Fat girl.

[hers]

I think y'all are right. Maybe it makes a difference to make good food and to make all food good.

 

I had just one slice of cheese pizza with pineapple and almonds and one garlic knot and I brought an apple with me so I ate that instead of eating another garlic knot.

[Firiel]

Speaking of emotions and eating, I really like this article: link removed

 

I like a lot of her stuff, actually. She talks a lot about the culture of shame around food actually fostering unhealthy eating habits. For instance, thinking of pizza as a "cheat" food makes it feel like something you might not have the opportunity to have for a long time. Thus, it is really hard to eat only one piece. If there wasn't that idea that pizza is "bad," then it would be easier to just eat one piece with the idea that you can come back later that week and have it again if you want.

 

Her overall goal is not to help her clients lose weight, but rather to help them get into a mindset where they have a healthy relationship with food and are able to eat what they want and what makes them feel good (as in, physically good-- energetic and satisfied) with the belief that, ultimately, people LIKE feeling healthy and that if they have a good relationship with food, their eating habits will lead them to what makes them feel healthy. So you'd have to keep in mind that her advice isn't weight loss advice, but I think it's still good stuff.

[petite]

It seems like your meals are pretty bland and kinda boring. Like some above mentioned grapes and edamame aren't a meals, they are snacks. It isn't so much about 'diet' food as it is about making 'smart' choices. So substituting white sugar for brown or maple syrup and agave, white bread for whole meal, chicken wings for chicken breast, baked instead of fried. And, keeping portions smaller.

 

There is nothing wrong with having a slice of pizza, but the way to feel satisfied is to enjoy that slice, it isn't going to keep you completely full (our slices here are smaller than those over there) so you can have salad with it.

For example I never eat pizza and fries, wedges or chicken wings, for me that's a heart attack waiting to happen, but depending on the type of pizza I often have a small portion of the pizza but have it with salad.

 

You can but Ezekiel bread, it's delicious and make homemade burgers, add lettuce, tomatoes, cucumber and carrots, on the side you can have some grapes.

If you get peckish have some almonds or trail-mix. I you bake chicken breast you can make wraps, load it with different types of greens, baby spinach, arugula, cucumber, carrots, really any veggies you like even roasted vegetables.

 

Lettuce tacos are also nice, or lettuce boats and even wraps. Sometimes you can make wraps with ham and cheese (use good cheese not the cheap fake stuff) slice some cucumber, maybe a boiled egg, mandarins, or some mango (half), watermelon. You have to explore different recipes.

 

I'm a big believer in making things from scratch whenever possible. We out out about 3-5 times a week and half of those dinners are usually some sort of business dinners or with friends, but no junk food or anything fattening. The rest of the time we cook, unless my husband has business lunches scheduled he takes lunch from home, and It is whatever we had for dinner, if we ate out he will have his overnight oats, tea, fruit, cherry tomatoes, cucumber, maybe a sandwich or a wrap.

 

It isn't important to not feel like you want to cry over food.

I know some people believe in the whole 'food is fuel' for our bides, and to a large degree I am in agreement, but it's also important to enjoy what you're eating, if you're miserable while having dinner or lunch, or if it tastes bland, boring and makes you sad, then something has to change.

[hers]

Oh my lunch today was mostly meant to hold me over since I'm having cake. I was trying to plan accordingly. I don't usually eat that as a meal. Those are normally snacks for me.

 

Most of my foods involve cheese (especially cream cheese) or breads or pastas. But I love veggies and fruits too. I also love desserts but typically all I ever feel like I "need" for dessert is just a bite of something. I'm usually pretty good about portion control with dessert but with breads and pastas, I want to eat it all. I just don't feel full until it's too late.

 

I posted this on my Facebook the other day and it's so me haha

 

image removed

[Fudgie]

It's really hard for many people (not just you) to control themselves when it comes to bread/pastas. Of the people I know who have lost a good amount of weight and have kept it off (surgery and without surgery), honestly, they forgo most bread and pasta. Neither are a common food for them to eat.

 

Of course, you need some coimplex carbohydrates and you don't have to give it all up forever but yeah, in my experience from what I've seen, if you want to lose weight and keep it off, the bread and pasta needs to largely go.

 

I used to love bread especially but I have since given it up (mostly by choice but partly not my choice, just don't tolerate it as well as I used to) and I can't tell you how much better I feel.

[faraday]

If I have to give up bread to be skinny, I'll be fat and smiling while I'm eating pizza.

 

Breads are calorie dense. It makes sense to give it up...Along with pop, juice, ice cream, eating in restaurants, chips, beer....and you know what? All my naturally skinny friends eat all that stuff....they just don't eat 5 pieces of pizza in a sitting (well, my bf does but he walks 20 kind a day). I really do think it's about moderation. I mean, we'll see- surgery isn't an option for me yet, and cutting out bread would be cutting out two food groups for me....which is too much....but everyone skinny that I know talks about moderation, not cutting out entire food groups :S

 

(Sorry, the paleo thing really strikes a nerve with me.)

[Fudgie]

Not everyone can do moderation when it comes to certain foods. Yes, there are many naturally skinny people out there who can moderate but many can't. If they could, there wouldn't be so many overweight people out there with failed diets. If breads/pastas are giving you trouble and you're finding that you can't moderate them even when you try (you can't eat them without craving them or eating way too much) then you need to cut *most* of it out. The answer is not "more moderation" when you clearly can't control yourself because if you could moderate - you would!

 

I know for me, I rarely eat bread now and I'm a lot better off for it. It's not 100% out of my diet but it's mostly out of my diet. Maybe I'll make a toad in the hole or have an odd piece of toast but it's nothing I crave. Maybe 2-3 pieces a week. Now, I can moderate but if I couldn't, I wouldn't eat it. It would be all gone.

 

When it comes to food/diet, it will always be hard, and you can't get away from that: You can either eat whatever/how much whatever you want and be fat and suffer the hard consequences of being fat (social stigma but more importantly, the health pitfalls) OR you can eat right and exercise and find it hard sometimes when you can't eat what you want/how much you want. That's just life!

 

That's the cold hard truth.

 

I think the sooner you learn to disassociate food from emotions, the better. It's a long road. I have worked hard because food can't and will never give me the same pleasure that it did before. Not to say that I'm not happy when I'm eating something good, but the association is much less. And that's what is key. Food should not be an activity within itself. If you truly feel that eating better food and being fat > than eating healthier food and being more lean, well, not an attitude that is conducive to long term weight loss. I've gotten to talk to others about this in support group a lot. You have to be willing to realize that you can't "have it all" and to some degree, you give up your comfortable relationship with food. You have to redefine it. And yeah, you can't eat yummy things all the time. You have redefine what is yummy. The people who I have seen lose a lot of weight and keep it off are able to do this.

 

I'm not talking about paleo at all. I don't eat paleo.

[browneyedgirl36]

It's hard to lose weight, especially if you think of it as a "diet" rather than a "lifestyle." In my teens, I lost about 20 pounds (a lot for someone with my frame), and I gained it all back almost immediately because in order to lose it, I had cut out ANY "fun foods" -- not so much as one M&M had passed my lips in six months. I was starving. I was miserable. In contrast...

 

I lost 25 pounds about a decade ago, and I've kept most of it off -- though I gain and lose the same 5 pounds every once in awhile -- by cutting portion sizes, exercising more rigorously (weight training AND cardio -- the weight training is super important, perhaps moreso than the cardio for fat loss/muscle gain) and avoiding buying certain foods (i.e. ice cream) that I know I will guzzle down in a couple sittings. This doesn't mean I don't EAT these foods ever, it just means I eat them OUT -- i.e. I buy an ice cream cone, or one bakery cookie or cupcake, and eat that, rather than baking a whole cake or batch of cookies and eating all of it. A few things that have worked for me:

 

*Cut down on breads/carbs -- this does not mean cut them OUT. Any drastic cutting of anything will make you miserable and is nearly impossible to maintain longterm. I cut way down on bread, potatoes, rice. Instead, I ate tortillas, whole grain-type breads and pasta, and brown rice or cous cous, etc. in moderation.

*Cut down on fatty dairy -- cheese (sorry!), milk, ice cream, etc. I still ate some cheese, but it was generally mozzarella or one of the lighter cheeses, often those individually-wrapped cheese stick snacks, which are taste AND portion controlled. I used almond or soy milk in cereal; stopped buying ice cream in pints/half-gallons.

*Increased "good" fats -- avocado, olive oil, nuts -- and decreased the bad -- mayonnaise, butter, etc. I still rarely eat mayo, and when I do, it's the lighter kind that has olive oil (and tastes delicious), and I eat Smart Balance (Trader Joe's butter substitute, which still has the calories but not the fat, especially not trans fat).

*Cut down on sugar. This was a hard one. I used to drink at least one 12-oz glass of orange juice a day (!) until I realized how many calories, and how much sugar, is in juice. You're better off eating the actual orange instead, which is what I now do. I also bought cereals with 7 grams of sugars or less per serving (there are some good ones out there) and began really paying attention to sugar content listed on the labels of my favorite foods.

*Portion size: This is the biggie. I used to joke that I could eat a grown man under the table, and it really wasn't all that far from the truth. Now, I generally eat my dinner off smaller (dessert) plates. This is a trick I learned from my mom. The dessert plate is full, but...it's a lot less than a full dinner plate, calories-wise. If I find that I'm still hungry a half hour after dinner, I might have something else, but I'm usually not.

*Healthy snacks: cheese sticks, fruit, a handful of nuts, a little hummus and raw veggies, a not-too-sugary granola bar, some apple slices with some peanut butter -- all good snacks that will fill you up.

 

A few other things:

 

**Very little fast food. I'm not a fast-food person at all to begin with; I didn't grow up eating it, and I honestly don't like it all that much. I will allow myself the occasional junky thing, like a couple pieces of pizza at a work potluck or a burrito from Chipotle or something (though I call it "linner" and eat it at about 2 p.m. and eat nothing else for the rest of the day.

 

**Very little restaurant food, in general. I know this is extremely hard; the vast majority of people I know eat out several times per week. I bring my lunch every day to work, and I only go out to eat for special occasions. I DO enjoy a good restaurant meal, but for me, it's a treat, and it has to be a good place -- no Applebees or Chilis or anything like that if I'm going to eat out because the food isn't worth all the calories. I actually find that I don't feel well after eating out at a restaurant most of the time, even if the food tasted good. I think my body has just gotten used to not having it.

 

I think it's great that you're trying to do this while you're still young. It's much harder as you get older. If you really do have an emotional attachment to food -- and I did (still do to some extent, but I've gotten a handle on it for the most part), you might consider reading a book called Women, Food, and God by Geneen Roth. No, it's not a religious-themed book (the "God" part is a bit deceptive). It really helped me to understand my relationship with food.

 

Lastly, frequent weigh-ins are a bad idea. I read stuff on here where posters are saying they weigh themselves almost every day -- yikes! Once a week is enough, and you really could go two weeks. Weight can fluctuate dramatically from one day to the next -- we're talking 2, 3, 4 pounds -- and weighing yourself every day, or even every other day, just causes anxiety and feelings of failure.

 

I am rooting for you! It sounds like you're heading in the right direction.

[Firiel]

Not everyone can do moderation when it comes to certain foods. Yes, there are many naturally skinny people out there who can moderate but many can't. If they could, there wouldn't be so many overweight people out there with failed diets. If breads/pastas are giving you trouble and you're finding that you can't moderate them even when you try (you can't eat them without craving them or eating way too much) then you need to cut *most* of it out. The answer is not "more moderation" when you clearly can't control yourself because if you could moderate - you would!

 

Be careful not to make an assumed connection between "naturally skinny people" and those who can/do moderate their diets.

 

What someone looks like is NOT a fool-proof indication of their eating habits or their relationship with food. Many large people eat moderate, reasonably healthy diets. I certainly don't try to moderate my carbs, but I'm still quite thin. Part of that is because I work out A LOT and part of that is because my body is naturally fueled well by carbs. I start feeling ill if I try to actively avoid them. But part of it is because my genetic make-up predisposes me to be thin. I'm thin (with a low body fat), and it's not because I said "no" to the second (or third) piece of pie yesterday. Because I likely didn't.

 

It's important to note that cutting out or almost cutting out large selections of food can work well for some people but can also lead to instances of overeating and shame in others.

[Cheetarah]

You know, I've read many times that craving carbs like pastas and breads indicate low serotonin levels. And that women primarily crave them heavily during PMS(I totally do). AND, serotonin levels are lower during PMS and the period.

[Fudgie]

I disagree that many large (I'm assuming you mean obese?) people eat moderate, reasonably healthy diets...at the very least, their diets are not healthy for them because they are still obese which is unhealthy. While some may not eat junk food or much of it at all, they may be overeating. You are an athlete and should be eating enough of carbs but for someone who isn't as active, they aren't needing them as much. They're basically just loading up on sugar. That's what a big pasta meal essentially is - sugar. Needed before a big race or something if you are an athlete but most people will just convert it into fat.

 

It's true that there is an genetic component, some are naturally thin, some aren't.

 

I'm not going to sugarcoat anything here. If you can't moderate - cut it out or lessen it to the point where you don't crave it. But most importantly, you need to disconnect the emotion from food or else you will fail. I only will advocate moderation for those who can do it. If you can't, you can't, and no amount of portion control or WW or whatever will solve the food issues until you address the emotional issues and that may mean cutting out that food if you simply can't handle it in your diet in a healthy way. But if you work on your emotional issues with food, then it won't be as big of a deal.

[Firiel]

I disagree that many large (I'm assuming you mean obese?) people eat moderate, reasonably healthy diets...at the very least, their diets are not healthy for them because they are still obese which is unhealthy. While some may not eat junk food or much of it at all, they may be overeating. You are an athlete and should be eating enough of carbs but for someone who isn't as active, they aren't needing them as much. They're basically just loading up on sugar. That's what a big pasta meal essentially is - sugar. Needed before a big race or something if you are an athlete but most people will just convert it into fat.

 

It's true that there is an genetic component, some are naturally thin, some aren't.

 

But... that's circular reasoning. "Obese people cannot be eating a moderate, healthy diet because they are still obese." Yes, there ARE obese people who eat well.

 

Anyway, research shows that exercise is more important to preventing issues typically related to obesity than losing weight (or even body fat) is: link removed

 

Not that I'm saying people shouldn't strive to be at a weight they feel good about or that people should just eat like crap because it doesn't matter. But yes, you can be healthy and fat. And you can be unhealthy and thin. And you can be unhealthy and fat. And you can be healthy and thin. And you can be anywhere in between.

[Fudgie]

Healthy and obese is an oxymoron and any doctor or nutritionist worth their salt will tell you so. Even if an obese person is not currently showing any comorbidities, they are a ticking time bomb and will soon.

 

But you don't have to take my word for it: link removed

 

"Healthy obesity" is just one of the many lies that people like to tell themselves to make themselves feel better. "Oh, I'm fat but I'm healthy". No, no you're not.

[hers]

I don't have a chance to respond to everyone, but I will say that since I've started tracking (and obviously being more conscious and thoughtful of what I'm eating), I'm eating less fast food (though I've eaten at places like Moe's and Panera and roly poly and Chipotle a couple time) and am eating more fruits as snacks rather than chips. I also haven't one soda since I've been tracking (4 weeks tomorrow) and I'm not craving it. I've noticed my cravings have started to change (I actually want fruit now!) but so far those breads and pastas haven't stopped tempting me. I love a good PB&J and bread with butter. But then I love anything with cream cheese and go for that if it's available (such as the nut and honey wrap from roly poly--holy crap I'm obsessed).

 

So obviously ice got work to do. I def don't think I've got this figured out and the struggle with my emotional dependence on food is and may always be my biggest struggle. But I'm trying. I just don't know if I'm even doing well at all.

[Fudgie]

You're already making strides, that's what counts. The fact that you want to tackle it means you are doing well right now. Many don't. For me, what has helped is reading self-help books that relate to food and eating. Most of mine relate to surgery so I can't recommend them but there are ones out there that deal exclusively with attacking emotional issues with food and redefining your relationship with food. You can find them and you like to read so I think you could benefit, you know.

 

They are difficult issues so reading is a good way to get started. If it gets uncomfortable, you can take a break and revisit later. Really, it's done wonders for me.

[Cheetarah]

You're doing awesome, hers.

 

No one just flawlessly turns their diet/lifestyle around and it's all like a second skin, second nature, etc.

 

I read about this one woman, she said she didn't hop right into diet mode because she knew she'd fail. It was foods she wasn't used to, etc. So instead, she started introducing the sorts of foods she would be eating into her meals, slowly. Like yeah, she'd have her pizza as normal but she'd have it with a side of steamed broccoli, or some romaine with carrot matchsticks. Then she'd add something else. Then she'd make her pizza portion smaller. So on and so on until the unhealthy stuff was minimal/erradicated and her body started craving these healthier options. So she never really struggled with that deprived feeling as it was all a gradual thing.

 

I love eating. I love to freaking eat, I really do. Before every meal, I eat a bowl of salad. In it, usually is romaine and spinach, shaved carrots, little red cabbage, some red peppers...And just enough dressing to add a little zing to it. A tablespoon or less. It fills me up just enough to where the smaller, healthier portions are perfect and satiate me. And I love love love salad. I never used to love it so much, but once I started eating it I really got to craving it all the time.

 

I make a lot of fruit popsicles, smoothie popsicles, etc. There are fun ways to cook the healthier options. I'm super heavy handed on herbs and spices, and very rarely do I add salt, if I do it's a tiny pinch. It really makes a huge difference in what looks like a boring dish.

[OptomisticGirl]

I think you are doing amazing M. Really, you have a lot more will power than I do.

 

You know I love to eat just like you. Food is a huge comfort for me. And we all have to get healthy in a way that means we can STICK with it. For me right now that means having no soda in the house. Yes sweet tea isn't any better but for me it's a mental thing. If I have soda in the house I can drink that without eating anything and when I drink it like that, It makes me want to eat (so I'm just not guzzling down sodas). I can't drink sweet tea unless I'm eating so if all I have is sweet tea or water to drink, I eat less and I end up having one glass of sweet tea a day vs. God, 7-8 of sodas. And once I can maintain that I then want to try to completely take sweet tea out. It may never happen, it may, but you have to do things that is going to make you stick with the healthy choices.

 

And I think you are making some great choices in doing that.

[faraday]

I don't think that you're understanding what I'm saying at all. I've been saying, the people that I know that are thin (meaning didn't ever gain a bunch of weight), know how to moderate. It's built into them.

 

Also, if you go to my fitness pal and check out the forums there, it's filled with people who started out fat, continued to eat cake, pop, ice cream, pizza everyday, but with proper portion sizes...and have lean, healthy bodies today. Because they moderate. You were talking about cutting out all of those foods because you have to like, suffer to be thin...and it's just not true. If you have to suffer, you won't make it...because then it's a diet and not a lifestyle change.

 

Also, whole grains are a food group. Harvard has whole grains listed as a huge part of their food guide that they publish...because they're good for us...in moderation. Like meat. Like dairy. Like fruit. Like fats. Everything in moderation. And if you can't moderate? Practice. A new habit takes 21 days to form. A smoker quits an average of 7 times before permanently quitting. Cutting 99% of the foods you love out of your diet so you can be skinny....will mean that when you get skinny, you eat everything that you missed...and gain back the weight. It's not sustainable. Practice eating less junk until you can.

[Fudgie]

faraday,

 

My point is that generally speaking, if people want to lose the weight and keep it off, they need to redefine their relationship with food and their emotions. The reason why they suffer without having x, y, z treats in their diets and feel like "I can't live without it" speaks of an emotional problem with food. If you redefine your relationship with food, you won't have to worry about suffering to stay thin because you will redefine what food means to you and your eating habits. Of course, you will have to tell yourself "no" sometimes but you won't be suffering.

 

You think that suffering = not having pizza. That means that you have an emotional relationship with food but if you solved that, you wouldn't feel that way.

 

It is true, you do have to severely limit certain foods. Most people, particularly as they age, can't eat crap everyday. Maybe once in a while but everyday, no way. It all adds up. To say otherwise = denial.

 

Life is hard: being fat is hard, restricting your intake and working on food emotional issues is hard...pick your "hard". You can't escape from "hard".

[faraday]

I do not think you understand me at all. And that is okay.

[Fudgie]

Yeah its fine. I've lost a ton of weight and have been keeping it off so I am just telling what works for me.

[faraday]

It's great that you lost it You had surgery though, it's a bit different.

[hers]

Feeling depressed tonight. Messed up dinner (had to go back and cook the chicken twice) and messe up my coworker' scale and didn't get the lunch full of bread I wanted so I'm feeling low about food today.

 

I still have 300 calories left so we are going to get a little frozen yogurt at that one local place I talked about before.

[faraday]

I find in life that Ice cream, wine, or coffee solve most problems

[Cheetarah]

Man...Faraday...I just got done eating bland, air popped unsalted popcorn. This thread isn't good for my willpower.