Is she wanting her cake and eating it?

[dramallama]

So when does the part come where she comes running to you that she wants to be together again?

[Mrs Popsicle]

So when does the part come where she comes running to you that she wants to be together again?

 

Thing is she might *not* come running back. But I would say asktlk seems more secure and able to cope if she didn't? What do you think asktlk?

[askltk]

So when does the part come where she comes running to you that she wants to be together again?

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

Like popsicle said - she might not coming back - I defiantly dont see her running anyway (she's too stubborn!). But I am coping great now, this thread (i like to think) has showed my progression from needy bf who pushed her away, to someone who is confident in himself and reverting back to the guy she feel in love with. My intention isnt for her to get back with me, it was to better myself and get back to feeling happy about me. I hated how needy and attached I had become of my ex, it wasnt me and I didnt like what I had become.

 

Who knows Drama - the part when she comes back may arrive, and maybe not. But if it doesnt, Im content that Im a feeling better than I did towards the end of the Break-up. What do you think?

 

Anyway - im off sick today (man flu!) and, having been up all night texting her, she's openly offered to come round with my tablets (only flu tablets). I didnt ask her to. Its the sort of thing she did when we first got together. I told her not to worry, I can get them another way but thanked her for offering. She's text all day asking if i needed anything, even tho she has a packed day herself. I dont read anything into her offer, as I'd do the same for her if she was sick.

[Mrs Popsicle]

But I am coping great now, this thread (i like to think) has showed my progression from needy bf who pushed her away, to someone who is confident in himself and reverting back to the guy she feel in love with. My intention isnt for her to get back with me, it was to better myself and get back to feeling happy about me. I hated how needy and attached I had become of my ex, it wasnt me and I didnt like what I had become.

 

Who knows Drama - the part when she comes back may arrive, and maybe not. But if it doesnt, Im content that Im a feeling better than I did towards the end of the Break-up. What do you think?

 

Thats why I have been following this thread (and your progress!) with interest. As I am now split with BF I have no plans to get him back with nonchalance or anything else, but I feel the same as you, that I had become someone I didn't want to be. Good luck!

[askltk]

Hows this - she turns up to my house after the gym with medicine and tissues. She didnt stay (she left her car running on the drive) as she was heading back to shower after her work out (her actual words were she stank!). I was grateful, especially when she went out specially for them. Quite thoughtful really....

[askltk]

Thanks Popsicle! Glad my thread is of some use.

 

It took time - but I realised that what I had allowed myself to become was someone I didnt want to be - and that ultimately cost me my relationship. Im not saying im there yet, I've still got plenty of work to do!

 

As Ive posted elsewhere too, the situation with my ex is very complex, in that we do text every day, and meet up usually once a week. I've dont initiate these, its all her. I have however started to use the nonchalance approach to meeting up, as discussed by the nonchalant thread - by saying im off somewhere, and if she'd like to join me. On the times she's said no, she's been surprised when I've done it anyway! ENA say that ex's keep contact to have that safety net, and i believed this at the beginning. However, I have now made this work for me. See here .

 

I also think your in the right place with CrapatNC's nonchalance thread - it has worked well for me too. Good Luck to you too!

[dean kaplan]

askitk,

 

It's great to hear how your thought process on this has evolved from the first post in this thread. Your case is a bit unique in that she's really put in the effort to contact you even from the get-go, while you employ some psychology, via a No Contact'ish type of attitude. Please keep us posted as to how this turns out. Interesting.

[askltk]

Thanks Dean - especially if you've read from the beginning of the thread and noticed the difference in my attitude! Glad you found it interesting.

 

I have evolved over the past 2 months. I agree its a unique / special / odd / confusing situation from the outside. Friends / Family on both sides don't quite understand it, and all seem to ask either "why did she break up with you and yet contacts you every day" or "why do you respond to her if she doesnt want to be with you".

 

In terms of employing psychology, this was not intentional - but I have always made sure i dont initiate contact. She makes all the effort. I havent gone NC, as tbh i havent seen the need, Im progressing whilst still having contact.

 

I will of course keep this updated.

[Mrs Popsicle]

Thanks Dean - especially if you've read from the beginning of the thread and noticed the difference in my attitude! Glad you found it interesting.

 

I have evolved over the past 2 months. I agree its a unique / special / odd / confusing situation from the outside. Friends / Family on both sides don't quite understand it, and all seem to ask either "why did she break up with you and yet contacts you every day" or "why do you respond to her if she doesnt want to be with you".

 

In terms of employing psychology, this was not intentional - but I have always made sure i dont initiate contact. She makes all the effort. I havent gone NC, as tbh i havent seen the need, Im progressing whilst still having contact.

 

I will of course keep this updated.

 

Its quite interesting,the timing of this thread and CrapatNC's too.

I have a male friend who was the typical needy BF, who recently got dumped then lost his job( I think as a result of the breakup). Since then he's become the most nonchalant person I know, and the women are literally flocking to him- the way hes dealing with that leaves a lot to be desired I admit, but still, he's never had so many offers of dates in his life before!

[askltk]

I started this thread prior to reading craps. But I openly credit that thread for how I perceive my situation now.

I saw acting nonchalance as not a sign of arrogance, but a way of caring for my ex without bein needy - whilst helping to get myself back. At first it was an act, but as it worked out it's helped me Re-evaluate my ex and our relationship.

 

pleased that my situation is of interest. Please feel free to discuss.

[askltk]

Another good read which I've found useful is

 

ENA preaches NC alot - and in some cases this is the best way to heal. However, every relationship and circumstance is different. As people above have suggested - I find my situation unique, so I was glad to discover alternative solutions. Its another option, and it's not for everybody.

 

There is no right or wrong answer, nore is there a foolproof way of reconciliation - I found its concentrating on yourself. The funny thing is that by doing that, in which ever way you see fit, often leads to positives.

[Mrs Popsicle]

Another good read which I've found useful is

 

ENA preaches NC alot - and in some cases this is the best way to heal. However, every relationship and circumstance is different. As people above have suggested - I find my situation unique, so I was glad to discover alternative solutions. Its another option, and it's not for everybody.

 

There is no right or wrong answer, nore is there a foolproof way of reconciliation - I found its concentrating on yourself. The funny thing is that by doing that, in which ever way you see fit, often leads to positives.

 

I agree....I suppose that NC is the ultimate form of nonchalance-not a 'punishment' for the ex but for some people the only way they can truly concentrate on themselves. If you can put yourself first with no NC or even LC then it works just as well.

[askltk]

I agree....I suppose that NC is the ultimate form of nonchalance-not a 'punishment' for the ex but for some people the only way they can truly concentrate on themselves. If you can put yourself first with no NC or even LC then it works just as well.

 

NC is just one way that people can heal, but it's not the only way. Getting a bit Psychological now - but it's like getting over anything. You can either go cold turkey, struggle with the cravings, the desire for it etc.. or wean yourself off slowly. The results depend on the person - but just another way of looking at it.

 

Another thing I've realised that Less really is more. The more you over commit and force the issue - the further away you push them. Now, I make less effort - and i get a better response (for example, by having my own stuff on and filing my diary up, she now feels she has to invite me out to be able to meet up)

[askltk]

All quiet this week - the first week that neither of us have made the move to meet up. This is the longest time we have not seen each other since we got together (and subsequently).

 

And oddly, Im not fussed by it. I've spent alot of time at the gym (working out really does help you feel better through release of Endorphins) and meeting up with friends (all be it not going out as were all saving for our trip to VEGAS in march). We've continued to stay in daily contact - as ive emphasised she reaches out every day. For example, she is working alot in London at the mo, and we exchange emails throughout the day. There continues to be no negativity or questioning of what we are doing. We just get on.

 

So this week, we made an arrangement that we could be going shopping (my apartment needs some new stuff for when i move in). This was her suggestion, and as I've always like shopping with her, was happy for her to join me. It may not happen - but I'm easy either way. Hopefully have something more exciting to report in the coming week! ha

[Mrs Popsicle]

Hey Ask, how are things going?

Hope you don't mind, but wonder if you could give me some insight into my situation?

 

Firstly, I've known for a while that my nonchalance needed a bit of work, and thats something I think would help me generally, also my BF (or ex now) has always been quite nonchalant, just naturally the way he seems to be. The thing is, whenever I took a step back, and tried to work on my general neediness, my Bf would become massively clingy-he would want to hang out ALL the time, would wonder what I was doing, who with etc etc. While it was nice to get some attention (for a change ) it would always start to get a bit much, and I would start to have to reassure him, and I would end up back at square-negative nonchalance-one! Then he would revert back to his usual inattentive self. We cycled through this a fair few times in our relationship.

So I guess what I'm asking is, how does this idea work when you're in a relationship? How do you remain detached (to a healthy degree) while at the same time reassuring your partner that you're not about to run off and leave them?

I'd appreciate your views on this

[askltk]

Popsicle.

 

Im good thanks - no juicy news my end, still speaking daily through text / email, but not planned on meeting up.

 

No problem at al. I'd say first that im happy to help out if you see it useful, but im by no means know what I'm doing - I struggle enough sorting myself out! Ha

 

The problem you've mentionned is one I personally dealt with on a couple of occasions with my now Ex. We were both open and trusting with eachother - in the fact we both did our own thing (in the beginning), and never felt the need to question eachother. This is still the case now - were not together, but i dont ask what she's doing, its not my business. Ultimately, she'll tell me anyway! Ha

 

In terms on nonchalance in a relationship, I think its more to do with being relaxed, rather than not caring. The fact that you pull away and he comes is a classic (noted everywhere on this thread, hence a lot of positivity for NC) situation. For example, if he goes out with friends, tell him to have a good night, enjoy himself - show him that you trust him.

 

Sounds like it's a typical "not wanting you, but not letting anyones else have you" scenario (one i believe im in now). He is clinging because your acting aloof, not giving him the details, and his is making him over analyse about what your doing. Once you give him that security back, he then feels like he doesnt have to try anymore, as he is reassured. Personally, i think relationships are built on that openness - that you shouldnt need to fear your partner running off ever time they head out (unless you truly believe they are cheating).

 

I believe its not detachment per say (who wants to be "detached" in a relationship), its more being yourself as an individual. I personally lost this with my ex, and is what i am now working hard to regain (you'll see my change in persona in this thread since i started it months ago). Even in relationships, both of you need to be individuals as well as a couple.

 

As I said, that just my opinion - but im glad this thread has helped in some way! will update once something of note happens! ha good luck

[askltk]

So, last night looked like it was the first night that my ex wouldnt reach out to me and talk before bed. It's somewhat of an "unwritten" routine with us, in the sense that we'll always tend to find time to text during the day, but most of our communication is in the evening. She will always initiate it, I chose not to because 1) I dont want to be seen as needy and desiring to know her whereabouts 2) Im usually out doing my own thing!

 

Last night was the first night in almost 2 years that she hadnt reached out (or so i thought). At the time, it made me realise that although I am moving on / bettering myself and the like, I still enjoy (and find comfort to a certain extent) the communication between me and my ex.

 

In the end, she text me at around 2am (I stay up late usually), openly apologising for the lateness! Ended up that she still went out with her friend (my best friend's sister as it go's) to the restaurant that she works at, and ended up working into the early hours (which isnt uncommon for her!). I already knew she was out, and wasnt a huge surprise she'd end up working!

 

Not a massive issue, I know, but i was just interested in how I felt last night.

[Mrs Popsicle]

Thanks for your input ask, the bit I've bolded...thats what I had been wondering whether it was just a case of not wanting to be with anyone else. I think perhaps maybe I didn't try for long enough to 'get back to myself' if that makes sense-so that on the occasions I did, rather than see it as a kind of 'growth' thing for me, he took it as a signal that something had changed (and immediately suspected that there was someone else?) Perhaps if I'd acheived lasting change he wouldn't have felt threatened by it.

 

How are you getting on? It's good that you are moving on and getting on with things, but sometimes its when we realise that we don't NEED someone that we start to realise that we WANT them, not because we can't live without them but just because its ..well, nice. I guess the positive there is that quietly missing someone is not about to send you over the edge and start begging them to come back Where do you see it going from here?

 

I actually find it strange that I ended up in a relationship where I seem to have 'lost' myself. I was widowed fairly young, and the one thing it taught me (among others) was that no matter how much you think you can't live without another person, you in fact can and do, and I'm living proof of that! I guess theres always more to be learnt in life

[askltk]

Thank pop's

 

The part I have highlighted is something I too have been thinkings alot about recently. On a romantic / physical standpoint, the ex hasn't made any move (nore have I - bar occasional flirting). But, at the moment, im concentrating on my own issues - and giving her the space she needs.

 

During our break up chat over 3 months ago, the main issue with my seemed "dependency" of her, that fact I would almost hold my own life to work my schedule around her's - the word smothered was used which kind of hit home. At the time, it was a sacrifice I was willing to make to be with her - when in reality (and unknowingly to me) all it did was push her further away. That's part of the reason why Im no initiated contact, it gives her more of a reason to reach out, whilst allowing me to get on with find the guy I was at the start of the relationship. The intention of this is not to win her back, but to retrace to the confident guy I once was.

 

The regularity of her texts does vary, sometimes it's when she first wakes up, other times its late in the afternoon (for example she's text me for the first time today about 20mins ago - she scored a great result on her thesis) Almost felt like she needed a readon to make contact. Glad she did let me know tho, as I helped out quite a bit! Ha (See earlier posts' it was well documented.

 

How am i getting on - well including all the stuff mentioned, im feel like im moving on (albeit slowly). Totally agree with you in regards to need and want - I'm moving away from that "need" of her, and I'm left with that desire for her - that want. When we first got together, I made the first move, but she chased me before we became official. Ultimately, that's what's got to happen if we were to get back together. Im reluctant to make a move at the risk of coming off needy. We'll see.

 

So...back to your question - where do i see it going? Honestly - I think our communication will ultimately fizzle out if we keep on the path we're on. We haven't made as much effort to meet up (last time I actually saw her was almost 2 weeks ago). Saying that, she asked me yesterday how much holiday I had left, and we should go shopping when she is less busy. I think reconciliation is out of the question at the moment, which I've actually portrayed as step forward. I think we both have things we've got to work on before anything romantic could happen. Would I welcome an approach..yes. But for now Im comfortable doing my own thing.

 

Maybe I'm having a bit of a down down day, Im not sure - I'd usually be a tad more optimistic than this! Ha I will, as always, do my best to keep this updated.

[askltk]

Weekend has been quiet on the Ex front, although some interesting issues have come up.

 

She got some amazing results at University - yet none of her family seem to remotely care. One of things she always enjoyed about our relationship was that I would praise her - give her the credit she deserves. Her family is somewhat disjointed, her parents split and has a needy older sister - so she is somewhat cast aside as she is the youngest. Her mum doesnt know anything about her, and although she tries to show interest - there is no relationship there (which my ex craves). It frustrated me so much when we were together, she bends over backwards for her family, works 2 jobs, does school, and gets zero credit or attention. That could be in part why I became sooo needy and dependant, that I had some sort of obligation to feel that void - and as it was too much / she wasnt used to it, she ran. (Sorry, bit Psychological there - and i dont even understand Psychology! Ha).

 

I congratulated her, and nothing more. Previously, I would have made a song and dance about it - but that's what got me in this situation. However, i got the feeling she was looking for it. She said how neither of her parents have shown praise or acknowledgement, and that she felt deserved some attention. Instead, it all went to her sister, who was having a strop over something trivial.

 

Anyway - she's been alot more receptive recently, were still talking every day - but havent seen each other for a few weeks (which i think has been good, space is what she wanted). I've used this time to work out, plan trips, see friends and play sports. She's pretty much worked every night shift since Wednesday. I havent suggested meeting up - mainly because I want to be in control of the situation. Tonight, I mentioned i was catching a movie - No more detail than that. Her immediate reply was sounds good and "who with?". I brushed that comment off - it's with a couple of my friends, but she doesnt need to know.

 

Her reply was she also wants to go cinema to see a different film - and that she still owes me dinner from helping her with her uni work. I took a punt, and said maybe we can go this week, and said i was only free on two days. She isn't free either of those days, but told me the reasons why (she didnt have to). In the past i would almost change my plans to suit hers. This time, i casually said "you sounds busy too, no worries", then changed the subject.

 

I think that's how I'm changing for the better - I do want to see her, but I dont need to. I'm not caught up with trying to force dates or conversation - it is what it is now. I do think we'll go out, but after tonight Im gonna go back to her initiating it (much like our communication). The positive thing from this time apart is that, although we still talk, it's giving her a chance to realise im not there. I wont come running to save her, or give her the gratification of praise that she seeks from elsewhere.

 

Onto another week - and I'm feeling good! A girl at the gym has been communicating alot (annoyingly its one of the ex's oldest childhood friends). Im not interested in her romantically, but it's nice to feel your turning that corner and that others are out there!

[Mrs Popsicle]

Hey Ask, glad things are going well! I agree you should let her do the contacting for a bit,see where that takes things, she certainly sounds interested in what your doing-and who with!

 

I unfortunately had a bit of a melt down over the weekend! Indulged in some horribly needy text messages to ex (not exactly begging or anything, but texts that made it quite clear that I was losing the plot ) and then spent two hours in bed crying as if the world was ending.... the good part is that afterwards I felt SO much better, and actually think I have started to turn a nonchalant corner...

 

I started to make sense of a lot of things-one thing that struck me was about my need for approval. I have read about this in the past and always thought it didn't apply to me-I thought, I am perfectly capable of congratulating myself for my successes! What I hadn't realised was that after praising myself, if I didn't get the same praise from BF, I would feel attacked, and upset, so I was effectively handing over my own approval to him for him to throw away (merely by not reinforcing it) So thats something I have learnt at least.

 

Another thing I have learnt today is about my ex and his game-playing. Often he would arrange to come over for whatever reason, and then not bother, or show up ages later than he said he would. I would then get annoyed about this (and sometimes really over the top angry!) and when I did see him, I would either openly bring it up, or start being passive-aggressive. Neither of these tactics worked, and he remained as lax as ever about time-keeping throughout the relationship.

 

Today he phoned to say he would be over to pick something up, about an hour later. Four and a half HOURS later he appears to get his books. Now during this time, instead of getting angry at him, I started to wonder if this was something he did on purpose (even unconsciously?) as a sort of test. So with this in mind, I thought instead of me acting exactly the way he expected me to, I was going to do things a little differently.

 

When he arrived I made no mention of the time, just chit chatted about various things. Then he asked if he could take some of the beer he left here to take to a mates house- now there have been various alcohol issues in this relationship and so I decided that if he was expecting me to nag about the alcohol, he was going to be dissapointed! So I told him to take it all and have a good night with his friend.

As he was leaving he started asking me if I was free tomorrow for coffee (I'm not,new semester starts at Uni) and protesting that even if I had only an hour between classes, he could come to uni and meet me.....then as he was leaving he said 'you know you could be a bit nicer to me' I was shocked, I had been nothing but cheery and friendly towards him!

 

He then phoned me an hour later to tell me some anecdote about when he went shopping.

This all might seem trivial, but this is coming from the guy who made next to NO effort in our relationship, and left me feeling like I was banging my head against the wall.

 

Sorry for the essay! I'm just really pleased that I have reached some kind of turning point, and am learning new things about myself all the time, its all very exciting!

[askltk]

Pop's

 

No worries about essay, I find it better to write everything i can - gets it out of my head and onto paper (or online in this case!) to review another time.

 

As for the game playing, that sounds like someone who just didnt respect you. It's that sense of empowerment, that he can make you wait for him, like you haven't anything better to do. You would every right to be angry - I would be.

 

You seem to have got a great response from him - you acting differently towards him, and he doesnt no how to handle it! You've got him thinking, and you can see this with his change in behaviour and actually making an effort (Hence the offer for coffee). Better still, you were able to be unavailable to him - and I bet thats got him worried! Keep that up! and Congrats to you for making these changes! Enjoy the excitement.

 

As for me, things are going well - not great, but well. After last night, I decided that if she wants to meet with me, she knows where I am. She is busy all this week, and although she's told me what she's doing, Im cautious about over thinking what she "could" be doing. She is back to uni this week too, so add that to 2 jobs plus freelance, she has no time for much else.

 

Im not gonna let that bother me, I've plenty of things on at the moment, albeit work not social (what's that saying..all work and no play! Ha).

 

Will keep this updated.

[Mrs Popsicle]

Hey ask, how are you doing? I have to say my nonchalance started wavering a little today But I know the reasons why, and what to do about it.

 

Saw ex today (very briefly) and during our short conversation I left feeling like I had just been put through the 3rd degree! What time did I go to bed at(he saw my light on late last night) , how I knew a mutual friends phone was broken (we were both there when he showed it to me!) who's I'd seen at uni,where I was going now etc etc. All this came up in normal conversation, and I just answered truthfully, as you do. Now I feel like I'm being checked up on! And I really feel I shouldn't have given him all the answers he was looking for as I feel like I've lost some of my mystery Oh well,I'll just have to devise a way of ducking out of these kinds of inquiries!

 

Mrs Popsicle

[askltk]

Pops -

 

He's only asking you these questions because he almost "needs" to see your not moving on. Question after Question - he's trying to figure out what your doing (however innocent) because in his head, you could be doing any number of things (Him over analysing what your doing etc..). You said it yourself, don't give too much away - leave that air of mystery. Holding stuff back will make him realise what he;s missing. Besides, he broke up with you - therefore he doesn't need to know what your doing (he gave up that right).

 

I'm doing really well today (and yesterday). Went out of my comfort zone and went to a gym class, through a friends sister. Ended up mixing with her and her friend for the hour, and got chatting whilst we worked out (killing to birds with one stone - work out and social!).

 

The ex sent a couple of msgs throughout the day - and i responded sporadically. I didn't hear from her much of the afternoon and evening as she was at uni and I was working. We had our usual marathon text chat before bed (we both tend to stay up late), in which she opened with venting (and almost upset) about issues with her family. She is basically being picked on by her sibling because she's got drive, determination and wants to achieve. Her sister has none of those things so puts her down. Last night she had a argument with her sister about something trivial, which forced a massive falling out. So, unexpected to me, she really opened up to me about it. Long messages, how she was feeling, how alone she was, how she was working so much to get away from being at home and spending time with her family.

 

The most frustrating thing about all of that is I was her biggest supporter (rightly or wrongly), and gave her that acknowledgement she craved when others wouldn't. When we first got together, she loved how I was genuinely interested in her work, her university, her hobbies. No1 seemed to care before. Although were not together, I still feel like she comes to me looking for that "comfort". Don't get me wrong, I'm not offering her anything except a "well done - u did great". Before, I would have smothered her with praise and affection. She even mentioned that her family has shown little interest - all she wanted was a well done and maybe a present for recognition (something she knows I would have done).

 

So,from last nights convo - I came to realise that I am still, to her, an emotional support and outlet when things get tough. I've said before, she has few "good friends" (maybe 2) who she would open up to this sort of thing (she's more in with groups of people, rather than individuals). I've read recently in the nonchalance thread that supporting an ex without reward is a sure fire way to NOT get her back. That's why, were possible, I havent indulged in her problems and tried to change the subject to something more upbeat. In a few cases I reassured her that it'll all be fine (and that she deserves to much better), but i didn't give in to her needs.

 

From a purely selfish point of view, her going through this tough time without me "fully" being there will make her realise what she's missing (emotionally). I'm not trying to play a game or anything, I just don't want to get into a situation where she can dump her problems on me. If we were together, I would be there for her. Sadly, she gave up that privilege when we broke up. I'l admit, part of me wants to be there for her - but the whole point of this time is to concentrate on my own issues. Writing it now it sounds harsh - but I'm happy that Im not dependant on fixing her problems anymore.

 

My progress is kind of up and down at the moment, it varys day to day. Just got to keep improving, go outside my comfort zone and concentrate on gym / social. Onwards...! Ha

[Mrs Popsicle]

Hey ask, thats not harsh at all in my opinion. If you were a couple then yeah, you could be there for her to help her, but she chose that you are not. I think she probably does need to deal with these things on her own anyway. It's crap that she doesn't get recognition from her family, but there comes a day when we all need to start relying on ourself for our esteem needs- that's what you are doing, and thats what she needs to do.

 

You're right, she does seem to need you as an emotional crutch ( I'm hestitant to say 'using' you because its probably not that conscious) When she doesn't have that any more, perhaps she will get to that place where she WANTS you, instead of NEEDS you.

 

I'm doing okay today. No great revelations, been keeping my head down, getting stuck into uni work, seeing friends from uni,getting some excercise. To be honest I don't feel *great* but I feel okay, and thats fine! As long as I don't contact the ex, I'm not taking any steps backwards-and to be honest I want to keep away from him until I feel I can get the nonchalance honed down Tomorrow I'm off to get some sexy new glasses (if glasses can be that sexy!)

 

Mrs Popsicle