Considering Breaking My Second Engagement - Need Advice!

[Demoncracy]

Hello,

 

I am considering breaking my second engagement in two years. Yes, you read that right. Two different girls, in two years. Here is a little background on the situation at hand.

 

The first engagement that I had was a full on mistake, I realized that early. The second time around, it felt different. Everything was different. I met this girl at a Starbucks late last October, and like a movie, I gave her my number and asked her out. We went on an amazing date shortly after and plenty of others in the weeks to follow. We fell for each other immediately. On New Years, I took her on a trip to Chicago and proposed to her. She said "Yes", although shocked at first because of how quickly I had done so. As 2014 has progressed, that honeymoon glow has faded but this often signifies when real life begins, where you tackle life's challenges together. We have tackled some major things, including dealing with Kidney Cancer with her in the early Summer (Thank God, she is okay and healthy now). After that, I thought we could tackle anything as a team together! I appear to have been wrong.

 

About a month ago, we moved into my parent's spare room (the first time we have lived together, or that I have lived with a girl). Since, we have had a number of tiffs that didn't exist before, in particular about money. We are both grad students, I work part-time at a local coffee house, and she currently doesn't work. I am very budget oriented, and look at the long term, especially in regards to the use of student loans and debt. I am insistent on having as little debt as possible, and using our loan money sparingly, if at all. My fiancee on the other hand, is the polar opposite. As a part of student loans, the government gives you money to spend on "room and board", basically the money that isn't used for tuition. She uses the $6000 "extra money" (as she calls it), to pay for trips to the mall, Target and other menial expenses. First off, this is against the terms of the loan. Second, she is burying herself in debt that WE will eventually have to pay off WITH 6.0% interest. Third, she doesn't know how much of that money she has left. Fourth, she wants me to use MY "extra money" to pay for our own place in the coming weeks and months, because she is uncomfortable at my parents place . She is already in the hole from our undergraduate stint, and if this type of spending of that "extra money" continues, we will be in debt between $125,000-$150,000 out of graduate school.

 

For the concern of our future, I approached her on this issue with a plan. I mentioned that we should work and save up money over the next six months at home, pay off her medical bills (she owes $3000 on that), give back the majority of our room and board money to save on interest and further debt. That way, we can start off in June (Wedding Date is 6/20/15) on a good foot. The talk didn't go as I planned. She got very upset with me, and thought what I had outlined was "ridiculous" and she claimed "we will be here (my parent's place) forever because you don't want to move!". I explained that "it isn't that I don't want us to be out on our own, its the fact that we can't afford it". With her not working, and me part-time with a heavy school load, there is no way. She mentioned that we can "live off our loan money like everyone else", but this isn't an option because of the high amount of debt we will have on our shoulders. I am looking out for our future while she is looking at the short term.

 

Anyway, we have battled on this issue a number of times, often with her giving me the silent treatment or walking out on me without conclusion. She believes that I come off as talking down to her on the issue, but in reality I'm just concerned and wanting to have a mature conversation about it. I have crunched the numbers, come up with a plan, and she is unwilling to sit down at the table with me. I have explained this to her, and she shrugs me away. This is where I get to the point of the forum post (thank you for reading this far). I am extremely concerned that this could be how talks about money or other important issues go down the road. She has brought up this concern to me as well, but in sassy tone "Are we going to have to evaluate money like before we get house, have kids, and stuff like that?". Of course we will. We certainly don't see eye-to-eye on how to manage money, and it is something all married couples have to discuss. Should I be as concerned as I am? Is there anything else I can do?

 

Also, there are a couple of other things that have had me worried over the past month. First, she lied to me about having a payment plan on her medical bills. When I asked to see how much the payments were, she said "I can't because I'm not making any". Talk about pit-in-your-stomach red flag. Second, we differ in organizational skills. In other words, I'm clean and she is messy. Third, I've found we don't appear to share many interests like we once did. I love sports and video games, she despises them. So, when I want to watch or play games, she makes me feel bad about it. Also, when I want to watch a movie together, it has to be "happy" or else she is on her phone the entire time. Fourth, she needs to have her Friends DVDs on all night to get to sleep. If I turn off the TV, she gets upset. I've had to resort to earplugs and an eye mask every night for the last month. This is more of an inconvenience than a problem, but the idea of having to sleep like that for the rest of my life, scares the crap out of me. I don't want to hear "I'll Be There For You" on a loop for eternity. Fifth, she wants to have kids and a house WITHIN the next five years. I've gone back and forth on this. On one side, it sounds amazing. On the other, I don't even have a career yet (I want to get my PhD so I can teach at the university level, which is at least seven years away). I've come to the conclusion that between the next five to ten years sounds good, she does not agree.

 

Over the last month, I've come to a saddening and harsh realization - I might have to break my second engagement in two years. This is a full on embarrassment for me. Once again, I probably jumped in too soon without thinking things through. I question if these problems between us will fade, or last a life time. I ask myself if I love ALL of her, but I am believing more and more that I only love parts of her. I love her spunky personality, the way she laughs, and how she is my best friend, but the issues I listed above are bleeding through more and more. I feel like if I were to marry her, I should be in love with ALL of her.

 

Now I turn it to you - what is your advice, comments and questions? Thank you immensely for reading out this rant. Its hard to discuss this with others, because we live in the same room, so it was much needed to get all this out in writing.

[mhowe]

Yes ---- the honeymoon phase is over and you both have completely different ideas and values when it comes to money, entertainment, debt, etc.

 

So --- break the engagement, and in fact, break up.

 

And you should really examine why you are rushing into these engagements without getting to know the person. Time for you to focus on your education, and becoming independent from your parents. Get an apartment, get going on your career, get your debt under control.

 

You cannot afford marriage, a house or a child. You are planning on grad school ---- and she is planning on spending your student loan money on crap.

[reinventmyself]

My exH and I had very different views on money. Much like you describe in your relationship. Attitudes about money can be very emotionally based. Depending on your upbringing and the value you attach to things can greatly shape these attitudes. The matrix runs very deep. Having said this I would advise not to get married until you two can learn to compromise on this issue.

 

Sex and money are the two things that couples argue over the most and ultimately tear a relationship down.

Don't underestimate this difference between the two of you.

 

On the other hand, there is always going to be `something' that creates a challenge in a relationship. It sounds like you have some nice things going for the 2 of you. One needs to chose their battles carefully.

 

I would continue to work at this and see if there isn't something each of you can compromise on. It's worth a try.

[Batya33]

I think you take some space from each other unless you want to go to couples counseling and have an impartial third party see if you can reach agreement on your different outlooks on finances (and deal with the Friends episode kind of stuff too).

[lavenderdove]

Run, don't walk away from this girl.

 

The problem isn't that you are breaking engagements, the problem is you are getting engaged after only knowing a person a couple months, then spending the engagement getting to realize they are the wrong person for you!

 

So yes, back peddle as quickly as you can. You need to break up with her (and quickly) and not sleep with her lest she get an accidental on purpose pregnancy to trap you. She has no clue about the realities of money, and doesn't want to get a clue. She just wants to spend money freely and let someone else be the adult and take care of reality. And the 'Friends' thing on an eternal loop... ummmm, no, just no! I had an ex-husband who was addicted to sports on TV, and couldn't go to sleep without a game on. I still remember in horror that squeak that basketball shoes make on the court as they run back and forth and the thump thump thump of the ball when I was trying to sleep.

 

The important point is it doesn't matter how many engagements you break if you are engaged to the WRONG person. Just do it. She'll pitch a fit, but it is far better than being yoked to a person who refuses to deal with money issues and seems to be really too immature to marrry. You'll be declaring bankruptcy before you know it married to someone like this (and you'll still be stuck with the student loans).

 

And if you're looking at 7 years to your PhD, i can guarantee she'll get pregnant and tell you you need to drop out of school and get a job to support her and pay off the student loans. And be demanding a house even though all those loans will prevent you from getting anything but a dump. And if she's not working now, she may well expect to get out of school and not work then either, just have her house and babies and expect for you to work to pay for it all.

 

btw, are you really sure she had kidney cancer and she's not making that up? Seriously, kidney cancer is some serious business and would require surgery, long courses of chemo, her hair falling out, and a heck of lot more money owed than $3K. She may not be able to produce any bills to show you because she didn't actually have cancer (maybe had something else, or just made it up?). I dated a guy who lied about having cancer to cover for some pretty shady stuff and because it bought him a lot of sympathy and freedom since no one questions such a thing and lets them get away with murder if they are supposedly ill. He was using it as an excuse to take all kinds of time off work and get a 'light load' there, and when he was supposedly getting treatment or 'too sick' to work or see me, he was goofing off playing golf and fishing AND dating other women and who knows what else. He put on a good show though and had everyone convinced he was going thru a rough round of chemo and constant doctor's visits until it eventually became clear he was just faking it.

 

And next time you start dating, wait at least 2 years before you issue a proposal to anyone, until you are really really sure the person is right for you. You absolutely cannot really know a person after 2 months and whether they are a good prospect for marriage, no matter how hot to trot you are at the time. So next time look before you leap. And for now, disentangle yourself from a really bad situation/engagement, and quick. And you might postpoe on the idea of getting married until you finish your schooling, or find a woman who is on exactly the same page that your schooling takes priority over trying to buy a house and have kids while you're in school and owe a truckload of money on student loans.

[Clinton]

Get your life in order first. And next time, how about dating the person for a few years before committing to marriage

[itsallgrand]

What mhowe said.

 

It's better to be embarrassed than to ruin your life. And you really could screw up your life big time by marrying her.

 

Is there any particular reason why you are in such a rush to put rings on the women you are dating fingers? ? Do you have a "no sex before marriage" clause or something? Or do you think you just tend to get carried away in the excitement and rush to future planning with women before getting to know them?

[icecreamaddict]

I think you rushed too quickly into the engagement. Break off the engagement or at the very least post pone the wedding. Seek some counseling to try to sort everything out!

[Demoncracy]

Thank you all for the responses, its helping me organize my thoughts immensely. It feels so good talking about it. I see potential for my future, and I get excited thinking about being "free" again, and this time for a good while. As some of you have said, it would be best to get my life in order first (get an apartment, focus on education, and so on) then settle down with someone. I just feel like an idiot for jumping in like this, and your're right... I should analyze WHY I've decided to go into engagements so soon.

__________________________

And the 'Friends' thing on an eternal loop... ummmm, no, just no! I had an ex-husband who was addicted to sports on TV, and couldn't go to sleep without a game on. I still remember in horror that squeak that basketball shoes make on the court as they run back and forth and the thump thump thump of the ball when I was trying to sleep.

 

btw, are you really sure she had kidney cancer and she's not making that up? .

 

On the first point, I'm really glad I'm not alone with this. I need the TV off to sleep, like most people I believe. As for the cancer, sadly she did have it. I was in the hospital with her everyday. I actually pay for her health insurance, which is a basic plan which is why she owes only 3k on what was easily a 75k procedure.

__________________________

 

As for going forward with this, how do I approach her and what can I expect? She lives with me, which is different experience than my first engagement.

[mhowe]

You tell her that you do not see this going forward, that you are sorry and that see needs to look for an apartment ---- and set a time limit.

[Demoncracy]

Is there any particular reason why you are in such a rush to put rings on the women you are dating fingers? ? Do you have a "no sex before marriage" clause or something? Or do you think you just tend to get carried away in the excitement and rush to future planning with women before getting to know them?

 

I don't have a "no sex before marriage" belief. Its getting too carried away. I'm a big romantic, and sometimes I go overboard. You'd think that after the first one, I would learn my lesson, but for some reason she made me forget everyone before her. Now, here I am, crashing hard from my high... again.

[itsallgrand]

Ok, and you obviously are an intelligent person. Who has this particular weakness when it comes to women and relationships. Maybe a little embarrassing, but nothing all that bad compared to the kinds of mistakes you could be making that could really mess up yours and others lives.

 

I agree again with what mhowe said as far as if/when you decide to break this off.

 

Also sorry you are hurting about this.

[lavenderdove]

The sooner you tell her the better... before she blows all her 'extra' student loan money on frivolous things... she needs to find a place to live, and start picking up her own health insurance tab rather than you paying for it.

 

btw, it says something about her character too if she owes $3K on medical expenses, and instead she is blowing whatever extra she has on student loans on Target or whatever rather than paying off her bills first. People who are dishonest on things like that, will be dishonest on larger things. And she's already lied to you in order to keep up her spending habits and not pay her bills, so you know she's a liar.

 

Be prepared for lots of drama when you tell her it is over. I suspect you will have to set a date by which she needs to get out, and may need to find her another place to live and put down the first month's rent if necessary for her to get her out (unless you know she will go to a friend or relative). People who have a meal ticket and are irresponsible can be really hard to get out of your life if you don't make arrangement to put them out of it (since they will just drag their feet and make no attempt to take responsbility for themselves).

 

Be extra careful and don't sleep with her once you've dropped the bomb that it is over. I've known many cases where people are trying to get out of a relationship or break it off and slip and sleep together, where the woman did it on purpose to get a pregnancy to try to hold onto the guy or force his hand.

[Demoncracy]

Lavenderdove, you are absolutely right about the paying of the medical bills off first. I brought that up to her. If anything, use the loan money to get those medical bills off her back. She insists on making minimum payments at $20 on a payment plan that doesn't exist.

 

I've noticed something else in the last few weeks. I believe she may be rethinking things as well. She doesn't share much with me about life, I often have to ask. It might be the walking on egg shells climate that is around us right now, or it could be a lack of interest in me and us. Actually, I'm surprised she has been so angry with me on my financial responsibility. I thought she would love and respect that. Why doesn't she? That is what I keep asking myself.

[mhowe]

Because she wants to spend the money NOW.

[Snny]

I work (right now long term subbing) and go to school full time, and have a learning disability. You work and go to school at the same time. There is absolutely NO reason why she can't work. Your girlfriend is a sorry excuse for laziness. That's a huge sign she needs to go.

 

I hear you about the TV- my fiancé is a sports junkie and loves his ESPN right when he goes to bed. It's why I have prohibited having a TV in our bedroom.

 

Yep, you rushed the proposal. Please take a few years to date someone before proposing marriage.

[Demoncracy]

I'm wondering if there is any hope left, or if I should just set sail. I guess, as I've read on other posts, if there is any doubt at all, I shouldnt go through with it. I'm nervous to sit down and talk to her about it, because I know her heart (and mine to a certain extent) will be broken.

[mhowe]

Please reread your first post. If you remain with her, the ship will sink.

[Demoncracy]

Please reread your first post. If you remain with her, the ship will sink.

 

Thank you Mhowe and everyone. Any further advice on how/when to approach her?

[Ms Darcy]

I think you should just be honest. Say you rushed the proposal before you really knew each other and that you are very sorry. You have given it a lot of thought, your feelings have change, and you have decided that you need to break up.

 

That's what I would suggest.

[offplanet]

Whatever way you do it, just do it (break up). I couldn't bear to think of you getting bogged down in her astronomical debts.

[mercedes79]

You could always put the engagement on hold and or break it off but still date? It sounds like you two have something there or you wouldn't be saying how sad you both will be. Just explain that it scrated you that you jumped into something before you guys even learned who you are as a couple.

[Snny]

You could always put the engagement on hold and or break it off but still date? It sounds like you two have something there or you wouldn't be saying how sad you both will be.

Honestly... Who would be willing to continue dating when an engagement was broken off? If you break an engagement, be very prepared to lose the relationship. Postponing it... Are you even sure you want to?

 

The issue is the OP's girlfriend needs to grow up and be financially responsible. She abuses the financial aid and taxpayer system. She doesn't manage her money properly. She is FREE LOADING off the OP and his family by living there RENT FREE while spending her tuition/book loan money on extravagant shopping trips. And she also doesn't respect him by staying up, watching TV late at night while he needs sleep to go to work and class the next day. F that, she is an extremely ungrateful, selfish pig. If I were him, I would be very pissed off by the way his girlfriend would treat me and my family. In fact I wouldn't stand for it and be continued to be taken advantage of.

 

She needs to prove it to the OP that she can handle her business and be an adult. She needs to get off her fat ass and get a job. You do NOT want to marry a person who is an impulsive buyer, is unemployed with ZERO ambition to find a job, and cannot manage money. WAKE UP, OP. She isn't going to pay back her student loans,; you are. You will end up doing it when you married her since she hasn't even started on them. Just as Clinton mention, this behavior spells out a divorce in the near future.

[lavenderdove]

>> I thought she would love and respect that. Why doesn't she?

 

Because she gets no enjoyment out of being responsible and 'future' planning. She is selfish and wants to live in the moment and have instant gratification. And it is 'easy money' from the govt. to get loans which enable her not have to work (which is more fun than working), so she'll just soak up the funds without a thought for as much money as they will lend her, for as long as they'll lend it.

 

I work for a university and we put a lot of effort into weeding out students who are just in school because they've learned they can get enough on federal student loans above the tuition amount (that 'extra' money your GF loves to spend) such that they don't have to work. It's amazing the different scams that people will go into to try to get that loan money and keep it coming. And it is amazing how abusive and freaked out they get when they get told their loans aren't going to be approved (or disbursed) because they are failing classes, not attending classes, registering for classes to activate the loan, then dropping the classes and demanding a refund as soon as the loan is disbursed, then repeating that again the next semester, switching majors too many times to try to extend the years in school to keep the 'free' money coming etc. So it is all about keeping that 'free' money (in their minds 'free') coming for as much as possible for as long as possible. They give no thought at all to how they will pay off the loans in future, because they only want to live in the now and not work and get instant gratification and let someone else pick up the tab.

 

I took student loans when i was in school, but i also worked part time the whole time I was in school. And I never took the max they would offer, just however much it took to cover my tuition and bills and pay for a very modest place to live (at one point sharing a place with 3 girls sleeping in one room). And I paid every bit of those loans off and was grateful to have them. I did not spend money frivolously while in school, in fact I don't think I bought one piece of new clothing the entire time I was in school and used the loan money only for school, food, and a very cramped roof over my head. Your GF however has other desires for that money, like not having to work, moving into a nice place, and obviously is giving no thought as to how that money will be paid off if she's talking about owning a home and having kids in the next few years, all while you are supposed to still be in school and finishing your own education.

 

So your fiance wants a free ride. And she'll be shifting from a free ride from the govt. to a free ride from you if you let her. And dump massive student loans into your marriage that she has no intention of working off because she wants to be at home playing house with babies while you shoulder the load.

 

What you tell her is this: 'I'm sorry, but we really leaped into this engagement without really thinking. And though we had fun, we have a totally different approach to life and how to manage money that will cause too much friction and just not work out in the long run. And now that we're living together, all we do is fight, so that is a sign that we are just not compatible and it is time to let go and move on. I also don't see a home and kids in the future for a very very long time, until after the next 7 years when i finish my Ph.D., which is my top priority now rather than buying a home and making babies, so you just wouldn't be happy married to me, nor me to you. So I'm sorry, I can't marry you, and it is time to break up and get on with our lives. Now, do you want me to help you look for another place to live?

 

Then you shift into the practicalities of getting her out of your parent's house. Enlist your parent's help if you need to, and as a last resort if she won't get out, then you rent a storage locker, change the locks on your house, and move her stuff into the locker and send her the key.

[itsallgrand]

Yes, a woman with compatible values will love and respect that.

 

Her values are different. She can't appreciate it, and it's annoying to her, because it gets in the way of her getting what she wants NOW. As others have said.