azadeh Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hi all - I wanted to ask you all a pre-engagement question. So, my boyfriend of three years and I have been talking about and planning our future together. I'm Muslim and he's Christian and he knows that we have to be engaged before we live together. A couple of months ago, he said "Let's plan to move in together by Dec. 2015," which is when my current lease is up. I'm super excited, because I know that means he will propose sometime in the near future. Here's my question: Do most men know that they have to ask the woman's parents for permission before they propose? Or is this something I need to clarify with him somehow? The reason I ask is because, while my parents absolutely love my boyfriend and would 100% support our engagement, they would feel totally disrespected if he didn't discuss it with them beforehand. On the one hand, I don't want to have to tell him and ruin anything by involving myself. But on the other hand, I don't want him to risk being judged by my traditional parents. What should I do? Link to comment
relevart Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 This is something you need to tell him just so there is no confusion or awkward moments coming. He may already know this, but on the other hand, I don't think this happens nearly as much as it did in the past. You may also wish to clarify that you're not moving in with him until you guys are married. If you handle it delicately, then there should be no problem. If he seems to be taken aback that he thinks you think he didn't know, make a joke about how you were just making sure. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 He does not HAVE to ask them. Most people now do not. CAN he do it? Sure. Tell him it is important to your parents. Link to comment
jimthzz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It is my understanding, and you have not even brought this up, that a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian. Just the idea of it can be risky to your health. How are you going to address this? Link to comment
WithLove Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'd explain that I have very traditional parents and that it's customary for the man to ask for their daughters hand in marriage. That's all. It won't ruin any surprises and it gives him a heads-up. Link to comment
azadeh Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 It is my understanding, and you have not even brought this up, that a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian. Just the idea of it can be risky to your health. How are you going to address this? OMG THANK YOU FOR TEACHING ME ABOUT MY OWN RELIGION!!!!!!!! Are you kidding? Clearly, I'm not that religious if I've been dating him openly for 3 years... Plus, I live in AMERICA - where I am free to make my own decisions. I swear, people think Islam is this all-encompassing, crazy religion that dictates your every move. It's not. There are close to 2 billion Muslims in the world - do you really think none of them are marrying outside their religion? Do you really think every single one of them are practicing every aspect of Islam with perfection? I mean, damn. I know you're probably trying to help, but I can't help but find your question offensive. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Don't sweat the small stuff. Link to comment
jimthzz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 A wee bit defensive are we? Hope all goes well for you, but I'd have said the same question of a cross-religion relationship if it were Mormons/Catholic or Hindu/Buddhist. You had mentioned that your parents are traditional. Hence my question. As for being in the USA is concerned, there have been serious cases of familial violence over this kind of thing. I wish you the best, but don't lash out so much, OK? I ask questions to inform myself so i can better respond. Neither of us knows a darn thing about the other. You don't know my understanding of Islam or Christianity and I don't know yours. Good luck. Link to comment
azadeh Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 You're right, you're right. I do apologize. Your question just read kind of condescending to me. I've spent a big part of my life having to answer questions like that and, unfortunately, my experience has been that they rarely come from a genuine place. Hence, the judgment and defensiveness. I shouldn't let my experiences color my reactions to others. I'm sorry. Link to comment
BigKK Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'm sure azadeh has been questioned like that countless times hence the backlash, but I don't think jimthzz was trying to stir the pot necessarily. Dealing with cross-cultural and religious differences can be a pain. I've experienced it myself, and I think it's a valid question. Considering you mentioned traditional parents and asking about permission, but never touched upon the difference in religion. I come from what I thought was a fairly accepting open culture and was quite disillusioned when I began dating someone from a different race especially from what my family members were saying behind my back. From my understanding or rather assumption, they're traditional in the sense they would like him to ask, but not SO traditional that they would still be accepting of your marriage. Link to comment
relevart Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 My brother in law, born and raised in the south by crazy a** white Baptists, married a Muslim girl. Neither are what you would call devout. There have been issues from both extended families -- maybe mroeso the crazy a** white Baptists -- and they have distanced themselves from both sides. Link to comment
jimthzz Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It is my understanding, and you have not even brought this up, that a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian. Just the idea of it can be risky to your health. How are you going to address this? OMG THANK YOU FOR TEACHING ME ABOUT MY OWN RELIGION!!!!!!!! Are you kidding? Clearly, I'm not that religious if I've been dating him openly for 3 years... Plus, I live in AMERICA - where I am free to make my own decisions. I swear, people think Islam is this all-encompassing, crazy religion that dictates your every move. It's not. There are close to 2 billion Muslims in the world - do you really think none of them are marrying outside their religion? Do you really think every single one of them are practicing every aspect of Islam with perfection? I mean, damn. I know you're probably trying to help, but I can't help but find your question offensive. You're right, you're right. I do apologize. Your question just read kind of condescending to me. I've spent a big part of my life having to answer questions like that and, unfortunately, my experience has been that they rarely come from a genuine place. Hence, the judgment and defensiveness. I shouldn't let my experiences color my reactions to others. I'm sorry. Apology accepted. It was not a pot-stirring exercise. IMHO, if you do not address the issue, you could have problems on either side of the equation--USA residency or not. Link to comment
itsallgrand Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think you should tell him too. It's part of the discussion of building a future together. Otherwise he is left to assume ; and that can go oh so wrong. Have you ever discussed that part of how engagements traditionally go down in your family? Link to comment
DancingFool Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 You should never ever assume that your SO would know your family's expectations. So yes, you absolutely need to clue him in so that there are no grudges and resentments for years to come. Asking the family used to be a common tradition accross the board, however in today's society not true anymore. So just tell him not from the standpoint of does he know this, but more from the standpoint of this is really important to my family. Link to comment
Unreasonable Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 You should tell him, but I don't know how you'd do it without sounding like you're expecting a proposal. Link to comment
abitbroken Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think that you should ask that if he plans to want to live with you in December 2015, what future does he see. You are not going to "plan to live with him". You either want to plan to marry him - or stay dating. That means that you guys get engaged and set a date - and then you move in, or you continue dating as you are. I think "getting engaged so we can live together" is not the right approach. Living together BECAUSE you are engaged and the wedding date is around the corner is another thing entirely. I am not a prude - I am experienced divorced woman who lived with someone for quite a long time before marriage without plans for marriage and know the impacts and like to try and get young women to think about their end goal before they do things. You have to decide if this is the guy you would like to marry or not, basically. No harm in continuing to date eachother and not get engaged/married, but engaging just to live together or to just live together is not maybe what gives you the end result you want. I also think people are not out of line to point out the religious difference. Even if you are in a more progressive family, I think that you need to discuss how the differences will impact your relationship in the future. There are people who are very secularly or just "culturally" Christian or Muslim, but when they get a little older, have kids, someone dies in the family, plan a wedding, their upbringing or even some renewed faith comes into play - or how the kids will be raised sometimes causes a lot of conflict. Or when presenting the fiance to great-grandmother. I know you are free to marry who you want to - but that doesnt mean that you shouldn't talk about these things. I know people who were young and fancy free until family disowned them, even if its a free country, or the blending of the backgrounds comes into conflict later on in how they teach their kids about any afterlife, or any tradition. So - talk about these things. They would be part of premarriage counseling for anyone. Come to agreements on these things - what is negotiable and what isn't, etc, before moving in with eachother, getting engaged, and finding out its a big deal later to you. Link to comment
abitbroken Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 You should tell him, but I don't know how you'd do it without sounding like you're expecting a proposal. Tell him that you don't believe people should just move in together. That you know your lease is up, but you will be happy to continue dating him and getting closer to him while renting a room, living with another girl, etc, if you are both not considering that step - no pressure there. You could even do a 6 months lease or sublet from someone who moved and is finishing their lease. Link to comment
abitbroken Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 You should never ever assume that your SO would know your family's expectations. So yes, you absolutely need to clue him in so that there are no grudges and resentments for years to come. Asking the family used to be a common tradition accross the board, however in today's society not true anymore. So just tell him not from the standpoint of does he know this, but more from the standpoint of this is really important to my family. Asking for a woman's hand is something all of my siblings/cousins fiance's did, whether it was asking formally or informing dad or grandpa that he was going to propose. I don't think its strictly a thing for Muslim brides. I think it is fairly cultural in the US. In one case, the older couple both went to the dad- the prospective bride and groom were my uncle who lost my aunt some years ago, and his potential bride. They both went to her father together even if it was not really required out of respect. They were pretty sure he was not going to say no - nor did they need his approval. Link to comment
itsallgrand Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 p.s. I was a little taken aback by the idea that asking permission of the parents for engagement would be the assumed default. "back in the day" I think it was more common in the west, but it is seen as a little more old fashioned now. So I would most def not assume he would take it as the default unless you two had specifically discussed it and you know you are on the same page. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 p.s. I was a little taken aback by the idea that asking permission of the parents for engagement would be the assumed default. "back in the day" I think it was more common in the west, but it is seen as a little more old fashioned now. So I would most def not assume he would take it as the default unless you two had specifically discussed it and you know you are on the same page. I agree I was a little surprised also. I got married 21 years ago and people didn't even ask then. I know my husband never asked my parents. Link to comment
azadeh Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 It's just amusing to me that a lot of people seem to think, after three years of dating, that we haven't talked about these things. I appreciate your insight, but my boyfriend and I have talked about all these issues extensively - religion, marriage, kids, etc. We've even been to counseling. So we're not just jumping into this. We're not planning to get engaged because we want to live together. We're just generally planning to start a life together. We both want to get married, so we both agree that this is the necessary next step. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I would not just assume people are trying to be snooty to you. Really they are just trying to be helpful. Around here it's kind of a weekly event for threads that say my relationship broke up due to religion. They are just trying to help you cover the bases. Link to comment
azadeh Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yeah, I understand. And I appreciate it. I really do. I don't know what's gotten into me. Maybe forums are not for me, haha. It does sorta feel like people you don't know are openly judging your relationship. And I know everyone's just trying to help. I guess I'm just not used to it. Link to comment
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