It's Not the First Date, That Kills, it's the 2nd.

[Sportster2005]

I'm with mines.

 

I'm also against this much of a relationship, especially a fledgling one, being based on texting. Texting has gotten out of control as stand-ins for real voice-to-voice conversation, where meaning and inflection come through.

 

There is a bit of irony here. We both agreed not to have any important conversations over text. Yet that's exactly what happened. Perhaps if she told me in person her focus was going to be her dad, I might have been able to more accurately infer what that meant. Did it mean, give me silence, I'll get back to you. Or did it mean, I might be delayed returning your texts.

 

I think she's a wonderful woman and will find someone.

[Blue Spiral]

That just...doesn't sound fun at all. I'm so glad that I've never dated...

[Sportster2005]

That just...doesn't sound fun at all. I'm so glad that I've never dated...

 

I would do it again in a heartbeat. Actually I'm going to.

 

Dating, like most things, has to be experienced, not read about.

[lilygirl]

It stopped and the streets are clean. I was able to get out today. Cleared my head. Think I'm turning the corner on this one.

 

It's sad that we seem to be so dismissive early in the dating game. We are usually nervous and more inclined to slip up. I don't know what it's like being a woman. But for this man it feels like trying to sneak up on a deer. One false or sudden move, and they leap away never to be heard from again.

 

This is a real shame when it comes to online dating. A bad photo or a misunderstood text and it can all fall apart. Many are just not very patient with this process, and in their rush to find the next best thing they miss out on a few possibly great opportunities. I am surprised at the number of men that circle back, and I am sure women do this as well once they realize they may have missed out because they were so quick to move on.

 

Think of the old days, sigh, you could smile a little at each other, pick up on some cues, suss out the situation in real life, and then choose how to proceed.

[Sportster2005]

1. I agree, it's the 2nd date that yields a go/no go decision. Although suddenly I am making this call on date #1, because I am more clear about what I want.

 

2. I also agree that she may have expected you to follow up, even though it was her turn. Sometimes, I lose track of whose turn it is, and also I am sexist: I put more of a burden on the man to express interest in the beginning. I don't think it's right so I've been teaching myself different habits. After decades of learning to follow, which wasnt my nature as a teen/young adult, following became a habit I didn't notice until recent years.

 

Though I responded to this one, ... oooops.

 

I'm starting to think, as others have hinted, I may have misread the situation and should have continued to text her. I think too much time has passed to turn this around. Momentum has stopped. Who knows what she is finding on POF. I think a text at this time won't be welcomed by her. What's that philosophy? do no harm. It's done. Anything now would do harm. I might bump into her some day. I might see her on pof someday and say hi. Then I can ask what happened. And even as I type that it sounds lame. I can't unring this bell.

 

I did say I was going to believe in the idea of abundance this year. Will put this behind and try again.

[Blue Spiral]

I would do it again in a heartbeat. Actually I'm going to.

 

Dating, like most things, has to be experienced, not read about.

 

More power to you. I don't see the appeal, so I'm not going to do it.

[Realitynut]

Anything now would do harm.

 

Why? How long has it been? Just say, I've been thinking about you, and hoping that your dad is doing better. The weather sucks....and I've been inside tossing and turning over my dilemma with you....should I txt, should I not txt. Does she love me, does she not. I even bought myself a damn daisy....

 

Ok...maybe not that.

 

I hate men who do not pursue...unless of course I don't want them to pursue.

 

Got it?

 

I, myself would txt one more time. I'm one of those who never say die! Just do it. What do you have to lose? She'll either respond...or she won't. If after one or two txts.....you'll have your answer! You give up waaay too soon my sexy man!

 

Also, How old is she? You said she had to go pick up her son. Is she in her 30's? If she is....she has ton's of opportunities to date around. Why not go for a so-so hot older woman....who would be thrilled to give you a second or third kiss!

 

Don't give up on us oldies, but goodies!

[j.man]

What do you have to lose?

His dignity, perhaps?

 

Plenty of "oldies but goodies" have enough respect for the time and efforts of men to not require they pursue them. Meeting people half-way isn't simply a courtesy. It's a common decency.

[IAmFCA]

His dignity, perhaps?

 

Plenty of "oldies but goodies" have enough respect for the time and efforts of men to not require they pursue them. Meeting people half-way isn't simply a courtesy. It's a common decency.

 

There is dignity in doing one's level best, and sometimes that means sticking ones neck out to make oneself clear.

 

I also vote for a text across the bow.

[lilygirl]

There is dignity in doing one's level best, and sometimes that means sticking ones neck out to make oneself clear.

 

I also vote for a text across the bow.

 

Yep, me too.

[Ms Darcy]

This is a real shame when it comes to online dating. A bad photo or a misunderstood text and it can all fall apart. Many are just not very patient with this process, and in their rush to find the next best thing they miss out on a few possibly great opportunities. I am surprised at the number of men that circle back, and I am sure women do this as well once they realize they may have missed out because they were so quick to move on.

 

Think of the old days, sigh, you could smile a little at each other, pick up on some cues, suss out the situation in real life, and then choose how to proceed.

 

I don't know about that.

 

In my opinion, I think a lot of people are looking for magic. Whether dating through an online site or meeting someone at a party, they are looking for some significant chemistry. There have been people who probably would have been nice enough boyfriends but I felt kinda "bleh" because I was hoping for really strong attraction.

 

At the same time, there is no one I walked away from that I regretted walking away from.

[Tom1990]

There is dignity in doing one's level best, and sometimes that means sticking ones neck out to make oneself clear.

 

I also vote for a text across the bow.

 

I've never met someone who equated chasing a girl with any sort of dignity. Usually it comes across as needy and clingy, if not downright stalkery.

 

Rather than chase a girl who plays hard to get, I'd rather rush straight at someone who's rushing straight at me and collide in an explosion of awesomeness whose soundwaves crush mountains.

 

No, better yet, someone who will walk side by side with me, our heads held high, knowing we're both rad and nobody has to chase anybody.

[IAmFCA]

I've never met someone who equated chasing a girl with any sort of dignity. Usually it comes across as needy and clingy, if not downright stalkery.

 

Rather than chase a girl who plays hard to get, I'd rather rush straight at someone who's rushing straight at me and collide in an explosion of awesomeness whose soundwaves crush mountains.

 

No, better yet, someone who will walk side by side with me, our heads held high, knowing we're both rad and nobody has to chase anybody.

 

One text to test the waters does not a stalker make.

[IAmFCA]

Though I responded to this one, ... oooops.

 

I'm starting to think, as others have hinted, I may have misread the situation and should have continued to text her. I think too much time has passed to turn this around. Momentum has stopped. Who knows what she is finding on POF. I think a text at this time won't be welcomed by her. What's that philosophy? do no harm. It's done. Anything now would do harm. I might bump into her some day. I might see her on pof someday and say hi. Then I can ask what happened. And even as I type that it sounds lame. I can't unring this bell.

 

I did say I was going to believe in the idea of abundance this year. Will put this behind and try again.

 

Time and momentum, true. But if you think it's worthwhile, call her up. Ask her out for a drink. Or send a funny text, "Saw that same waiter drop the tray again. !!" Something that remembers a old conversation.

[Beccy]

I've never met someone who equated chasing a girl with any sort of dignity. Usually it comes across as needy and clingy, if not downright stalkery.

 

Rather than chase a girl who plays hard to get, I'd rather rush straight at someone who's rushing straight at me and collide in an explosion of awesomeness whose soundwaves crush mountains.

 

No, better yet, someone who will walk side by side with me, our heads held high, knowing we're both rad and nobody has to chase anybody.

I can tell you that I would probably not have fallen for my love if he had not put so much effort into everything... I've never been in a relationship before, so I'm dumb and unintentionally flaky... He asked me out at least three times and I said no even though I wanted to go so badly. I was freaked out because I've never dated and my mom says dating is bad unless you're about to get married, but of course, how was he to know that?

 

I thought he might have given up on me for good, but he made another try a couple of days ago, using an occasion when I helped him out with something as an excuse to take me to the movies. He said he'd buy the tickets, pick me up from school at 10PM, and take me home afterwards! And I had made up my mind now, thankfully...or at least, I think I have. I said yes.

 

Yesterday night he texted me saying that they had changed his day off at work because he hasn't been selling much lately and needed to make up the numbers, and he wouldn't be able to come today. So I said, "No problem, there's always next week." And he said "No, they just changed it to tomorrow. I'll pick you up then. I miss you too much!" Then he said, "My friend, I know you have new friends. That makes me happy, but I hope you won't replace me." I sent him a text frown and asked whether or not he thought I'd meant it when I said we'd be friends forever, and he was like "Sorry! It was just a joke. You know I love you!"

 

Mind, this is a guy who is extremely shy and quiet...yet he's showing me he truly cares, and I appreciate that. I love him for it, I really do! And I would do anything for him. I can only hope I won't freak out when the time comes. I've never loved anyone this much before.

 

So, yes, I'd say contact her at least once, show her you care and are not just flaking out on her.

[lilygirl]

I don't know about that.

 

In my opinion, I think a lot of people are looking for magic. Whether dating through an online site or meeting someone at a party, they are looking for some significant chemistry. There have been people who probably would have been nice enough boyfriends but I felt kinda "bleh" because I was hoping for really strong attraction.

 

At the same time, there is no one I walked away from that I regretted walking away from.

 

In my experience online there have been many times where the chemistry does not even get a chance to surface because of the impatience of some of the daters. It isn't about settling for less than what you want it is about giving things a chance, and there have been many missed opportunities in my experience.

[Sportster2005]

Anything now would do harm.

 

 

 

I hate men who do not pursue...unless of course I don't want them to pursue.

 

Got it?

 

I, myself would txt one more time. I'm one of those who never say die! Just do it. What do you have to lose? She'll either respond...or she won't. If after one or two txts.....you'll have your answer! You give up waaay too soon my sexy man!

 

Also, How old is she? You said she had to go pick up her son. Is she in her 30's? If she is....she has ton's of opportunities to date around. Why not go for a so-so hot older woman....who would be thrilled to give you a second or third kiss!

 

Don't give up on us oldies, but goodies!

 

 

I hate men who do not pursue...unless of course I don't want them to pursue.

Exactly. And I'm just supposed to know if she wants to her not. Remember she signaled her focus was changing to family. I initiated the last text. She's the one logging into POF everyday. Why would I conclude at all she's interested? The idea that maybe I should have kept in touch and it's just a misunderstanding might be nothing more than fantasy, a way for me deny the obvious. A way of weeding off the sting of another rejection. A mysterious one, but they often are.

 

I also have to consider that if I want this to reignite the best way is to stay clear. If she's not interested sending a text will only ensure she will never be in the future. Like you said it's unpleasant to be chased by someone you don't want pursuing you. If she's sitting on the fence a text won't prod her into. Silence might though. I'm demonstrating I'm capable of walking away and am not going to play the lost puppy dog card. Sometimes you have to take a long view. It's over for now. Probably forever. But if I create another account on POF she might see me there. It might pique her interest. It won't if I sent her a pathetic hail Mary text when most? reasonable men would get the hint and gracefully bow out.

 

She was 51 I believe. I prefer women over 50.

 

Then again I might send a text just to silence the unbelievers. It would give some proof to my 2nd date theory

[Tom1990]

One text to test the waters does not a stalker make.

 

No, but that's not chasing someone. I'll check in on someone if I haven't heard from them in a couple days, but only once. If they don't get back to me, it's done. No chasing from me.

[Ms Darcy]

In my experience online there have been many times where the chemistry does not even get a chance to surface because of the impatience of some of the daters. It isn't about settling for less than what you want it is about giving things a chance, and there have been many missed opportunities in my experience.

 

Is that what people tell you or is that an assumption? I'm not challenging, I am just wondering.

 

I mean, I understand that is the narrative about online dating. People are impatient, people are superficial, but I would like to hear some evidence of it as a phenomenon.

[lilygirl]

Is that what people tell you or is that an assumption? I'm not challenging, I am just wondering.

 

I mean, I understand that is the narrative about online dating. People are impatient, people are superficial, but I would like to hear some evidence of it as a phenomenon.

 

It is a bit of both. The first time I tried online dating, I started chatting with a man and we had great conversation online, it was so fun. And then we met, and it fell flat. I think we built it up too much. A few days passed and he reached out and suggested another date, I was extremely hesitant because the first date was awkward but I went for it and it was great! We ended up dating for six months.

 

Since that time I have returned to online dating, and have made a great connection, either chatting online and getting ready to meet, or having one date, and it feels like if one thing goes sideways, like I said a not great photo or awkward exchange and it is a done deal. I think it feels like there is an endless supply of "perfect" matches when you start and I think that is one of the reasons that people can be so impatient and quick to move on to the next.

[TMifune]

I hate men who do not pursue...unless of course I don't want them to pursue.

Exactly. And I'm just supposed to know if she wants to her not. Remember she signaled her focus was changing to family. I initiated the last text. She's the one logging into POF everyday. Why would I conclude at all she's interested? The idea that maybe I should have kept in touch and it's just a misunderstanding might be nothing more than fantasy, a way for me deny the obvious. A way of weeding off the sting of another rejection. A mysterious one, but they often are.

 

I think that this hits one of the major frustrations that men have with dating. The uncommunicated expectations and double standards.

 

I want guys to pursue....unless I've decided that I'm not attracted to him, then I want him to read my subtle cues and understand before he pursues that I don't want his pursuit. I mean it's pretty much the pre-dating equivalent of "I'm not mad....well, you should know why I'm mad" bullcrap. Even worse, some women like to try to shame guys for "not getting it". I'm sorry, but the fact that the guy couldn't tell you weren't attracted to him before he, you know, asked you about it doesn't make him a creep or a loser or an ahole.

 

Sportster.....I don't know what my advice is worth, I have been beaten down until I understand that I fall in the "don't you dare pursue me" category. But if I were in your shoes, I would make it a point of being absolutely 100% direct in all my communication.....and if she plays any kind of games or tries to communicate indirectly or subtly in that "I want to say this thing, but I don't want to be responsible for the consequences of saying it" kind of way, or the (imo) even worse "I want to say or do A but I need to communicate A in some ridiculous way because I'm terribly worried what people will think if I just say 'I want A'" then walk the hell away and don't look back.

[Ms Darcy]

It is a bit of both. The first time I tried online dating, I started chatting with a man and we had great conversation online, it was so fun. And then we met, and it fell flat. I think we built it up too much. A few days passed and he reached out and suggested another date, I was extremely hesitant because the first date was awkward but I went for it and it was great! We ended up dating for six months.

 

Since that time I have returned to online dating, and have made a great connection, either chatting online and getting ready to meet, or having one date, and it feels like if one thing goes sideways, like I said a not great photo or awkward exchange and it is a done deal. I think it feels like there is an endless supply of "perfect" matches when you start and I think that is one of the reasons that people can be so impatient and quick to move on to the next.

 

See that's interesting. I think for your first example, since you guys actually met not continuing to date would have been more about awkwardness than feeling like there a hundred other options open. I mean, online is just a tool to meetup and gauge things and if things go south that's more about those people.

 

I can see what you mean about feeling like there's an endless supply of matches though.

[LoveSoDeep]

I skipped some of the posts in the middle I'll go back and read then in s minute....but really here's what happens after the 1st or second date. If the first date is short and nothing goes terribly wrong and there's some spark there the woman will probably agree to a 2nd date. After the second date (or the first if it's long and a lot of exposition goes on) she calls her BFF or all her friends, or her sister, or whoever she likes to talk to and tells them all about her date and how it went. She goes over the good things and the possible red flags and her friend eagerly take sit all in and can't wait to give advice. If she had some misgivings and her friends pick up on it and agrees then no matter what she agreed to previously. It's probably done. If you didn't already have date 3 planned you'll never get one and if you did there's about a 70% chance she'll cancel (so if you want even that 30% chance of date 3 set it up while on date 2 if you can).

 

Too many people now have this "You deserve the absolute best, don't settle for anything less!" attitude and they want this for their friends too(it's a nice thought....it really is but I'm not sure it's helpful). It's so easy to go back on PoF and try again that men and women both are willing to drop out and move on for small issues or perceived issues (they may not even be real). All it takes is one person to validate that one small question....to jump on that one con and say "Oh, no you can do better than that." and it's off to try again.

 

I hate to say it, but the less I talk to my girlfriends about my dating life...the more 3rd and 4th dates I go on.

[Sportster2005]

There is dignity in doing one's level best, and sometimes that means sticking ones neck out to make oneself clear.

 

I also vote for a text across the bow.

 

It comes down to vulnerability. How much does one spend on a person?

 

People argue what is there to lose? I don't like to lose, especially in dating. If I count this as a loss I've already began moving on. If I contact her it's likely to sting a bit. Put myself through the loss again. Why put myself through needless discomfort? It's a fair question. I'll answer it with a question. Considering mathematically how difficult it is to find someone and end up in a relationship, realistically what are the chances of a positive outcome from another shot across her bow. I suspect it's infinitesimally small. And then I'm reminded of this failure. And I've signaled to her I can't accept her verdict and move on. I doubt if I will bump into her IRL. But online, very possible. I would like to be the guy that walked gracefully and dignity intact. If she's curious or interested contact me. I gave her a fair and reasonable pursuit.

 

And at the end of the day I have to remember that one cold nonnegotiable fact of life. It doesn't matter how much I like her, it's how much she likes me that matters to my success.

[Sportster2005]

I skipped some of the posts in the middle I'll go back and read then in s minute....but really here's what happens after the 1st or second date. If the first date is short and nothing goes terribly wrong and there's some spark there the woman will probably agree to a 2nd date. After the second date (or the first if it's long and a lot of exposition goes on) she calls her BFF or all her friends, or her sister, or whoever she likes to talk to and tells them all about her date and how it went. She goes over the good things and the possible red flags and her friend eagerly take sit all in and can't wait to give advice. If she had some misgivings and her friends pick up on it and agrees then no matter what she agreed to previously. It's probably done. If you didn't already have date 3 planned you'll never get one and if you did there's about a 70% chance she'll cancel (so if you want even that 30% chance of date 3 set it up while on date 2 if you can).

 

Too many people now have this "You deserve the absolute best, don't settle for anything less!" attitude and they want this for their friends too(it's a nice thought....it really is but I'm not sure it's helpful). It's so easy to go back on PoF and try again that men and women both are willing to drop out and move on for small issues or perceived issues (they may not even be real). All it takes is one person to validate that one small question....to jump on that one con and say "Oh, no you can do better than that." and it's off to try again.

 

I hate to say it, but the less I talk to my girlfriends about my dating life...the more 3rd and 4th dates I go on.

 

This so depressing. Very true, I suspect. But very depressing.