Is a woman's ''biological clock'' nothing but a myth afterall?

[Lonewing]

Originally Posted by Lonewing

 

There's the other pressure, one I know some family friends had to make. His wife basically one day sat him down and said, "children or divorce."

 

He made the right decision - two very bright kids, they're now post grads.

 

Why is that the right choice? Why isn't "I can't be with someone who'd extort me like that" the right choice?

 

I'm extremely suspicious of men who push the "biological clock" idea. I can understand why women would; maybe they've experienced it, or maybe they just felt strongly about having kids in general. But with men, there's usually a condescending tone to it: "Yeah, I know all the silly ideas society has about women doing whatever they want, but biology is a certain way, so you'll just have to accept it." I don't like being pressured into traditional stuff (especially when it's followed by the "That's just the way it naturally is!" argument), and I'm guessing a lot of women don't like it, either.

 

It's been the right choice because between the two of them, they have been great parents and I doubt either one of them would have been very much happy had they split up. You only see relationships like their's maybe once or twice in a lifetime, and if he had given that up over this matter, I don't think he'd be where he is now.

 

Men are lucky - we really don't have a biological clock, so I could imagine it's hard to grasp the idea that suddenly, halfway through our lifetime, we'd just "lose" an ability. It isn't even about the ability itself, but rather, losing the potential that is that ability that is the most profound statement. This IS just the way it is, though, and will be until we unlock the aging gene: women will experience the psychological effect of "the door closing," and it's a different impact on each and every one. Women were "forced" into the period, and I'm sure none of them liked that either, but this is a case where "that's just how it is" is the first piece of information needed to consider before taking appropraite action.

 

Biology remains the one cornerstone of our esitance that we have not yet been able to overcome socially, and until you or I have a period or carry a baby to term, I doubt the field will ever truly become level: women will always carry the brunt of this decision, be it deciding if, when, how, where, with whom,and why it happens. As far as the male goes, we're just along for the ride; if she wants us to be there to raise it, again, her choice once more...so in that regards, we're unlucky.

[Batya33]

Why the judgments of people who choose not to have children? I agree in this society there's a bias in favor of having children so for those people who have the courage to choose not to, I say more power to them and they too are acting in the best interests of children by being honest with themselves about what they want.

[lavenderdove]

I'm not going to get into the kids vs. no kids argument because that is so personal. But i can say that you need to recognize that circumstances and emotions/desires can change over time.

 

I went through a phase where i really wanted marriage and kids (in my early 20s) because i was hanging out with a crowd where lots were getting married at the time. Then when i saw them with kids and saw how tired they were and that it didn't 'improve' their lives, i went thru a phase where I was really career driven and not interested in kids at all. Then I went thru a phase where the career seemed like an exhausting chore. Then I started really really wanting kids again but was mature and neutral knowing that my life would be fine with them or without them.

 

I would argue again sterilization at an early age because you are not 100% sure (and can't be) that you won't change your mind. You can be a very different person in each decade of your life as your life unfolds. I found it interesting that i never wanted kids when i was with a guy that i wasn't totally in love with. But when i was totally in love it changed my mind because i could see the whole family and kids thing as being positive rather than restrictive. My impulse to not have kids was very tied to be dating someone who wasn't right for me, or being very interested in a different goal at the time.

 

So i would argue that there is plenty of really good birth control out there and you always have the option of the Plan B pill or abortion if you do get pregnant and decide you don't want it. But if you sterilize yourself and decide when you're 35 that you really want kids, you've done away with that option earlier in life when you were a different person. So leave that option open and get some good birth control going instead on the outside chance you might change your mind. You may still feel the same way in 10 or 20 years, or you may not. I tend to be a person who doesn't like to do anything that restricts my freedom to live my life as i choose, so i would never choose sterilization for that reason. And birth control isn't that hard, and is actually protective if you are dating and want to avoid an STD.

[buddha55]

I also think it's important to point out... I know many woman who get pregnant at 36. So, to hear a 26 year old say they don't want children, I don't think, "you don't know what you want"...what I am really thinking is, "A LOT changes in 10 years! 10!! that's a while. imagine how different your life will be"

 

sometimes I see myself with kids, and other times not at all. I don't want them at all in the moment, but I know people my age who are dying to have a baby. Different for all.

[Blue Spiral]

Men are lucky - we really don't have a biological clock, so I could imagine it's hard to grasp the idea that suddenly, halfway through our lifetime, we'd just "lose" an ability. It isn't even about the ability itself, but rather, losing the potential that is that ability that is the most profound statement. This IS just the way it is, though, and will be until we unlock the aging gene: women will experience the psychological effect of "the door closing," and it's a different impact on each and every one. Women were "forced" into the period, and I'm sure none of them liked that either, but this is a case where "that's just how it is" is the first piece of information needed to consider before taking appropraite action.

 

I think you misunderstood me. Obviously, women eventually lose the ability to get pregnant, so they need to make life-decisions before that happens--that isn't hard to grasp at all. What I'm saying is that I think the idea of the "biological clock" is exaggerated. I can buy psychological and cultural pressure, but biological pressure, with their bodies actually influencing them...I think that's overstated by people who think women should behave a certain way. There are a lot of "biological determinists" out there who say that, if you're a man/woman, young/old, whatever, you'll automatically want certain things or behave a certain way...while ignoring all the people that don't.

[Lonewing]

But that's just it. The biological pressure is menopause, and regardless of what we believe psychologically, culturally, or socially, that biological clock chimes midnight when this physical process occurs. It becomes a psychological factor because we as humans know that biological event Will occur, and we know if we want to have children, we have to get in under that window before it becomes very expensive or very improbable to successfully carry. The closer we get to that window - as with any deadline - that window becomes more real the closer it gets.

 

You and I, we will never have to look in the mirror and question if we're doing the "right thing." I turn 50, 55, 60, 65, I'll still be able to roll out and have a couple kids if I want them, it's just a matter of finding a woman who wants to carry them. There's zero pressure on me, biologically, to have my kids now or later. And having met a girl who's father was 88 when she was concieved back in college, I have no qualms for or against having a child that late - her college was paid for!

 

The physical reality for a woman, though, is a matter of shelf life - after which point there is no going back. Hence, the biological clock is a physical matter first and everything else we attach to it second, becaue even if we didn't believe or think what we did about it, it would still happened regardless of what we believe.

[Seraphim]

Yes, as a perimenopausal woman I realize that my expiration date is over. And it is a very sad thing. I will never conceive or carry another baby.

[Batya33]

I think men who really care about the child's best interests do take their age into consideration - given the natural life span (do you want to be in your 80s when the child is a teenager?)and given the increased chances for certain disorders to occur where the father is over 40.

[Lonewing]

Either way, this girl I met seemed quite well adjusted, plus there's always that trust fund.... There is the old matter of Biological father versus Fraternal father, in which case we see more and more childred being raised with a fraternal father [step fathers, etc] and not just their biological father with more families being single parents.

[Fudgie]

I think anyone who has "no qualms" about conceiving a child when they are geriatric has seen pretty warped priorities in life. There's no way you will have the stamina or ability to physically play with the child. They'll get to see you die early while they're shuffled off to another dad figure. It's a classic disgusting case of "well as long as there is someone willing to take care of it and there's money, I don't care if I'm not around to raise what I made."

 

Frankly, I find it disturbing and offensive, it does make me wish that men's sperm expired after a certain age. So that this nonsense didn't happen.

[itsallgrand]

Bleh, I hate that term "biological clock"...gives this idea like it will start making those horrible sounds my alarm clock makes when it is time to get up in the morning. Or that it is like a bomb, ready to explode.

 

Are you asking will every woman become one of "those" women who goes all crazy nutso because they want kids now now now?! If so - I don't think so. I think that depends on the woman and her personality and her values. It depends on how she addresses what is important to her, her long range plans, what she puts into it, and so many other things.

 

You always have a choice in how you act, and what you decide. We all know there is a time restraint on our ability to bear a child. For some, it comes quicker than others, or is cut off short (the option). And that doesn't just go for women - there are some men out there who have been cut off of the option too. Yet not everyone becomes a lunatic about it, and why is that? And why is it that some become lunatics about it even in their early twenties??

 

I think values and what you tell yourself determines a lot. Regardless of what you "want".

 

It's funny bc in my family there are two of us siblings. Very close in age. Both in our early thirties. Neither one of us have had children. And it's not me, but my brother, who is more concerned and pained about having a child ..and soon. He doesn't want to be an older father. He considers that, whether or not biology permits it, he has a cut off....just bc he 'could' potentially impregnate a women in his 60s, doesn't mean it is something he would ever want to do.

[Fudgie]

I also find it saddening to hear women talk about being "expired". I understand wanting to have children but I find it so sad to connect a sense of worth with the ability to reproduce, which is largely out of your control. I wish people didn't judge themselves om things they can't control or have a say in. Some are fertile myrtles and others aren't. I wanted to believe that we as a society have moved away from judging someone's main worth on the condition of their womb but I guess we haven't. Very sad.

[agent1607307371]

Just noticed here that the men talk about having children up til they die. They don't have the natural cut-off that women do, but the fact is that sperm degrades in quality just like eggs. The older you get, the poorer the quality of the material you're using. It's possible, but it's not the best.

[itsallgrand]

I also find it saddening to hear women talk about being "expired". I understand wanting to have children but I find it so sad to connect a sense of worth with the ability to reproduce, which is largely out of your control. I wish people didn't judge themselves om things they can't control or have a say in. Some are fertile myrtles and others aren't. I wanted to believe that we as a society have moved away from judging someone's main worth on the condition of their womb but I guess we haven't. Very sad.

 

I agree. I find it sad whenever women use words, or men use words, to describe themselves or others as "expired" "limited shelf life" "done"...etc.

 

I know how important physically bearing a child can be to some women, but it is ONE aspect of life and being a human being. Certainly not something to judge our worth by. Even in the very olden days - women had more worth than being milk buckets and baby carriers. Except in places where women were dehumanized.

 

I even wrote a poem in my early twenties called "limited shelf life" which was about coming to terms with this mentality which some folks have, male and female, of placing such value on a woman - by her sexuality, youth, and ability to carry and produce babies.

 

I think it is something every woman needs to come to terms with. Eventually. And decide for herself.

[Tanzi]

I'm now 26 years old and have zero desires for kids and would seriously consider having a tubal ligation if they let me (100% for sure, no regrets). This is the way I've thought since age 13 and nothing is going to change. I only want to finish my major, get my degree, built my own corporation and travel. The last thing in mind would be a childfree marriage at a later age.

 

I'm starting to think that this concept about how most of our biological clocks start ticking is nothing but myth and some only feel the urge for kids because of social pressures and the environment they grew up in, not out of sudden nature.

 

I can now say my ''biological clock'' never ticked and won't.

 

Wanting to have a child is a natural desire for most women. Where would life be if it wasn't! That doesn't mean to say that we all have to have this same desire, of course.

 

Someone who is desperate to have a baby but is getting older will naturally start to worry that time is running out for them and, in that sense, the whole biological clock thing is more a figure of speech than anything else. Women are having children later and later in life these days so I feel there is less pressure now for women to have children at any early age, or at all, than ever before.

[MsAdorkable]

I'm now 26 years old and have zero desires for kids and would seriously consider having a tubal ligation if they let me (100% for sure, no regrets). This is the way I've thought since age 13 and nothing is going to change. I only want to finish my major, get my degree, built my own corporation and travel. The last thing in mind would be a childfree marriage at a later age.

 

I'm starting to think that this concept about how most of our biological clocks start ticking is nothing but myth and some only feel the urge for kids because of social pressures and the environment they grew up in, not out of sudden nature.

 

I can now say my ''biological clock'' never ticked and won't.

 

You are certainly not the only woman without a clock. At age 5 I started saying I was never going to have kids and of course no one believed me. Now at 31 nothing has changed. I simply don't long for them. I do love kids and will always be around them thanks to a large family, but I have no desire to have my own. I myself have pondered a tubal ligation or a hysterectomy, but given the cost have not opted for either just yet. I think the key is to be absolutely sure that you're making such a decision for you and for the right reasons. It isn't about what anyone else thinks or expects of you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being childfree by choice.

[yeawutever]

Wanting to have a child is a natural desire for most women.

Not to me. My natural desire is to travel to different places and meet people of other cultures.

Where would life be if it wasn't! That doesn't mean to say that we all have to have this same desire, of course.

Actually if you think about it, the world already has lots of children. I feel bad for the ones that don't have the love from their parents or get mistreated badly. In these cases, parents like them shouldn't be giving birth.

 

I guess if in 4 years later, my decision remains the same then I can consider proceeding with the lubal ligation.

[yeawutever]

Maybe yours just has its alarm turned off.

If by the age 30, is still turned off, then I can then assume that I never had that natural urge to have kids.

[Tanzi]

Not to me. My natural desire is to travel to different places and meet people of other cultures.

 

But that is what I said, more or less:

 

"That doesn't mean to say that we all have to have this same desire, of course".

 

I meant that women who choose to have babies do so because they have a natural desire to, as opposed to your concept that we have them due to social pressures.

[Mercurial Girl]

 

I meant that women who choose to have babies do so because they have a natural desire to, as opposed to your concept that we have them due to social pressures.

 

This. I am not having these increasingly strong urges because of social pressures. On the contrary! I am feeling more pressure to do this that or the other first, in fact I think there is now more social pressure to put off having children. I have a friend in her 30's being told she's "so young!" and has tons of time left, not to rush it, enjoy life first. Whaaaaa?

[Seraphim]

This. I am not having these increasingly strong urges because of social pressures. On the contrary! I am feeling more pressure to do this that or the other first, in fact I think there is now more social pressure to put off having children. I have a friend in her 30's being told she's "so young!" and has tons of time left, not to rush it, enjoy life first. Whaaaaa?

 

I agree, I did not have my son out of societal pressure either. I truly truly deep far down in my heart wanted to be a mom. I absolutely wanted to experience pregnancy and have my own child. And not because other people wanted me to but because I wanted to. No one in my life told me to be a mother or wanted me to have kids if I did not want to have them.

[Seraphim]

I personally would've felt incomplete without having a child. I am not suggesting that other people are incomplete without having children. That is just my personal observation for myself.

[lemondust]

I've only ever felt broody once in my life. And I am not sure either way if I want children, or not. Part of me say's yes, the other part really doesn't feel all that concerned.

 

Do I believe there is a biological clock....only if you really allow it to rule your fears and insecurities. The women who are desperate and longing so much, are creating their own clock in a sense, but it's evidence that more and more women in older years are having children.

 

Personally, I wouldn't worry about what society say's, one doesn't have to look too far to see how fundamentally broken it is.

[MsAdorkable]

If by the age 30, is still turned off, then I can then assume that I never had that natural urge to have kids.

 

I said something like this about age 25. I just grew sick of people in my personal life trying to tell me I was incapable of making such a decision. It was as if they thought it was immature of me to not want children or that I wasn't capable of understanding my own desires. I found that tiresome and insulting. So yeah on my 25th birthday I woke up and asked myself yet again and the answer was still no. Now I just don't waste time explaining myself to those people I just not so politely tell them to butt out lol.

[mhowe]

Because you have no maternal instincts doesn't mean they don't exist for other women. And biologically, woman are prone to procreate..or the human species would not exist.

 

And while you can say it today, you have really no idea how you will feel a decade from now.

 

I'm now 26 years old and have zero desires for kids and would seriously consider having a tubal ligation if they let me (100% for sure, no regrets). This is the way I've thought since age 13 and nothing is going to change. I only want to finish my major, get my degree, built my own corporation and travel. The last thing in mind would be a childfree marriage at a later age.

 

I'm starting to think that this concept about how most of our biological clocks start ticking is nothing but myth and some only feel the urge for kids because of social pressures and the environment they grew up in, not out of sudden nature.

 

I can now say my ''biological clock'' never ticked and won't.