How come I can't magnify the good?

[tiredofvampires]

I think it depends how long and how serious the relationship was. This one was relatively short.

 

I don't think length of relationship is that relevant. Some people tie the knot and stay married for a lifetime, after 3 months of dating or less. Some people you know casually for a 40 years and others, you feel like you have known your whole life after a week.

 

And pain is pain. If he was abandoned as a child, which Naomi of all people would understand, and he was more in love with her than she was with him, his pain could be as bad as any pain of loss in a relationship of any duration.

 

On a completely separate note -- I wonder what would happen if suddenly, he decided this wasn't worth it and told Naomi, "Fine, I'm done with this, too." And stopped texting and just disappeared. I wonder how Naomi would react. With great relief? Hmmm.

[IAmFCA]

This is a discussion wherein we may all agree, because when a separation occurs in an orderly way, we would likely all find common ground about the process.

 

The challenge here is that these two have a history of disorder, and in the dissolution, Naomi was not completely honest. Her words suggested there were incompatibilities that might be resolved, had they time to resolve them. So now, it seems they have time; he might well wonder, When do we start resolving them?

 

She needs to do a better job of ending things, so that she is clear that she has no interest in trying to resolve their differences. And to say this in a kind way and a concise way, and in a way that puts the weighton herself, that avoids labeling either one of them.wrong.

 

This is difficult. It brings together emotional stability, mental.clarity, communication skills, and a certain amount of kindness and discipline. It requires an absence of ego. It requires a peace such that she needs nothing, and is only correcting herself in service to each of them and to the ideals of fairness and justice.

 

I am not sure this is possible while their emotions run so high. It might be better by email, which gives them time to choose their words, and to stick to their intended purpose without reacting in the moment.

[Batya33]

I don't think length of relationship is that relevant. Some people tie the knot and stay married for a lifetime, after 3 months of dating or less. Some people you know casually for a 40 years and others, you feel like you have known your whole life after a week.

 

And pain is pain. If he was abandoned as a child, which Naomi of all people would understand, and he was more in love with her than she was with him, his pain could be as bad as any pain of loss in a relationship of any duration.

 

On a completely separate note -- I wonder what would happen if suddenly, he decided this wasn't worth it and told Naomi, "Fine, I'm done with this, too." And stopped texting and just disappeared. I wonder how Naomi would react. With great relief? Hmmm.

She's not responsible for treating him differently because of his childhood - he chose to date her and with dating comes the risk that it won't work out. I could not disagree more that we have the same obligation in a 3 month dating relationship as in a long term one. Sure if she'd agreed at the outset as a condition of dating him that if things didn't work out she promised to meet with him in person and share with him why - then yes she should keep her promises. It's rough out there when it comes to dating and we owe all people we interact with not to intentionally cause pain physical or emotional - certainly not to abuse or try to ruin their lives but adults are responsible for their own feelings and closure and if she would rather end it by email or treat the break up as an ending that seems fine to me. To equate a short dating relationship ending with a long term one or a marriage makes no sense to me - I'm sure there are rare exceptions. I don't think this is one of them.

[Naomi99]

Let me ask you this: what skin is it off your ass to tell him the specifics?

 

What are you gaining by keeping him mystified?

 

1. There is no mystery about what happened, so I'm not trying to keep him mystified. I'm protecting my boundaries and my space.

2. He says he has questions to ask me, and I have zero desire to be put through the Spanish Inquisition.

 

I'm losing my time, my patience, my energy, opening up old wounds by seeing his face or hearing his voice. I have the potential to lose my cool or maybe I'll be overcome with passion and he'll seduce me and we will be back at square one.

[Naomi99]

On a completely separate note -- I wonder what would happen if suddenly, he decided this wasn't worth it and told Naomi, "Fine, I'm done with this, too." And stopped texting and just disappeared. I wonder how Naomi would react. With great relief? Hmmm.

 

I would be happy that he's moved on, but sad; for there would be no more fuel for keeping this thread alive.

[Ms Darcy]

This. How many times have we read posts on here where we've all chanted "NO CONTACT," yet why is Trip Guy the exception and gets to have his hand held through this? Everyoen else in the world is dealing with a painful breakup so why can't he?

 

Naomi, you know I love you but this is so disingenuous. YOU have not chanted NO CONTACT. If you even sort of believed in no contact, you would have blocked him to prevent seeing his messages and resist the temptation to respond to him.

 

I mean, I'm not hatin' on you. This post-break up analysis paralysis has created 10 more pages of very entertaining mental running in place.

 

Post advice is just poster advice. You are strong enough not to rule your life by committee. If you ruled by committee, you never would have dumped him in the first place.

[tiredofvampires]

1. There is no mystery about what happened, so I'm not trying to keep him mystified. I'm protecting my boundaries and my space.

2. He says he has questions to ask me, and I have zero desire to be put through the Spanish Inquisition.

 

I'm losing my time, my patience, my energy, opening up old wounds by seeing his face or hearing his voice. I have the potential to lose my cool or maybe I'll be overcome with passion and he'll seduce me and we will be back at square one.

 

Well, the energy and time you are spending ruminating endlessly on this seems like quite a lot more trouble and pain than just sitting down at a table somewhere in public (so he won't seduce you) and saying:

 

1. You can ask whatever you want, as long as it's not about my current life, post-break-up and my love life

2. This is just about what happened in our relationship, and why we are broken up

3. There is no chance we will get back together, so consider this for closure, not for negotiation; say, you do not want to hear justifications or rationalizations for what he's done, or him trying to explain why he is the way he is; it's just him becoming informed and listening and taking mental notes when you answer questions

 

And then just answer what he asks matter-of-factly. If you don't think you can do this without blowing your stack, insulting him, yelling, or otherwise being mean to him, ask him to ask you the questions in an email and number them instead. Maybe that is safer, since you don't have the conversational skills, as you admit yourself, to guarantee that you can pull this off. And that means you probably need to work on that skillset for future relationships, because communication is an art and no matter who you are with, expressing displeasure needs to be done with care.

 

On a completely side note, look into Mindfulness Meditation classes and workshops. I think that would really help you train your mind and help you become more aware in the moment, as opposed to reactive.

 

I guess I just don't see how what you're doing here is less blood-letting than the Spanish Inquisition. I feel empathetically drained just reading your posts. How much more draining can a discussion WITH EXPLICIT BOUNDARIES STATED be? I don't see it, and I don't see how you telling him that you don't like his disregard of your space, his "your stuff is my stuff", his cheapness, his not being socialized in the way that you find acceptable because he did x, y, and z, and listing a number of choice examples from these threads, is you giving up your power or boundaries.

 

You are opening wounds up all the time right here. And we are not the ones to complete this relationship with. HE is. I see this as you dragging things out when you could actually cauterize the wound and be more done with it. This is a LOT messier, what you are doing to him and yourself.

 

Giving someone information that will help them more than it will hurt you is NOT a boundary violation in my opinion. In fact, the more charged this is for you, the more it's going to keep vampiring you, and him.

 

Let the poor man have his answers already, and release yourself from this cycle. (I imagine East4 is getting out the barf bag...)

 

I guess I just see it very differently. I don't think giving someone answers hurts me -- it helps me if it ENDS THE DRAMA. How does it protect my boundary to tell him "I told you time and again not to stick your fingers in my food, but you kept doing it; same for lying with street clothes on my bed; and we threw a party and you didn't contribute, and I find that cheap; you just are not a gentleman in my books, and even though you have a loving side that I appreciated, it's the whole package I needed, and it wasn't there." No, that is a relief for me to finally spit out, not a boundary violation. So I'm different. Then again, I think I could say this without yelling or becoming belittling, so that's the key. And again, I don't think if you have a trigger finger, you should do it in person, but it should be as specific as possible on email, to give him that much.

 

And I personally hate the phone, it is equally triggering as talking in person, but without the help of eye contact. So I would not do it that way.

 

There is absolutely no way you need to worry about being seduced if you are out in public or on email.

 

The anger and the sexual door that doesn't seem to be solidly shut in your mind are subjects that you should be contemplating.

[Naomi99]

This is difficult. It brings together emotional stability, mental.clarity, communication skills, and a certain amount of kindness and discipline. It requires an absence of ego. It requires a peace such that she needs nothing, and is only correcting herself in service to each of them and to the ideals of fairness and justice.

 

None of those qualities I possess at the moment.

 

He just texted me requesting to meet sooner than saturday and I don't know why, but that set my blood boiling. I didn't respond because I just can't be nice right now.

 

I'm tempted to say "No thank you, I barely want to meet you on Saturday."

[Naomi99]

what I was positing is that sometimes, when we see the mirror of our weakest version of ourselves in another person, it's repulsive. Naomi is repulsed by things about him that are just repulsive because she would never want to behave like that. Like she rightly finds it distasteful to take people's possessions without asking. But seeing a person be desperate, willing to give up parts of themselves or what they need in order to get love or care -- has she not seen this in herself, when she sees this man's desperation? Those things, I'm saying may be a mirror and therefore contemptible.

 

The things Trip-guy's doing to me are the things we all wished we could do to an ex…rapid-fire text, rambling messages and nonsensical emails that haven't even been proofread, begging for one more meeting, acting 100 percent out of pure emotion, throwing tantrums. Because it's easy to do that. I'd love to see the doctor's face if I had behaved like that when he told me he didn't want a serious relationship. But I didn't behave that way because, as cold as he was, I still respected him and his boundaries, which leads me to maybe trip-guy doesn't respect me.

 

I'd love to stick my finger in someone's big gooey cake or just let my friends always foot the bill or swipe fruit from someone's house. But I don't because I know there are consequences to behaving like that.

[tiredofvampires]

Hmm, wonder what you thought of post #318.

 

I see you venting a lot, but I'm not sure you're really digging into the emotion of anger here.

 

What about your ex-boyfriend doing the things (things that are not malicious, and which in cases, you'd agree, would be non-issues to others) you wouldn't do makes you livid with RAGE?

 

You are angry. We know THAT you are angry.

 

WHY are you angry? This angry?

 

Someone is sad that you've left them.

 

Someone is sad that you've left them, so sad they are chasing after you -- and that makes you livid. WHY?

[tiredofvampires]

And throwing tantrums is not on a par with sending pleading text messages (all of which you consent to receive, only to hate on him more!), which is not on a par with eating off a partner's plate.

[tiredofvampires]

Why don't you text him this:

 

"Your texts are really disturbing me and I'd like for you to stop, please. I don't want to verbally lash out at you, but I'm in a space where I could, so please, for both our sakes, I'd appreciate if you back off. I will see you on Saturday, and before then, please leave me alone. Thanks in advance."

[tiredofvampires]

By the way, where are you meeting him on Saturday?

[tiredofvampires]

The things Trip-guy's doing to me are the things we all wished we could do to an ex…rapid-fire text, rambling messages and nonsensical emails that haven't even been proofread, begging for one more meeting, acting 100 percent out of pure emotion, throwing tantrums. Because it's easy to do that. I'd love to see the doctor's face if I had behaved like that when he told me he didn't want a serious relationship. But I didn't behave that way because, as cold as he was, I still respected him and his boundaries, which leads me to maybe trip-guy doesn't respect me.

 

No, you didn't behave like that because you had too much pride.

 

And if you had behaved like trip-guy, you know doc would have shut you down in no time flat by blocking you as a 'psycho b', and you wouldn't have wanted that final slap in the face.

[Naomi99]

I've been thinking a lot about the doctor lately. I miss him. Doesn't mean I will, but I wonder what happened to his health. Wonder what he would do if I reached out. It's been a year and a half.

[Naomi99]

By the way, where are you meeting him on Saturday?

Probably a cafe near my gym. So I can run in there and hide if he becomes weird.

[Applewhite]

I've been thinking a lot about the doctor lately. I miss him. Doesn't mean I will, but I wonder what happened to his health. Wonder what he would do if I reached out. It's been a year and a half.

 

OMG I just wanted to stop by and say :

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[IAmFCA]

None of those qualities I possess at the moment.

 

He just texted me requesting to meet sooner than saturday and I don't know why, but that set my blood boiling. I didn't respond because I just can't be nice right now.

 

I'm tempted to say "No thank you, I barely want to meet you on Saturday."

 

What are the needs within you that are being met by meeting him?

[East4]

Naomi, I'm sorry you suffered such hardship from your family. It must have been tough for you.

 

You can send an e-mail with specifics, but if you really want to meet the trip-guy, better go with a friend (the mediator), because I suspect it will go badly.

[katrina1980]

Naomi, I'm sorry you suffered such hardship from your family. It must have been tough for you.

 

You can send an e-mail with specifics, but if you really want to meet the trip-guy, better go with a friend (the mediator), because I suspect it will go badly.

 

Agree. His extreme obsession/desire, her EXTREME rage and anger, it could even get violent with Naomi throwing the first punch, she's "that" angry, and like I said before, he knows how to push her buttons. it's been known to happen.

[reinventmyself]

Two different motivations for meeting.

He isn't wanting to meet you for `closure' You know this.

He is wanting a face to face in hopes to wear you down.

 

(. . .I started to write the following sentence to state what I think your motivation might be and I realized I am not entirely sure)

 

Let's assume you are going based on what you say, to tell him the error of his ways and offer him closure (which he isn't really seeking)

You are both approaching this from extreme opposite spectrums with different agendas.

 

When someone is behaving erratically for reconciliation, he isn't going to be open to criticism.

 

How on earth will this go well?

What do you picture this ending looking like?

[reinventmyself]

Sometimes we want someone to want us. Even if we don't like them.

It's not pretty and it's purely ego.

If we don't know any better we allow that to define our worth.

 

Good case in point - You didn't have a lot of nice things to say about the Dr., yet you were determined to get this non committal man to want you.

Logically you knew this was impossible. Emotionally, you were determined. You admitted if you got want you wanted, you likely wouldn't want it after all.

 

Now you've won one. A not very desirable one, but you've got him pursuing you.

I think this is a pattern you need to take a look at.

 

There is just a lot of pursuit/retreat going on and not a lot of an actual relationship.

I think if you don't address this you will continue to do this cycle with someone else.

[Naomi99]

The meeting is cancelled!

 

 

 

He texted to confirm and I said okay.

 

Then an hour later he texts again re-confirming and I said "I already said okay. Please stop pestering me."

 

Then he sends 10 more texts about how he isn't pestering me and that I was the one who offered to meet. Finally I said "hey, I don't want to meet anymore."

 

The end. Not doing this.

[boltnrun]

Ready to block him yet?

 

You said before you didn't "need" to block him because you could resist responding. That went out the window!

 

So, how about now?

[Naomi99]

No. I don't block.