How come I can't magnify the good?

[katrina1980]

He promised not to ask for a second try. And he needs to see me one last time because he has questions I need to answer in order for him to move on. (f-ing needy a-hole. I mean, why am I responsible for this???)

 

He also promised if I don't want, I never have to see him again after this last meeting.

 

And I've already set up my boundaries lines. I'm not answering any of his questions that have to do with the time of the breakup to the present. (Are you seeing anyone? Have you had sex with someone else? Are you dating?)

 

In fact, I don't have to answer one damned thing if I don't want to. I'm seriously angry right now and a hair away from canceling the entire thing altogether.

 

He needs to meet again to move on, thats bull shyt. If you give in to that than 'you' are allowing him to dictate his desires and wishes upon you like you said he was doing in previous post. Don't allow it. Say your peace over phone and be done with it. He's manipulating you and YOU are allowing it. Be stronger.

[Naomi99]

He needs to meet again to move on, thats bull shyt. If you give in to that than 'you' are allowing him to dictate his desires and wishes upon you like you said he was doing in previous post. Don't allow it. Say your peace over phone and be done with it. He's manipulating you and YOU are allowing it. Be stronger.

 

 

I AGREE!!!!

 

When I decided to meet up, it was because I was trying to see this situation by his eyes. He is truly devastated. HOWEVER, I'm not responsible for easing that pain! I want to help him but doing so is a disservice to myself. It also won't help me any. SO am I doing this for? Screw him.

 

I've had broken hearts many times but I don't set caveats upon my ex. Do X and then Y.

[katrina1980]

I AGREE!!!!

 

When I decided to meet up, it was because I was trying to see this situation by his eyes. He is truly devastated. HOWEVER, I'm not responsible for easing that pain! I want to help him but doing so is a disservice to myself. It also won't help me any. SO am I doing this for? Screw him.

 

I've had broken hearts many times but I don't set caveats upon my ex. Do X and then Y.

 

I don't believe he is devastated, its all manipulation because he wants to see you again to spew more bull shyt. At this point, I would just tell him to screw off, but than again I don't like being manipulated. No seriously, don't tell him to screw off, just be firm and strong that's its over, you don't even need to tell him why, or you can tell him its over for you, your not feeling it anymore, and he needs to leave you alone or you will get a restrining order. Mean it!

[Naomi99]

I don't believe he is devastated, its all manipulation because he wants to see you again to spew more bull shyt.

 

He's left a 4 minute, a 2:30 minute, and 3 minute voice mails begging to talk and he sounds pretty bad, and I think he even started crying in one of them (or he fakes really well.) I forwarded some of these to my friends and they were like "Geeeze, what's wrong with him?" One friend even started laughing because it was so ridiculous. He said "I thought I would spend the rest of my life with you." It's a three-month relationship!!

 

I don't know what "questions" he has of me but this is emotional manipulation. Whether he knows he's doing it or not, I don't care. I think the best answer is to promptly remove myself from the situation.

 

I've already crafted an email canceling the meeting but I haven't hit send yet. I'm seriously depressed over this.

[journeynow]

I was trying to see this situation by his eyes.

 

Can you see his side AND maintain your boundaries, listen to your own needs? Are you thinking of canceling?

 

Liken this to him sticking his fingers in your food, you have the option there of turning your back, making that plate out of reach, and making your position clear. In this case, no meet-up, no scene, turn around to move forward with your best interests.

[journeynow]

Oops, I was typing my post when you made yours. I see you are considering canceling.

[Naomi99]

Can you see his side AND maintain your boundaries, listen to your own needs? Are you thinking of canceling?

 

Oh man, Journey, I am trying soooo hard to see his side. Yes, I can feel his pain because we have all been there. But the way he's handling this, I cannot relate to in any way. He's throwing tantrums and ultimatums, like a child. "Meet with me and I will leave you alone."

 

WHO DOES THIS?????

 

Even the USA does not negotiate with terrorist. So why did I????

[Naomi99]

You know what I'm considering doing? One of my best friends is an older gentleman who is a mediator. He knows everything and even heard the messages. I should bring him along. Can you imagine trip-guy's face seeing the two of us sitting at the table?

[journeynow]

Oh man, Journey, I am trying soooo hard to see his side. Yes, I can feel his pain because we have all been there. But the way he's handling this, I cannot relate to in any way. He's throwing tantrums and ultimatums, like a child. "Meet with me and I will leave you alone."

 

WHO DOES THIS?????

 

Even the USA does not negotiate with terrorist. So why did I????

 

You said you agreed to see him because you were trying to see his side. My point was that you can try to see his side without meeting. He already sent a long email, left messages, etc., so you've heard his side.

 

Naomi, to be honest, I think you are drawn to drama on some level.

[katrina1980]

Oh man, Journey, I am trying soooo hard to see his side. Yes, I can feel his pain because we have all been there. But the way he's handling this, I cannot relate to in any way. He's throwing tantrums and ultimatums, like a child. "Meet with me and I will leave you alone."

 

WHO DOES THIS?????

 

Even the USA does not negotiate with terrorist. So why did I????

 

How old is he again, the man has NO game. If he did he would have known to leave you alone when you first ended it. At least then you might have missed him and be willing to give it another shot. I don't usually like to be this critical of guys, but he's pathetic. Seriously pathetic. Unless again it's all manipulation (come'on crying?), I have nothing against men crying but cry alone for pete's sake, not in front of a woman who broke up with you and you want back.

 

Again I don't think you should believe any of this, send him one final telling him to leave you alone or you will go get a TRO, and be done. After that, I know you don't like to block but in this situation I think it would be smart. I would actually be scared for myself this point, he sounds seriously off his rocker.

[Naomi99]

He is mid 40s.

[IAmFCA]

Naomi, How is this going to be a positive experience, if you are going in to it beyond annoyed and dismissive of his behavior? I am not judging you for your reaction -- maybe it is warranted, maybe it is appropriate -- but if you bring that attitude into the discussion, there is no way it will be a level headed, constructive conversation. The one theme that has run through all of these incidents has been for you to find a way to maintain an even keel. So long as you are judging him in any way, that is not going to happen.

 

He may be Charles Manson. We don't need to judge Charles Manson, even though we certainly have grounds with which to do so, we just need to maintain appropriate barriers.

 

Parsing the post below for some nits and nats.

_____

 

So I texted him last night and made arrangements to talk next week. He was very happy. And I was not. After he thanked me I just laid on my bed and zombied out watching Indiana Jones marathon thinking how much I don't want to see him.

 

Then why do it?

 

 

I woke up this morning highly irritated and angry because I realized, once again, he is dictating his desires and wishes upon me. Switching his career location to be close to me, despite I had just broken up two weeks before. He can choose whatever he wants.

 

You choose to be angry. Why be so invested? It is his decision, and is not your responsibility. He is not dictating anything to you for you or upon you. As you say, he can choose whatever he wants. It is your choice whether you choose to be manipulated by his tactics or to dismiss them.

 

 

It's the same as digging his finger into my plate…because that's what he wants to do, despite my repeated comments about it being highly invasive.

 

So sit beyond arm's reach and move on. Seriously, if you were married, you would have to accept this behavior, accept that it is beyond his capacity to change, and change yourself. The same is true now. If you don't like it, sit further away. You don't even need to talk about it.

 

 

And now, once again, multiple messages begging to talk because he's too weak to move on and needs more explanation and closure despite my clear communication "we are broken up, move on." Never mind how I feel, how it is a waste of my time and emotion, never mind how this might be pushing me back a few steps.

 

None of which would have reached you if you chose to block his messages. You chose to read them, to be aware of his choices.

 

 

This whole meeting thing sums up the reason why we broke up. Dictating his desires and wishes upon me, at my expense, because of his emotional deficiencies.

 

But he didn't make you meet him. You chose to set that up. You do not have to play into his hand. You did say that his moving away was part of your reason for not resolving your differences -- maybe it is time to be more honest and say -- "I know I said moving away was why I didn't want to resolve them, but the truth is, I just don't want to, under any circumstances. I was wrong to schedule a meet up. I am sorry. I am not able to talk with you and maintain my composure. Until I can do that, I don't see how this can be a constructive conversation."

 

His last email, he pulled this card "If you cared about me, you would talk to me." Well, how about if he cared bout me, he would leave me alone? Why does he dictate everything? Just because i don't want to talk to him does not mean I don't care.

 

This is emotional manipulation. Any sort of reaction on your part means you are being manipulated. Ignore ignore ignore.

 

 

makes me so irritated I can't stand him even more. It's going to take every ounce of popcorn in me to hold back these horses. If I have my way, by time we are done, he will be limping out of the coffee house and not the good kind of limping. He asked for it, not me.

 

I am sorry to read this last piece. So, you are looking forward to unleashing your anger on him, sending him away broken and hurt, and saying it is his fault? And this benefits you how?

[reinventmyself]

You don't really believe this meeting has anything to do with enlightening him on his behaviors or closure, right?

So let's rule those out: Because if he was open to the idea he was clueless and pushy. . .he is currently being clueless and pushy now.

Closure? No, he just made a major career move based on your zipcode, right?

 

This guy is betting on the remote chance that you are playing `hard to get'.

Whether it's true or not it's the sense I think most of us get while reading between the lines

and that's the very reason why we ask you why you haven't given him a hard & firm -good bye.

 

We sense from here the door is still cracked open. It doesn't really come as a surprise he does as well.

 

Good luck, because you will need it.

You are about to meet face to face with the desperate man who thinks he'll throw in one last hail mary in an attempt to wear you down.

Is this really what you want to do?

 

Look. . if you want to get back together with him, then I will wish you all the best.

If it's so. . just say so.

[Naomi99]

ITHINKICAN -- Every time you write a post, you calm me down to a logical level.

 

Because at the time I agreed to meet him, I was feeling compassionate. The second I hit "send" on the text, I felt irritated.

 

Thank you for this. I already feel better and not as outraged.

[East4]

You know what I'm considering doing? One of my best friends is an older gentleman who is a mediator. He knows everything and even heard the messages. I should bring him along. Can you imagine trip-guy's face seeing the two of us sitting at the table?

 

Excellent idea!

Again, can you remind me why are you putting HIS needs ahead of YOURS?

[IAmFCA]

ITHINKICAN -- Every time you write a post, you calm me down to a logical level.

 

Because at the time I agreed to meet him, I was feeling compassionate. The second I hit "send" on the text, I felt irritated.

 

Thank you for this. I already feel better and not as outraged.

 

Thank you for saying so. I read my post again to discern what may have been helpful. The theme I am coming up with is Control. That you have control over your choices, how you engage, how you invest your energy, what emotions you choose to indulge and develop. Nobody is making you do anything or holding you responsible.

 

You each chose to get involved with the other, and that choice almost always carries the risk of having to become uninvolved. In fact, it is almost a known outcome.

 

So now, your job is to untangle yourself. As you said, you still care. You had an idealized view of this man and the cool adventure, and it can be hard to let that go. It is all part of the process.

 

This man has the responsibility for putting himself through his process. You can't do it for him. None of us can.

 

Given these universal truths, if you have it, keep this meeting short. Invest as little of yourself as possible. Say only what is constructive, necessary, and kind. The fact that he isn't suitable for you means he is suitable for someone else. Remember that. It will change how you frame your comments to yourself and to him.

[Naomi99]

Excellent idea!

Again, can you remind me why are you putting HIS needs ahead of YOURS?

 

 

Completely ignoring that he chose the less desirable job to be closer to me than the one of his dreams far away doesn't sit well with me. I know and understand fully it is not my responsibility and I had no say in the matter, but it's really heartless on my part, since I do have the upper hand, to willingly disregard that action.

 

I don't want to meet with him but I don't think I could sleep well ignoring this.

 

Also I want to scream at him and ask why did he do such a thing when I told him many times to make the decision based on your lifelong goal that you have worked so hard to obtain, not because of me. I have been saying that since the moment we became intimate. Then he does the exact opposite.

[Naomi99]

 

Given these universal truths, if you have it, keep this meeting short. Invest as little of yourself as possible. Say only what is constructive, necessary, and kind. The fact that he isn't suitable for you means he is suitable for someone else. Remember that. It will change how you frame your comments to yourself and to him.

 

This is great advice. Keep it short.

 

As a side note, in one of his messages, he says he's panicked about the real reason why I left him. He thinks either I'm pregnant or I got back together with the doctor. He just cannot accept incompatibility as the reason, but that's all he's going to get from me. I don't know what else I can tell him without hurting his feelings.

[Wiseman2]

It sounds like he's a good actor or totally went off the deep end. You know all he wants to do is eat your crumbcake. He's using the 'it's you, it can't be me' rationale?

he says he's panicked about the real reason why I left him. He thinks either I'm pregnant or I got back together with the doctor.

[IAmFCA]

So... you don't mind hurting his feelings by screaming at him about his choice of jobs, a choice which has nothing to do with you, your future, how he will be treating you, and for which he is accountable to nobody but himself.

 

On the other hand, you see no reason to discuss the questions he has, which is, what is it about the both of you that creates irreconcilable differences?

 

This is not logical, and reflects your needs more than it reflects his own.

 

 

Note how I phrased the italicized phrase, above. What makes you incompatible IS NOT a critique of him. It is a statement of your own needs.

 

Bringing up his job choice is actually hurtful, not kind. It had nothing to do with you. Oh sure, he says he chose it to be near to you etc. How much sense does that make? [not much.] How manipulative have his other statements been? [very.] His ability to represent his motivations is circumspect. And is none of your business. Further, if his motivations were sincere, then discussing the job choice is only hurtful. It only highlights that his judgment was way off.

 

 

I suggest you review your motivations, goals, and agenda topics with your mediation friend to make a detailed list of talking points. The ones you suggest are diametrically opposed to the meeting he requested, and to what may be useful if said constructively (Outstanding success might be if you hear a comment such as "Oh! I didn't realize some people were sensitive to that. I don't get social cues very well. Thank you for telling me.") Your agenda ignores his, same as his agenda has been ignoring yours in recent weeks. And the intensity with which you look forward to schooling him on his poor judgment violates his boundaries as an adult and an individual, just as he has violated yours. Finally, it is unnecessarily abusive.

 

Do you really want to be the same to him as he has been to you? I don't think so.

[katrina1980]

No one becomes 'this' angry at someone they have no feelings for and I mean deep feelings. If you don't think you do your in denial. The opposite of love is not hate (strong word but this it how it appears to me after all you've written in this thread). The anger and hostility is oozing out of your pores., screaming at him? Opposite of love is indifference. Which you are most definitely NOT. This thread is 28 pages!

 

What are so afraid of anyway? That's what this is about, your fear of 'something'. Falling in love? Losing yourself? Losing your freedom or lifestyle? Feeling locked in and suffocated? Choosing committing to the 'wrong person? Getting hurt?

 

This man definitely pushes your buttons and if you didn't care so much, you would have buried this weeks ago and I don't thinks it's because you like drama. I think it is because you love him but you are scared. He may suspect this too which is why he is pushing. Seems your almost in panic mode, acting very bizarrely and irrationally. You are in love with this man and scared shyt-less.

 

This relationship is not over, not by a long shot.

[boltnrun]

Are we going to read next that you two are back together because he "forced" you to accept him back?

 

What exactly are you getting out of this? Does it turn you on that a guy can't live without you?

[IAmFCA]

No one becomes 'this' angry at someone they have no feelings for and I mean deep feelings. If you don't think you do your in denial. The opposite of love is not hate (strong word but this it how it appears to me after all you've written in this thread). The anger and hostility is oozing out of your pores., screaming at him? Opposite of love is indifference. Which you are most definitely NOT. This thread is 28 pages!

 

What are so afraid of anyway? That's what this is about, your fear of 'something'. Falling in love? Losing yourself? Losing your freedom or lifestyle? Feeling locked in and suffocated? Choosing committing to the 'wrong person? Getting hurt?

 

This man definitely pushes your buttons and if you didn't care so much, you would have buried this weeks ago and I don't thinks it's because you like drama. I think it is because you love him but you are scared. He may suspect this too which is why he is pushing. Seems your almost in panic mode, acting very bizarrely and irrationally. You are in love with this man and scared shyt-less.

 

This relationship is not over, not by a long shot.

 

I am SO glad you posted this! I wanted to come back here to post and then decided to wait until I found a better way to frame it.

 

Naomi: my question: Have you, can you do the following:

 

Sit down, with a green steno pad. On the left write down what behaviors you want gone. For each behavior on the left, in the right column write down an alternative behavior, one with which you would like him to replace the disagreeable behavior. Both columns are necessary. A person can't eliminate a behavior without adding a new one, to eliminate only creates a vacuum that needs filling. For example, nail biting is replaced with fist-making. Or, eating off of your plate is replaced with "May I please have a French fry?"

 

Make this list. Then ask yourself: what if he made these changes? What then?

 

 

CAUTION: This is purely an internal exercise. I don't recommend asking other people to make wholesale changes in this manner. Rather, I would like you to ask yourself how you would feel if he did. Observe that feeling.

[Naomi99]

NO, I AM NOT IN LOVE WITH HIM!! (but if i could have sex one last time with him, I would.

 

you guys are funny.

[IAmFCA]

Oopsoopsoops