Would you marry someone who proposed with no ring?

[Sparkly Eyes]

It's ironic how when these issues come up it is usually the person who doesn't have to pay who thinks that the amount is of little or no importance.

 

I don't see many men this thread, other than you, saying they wished they didn't have to buy a ring at all or that it is a big deal to them.

[DN]

I didn't say that either.

[Seraphim]

I don't think women think that men buying a ring is of little consequence. That is assuming a lot. This thread is starting to sound like women are only gold diggers and men are these poor maligned creatures. I am sorry I made this thread at all.

[DN]

Well, at least one did.

 

This isn't about golddiggers or men being put upon. It's about the meaning of equality in a marriage and a relationship and that if a symbol is important for one partner then it should be important for another. If an engagement ring is a symbol of love and commitment and wanting to demonstrate that to the the world through that symbol why is it only one way? Does that speak to balance of love and commitment by both partners ? Or is it just a piece of jewelry?

 

If it is not a symbol of love and commitment - what is it? I hope it is not a symbol of ownership as some people used to think.

[Sparkly Eyes]

By that sentence, you implied that you think it's women who think buying a ring is not that big of a deal, and that men think that more often. I haven't encountered that myself. Most men I know who actually believe in marriage would happily buy their girl a ring. I know guys who don't care to be married at all, but that's another story.

[DN]

How many of those men would be happy to receive an engagement gift (such as a watch) from their fiancees?

[Sparkly Eyes]

How many of those men would be happy to receive an engagement gift (such as a watch) from their fiancees?

 

Funny you said that, because in my culture they do that. Groom gets a very nice watch from bride's family.

 

I'm not sure, haven't asked. They would probably like it, but not see it as important to feel equal.

[DN]

Perhaps more should ask - or even just go ahead and do it.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Personally I would love to! If a guy puts time and effort to buy me something and surprise me, I would love to do the same thing for him and give back.

[DN]

Personally I would love to! If a guy puts time and effort to buy me something and surprise me, I would love to do the same thing for him and give back.

That's great. Exactly what I have been trying to advocate.

 

Of course, you could also be the first to give as well but I imagine you do already.

[truegrit]

Again, for me I don't give a rats behind about having an engagement ring. HOWEVER, I know that is not the norm which I recognized. My problem is so many women (not all for sure) but some put too much emphasis on it and the cost of it. I've seen a thread on here about a gal calling her fiance cheap for not buying an expensive ring. I don't think a man should be expected to purchase a ring or spend a lot on it. I don't think a woman should base any of her future or getting married on a piece of jewelry. I also don't think it is fair that a man is expected to spend this money and not the woman.

I don't think you need an "object" in order to declare your love. The real part is when he says "I take this woman........." and then it's after that he will be able to prove he means it for the next 10,20 or 50 years. There's your proof of commitment..........

[Sparkly Eyes]

That's great. Exactly what I have been trying to advocate.

 

Of course, you could also be the first to give as well but I imagine you do already.

 

For gifts yes, for an engagement ring or watch, I'm not sure if men here like that. I actually asked a couple of my guy friends today if they like to be proposed to with a ring and they said no, I think they feel it emasculates them.

[DN]

For gifts yes, for an engagement ring or watch, I'm not sure if men here like that. I actually asked a couple of my guy friends today if they like to be proposed to with a ring and they said no, I think they feel it emasculates them.

Well, IMO they need to get over themselves. To accept someone as an equal means that you don't feel less of a man (or woman) because your partner is just as capable as you are of doing something.

[Alezia]

I don't think there is anything wrong with following the traditional man asks woman, aslong as both parties are ok and happy with it. If the woman likes being asked, and the man likes to do the asking, why bother changing it?

[_Asti_]

I don't think there is anything wrong with following the traditional man asks woman, aslong as both parties are ok and happy with it. If the woman likes being asked, and the man likes to do the asking, why bother changing it?

 

I think thats part of the issue here. People fail to see that some people are actually fine with tradition. My fiance wanted nothing in return when he proposed.

He wanted no part either in me proposing. Which is fine because to us, thats what we wanted. The male proposing to the female. Its what WE wanted. No one can tell us what we did was wrong, or thats its not fair, or blah blah blah...because what matters is that is what WE wanted to do.

We both wanted the traditional aspect, he would have been mortified if I had proposed to him, and he wanted to buy me a decent ring. We both shared the same view on engagement. People can rip it apart all they want, what matters is what the couple believe in.

[sidehop]

For gifts yes, for an engagement ring or watch, I'm not sure if men here like that. I actually asked a couple of my guy friends today if they like to be proposed to with a ring and they said no, I think they feel it emasculates them.

 

See this is what I don't believe in and many ways I agree with DN on what's really more important. I didn't ask my wife, she did. The whole ring deal was later on which we were perfectly happy with.

 

I think there's not enough balance when it comes to what is expected from both men and women. And the society enforces that further from childhood expecting boys to be tough, girl allowing to emotional but can't be like boys, etc etc yet when it comes to relationships it creates these conflicts because he/she doesn't understand why they are so different from each other.

 

Traditional roles and non traditional roles are perfectly fine; it's when people start to expect others and set this sort of rule that has to be followed or they get bent out of shape; or feel that their partner is inferior or doing something wrong. That's what I don't agree with.

[sherryberrypie]

To a lot of men, the ring she wears is really important to them. It says a lot about them as a couple, and these days, a lot of men have rings custom made just for their fiances, putting a ton of time and effort into every detail. This is not because she demands it, but because it's important to him too. Years ago I told my SO I'd get him an engagement "quad" (ATV). Clearly I am not going to be able to afford one anytime soon, but all he wants is me anyway. He has a nice watch I got him for our first anniversary, and he hardly wears it. He definitely doesn't want a ring because it's too dangerous at work. What he does want is to be able to find or make me a beautiful ring that he can be proud of.

[DN]

I think Sidehop made a great post - if men and women are to be be truly equal then putting them in little boxes the sides of which comprise traditions that no longer have meaning or function doesn't do anything to move us forward. It just confines us in pointless gender roles that are outdated and serve only to make one gender more or less important at the expense of another. What so many people don't realise is that one tradition that may be an advantage in and of itself can actually be a disadvantage when taken in the totality of life.

 

If men leave the burden of childrearing only to women because it is traditional they can hardly complain when women get custody more often in the event of divorce. If women expect men to open doors for them and carry their bags because it is traditional they can hardly complain when they are not considered as capable when it comes to jobs that involve physical prowess or danger and which they are perfectly capable of doing as well.

 

This is why the comparatively small traditions are important - because it is by them that we define ourselves. As an example - this is why the traditional wedding vows, which lasted for centuries, have mostly been altered so that a woman no longer promises to obey her hsuband. Women may still promise that if they wish - but few people do and most think it a little odd.

[OptomisticGirl]

Or the man is adamant about not having the 'who gives this woman' line. Great post thou DN, very well said.

[petite]

I guess I'm just a big ol' gold digger LOL.

 

On a serious note my fiance dislikes jewelery, and even though he owns a couple watches he usually wears the one I gave him for his birthday. Just to be sure, I asked him again today would he wear an engagement ring? He said no and it would be a complete waste of money since he would never wear if after we get married because he'd wear the wedding band. I've said it a thousand times I would never propose to a guy and I don't really care what people think about that - their issue not mine. If we were to start splitting everything equally I guess I wouldn't do any of his ironing or bake a certain dish he likes a lot, he wouldn't be cutting the grass at my house and I certainly wouldn't be making the bed at his place. He bought me a ring because HE wanted to, not because someone made him do it, or he felt he needed to - just because he wanted to. I paid for our vacation from tickets to hotels so I suppose to be equal I should have taken up his offer and should have cashed the cheque he offered me - even though I said it was my treat, my decision to pay for it and I just wanted us to have a good time. We consider each other to be each others equal and just because I pay for X and he pays for Y does not mean I'm a gold digger or selfish because I didn't buy him an engagement ring.

 

What should happen he actually go through with moving into my house and selling his? Technically the money goes into his account, does that mean I should charge him rent for living in a house I paid for? I think people take some things way too far if the guy doesn't want to buy the engagement ring fine he doesn't have to it's between him ad his partner and if he does, what does anyone outside the relationship care that he decided to buy his girlfriend/fiance/wife a ring that costs $1000 or $10,000 unless you're paying for it and have an issue I don't see the need to complain. In the end it will all be our money, his bills will be mine and mine will be his.

[DN]

Again, I think people miss the point between what people do on a truly voluntary basis and what they do because they feel constrained to do so by tradition and /or outdated gender roles.

[petite]

Believe it or not there are men that appreciate tradition - and not because they want the wife to be their property but because they respect that part of tradition. If some men don't want to buy engagement rings then they can let heir girlfriends know they don't plan on doing it. It's very simple and I don't really see why some people complicate this so much.

[Seraphim]

I agree, the relationship and how it is conducted belongs to the couple,whether it be traditional or not traditional, and the rest of us really have nothing to say about it that matters.

[Batya33]

DN -I don't think you give people enough credit to be able to differentiate between tradition and what they believe or know the other person is capable of. When he can my husband helps me on with my coat. When we are going inside after shopping with heavy bags that he has watched the clerk pack, he tells me which ones he thinks I can handle to carry inside -not because of gender, because he is stronger than I am (or I let him think he is ;-). In the past he would have tried to carry all by himself but since he carries 30 pounds of wriggly toddler he's practical and knows we need my hands as well.

Sure not everyone can differentiate- some people think that the traditions have a far stronger basis in reality than they should as far as a woman's abilities or a man's ability to be nurturing and other tradtional "feminine" qualities but others get a lot out of keeping up traditions - makes them feel part of a family, a community, or just that nice warm and fuzzy feeling.

[FathomFear]

I don't see many men this thread, other than you, saying they wished they didn't have to buy a ring at all or that it is a big deal to them.

 

Well honestly, I think it almost goes without saying that the ideal scenario would be for the tradition to be equal in some regards. There's really not rational or logical reason in this day and age why it should be any less than equal.

 

The issue is that men, just like women, get hammered with these messages while growing up. I have a good straight guy friend who says he feels emasculated if he doesn't pay 100% when he goes on a date. This just goes to show that there's brainwashing all around, and it takes effort to break out of it. It just happens to be more difficult to break out of it if you're the one benefiting from a particular tradition (such as women not paying for dates, for example).