Lessons learned - thanks ENA

[notalady]

Hi all, I used to adopt a "go with the flow" dating model, which I understand many do. That has changed since I started frequenting ENA. I'm not asking for advice but a recent dating experience made me realise how much I've learned from ENA and how it's made me more aware and smart in dating.

 

I went on six dates with a guy over the period of a month. I actually quite liked him and his sense of humour and personality seemed to mesh well with mine. Not that I sleep with guys this early in dating normally but being on ENA had made me even more aware and adamant of the benefits of really taking the time to get to know them better and getting exclusivity before jumping in the sack.

 

So in this particular case, obviously no sex after six dates (not for the lack of him trying and me politely declining), I got the impression that he's a pretty ambitious guy, and would put career before family, which is not a big issue if his career goal doesn't clash with family obligation. So on the most recent date, I decided to ask about his career goals and it turns out his job will have him rotate every two years, and it will probably be in a different city. If family doesn't want to move with him, he can just come back to visit every few weeks. He said he would also go overseas if work asks him to, probably for 6 months periods (that one probably will be with one or two visits only). None of this suits my relationship and career goal, so I ended it with him. In the past, I may not be thinking so critically of the issue and may not have even asked the question in the first place. Thanks to ENA, I have really made sure I'm not too emotionally invested in the early stages of dating and take it as a serious opportunity to get to know as much about the guy as I can and find out things that may affect my decisions (deal breakers, red flags etc) before it's too late.

 

The discussion that followed was interesting too, the guy was obviously disappointed and didn't seem to understand why I needed to address an issue that wasn't immediate. But I made it clear that if I already know it will be a problem down the road, I wouldn't want to stay to see it being realised, at which point I would be stuck between rock and a hard place - ie compromise on my own life goals or throw away a LTR that I spent a year or two on. He suggested that in a year or two, family and kids could be a real possibility and that would be a game changer. I said oh does that mean that would change your decision about rotating or going overseas then? He said no. And I said exactly. There was a bit more discussion after that and it was only after we hung up the phone I realised he seemed to be talking about it being a "game changer" for me, that is, he seemed to expect my life goals would change to suit him and I would be, I assume, a stay home mum and follow him around. If that's the case, we have way more incompatible values and the idea of male & female roles in a relationship than just the difference in life/career goals!

 

Anyhow, though I had no luck in meeting LTR potentials lately, I'm pretty happy to be able to pick up deal breakers relatively quickly and end things painlessly. Thanks ENA, I shall keep working on it!

[Iggy5129]

I know what you mean. ENA has helped me to be so much better at breakups. I no longer feel completely hopeless and act pathetic after getting dumped. I am able to move on so much faster too.

[lostandhurt]

Smart!

 

There is so much to learn if we just put aside preconceived ideas and open our minds to new ways of looking at things.

 

Lost

[Cheetarah]

I've learned to rely on my spidey senses more. I'm starting to trust my judgment again and really, my judgement wasn't so skewed to begin with - I just ignored things and waved them off as no biggie. Now, I listen to it. And that's not just in dating relationships but family, friends, every day situations.

[notalady]

I've learned to rely on my spidey senses more. I'm starting to trust my judgment again and really, my judgement wasn't so skewed to begin with - I just ignored things and waved them off as no biggie. Now, I listen to it. And that's not just in dating relationships but family, friends, every day situations.

 

That is so true. I found once I started noticing and observing the little things and trusting my gut feel, 99% of the time it turns out to be right. It amazes even myself sometimes

[lostandhurt]

Easy ladies on the spidey senses. Guys get nervous and do dumb stuff on dates. Just please make sure you cut them some slack if they mess up a little.

 

Of course if they are a big D-Bag then cut them loose as soon as possible.

 

There is something to be said about trusting your gut, it is right almost all the time but we seem to ignore it far to often.

 

Lost

[notalady]

Easy ladies on the spidey senses. Guys get nervous and do dumb stuff on dates. Just please make sure you cut them some slack if they mess up a little.

 

Of course if they are a big D-Bag then cut them loose as soon as possible.

 

There is something to be said about trusting your gut, it is right almost all the time but we seem to ignore it far to often.

 

Lost

 

Haha..I agree, I wouldn't take the actions from one date to be indicating a trend, that is not enough data, statistically speaking I would stick around for 3-6 dates generally, if I am interested, but see something potentially negative, and use it to gather more data to come to a conclusion. If that's still not enough data (which generally doesn't happen), I will proceed with caution but stick around as long as I'm interested and view them as "innocent until proven guilty" for the lack of a better term haha...

 

of course, unless the guy is clearly a d bag or jerk or we don't even hit it off on the first date or two, then no worries cutting them off early.

[DancingFool]

Easy ladies on the spidey senses. Guys get nervous and do dumb stuff on dates. Just please make sure you cut them some slack if they mess up a little.

 

Of course if they are a big D-Bag then cut them loose as soon as possible.

 

There is something to be said about trusting your gut, it is right almost all the time but we seem to ignore it far to often.

 

Lost

 

It's never about little mistakes and it's pretty easy to tell that the guy is fumbling because he really likes you and is a nervous wreck. It's actually kind of cute and endearing. Having said that, OP's post is the perfect example of stopping things for serious reasons early on, before she is invested and has wasted a year or two of her life only to have to dump him over major incompatibilities. Kudos to her for noticing and asking and taking action accordingly early on.

 

I've certainly run into my fair share of guys like that. There is a huge deal breaker that he is dismissing with the "oh but it won't be an issue later on" and by that he means, "it won't be an issue because she is invested in this relationship, she will just have to adjust to what I want, need, and how I see things." Mmmmm....yeah....perfect recipe for disaster. I don't know if women think like that since I don't date them, but it always fascinates me just how many men have that attitude.

[Rosti87]

I agree with the OP about ENA. I learn from both the positive and negative postings. I have also learned that the concepts of dating have not changed much since I last dated ## years ago. Just the vehicles of dating have changed.

 

To the OP:

 

Good on you to screening out this guy based upon your core values. Very important. Cheers.

[IAmFCA]

Nice work OP!

 

I agree, ENA is like a self-study in human dynamics. My mind has been broadened to understand diverse ways of thinking and I have become less ignorant about my own emotional landscape.

 

Some things I have learned here I wonder how anyone would learn anywhere else.

 

Notalady, Your recent experience reminds me of a bf in my 20s who told me that in the summers, he expected his wife to live at the summer house some 10 hours away, and he would go stay for two weeks but would otherwise be working.

 

He was shocked that I found that disagreeable. He would be giving her and their kids a fabulous summer! It made no sense to him that I would want to be with him and would rather us all be in the city than split up like that. Different folks, different strokes.

[reinventmyself]

. . a little slow on the uptake this morning. .what is ENA ?

[FlashEng1]

. . a little slow on the uptake this morning. .what is ENA ?

 

eNotAlone. The forums (and website) you are currently posting on

[reinventmyself]

eNotAlone. The forums (and website) you are currently posting on

 

ohhh duh. . .ok thx

[t1lersm0m1]

This times 1000! I ignored my instincts, which made me feel super insecure. I knew something was off, but kept pushing it to the back of my head. Fighting with instincts is counter productive. I've learned to listen to them.

 

I've learned to rely on my spidey senses more. I'm starting to trust my judgment again and really, my judgement wasn't so skewed to begin with - I just ignored things and waved them off as no biggie. Now, I listen to it. And that's not just in dating relationships but family, friends, every day situations.

[reinventmyself]

I still do this. .but not to the same degree.

Rush into something, like the attention despite the red flags.

"La, la, la, la hands over ears. .I don't want to hear it"

But I come to my senses. . at least a lot sooner then previously.

Heck I married it once.

" I ignored my instincts, which made me feel super insecure. "

 

this is so true. .when it feels right the insecurity factor is absent.

Something I am learning here is that I can give decent advise at times that I wouldn't otherwise act on myself.

Putting in writing for someone else makes is definitely more accountable for myself.

[Ms Darcy]

... the guy was obviously disappointed and didn't seem to understand why I needed to address an issue that wasn't immediate. But I made it clear that if I already know it will be a problem down the road, I wouldn't want to stay to see it being realised, at which point I would be stuck between rock and a hard place - ie compromise on my own life goals or throw away a LTR that I spent a year or two on.

 

He suggested that in a year or two, family and kids could be a real possibility and that would be a game changer. I said oh does that mean that would change your decision about rotating or going overseas then? He said no. And I said exactly.

 

Wow girl! Good for you!!! Very very very good.

 

You did everything you needed to do. Not one sour note.

 

I'll point out, I think he tried to dangle a carrot out there for you ... which women who are more desperate for companionship would have ran after. Basically, he was thinking in the present (keep dating, be my companion, enjoy some sex) and not really thinking about the future. Because frankly pleasure in the present can be more fun than anticipating the future.

 

Well done for avoiding that drama.

[MikNomis]

This is actually a success story.

[t1lersm0m1]

This are much clearer from the outside, looking in.

 

reinventmyself;6133908Something I am learning here is that I can give decent advise at times that I wouldn't otherwise act on myself.

Putting in writing for someone else makes is definitely more accountable for myself.

[notalady]

There is a huge deal breaker that he is dismissing with the "oh but it won't be an issue later on" and by that he means, "it won't be an issue because she is invested in this relationship, she will just have to adjust to what I want, need, and how I see things." Mmmmm....yeah....perfect recipe for disaster. I don't know if women think like that since I don't date them, but it always fascinates me just how many men have that attitude.

 

That is exactly what my interpretation of what he said lol..the female friends, even a male friend, I spoke to thought exactly the same as me, that it would be a rough situation for a woman to be in, especially if you go on to have kids (and be left all alone with the kids because your partner can't be there to help) and completely understand that I didn't want to be in such a situation, I can't believe he doesn't see it as a problem. Either he is really short sighted or just trying to convince me to be short sighted lol..

[notalady]

Wow girl! Good for you!!! Very very very good.

 

You did everything you needed to do. Not one sour note.

 

I'll point out, I think he tried to dangle a carrot out there for you ... which women who are more desperate for companionship would have ran after. Basically, he was thinking in the present (keep dating, be my companion, enjoy some sex) and not really thinking about the future. Because frankly pleasure in the present can be more fun than anticipating the future.

 

Well done for avoiding that drama.

 

Thank you, and everyone, for your words of encouragement! I actually feel really good about this

I agree, he could be dangling a carrot. And yes he is thinking only in the present, even saying oh but I'll still be based here for at least the next year etc. I was like but that doesn't matter, you'll leave at some point. He said himself it's not a matter of if but when. If he can't think about down the track like most rational mature human beings do, and look at only the present, then that would be yet another incompatibility for me.

[SoulTaker]

You're a savvy dater, so I'm surprised that you didn't bring up his job situation during the 1st, or 2nd date. If you did, then he must have lied, or purposely left out that part of his job description (mobile career).

 

Was that the case? If yes, and he indicated that he's looking long term, then that's a deal breaker on the spot.

[notalady]

We both talked about our jobs at different times during the first three dates, he didn't say anything about having to rotate or intending to take up opportunities to go overseas.

 

It was only when asked about his career aspirations on the last date (which I'm sure we can agree that not everyone talk about this early in dating?) that he mentioned this, and was very adamant that this is his plan and nothing will change it, and that relationships and family just have to work around it. So instant deal breaker.

 

To give him some credit, during the phone conversation where I broke it off, he did say "should I have brought this up earlier? Should I be bringing it up on the first date in the future?" He appears to genuinely not see it as a deal breaker, which puzzles me but to each their own.

[SoulTaker]

We both talked about our jobs at different times during the first three dates, he didn't say anything about having to rotate or intending to take up opportunities to go overseas.

 

It was only when asked about his career aspirations on the last date (which I'm sure we can agree that not everyone talk about this early in dating?) that he mentioned this, and was very adamant that this is his plan and nothing will change it, and that relationships and family just have to work around it. So instant deal breaker.

 

To give him some credit, during the phone conversation where I broke it off, he did say "should I have brought this up earlier? Should I be bringing it up on the first date in the future?" He appears to genuinely not see it as a deal breaker, which puzzles me but to each their own.

 

Sorry, but he comes accross as a manipulative person. This probably isn't the only thing that he's lied about, or deliberately left out.

 

There were probably warning signs before then. Those types can act genuinely surprised when they've been had. As for bringing it up (career/mobility) on a 1st date, I guess it's reached a point where it now needs to be part of the evaluation.

[Man with Dog]

Apart from some guidance on some of my own issues, I amazed at the sheer diversity of opinions here. One thing I have definitely learned is that we can give our opinions but it isn't for us to actually tell people what to do. It has to be their own decision, based on what we advise.

 

It seems that there are some recurring themes (apart from the expected ones like break-ups and cheating):

 

1. Contact with exes: Many people seem to remain friends with exes. I thought it was a "generation" issue but my daughter is on the same page as me in not wanting to remain in contact with exes

2. Social media: Never had it before I married, so it has never been an issue but there seems to be a lot of disagreement on how much time partners spend on it and who they are talking to

3. My partner doesn't respond to my texts: Some people just don't "do" texts. They might actually do some work while at their place of employment

[notalady]

Sorry, but he comes accross as a manipulative person. This probably isn't the only thing that he's lied about, or deliberately left out.

 

There were probably warning signs before then. Those types can act genuinely surprised when they've been had. As for bringing it up (career/mobility) on a 1st date, I guess it's reached a point where it now needs to be part of the evaluation.

 

You are actually spot on about the manipulation. I did suspect that when on the fourth and the most recent (sixth) date he used excuses to get me back to his place (e.g. forgetting to bring something) when we were meant to be going out somewhere, then insisted on staying for tea for example, even though I said no thanks. Then after a bit, tried to put the moves on me, which I quickly shut down by saying I'm not ready for that, and he left it alone. The fourth date could have been seen as a genuine mistake, it was not enough for me to draw conclusion at the time, but after it happened for a second time, there was no doubt about it.

 

I don't blame a guy for wanting to sleep with me but the way he did it was manipulative, creating the perfect set up for it to "just happen naturally", but anyone with half a brain knows exactly what's up. It doesn't "just happen", he had set it up. That obviously didn't sit well with me. Plus the career conversation during the same night. More than enough reason to drop him.

 

I guess I still have a lot more to learn about reading people. I haven't encountered many manipulative people (or they are just really good that I didn't realise lol). With this guy, it was all done pretty subtly until you really think about it after. And typing it out here also helps.

 

And the career thing, yes after encountering two guys who are "on the move", I guess it is a subject I now have to suss out quickly on the first date or two!