILL isn't married to anyone.

 

The man in the couple you cited obviously feels differently than the man you've been involved with.

[abitbroken]

As far as the fear of heights -- there is no comparison between a phobia and not wanting to make a lifelong commitment. Some people who assume are 'scared' - just simply don't want to do something.

 

You keep talking about what he wants - but what do you want --- do you still want kids, etc?

 

Me not being present lets him know without a doubt what his action means.

 

You are wrong there. Its not like you left him to prove a point. Its not like you were supposed to go to an event with him and don't show on purpise. There is no consequence to his action of leaving for three weeks because you will be there when he returns as you always are ---- if he disappears for three weeks, maybe its his way of getting the constant noise of "when are we getting married?" to stop perhaps. But who knows. He could have another woman or another life or he could go and gamble for three weeks.

 

 

About the early on talks. I was with my friend the night she met her husband. He talked marriage within 2 months they were moved in within 4 months by which time he'd discussed what kind of ring she wanted. By the time they moved in he had the ring and 5 months later they were married. A big factor, they had both been married before.

 

A dear friend who is like an uncle to my guy met his wife in 1965. They got married within 6 months of meeting. No one thought they would last. They celebrated 50 years weeks before she died. They had really nothing but two suitcases and two cups and a fork when they got married. I can look at that as a great love story and proof that marrying quickly is the right thing. But what i am omitting is the story of other couples they knew that did the same thing and divorced quickly or had miserable marriages.

 

My grandparents were wartime sweethearts and celebrated 67 years of marriage. But i am ommitting the story of my grandmother's friend who also married quickly and her husband disappeared. Didn't die = just up and left one day. They really barely knew eachother and it was too much.

 

Do you know why they lasted -- communication, love, devotion, mutual values, families that meshed with eachother -- this man does not share those with you - or only on the surface. If he was all about communication and devotion he would not have left you in the lurch. He is not even decent enough to dump you fair and square.

 

 

So --- you keep saying you are going to put an end to this -- how are you going to do that?

[ThatwasThen]

Op: You've heard it all by now. Its understood that people need to do things in their own way and in their own time. Keep us posted if there are any new developments in your situation with this man. You waiting is what you're going to do. All I'll say further is do yourself a favor and get yourself into therapy which will help you to come to terms with his emotionally abusive treatment of you.

[abitbroken]

Op: You've heard it all by now. Its understood that people need to do things in their own way and in their own time. Keep us posted if there are any new developments in your situation with this man. You waiting is what you're going to do. All I'll say further is do yourself a favor and get yourself into therapy which will help you to come to terms with his emotionally abusive treatment of you.

 

I agree. She sounds like a 22 year old woman vs the 40/41 year old woman i think she is at this point.

[PrincessBOT]

On the living together thing -I don't think it's necessary to live together before marriage and you should stick to your values - no reason to be pressured into living together before marriage. But I agree with Itsallgrand -no one should have to convince another person -or pressure! -another person to get married! And I also agree that people who live together and are committed to each other and choose not to marry (as a couple-both do not want marriage) are far more committed than a couple who call themselves engaged but no wedding date is set for years while one person pressures the other -that's not commitment -that's two people who want different things and one is using a label of "engaged" to be dishonest with herself about what's really going on. I'm glad you're moving on.

 

As far as the fear of heights -- there is no comparison between a phobia and not wanting to make a lifelong commitment. Some people who assume are 'scared' - just simply don't want to do something.

 

You keep talking about what he wants - but what do you want --- do you still want kids, etc?

 

Me not being present lets him know without a doubt what his action means.

 

You are wrong there. Its not like you left him to prove a point. Its not like you were supposed to go to an event with him and don't show on purpise. There is no consequence to his action of leaving for three weeks because you will be there when he returns as you always are ---- if he disappears for three weeks, maybe its his way of getting the constant noise of "when are we getting married?" to stop perhaps. But who knows. He could have another woman or another life or he could go and gamble for three weeks.

 

 

About the early on talks. I was with my friend the night she met her husband. He talked marriage within 2 months they were moved in within 4 months by which time he'd discussed what kind of ring she wanted. By the time they moved in he had the ring and 5 months later they were married. A big factor, they had both been married before.

 

A dear friend who is like an uncle to my guy met his wife in 1965. They got married within 6 months of meeting. No one thought they would last. They celebrated 50 years weeks before she died. They had really nothing but two suitcases and two cups and a fork when they got married. I can look at that as a great love story and proof that marrying quickly is the right thing. But what i am omitting is the story of other couples they knew that did the same thing and divorced quickly or had miserable marriages.

 

My grandparents were wartime sweethearts and celebrated 67 years of marriage. But i am ommitting the story of my grandmother's friend who also married quickly and her husband disappeared. Didn't die = just up and left one day. They really barely knew eachother and it was too much.

 

Do you know why they lasted -- communication, love, devotion, mutual values, families that meshed with eachother -- this man does not share those with you - or only on the surface. If he was all about communication and devotion he would not have left you in the lurch. He is not even decent enough to dump you fair and square.

 

 

So --- you keep saying you are going to put an end to this -- how are you going to do that?

 

Op: You've heard it all by now. Its understood that people need to do things in their own way and in their own time. Keep us posted if there are any new developments in your situation with this man. You waiting is what you're going to do. All I'll say further is do yourself a favor and get yourself into therapy which will help you to come to terms with his emotionally abusive treatment of you.

 

I agree. She sounds like a 22 year old woman vs the 40/41 year old woman i think she is at this point.

 

Wow, so true. Thank you so much. I have some thinking to do. When I am ready I will know. I will post with any updates.

 

Except the 22 year old part. Matters of the heart are not as black and white. My actions now include my life experience from being 22 and not fully underatanding the value of relationships.

[PrincessBOT]

Your standards are really concerning. "not all bad" and "did not consider the relationship over"?? Is that all you want for yourself? You were not really engaged and being "boyfriend and girlfriend" would not have been going backwards -in fact it would reflect progress because what you had was a sham "engagement" and he wasn't committed to you. Boyfriends and girlfriends are committed to only dating each other and typically see potential for the long term whether or not they marry. He saw little potential for the long term and told you so and showed you so numerous times.

 

Please stop settling.

 

Just because someone else went through something similar and ended up getting married doesn't guarantee you will end up the same way.

 

I know of two different couples who went through this. For one couple, the man stated clearly and firmly that he would never get married. After five years, he ended up proposing because he realized he did love this woman and wanted to be married to her. The other couple, the man said over and over that they WOULD get married, but he needed a better job first, then he needed to settle into the better job, then they needed to have X amount of dollars saved up, then they needed X more dollars saved up (any of this sound familiar??). The woman in that couple finally realized he'd find one excuse after another not to get married. She made the tough decision to leave him. And two years later she was married to someone else and a year after that had a lovely baby girl. If she'd waited around hoping it would end up like Couple #1, she'd still be waiting because that man STILL isn't married to anyone.

 

The man in the couple you cited obviously feels differently than the man you've been involved with.

 

Yes, yes all so true. It is tough when it is you and having been with that person. We experienced love and caring and it met my standards, though not my ultimate standard of marriage.

 

I could be that one that does not get married in this situation, but I could also be the one that does. No one has looked at it from that point of view, only the he will never marry me. I will take the great info here couple it with the intricacies of our relationship and what I know of him and move forward. Right now that is leaning toward doing nothing and letting him come to his own decision. If it is his decison he goes with it (set a date or confirm the end, after 5 years and still being in the relationship crap or get off the pot). He will be forced to now, unless I get to my final point and choose to offically end everything forever.

 

Thanks so much. I will post with any updates.