Can I Safely Date Older Men?

[Hollyj]

An older man is not going to want a platonic relationship.

[Zaphod]

You can be smart, but you do not have life experience. You also communicate in a different manner. How would you hang out with him and his friends, or attend a business function? If he even incorporated you into his life, as many frown on this and think it's odd. You are a generation behind these guys.

 

What would your family say.

 

Again, not entirely disagreeing with you here, but this does rather paint one design for life and one design for life only. It takes all kinds to make a world go round, and some very strange things often happen. Business functions? That's a bit specific, no?

 

But don't get me wrong, I think basically you have a point, but it can't be an objective or absolute statement. It is subjective. I would wager that there are succesful couples out there somewhere with this kind of age range.

 

"Should I roll these dice if I want a hard eight"?

 

Yes, but you're very unlikely to get it. That doesn't mean it's not perfectly possible though. As proved by all those guys that rolled a hard eight.

 

Compare an Eastern European girl or Chinese girl or American girl who are 18, or African girl as I mentioned. There's a considerbale difference. Now look at your stereotypical Italian man in his forties vs his American or African or European counterpart. There is quite a bit of fluctuation here. I might even wager that there are some eighteen year old women that are more emotionally mature and have more life experience than the forty year old man. It's an extreme, I grant you, but it exists.

[SkyBlue98]

An older man is not going to want a platonic relationship.

 

I agree, definitely a lot wouldn't. But I don't know about all... Anyway I dont want to argue. It's a tough situation.

[RainyCoast]

I am intelligent though... I don't like it when people assume I don't have anything to say just because I'm young.

 

absolutey, but then you want to limit yourself to ppl who firstly appreciate a good mind in a young person, not someone whose focus is on sexual gratification.

 

men aren't on dating sites looking for child prodigies.

 

weed out anyone whose obvious interest is elsewhere. at some point, you may find yourself in a relationship with someone mature who appreciates your qualities and is suitable for intimacy. you don't want to put the cart before the horse though.

 

at 18, your primary appeal is...sorry to repeat the disappointing fact...your physical attraction and vulnerability.

 

not many older men go about looking for girls fresh out of highschool to have a genuine friendship or a relationship based on a mutual quality exchange with.

[Hollyj]

No, I said I'd also be okay with just a friendship. I want more older female friends too but that's not an awkward situation like it is with men.

 

OP, I am not trying to be rude, but your responses show that you are not ready for this. Thinking that any man in his 40's is simply going to want to hang out with a young girl on a non sexual level. is extremely naive . I suggest you chat with your older lady friends and get their opinions.

 

Good luck.

[Zaphod]

BTW - is this a dating site only question? Or does it include you know, meeting a friend of your Uncle or something IRL?

 

He wants you to look pretty, supply a good body, give him sex, and adore him. Also, he wants your company in a fun way. He wants your feminine energy. You want his maturity and intellectual stimulation.

 

If you're honest about this, then that's a start.

 

I thnk what people are saying here is - be under no illusion. His primary drive with you will be animal. But that's no reason to suggest you can't also connect on an intellectaul level.

 

But then again, my primary drive with women my own age is animal, to be completely honest. In fact my primary drive with any woman I'm romantically interested in is animal.

 

Why don't you just give it a try? You're not breaking any laws. The only thing you can break is your own (or more likely his) heart.

[Hollyj]

Again, not entirely disagreeing with you here, but this does rather paint one design for life and one design for life only. It takes all kinds to make a world go round, and some very strange things often happen. Business functions? That's a bit specific, no?

 

But don't get me wrong, I think basically you have a point, but it can't be an objective or absolute statement. It is subjective. I would wager that there are succesful couples out there somewhere with this kind of age range.

 

"Should I roll these dice if I want a hard eight"?

 

Yes, but you're very unlikely to get it. That doesn't mean it's not perfectly possible though. As proved by all those guys that rolled a hard eight.

 

Compare an Eastern European girl or Chinese girl or American girl who are 18, or African girl as I mentioned. There's a considerbale difference. Now look at your stereotypical Italian man in his forties vs his American or African or European counterpart. There is quite a bit of fluctuation here. I might even wager that there are some eighteen year old women that are more emotionally mature and have more life experience than the forty year old man. It's an extreme, I grant you, but it exists.

 

Range yes, but she is only 18!

[SkyBlue98]

OP, I am not trying to be rude, but your responses show that you are not ready for this. Thinking that any man in his 40's is simply going to want to hang out with a young girl on a non sexual level. is extremely naive . I suggest you chat with your older lady friends and get their opinions.

 

Good luck.

 

I know what you're saying, honestly I do. You might find this hard to believe but I'm actually a pretty cynical person. I think sometimes life just feels so confusing and sometimes even dark that I just have to try to let myself believe in sometbing, even if it might not even be possible.

[Hollyj]

I'm coming from a good place. I just don't want you to be taken advantage of.

[SkyBlue98]

BTW - is this a dating site only question? Or does it include you know, meeting a friend of your Uncle or something IRL?

 

I've sort of given up on dating sites lol. I think they're not going to be very helpful in my situation. But I wouldn't really want to hang out with my uncle's friend

[itsallgrand]

Do you have male friends close to your age?

[SkyBlue98]

Do you have male friends close to your age?

 

Not really... I mean, I know guys close to my age but we're not really friendly.

[Hollyj]

Also, the older you get, the more baggage you bring.

[RainyCoast]

I know what you're saying, honestly I do. You might find this hard to believe but I'm actually a pretty cynical person. I think sometimes life just feels so confusing and sometimes even dark that I just have to try to let myself believe in sometbing, even if it might not even be possible.

 

that means you recognize the appeal for you is the possibility of an emotional and mental connection that enhances your growth and individuation.

 

see your posts went from can i safely date them, meet them on old, to clarifying you're looking to introject strength, authority, confidence, wisdom-- and the latter is perfectly cool, and it's even wonderful that you know at such a young age that you haven't received enough of it to introject.

 

i think it was itsallgrand who said that as you've grown a bit in the areas where you are seeking assistance growing, the romantic appeal and attractiveness will fade.

 

so i think for starters limit your search for paternal qualities to safer options. actual mentors, not men looking for hookups. as you soak up some of what you've sought, you'll be less likely to get intimate with men who function in big dog/underdog binaries, predators and assorted dysfunctional weirdos.

 

you are seeing what you're drawn to, and that it isn't bad in and of itself, but that it may become so if prematurely acted on.

[Zaphod]

Range yes, but she is only 18!

 

I do extend the range to this, it's just on the more extreme end of the spectrum, therefore most unlikely. The more extreme you get, the more unlikely it becomes.

 

I'm saying, we can't make it an absolute statement, we can only pronounce it as extremely unlikely.

 

The funny thing being, I think it's him that'll get fed up with it before she does. As an eighteen year old, one has to go some to keep up with a forty year old. In a number of ways. Assuming that said forty year old is a natural occurence, not some grotesque "dating site" manifestation

[SkyBlue98]

that means you recognize the appeal for you is the possibility of an emotional and mental connection that enhances your growth and individuation.

 

see your posts went from can i safely date them, meet them on old, to clarifying you're looking to introject strength, authority, confidence, wisdom-- and the latter is perfectly cool, and it's even wonderful that you know at such a young age that you haven't received enough of it to introject.

 

i think it was itsallgrand who said that as you've grown abit in the areas where you are seeking assistance growing, the romantic appeal and attractiveness will fade too.

 

so i think for starters limit your search for paternal qualities to safer options. actual mentors, not men looking for hookups. as you soak up some of what you've sought, you'll be less likely to get intimate with men who function in big dog/underdog binaries, predators and assorted dysfunctional weirdos.

 

you are seeing what you're drawn to, and that it isn't bad in and of itself, but that it may become so if prematurely acted on.

 

I think you're right... You seem really smart😀

[Zaphod]

I think you're right... You seem really smart😀

 

Yeah Ms Coast is on an effing roll tonight or day or whatever it is where she lives.

 

I tried to keep up with her, but I got a headache.

[RainyCoast]

zaph you will make me grow conceited.

 

note my teenage choice of mentors. martial arts and debate. i didn't realize it at the time, but it is evident in retrospect what i was looking to acquire. confidence, steel cold sharp wit, standing my ground, defending myself, cool poise, strength, persistence in battle, authority, even the potential to intimidate. all very paternal, masculine qualities. i already mentioned there was a lack of a proper father figure. to what extent i did sucessfully internalize these qualities is a different matter, there's certainly still plenty of room for improvement lol. but for sure, i made up for the paternal deficit significantly, if not entirely. (i forgot my music tutor. i ended up playing bass in the end...pretty sure that's some sort of symbol for a phallic alloseme, sorry if that's TMI lol)

 

i have amped up my friendships with older females lately. interestingly, my mother passed away two years ago. i didn't realize before her death to what extent i was intimidated and felt unworthy of filling up a grown woman's shoes. it became painfully, even humblingly obvious after she had passed though. i am obviously attempting to soak up mature feminine qualities through admirable women. i'm happy to hear at least they feel like they're getting something of value out of it too, and that their modelling isn't patronising or malevolently opportunistic in some way.

 

the thing with men...i am not easily impressed by their "authority" these days lol. I've experienced babies, 15 years my seniors... no thank you, their lack of masculine qualities was disappointing in a way...but i guess it helped me recognize that i had a "good pair myself", well, more seriously, that i had become a good enough "paternal figure" for myself. i look forward to meeting a man, whatever his age, whose maturity and wisdom can sustain my interest and admiration. i want a figure i can respect-- not as an underling, not from a position of power either, but as an equal... in my experience (perhaps very subjective, i don't know honestly)...it takes more than a number...and more than a display of confidence.

 

there is a line... i think it's by goethe...to never touch your idols. because the guilding will stick to your fingers.

 

people are neither to be underestimated nor overestimated. you're a very smart insightful cookie. don't be easily sold.

[Chloee1988]

I have A LOT to say on this subject. At 18, I married a 38 year old man who was divorced with 3 kids. 7 years later and I'm divorced with a beautiful daughter.

 

I, too, was seeking guidance and security from an older man because my father was not around for most of my teenage years. I was looking to compensate for his absence by dating older men. Looking back, I realize that I had major self esteem issues and was generally very unhappy with myself due to an absent father figure and unstable childhood.

 

In my case in particular, my ex husband preyed on my naïveté, and took advantage of me in many ways. He never treated me as a wife but rather as a daughter. A year into our marriage, he became physically abusive (while he was verbally and emotionally abusive from day 1). What he particularly liked to do was punish me with the car, or not give me $ when I didn't "behave". In no way did he ever treat me as wife.

 

Although his controlling wasn't an issue in the beginning (after all, this is what I wanted subconsciously), it was starting to become problematic for me. I cannot tell you how much you change from 18-25. In my personal opinion, this period is perhaps the most critical in terms of mental and emotional growth. I cannot tell you how much I changed throughout the course of our marriage. I was becoming more secure with myself and less tolerant of his behaviour. I became resistant and stopped depending on him completely after 3 years of marriage. I got a part time job and enrolled part time in university, all that with a 2 yr old baby! After years of individual counselling, I finally had the guts to move out.

 

Of course, I wouldn't ONLY blame the age difference for our divorce although it has certainly been a contributing factor; there were a number of other serious issues that he had. If he would have been willing to address his mental and emotional issues, I would have most likely stayed married.

 

In any case, my response to you would be to hold off on befriending or dating such older men. Factually speaking, you're still a child even though you may be more mature than you're average 18 year old. But I can guarantee that at 24,25, you will have very different ideas and opinions from the ones you hold today. However mature, only life experiences can give you true wisdom and knowledge.

 

Also, I do still date 35-40 years old today because that's always what I've been attracted to and connect with the most. However, since I'm a lot more older and experienced, I am more or less on the same page as them in terms of life experiences and intellect. I do believe once you're in your mid 20s or early 30s, you're more stable and pursuing a relationship with an older man would have a better chance at succeeding given the similar mindset you would both would have.

[Clarisse]

RainyCoast, at 32 you are wise beyond your years. Great posts, every one.

[citricacid]

I'm 24 and I've historically dated much older men, so let me throw my two cents out there.

I've never, ever dated an older man who had pursued me. Why? Because if a man double my age starts trying to chat with me in a bar, etc, chances are, he sees me as an easy lay.

Now, I've lived on my own since I was 16, I've travelled the world, I became a practicing attorney just after I turned 23. I definitely am an old soul, so I connect better with older people, unless I meet younger people who are similar to myself.

Anyway, to my point...because I've been a few years ahead of my peers, I've casually been surrounded by older people, giving me ample opportunity to meet men older than myself. All of the older men I've dated I have met through my career, more or less, and they really only took me seriously after spending time getting to know me through conversation.

You are simply too young to be in situations like this, and based on your responses, you seem like a typical 18 year old (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with), so I just don't see a grounded older man having an interest in dating you. These are men who have careers, likely been married and divorced, own their own homes, and you can't even get into a bar legally. There's a significant experience gap that you truly won't grasp until you're older and see it yourself.

Get some life experience, discover more about yourself, and find grounded, mature men under the age of 25. They exist, and you can learn a lot about who you are and what you need.

[Chloee1988]

zaph you will make me grow conceited.

 

note my teenage choice of mentors. martial arts and debate. i didn't realize it at the time, but it is evident in retrospect what i was looking to acquire. confidence, steel cold sharp wit, standing my ground, defending myself, cool poise, strength, persistence in battle, authority, even the potential to intimidate. all very paternal, masculine qualities. i already mentioned there was a lack of a proper father figure. to what extent i did sucessfully internalize these qualities is a different matter, there's certainly still plenty of room for improvement lol. but for sure, i made up for the paternal deficit significantly, if not entirely. (i forgot my music tutor. i ended up playing bass in the end...pretty sure that's some sort of symbol for a phallic alloseme, sorry if that's TMI lol)

 

i have amped up my friendships with older females lately. interestingly, my mother passed away two years ago. i didn't realize before her death to what extent i was intimidated and felt unworthy of filling up a grown woman's shoes. it became painfully, even humblingly obvious after she had passed though. i am obviously attempting to soak up mature feminine qualities through admirable women. i'm happy to hear at least they feel like they're getting something of value out of it too, and that their modelling isn't patronising or malevolently opportunistic in some way.

 

the thing with men...i am not easily impressed by their "authority" these days lol. I've experienced babies, 15 years my seniors... no thank you, their lack of masculine qualities was disappointing in a way...but i guess it helped me recognize that i had a "good pair myself", well, more seriously, that i had become a good enough "paternal figure" for myself. i look forward to meeting a man, whatever his age, whose maturity and wisdom can sustain my interest and admiration. i want a figure i can respect-- not as an underling, not from a position of power either, but as an equal... in my experience (perhaps very subjective, i don't know honestly)...it takes more than a number...and more than a display of confidence.

 

there is a line... i think it's by goethe...to never touch your idols. because the guilding will stick to your fingers.

 

people are neither to be underestimated nor overestimated. you're a very smart insightful cookie. don't be easily sold.

 

RainyCoast, much of what you have written resonates sharply with me. You seem to be extremely insightful and aware of your shortcomings! If you refer to my earlier post on this thread, it tells you of my experience being married to a man 20 years my senior. He was extremely abusive (emotionally, verbally and physically). Today, I am divorced (already 2.5 years). I was also looking for a father figure since my dad was absent through most of my adolescence. Even when he was around as a kid, he was physically abusive. My mother was also not emotionally present as she was dealing with her own emotional issues, so I basically grew up on my own. Naturally, I was seeking a relationship similar to the ones I've known which were abusive in nature. Because you only want what yore used to and have become accustomed to.

 

Fast forward to 7 years later, and today I am 25 years old, graduating in May of this year with a BA in social work while parenting my 5 year old daughter all on my own. Needless to say, I've come a long way from the dependent naive person I used to be and I am obviously very proud.

 

Although I've made tons of improvement in various aspects of my life, I still find myself repeating the same patterns when it comes to relationships. In my case, it's by seeking emotionally unavailable men who are dominant in nature. For some reason, they still provide a false sense of security that I so desperately crave. I still consider myself a people pleaser and have very low self esteem. I do visit a therapist every week who helps me a lot (already been with her 2.5 years).

 

My question to you is what kind of advice can you give me that will stop me from repeating the same destructive patterns and falling for men who don't treat me well. How can I be more secure, more confident? How can I stop my desire to please people to the point where I become someone else?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Wiseman2]

Dating sites are not for "friends". And stringing middle aged men along will never work. What is in it for them to have a high school kid want to be their "friend"? They have wives, jobs, families and kids your age. They would much rather mentor their own daughters.

Really what I want is just an older guy I'm NOT related to who I could just go out for coffee with and could be like a friend to me.

[RainyCoast]

i have thought about it extensively. and decided the answer is....42. *wink wink*

 

No, kidding, sorry

 

it may be obnoxiously long-winded, i just got off night shift and i have a propensitiy for rambling and meandering and sounding trippy when sleepy.

 

i hear ya on the self-esteem problems and always assuming the people pleaser role in a relationship. it seems tempting to think of it as a perpeatuation of father issues, but i wonder to what extent it is. i think in my case it's largely an heirloom of the maternal line, looking at our dynastic relationship patterns.

 

it takes two to tango. think about it, where the father is dysfunctional in some ways, the mother is too. I say that with geunine respect for our parents. While i have acquired some genuine strength from male role models, it hasn't outdone the inherited fragile femininity.

or maybe i just learned to fake confidence and strength from men--like so many men do ;-) ? Carry myself with the confidence of an average white male?

whilst feeling like a fraud, a decrepit helpless worthess ruin on the inside.--> That's my female ancestors, a crypt of them almost, a living-dead abscess in place where a healthy ego should be.

I've said it once before on here...i think learning and ego-strenghtening are overrated. They only go so far. The qualities we lack...can be developed. A lack can be..filled. People may be catalysts of such growth, but we do the growing ourselves.

So introjecting something worthy isn't the most difficult task in the world. To me, unlearning something maladaptive, deconstructing, eliminating a viscious introject that persuades me it is myself, my own inadequacy, unworthiness, that's difficult- again, just in my own personal experience.

 

It's what made you not take an issue with a controlling man initially- your assumed inadequacy. my boss said the exact same thing about her first marriage. She came here as a teenager, a refugee. Moved in with her aunt. Her new neighbor was a man much older than herself. He spotted her through the window, walked up to their driveway and said to her "first thing when you turn 18, you're marrying me". She just stood there wide eyed, deer in the headlights, said "o...K". She said after all that chaos, terror, vulnerability, confusion fleeing a warzone left her so disoriented that at that point she wanted to be LEAD. The confidence, the certainty, it seemed safe, like cool, yeah, i don't mind someone who actually knows what the heck to do taking over. That's the basis of (pathological) codependency. Ones assumed inability to meet life head-on. It's not a distrust for life. Everyone knows life can do whatever the heck it wants at any given time...but a distrust for oneself...a mature person would be able to take on any kind of circumstance..."unlike me, intimidated by them". (he turned increasingly more abusive, as she became increasingly more self-sufficient. they count on your dependency.)

 

I don't really know how one purges this inner presence that convinces them they are as helpless and wortheless as their predecessors felt themselves to be. I think it starts with recognizing it's a foreign presence, though it seems one's own because over time it had grown so strong, like a teratoma, teeth and all, a presence in it's own right, it feels like it dominates the personality . Monitoring for automatic thoughts and beliefs, questioning whose they are.

 

The people pleasing comes from precocious development, and is maintained by fear of finding yourself alone--scary if you also think you're incapable on your own. You develop freakishly refined, sophisticated abilities of attunement to others, reading their thoughts, feelings, desires, even unspoken ones, and gratifiying them before they're even voiced, to prevent abandonment or violence. I don't think there's a way around it, than to honestly define precisely where you think you're inacapable on your own, and focusing on developing those skills.

 

interesting thing--- not an answer, maybe food for thought--about the emotionally unavailable men. I mean obviously the habit of picking them is defensive, if they're not entirely emotionally invested in me, there's less chance of them finding out "i'm actually not worth the investment, i'm a fraud". By extension, it's also the habit of assuming you don't deserve better. But i wanted to say something else. With the man 15 years my senior, and horribly underdeveloped, i found myself emotionally detached. There was no way of having any gratifying emotional or intellectual exchange with him, lord forbid something enhancing growth or intellect...pfft. I'd get more wisdom and emotion out of a toilet seat. But everyone, paternally deprived or not, has some need for that kind of exchange, don't they?

So i found myself retreating into my own head, books, thoughts, existential and philosophical musings, i even smoked at the time and i had an armchair...are you picturing it--- i sat there like a mad professor, veiled in my own cloud of smoke and thoughts and questions and answering them for myself inwardly, an occasional index finger went up to make a point, pretty sure i mumbled to myself at times, turning the pages, in an armchair...like my then partner wasn't even there, he was glued to the tv set. i must've resembled...ironically.... a detached father. Seems hillarious to think of it now. Not sure what to make of it, but i find it fascinating, perhaps another uncanny living dead presence. i've introjected the father thing i guess, along with some maladaptive aspects as well.

 

I've improved regarding the tendency towards having an emotional wall up since. I don't really remember what lead to it.

A stubborn decision that i can't always feel ashamed and detach myself to cover up for the shame that is me, a decision that i needn't be "good" in the first place, and "good" is highly debatable. A lot of the conditioning just fallls of as you get tired of the self-inflicted torture i guess.

What helped a lot was the realizating my self-disclosure can be beneficial for others. (I switched to social work too, hi buddy Lots of people in that field who can benefit from knowing they're no more effed up than others, and definitely not accursed or sentenced to a life of dysfunction). It was an extra kick in the rear to stop sabotaging myself.

I mean i know ideally we would all start to respect ourselves for ourselves firstly. But often we don't feel motivated to precisely because the stupid inner tumor has us convinced we're not a worthy cause. And one recognizes oneself as worthy sometimes by recognizing others are. Through hammering it into my head people need to firsly be understood, not judged, that they are fallible, not bad, that they are thinking with their lost objects, not lowly, i had to start admitting...it extends to myself as well. What started as at least in part people-pleasing, caretaking, savior tendencies...ended up as an investment in myself. But maybe it helped that by the time i was fully aware and decided i wasn't going down the self-scarifising pitfall again, and took actual care not to...and that i won't have much of value to share..if i remain a neglected ruin.

 

Not sure that's helpful, my cerebral battery is low. I love this thread though. I'd very much like to soak up more of others' wisdom on the subject.

[Wiseman2]

Then why aren't you in college being mentored and intellectually stimulated by pursuing a degree?

I am intelligent though... I don't like it when people assume I don't have anything to say just because I'm young.