An Apple a Day - A Dating Journal

[Fudgie]

When I read the bit about him feeling like a "piece of meat", I interpreted that as him feeling like you push for more sex than he wants to have. Do you initiate more? And does he turn you down a fair bit?

 

I agree with Batya that the age thing is kind of BS. People's desires can decrease over time but that's not always the case and it can't be generalized for everyone.

[Applewhite]

When I read the bit about him feeling like a "piece of meat", I interpreted that as him feeling like you push for more sex than he wants to have. Do you initiate more? And does he turn you down a fair bit?

 

I agree with Batya that the age thing is kind of BS. People's desires can decrease over time but that's not always the case and it can't be generalized for everyone.

If I initiate it's extremely subtle like touching his leg gently etc. If it goes nowhere I stop. I don't push.

[Fudgie]

How often do you initiate and how often does he turn you down? Has he made such comments before about feeling like a piece of meat or feeling like "you want sex too much"?

[Applewhite]

How often do you initiate and how often does he turn you down? Has he made such comments before about feeling like a piece of meat or feeling like "you want sex too much"?

I almost never initiate because I'm afraid of being turned down. We only have sex when he initiates.

 

Me initiating (happened like twice) consists of asking to cuddle and touching his leg then giving up.

 

Early in our relationship I went on a trip and while I was away sent him a lot of sexual messages etc BC I missed shim and was horny. He made some similar comment back then too. I never thought much of it till now.

[Batya33]

What I meant to say I guess is that sometimes when I want to talk in person that puts him on defensive because we have to talk in the first place. He thinks of it as why do we always have to talk. He has gotten better, but still...

 

I would consider how often you do the "we have to talk" approach, when you do it and why. Maybe he has to improve but also look at yourself too. Do you find "we have to talk" is a regular occurrence? That's why i recommended the sandwich approach.

[Applewhite]

I don't say "we have to talk" , I do do the sandwich approach. Usually it's not talking but questions I have anyway. So I'll throw in a question like "if you won the lottery would you be more likely or less likely to marry me" and get a laugh out of him, then ask him something more serious like do you want kids or are you happy with our relationship or something like that.

[Batya33]

I don't say "we have to talk" , I do do the sandwich approach. Usually it's not talking but questions I have anyway. So I'll throw in a question like "if you won the lottery would you be more likely or less likely to marry me" and get a laugh out of him, then ask him something more serious like do you want kids or are you happy with our relationship or something like that.

 

So, I'd let up for now on the "serious" broad questions that fall under the category of Our Relationship. Serious stuff otherwise -sure! Look, I'm married 8 years, with my husband for over 10 years and I had to humble myself just in the last few days over intense discussions about potential home buying/his pack rat tendencies. It took a lot of self-talk/impulse control on my part despite my PMS. We ended up having a decent convo plus a serious talk about the recent deaths in our family and the ramifications. But I am telling you -I had to focus on me - on being humble about my shortcomings in communicating, and be very other-centered about the timing of our talk, my motivations, etc. So shift away from the Relationship Talk and shift towards practicing a bit more humility and being a bit more other-centered.

[Applewhite]

So, I'd let up for now on the "serious" broad questions that fall under the category of Our Relationship. Serious stuff otherwise -sure! Look, I'm married 8 years, with my husband for over 10 years and I had to humble myself just in the last few days over intense discussions about potential home buying/his pack rat tendencies. It took a lot of self-talk/impulse control on my part despite my PMS. We ended up having a decent convo plus a serious talk about the recent deaths in our family and the ramifications. But I am telling you -I had to focus on me - on being humble about my shortcomings in communicating, and be very other-centered about the timing of our talk, my motivations, etc. So shift away from the Relationship Talk and shift towards practicing a bit more humility and being a bit more other-centered.

I am trying to understand your message but I am not sure I do. Are you saying it's too early to have relationship/future discussions 6 months in when we are in our 30s? He himself talks about buying a house together moving in etc.

[Batya33]

I am trying to understand your message but I am not sure I do. Are you saying it's too early to have relationship/future discussions 6 months in when we are in our 30s? He himself talks about buying a house together moving in etc.

 

Not at all. Just sounds like you expect him to have regular State of the Union conversations about The Relationship. That gets boring and old fast. Of course you should have specific discussions about the future - let him initiate those discussions far more of the time and lighten up - if you are both on the same page and you need to talk specifics about looking at houses, etc then those kind of mundane things can be emailed. But instead of Relationship Talk have a relationship - have fun together, be silent together, talk together, laugh together, be romantic and affectionate. You seem to think that moving forward requires a lot of Relationship Talk. It doesn't unless you're concerned that you two are not on the same page.

[Applewhite]

There are some things about which I don't know if we are on the same page. But also sometimes small concerns come up and I want to talk about them. Something routine and simple like : can you stay over once a week. Or can you tell me which night I can see you.

[Applewhite]

Or it could be more intense like : look I know my ex situation bothers you, I want to explain myself but also make some adjustments and come to a co promise where you feel better

[notalady]

Is he affectionate otherwise? Initiate kissing and hugging and hand holding and cuddling etc? Or do you initiate those too?

 

Mismatched sex drive can be a big issue. After the first couple of months where it was all new and exciting, my ex (also 38 at the time) reverted back to his non-sexual non-affectionate state, and even said that he's not fussed about having sex, he's ok with once every couple of weeks, and when I said I need at least once a week (other than of course if you've been too busy and tired or sick or whatever situation that might happen which is fine), he said he couldn't commit to that. He also wasn't affectionate outside of sex other than when I initiate (and I got tired of feeling unwanted so I stopped initiating as well), so I felt like we were pretty much having a friendship rather than relationship, so that was a major deal breaker for me. We only dated 6 months.

 

On the flip side, my other ex (together 2.5 years) had waaaay higher sex drive than me, if it was up to him, we'd have sex every single day, even if either one of us is sick (eg flu). So when we did talk about it, and I said in the long term, I think I'd be happy with 3 times a week, and he said that's not enough for him lol... anyway we saw each other 3 times a week or so, and he expected to have sex every time we saw each other, or he get grumpy / sulky, so I felt pressured and it became more an expectation and routine rather than a fun thing to do together. He told me sex is how he feels loved, which I totally get but surely you have to go out and do stuff some of the time, rather than having to have sex every single time? When we just go on a date with no sex, he said it felt like we were just friends or something, which is ridiculous. He also got upset when some of the times when we walked through busy streets, I walked in front and away from him (from his perspective) rather than holding his hand and walking together (which is also a requirement by the way, we always had to hold hands no matter what.....), it was all just way too...needy for me.

 

With current boyfriend of 1.5 years, we never had to talk about sex or frequency or anything like that, it just flows, we have matching sex drives, other than the odd few times when one of us was in the mood and the other wasn't, in which case we still accomodate to the other's needs. Our affection level also match. So there never needed to be a conversation about basic relationship things like these.

 

So my point is, if you need to discuss a basic needs like sex and having to ask someone to modify their behaviour (ie not letting them be themselves, as he said), then I think it's suffice to say you have incompatible needs and you need to rethink compatibility overall.

[notalady]

Not at all. Just sounds like you expect him to have regular State of the Union conversations about The Relationship. That gets boring and old fast. Of course you should have specific discussions about the future - let him initiate those discussions far more of the time and lighten up - if you are both on the same page and you need to talk specifics about looking at houses, etc then those kind of mundane things can be emailed. But instead of Relationship Talk have a relationship - have fun together, be silent together, talk together, laugh together, be romantic and affectionate. You seem to think that moving forward requires a lot of Relationship Talk. It doesn't unless you're concerned that you two are not on the same page.

 

To add on to this, I had a lot of relationship talk with my ex of 6 months, in hindsight, that was reflective of exactly the fact that we weren't compatible on a lot of things, so a lot of things needed to be talked about, behaviours needed to be modified for it to work etc.

 

In contrast to my ex, current bf and I never have to talk about the relationship or verbally agree on anything relationship wise, it just flows. Only conversation we had was about one year in when I asked him how he thought we were going and what he thought about the future and marriage, and we made sure we're on the same page, and that was it. Very early on we discussed marriage as a general topic and it also came up a few times over time, but not specific to us, just in general or in relation to others.

 

So to me, the fact that you need to have so many talks about basic relationship things like how often do you want to see me, can we have sex more, will you want to marry me if...(even if it's delivered in a joking way), seems to me like this isn't working too well. There shouldn't need to be this much talks about the relationship and it should flow more naturally.

[Applewhite]

He is very affectionate otherwise so I do not feel deprived that way. Sometimes I don't kiss him on the lips because I haven't brushed yet in which case he will grab my head and kiss me anyways

 

I would love to have sex everyday. I could settle for 2-3 times a week. But we last had sex a week ago.

[Fudgie]

Is it possible that you two just don't have compatible sex drives? You may be okay with 2-3x a week but maybe he is more of a once a week person, or less.

[Applewhite]

Is it possible that you two just don't have compatible sex drives? You may be okay with 2-3x a week but maybe he is more of a once a week person, or less.

Maybe, I don't know. It upsets me to think about it.

[notalady]

Is it possible that you two just don't have compatible sex drives? You may be okay with 2-3x a week but maybe he is more of a once a week person, or less.

 

It certainly sounds like it.

 

Apple, your preference is actually every day, and 2-3 times a week is more of a compromise for you, your lower limit, whereas for him, I don't think his preference is even 2-3 times, it seems to be much less. Did he ever tell you what his preference is? Or I guess, how often do you actually have sex?

[Batya33]

One of my favorite talk radio psychologists- the late death joy Browne- used to advise to see what each person wanted and try to meet in the middle. Usually the guy wanted it more often. My sense is you need reassurance through sex that he wants to be with you.

[Applewhite]

Oh no I know he wants to be with me. I'm just really horny and I want him.

[Applewhite]

I can actually honestly say that I don't doubt that this man loves me and I love him.

[Batya33]

Oh no I know he wants to be with me. I'm just really horny and I want him.

 

That's great. So figure out your priorities. He actually said he feels like a piece of meat and that's not too far from "I'm just really horny and I want him". If you see that he's getting frustrated by how often you do a Relationship Talk and how you communicated with him about sex then can you find a way to take care of your horniness without needing him involved in that way? I do think you two should, when you're both calm and clothed, talk about sex drives, etc - in person.

[Applewhite]

That talk might be tonight. I will update.

[Applewhite]

So we talked, and as usual after we talk everything seems much less a problem and mostly resolved.(although he did get angry mid conversation and freaked me out just a bit he calmed down and we resolved pretty much everything on a positive note).

 

So on the issue of hi feeling "like a piece of meat" he explained why as best he could, this he could put his finger on. That's easily fixable.

 

On the issue of sex frequency, he says is really he would like to 3-4 times a week. (I think he's exaggerating a bit, but OK). So I pointed out how we haven't had sex in a week and he said it's because I'm sick (I have an ear infection not a cold but I guess he didn't want to risk getting a cold, whatever).

 

So we kissed, hugged, laughed talked about other things, play faught and all seems OK.

 

That's my update. To be continued....

[Batya33]

I'm glad you were able to resolve everything.

[Applewhite]

I'm glad you were able to resolve everything.

Thank you Batya.

 

The good thing is in all of the 3 relatively big conflicts we had in our 6 months, while it was pretty intense or difficult before and during the conflict, at the end it is always loving, stronger, lot of teasing playing laughing and bond building after resolution.

 

Now the only issue is I sense in myself some awkwardness+insecurity+residual resentment about me initiating sex. I don't think I can initiate from now on, for a long time if ever.