"It happens when you least expect it"

[newwave]

NewWave.

You do not wish to marry a man who has children froma previous marriage/partenrship. Fair enough.

 

Thre may well be such men out there. Quite likely. However, say you meet the man, he has the "looks" you like (identikit?!), but personality is not quite the same thing at first glance. Someone can appear quite normal, indeed most suitable, for quite a while, and then -- worse still after you have married -- the real "he" appears. And believe me that is far more common than you would believe. There are any number of forums filled with stories of such happenings.

 

So what "seems" is not always what "is", even if he has the chassis, and, apparently, the engine to suit you. To draw an analogy.

 

H

 

 

Of course that happens. That's why you date to find any thing like that. Sure, they can hide it, but that can happen to anyone.

[Hermes]

NewWave:

 

Sure, they can hide it, but that can happen to anyone.

 

We are not talking anyone here. Talking about you.

 

You would be surprised at what people do NOT find out when dating or before they get married. Very surprised.

 

So, you meet Mr. Wonderful (seemingly) -- the whole package exactly as NewWave wants it. Unmarried before, no children, (other traits you want?).

 

Next thing is, you are married, he is still Mr. Suitable in every way. Then the chinks start to appear, the little fissures, something is not as it should be. He is Mr. Wrong!!!

 

He bails out on you -- oh dear me, d-i-v-o-r-c-e. Maybe you even got around to having children. Not all the moralising in the world will get you out of that one.

A real horror movie.

 

I am not telling you this will happen, but it CAN.

 

H

[newwave]

I'm not saying anymore about single parenthood. Apparently that is accepted but my views are not. No wonder we are in big trouble in this country.

[Hermes]

Which country, NewWave?

 

Single parenthood is the cause of all the troubles in X country? You think?

 

 

H

[newwave]

This country. I won't mention how I dislike single parenthood again because that is accepted but my views are not.

[boowant]

Have a nother question what if you find Mr. right and he doesnt make as much money as you like, what would u do then? I mean come on some 1 can make 25,000 and other make 100,000 and the people who make the leeser amount can be as great a the higher amount 1s!!!! Seems like you care ALOT about money! My bf did tell me that if it dont work out money wise it wasnt gonna work but in the past year i lost 1,000 a month and we are still together because of LOVE!

[newwave]

I couldn't care less how much a guy makes. The guy I currently like makes less than $30,000 and it means nothing.

[msDazed_N_Confused]

I know you don't want to discuss this, but I am just curious, what if someone is a single parent due to the fact that the husband or wife has died. Or a woman that has kept a child after being raped, i doubt you would say that they should have an abortion.

The cause maybe different, but they are single parents.

[annie24]

I couldn't care less how much a guy makes. The guy I currently like makes less than $30,000 and it means nothing.

 

it kind of does mean something though. i know you have said before that he's not looking for a serious relationship. something that i've noticed is that most men aren't ready to settle down until they feel they are financially stable and their career is in a good place. many men i know say they aren't ready to look for a wife until they are financially on track. $30K a year in chicago is pretty crappy. i bet that this might be part of the reason he does not want to settle down. just a though....

[newwave]

it kind of does mean something though. i know you have said before that he's not looking for a serious relationship. something that i've noticed is that most men aren't ready to settle down until they feel they are financially stable and their career is in a good place. many men i know say they aren't ready to look for a wife until they are financially on track. $30K a year in chicago is pretty crappy. i bet that this might be part of the reason he does not want to settle down. just a though....

 

I have that feeling too, plus the fact right now I'm not working. Eventually I hope to move by him (not because of him but because it's closer to most jobs I'd work and lots of single people). I have a feeling that once I have a job and he gets a better one it might be different.

[newwave]

I know you don't want to discuss this, but I am just curious, what if someone is a single parent due to the fact that the husband or wife has died. Or a woman that has kept a child after being raped, i doubt you would say that they should have an abortion.

The cause maybe different, but they are single parents.

 

That's different. I might consider dating a widower. Obviously the rape doesn't pertain to me, but that would be different too.

[abitbroken]

it kind of does mean something though. i know you have said before that he's not looking for a serious relationship. something that i've noticed is that most men aren't ready to settle down until they feel they are financially stable and their career is in a good place. many men i know say they aren't ready to look for a wife until they are financially on track. $30K a year in chicago is pretty crappy. i bet that this might be part of the reason he does not want to settle down. just a though....

 

That matters a lot and i find its something us gals don't always understand. Even though we think "women make money, they don't need a guy to support them," men still often have a provider instinct - now that doesn't mean they expect to be the sole breadwinner, but they want to have a decent, safe place to start a family in or to bring a wife home to. Its an achievement.

 

And its not so much the dollar amount, but a guy doesn't want to bring a wife "into their mess" so to speak.

 

I was with someone for 8 years and they didn't propose until they bought a house and a settlement that they were due was resolved. Quite frankly, I would have been content to be married sooner and live in a small apartment - and then both work together towards getting a house. I think guys who get married at 20 years old are less concerned about stuff like that - if they are emotionally ready and always wanted to get married right away - they are more romantic about the idea of it "being just the two of us" if you lived in a box under a bridge, but once guys are in their 30s and 40s they are more likely to wait.

 

My boyfriend now has a house but he is renovating it after weather related damage - sort of an ongoing project. He doesn't want to settle down until its done. My instinct as a caretaking and problem solving sort of individual would be to say "i'll run out and get an apartment or buy a small condo so we can be together faster" but that would be rushing him and quite frankly it would be throwing money out the window or a stunt to play games with him to try to get him to move on things faster.

 

A guy won't always tell you is trying to get things on track. Guys who make $18,000-30,000 aren't necessarily not on track. There are guys who work jobs at that level, and they are ready because they are where they want to be - or they use what they have very wisely and end up going farther than guys who make $100,000 because they save a little bit and don't live out of their means. But if this guy, based on where he wanted to be in life realistically might not be where he wanted to be and also that might not have had anything to do with actual income. A guy could make $30,000 and have a lot of debt that he wanted to take care of and another guy who made $30,000 would feel like he's "arrived". BTW, the average guy doesn't make $70,000+ a year. $30,000 if he doesn't live beyond his means is not a bad thing. He just won't be showering you with rubies and diamonds, that's all.

[newwave]

I do have a feeling the money is an issue. He lives with his parents and doesn't make much. I know he is concerned about this because he's afraid of getting me pregnant because he'd have to support the baby (and I know he also means me because I am not working now due to the economy). I think this financial issue is the major thing to be honest.

[MD Geist]

I don't blame you for not wanting to date a father.

 

I will never date a single mother, id rather be single for life than become a step dad to a child.

[newwave]

I don't blame you for not wanting to date a father.

 

I will never date a single mother, id rather be single for life than become a step dad to a child.

 

Same here. I am fine being single and if it means being single the rest of my life, so be it. I do not ever want to be a step mom. I think women get this idea that they should lower their standards while men don't, do you think so too? I've heard so many lies, such as an average 40 year old man won't date an average 40 year old woman, that there are more single women (not true, there are more single men), etc. My point being that there are enough people out there to date where we don't have to lower our standards or be alone.

[Batya33]

Same here. I am fine being single and if it means being single the rest of my life, so be it. I do not ever want to be a step mom. I think women get this idea that they should lower their standards while men don't, do you think so too? I've heard so many lies, such as an average 40 year old man won't date an average 40 year old woman, that there are more single women (not true, there are more single men), etc. My point being that there are enough people out there to date where we don't have to lower our standards or be alone.

 

That's the problem - you define it as "lowering your standards" which gets back to your judgment that single, divorced fathers are somehow morally inferior.

 

I set people up all the time. I have a very hard time setting up women who are in their 40s with single men who are in their 40s or 40 because most of them want kids and are wary of getting involved where they'd have to fast track getting pregnant.

[Shallow]

That's the problem - you define it as "lowering your standards" which gets back to your judgment that single, divorced fathers are somehow morally inferior.

 

I think you're reading too much into what she's saying. Morality is not universal (apologies to the absolutists, but that's this relativist's belief), and just because one wouldn't date someone who smokes, drinks, doesn't share the same religious views, etc. doesn't necessarily mean they view themselves as superior or the other person inferior. It only means they are morally incompatible, which is reason enough to exclude them from the dating pool, for better or for worse.

 

I set people up all the time. I have a very hard time setting up women who are in their 40s with single men who are in their 40s or 40 because most of them want kids and are wary of getting involved where they'd have to fast track getting pregnant.

 

Who am I supposed to date then?

 

Many women in their 30's seem to have that barrier up when it comes to dating guys 40+, and think we're creepy if we want to date someone in their 20's/early 30's.

[newwave]

That's the problem - you define it as "lowering your standards" which gets back to your judgment that single, divorced fathers are somehow morally inferior.

 

I set people up all the time. I have a very hard time setting up women who are in their 40s with single men who are in their 40s or 40 because most of them want kids and are wary of getting involved where they'd have to fast track getting pregnant.

 

No, because most of those 40ish guys probably think they can date young women even though they aren't special. Besides, who said anything about me fast tracking? I probably have time and if I don't, oh well. If these so called 40 something guys don't have to lower their standards, why should I have to lower my standards by dating a divorced dad? I don't want a father, I don't get why people don't understand that.

[newwave]

I think you're reading too much into what she's saying. Morality is not universal (apologies to the absolutists, but that's this relativist's belief), and just because one wouldn't date someone who smokes, drinks, doesn't share the same religious views, etc. doesn't necessarily mean they view themselves as superior or the other person inferior. It only means they are morally incompatible, which is reason enough to exclude them from the dating pool, for better or for worse.

 

 

 

Who am I supposed to date then?

 

Many women in their 30's seem to have that barrier up when it comes to dating guys 40+, and think we're creepy if we want to date someone in their 20's/early 30's.

 

Thanks, Shallow you get it. Yes, I do think it's very creepy when a 40something guy wants to date a 20something. Then again I hear many stories from guys who are 40 and never married that they have a hard time finding women. Apparently there is this idea (I've seen it here too) that there's something wrong with a guy over 40 and never married. That they must not want marriage, that they have mental/physical problems, etc. I strongly disagree and the guys I knew who married after 40 (who incidentally all married women over 40 too) were all professionals who met their love late in life.

 

I do have strong aversions to dating divorced dads and this won't change. I don't want to be a stepmom and if it means being alone, then that's how it'll be. By that same token, these 40something guys who think they can get 20something women will also be alone because unless they are hot or have money, none of these women want them.

[newwave]

Btw there's a difference between lowering my standards and dating someone who doesn't fit what I will accept in a marriage:

 

Lowering standards:

Dating a guy heavier than I normally like

Dating a younger guy

Dating a guy making less than I'd like

Dating a guy out of my type

 

Things I am opposed to that could never be bended:

Dating a guy with kids

Dating a guy who hate animals

Dating a chaunvinist pig

Dating a woman

Dating a guy who sleeps around

 

Notice the difference? The first group are guys who at first glance might not be my type but as I got to know them my feelings change. The second group are those things (and notice I threw in women too) that are not things I can change with regards to dating. I don't think a guy with kids is "lesser" than me, he's just not what I want. I state once again I DO NOT AND WILL NOT DATE FATHERS!. I do not want to deal with step kids emotionally, physically, or financially. I do not want to deal with ex wives. I do not want to share my time and money with a child not my own. I am not interested in playing mom to anyone not my own child (biological or adopted).

[galaxy71]

Newwave, I respect the fact that you are remaining true to your self by not dating divorced guys. A lot of people would have backed down if they had to deal with all the abuse that you had to endure from a bunch of insecure people. I notice that religious, traditional people get mocked and jeered because they refuse to blindly follow what society tells them.

 

I think their insecurity comes from the fact that people would rather drive that newer car than that old, broken down, used car. I don't understand why people can't just date people who share their values and beliefs. A big part of relationships is compatibility. Some people hold differing views on divorce. Why would anyone want to date someone that they very little in common with. Oh, there are people that complain about how you judge divorced men as morally inferior? Yet it is acceptable for others on this forum to complain about how unemployed guys or guys who live with their mothers are morally inferior. I have also seen people judge traditional people as weak and subservient.

[newwave]

Thank you. Yeah, I've seen comments exactly what you talk about, how people insult guys who live at home, etc. In general I think a chronic unemployed person has issues, but with this economy there are many long time unemployed people and many are moving home. I see so many comments about unmarried guys over 40 having something wrong with them, yet these people are the same ones who jump on me. I realize that many divorced people are that way through no fault of their own, but many others did it to themselves and would just do it to me. I know it'll be harder for me to find someone, but I'm fine with that as well. I had a male friend who wanted a stay at home wife. I told him good luck finding that because there doesn't seem to be many who'd want that. He proved me wrong by actually finding one. The divorced issue (especially with kids) is something that I feel very strongly about.

[Batya33]

No, because most of those 40ish guys probably think they can date young women even though they aren't special. Besides, who said anything about me fast tracking? I probably have time and if I don't, oh well. If these so called 40 something guys don't have to lower their standards, why should I have to lower my standards by dating a divorced dad? I don't want a father, I don't get why people don't understand that.

 

Why is it "lowering" your standards - it's the lowering comment that implies that you think someone who is divorced isn't good enough for you as opposed to being incompatible with you.

 

If you want to have a child before age 45 and you are 40 or almost 40, well, you do the math as far as when you would have to start trying to conceive, assuming that, because of your age, it could take the better part of a year or longer. How long does that give you to date before getting married, and how long does that give you to be married before trying to conceive? My husband and I decided not to wait to try, but many people want to have time just with each other as a married couple before having children or trying to conceive.

If by "oh well" you mean that you'd be fine not having a biological child then that is good news because it gives you more time to find someone and less pressure.

 

I think everyone understands that you don't want to date someone who is a father already. I think lots of people have trouble with the way you depict single or divorced fathers as morally inferior, in your other thread.

[newwave]

To be honest, if I don't end up with the guy I like, I may not want to have children with anyone else. Even if I do, that still gives me 6 years to find someone and have a kid. I could find someone, date a few years, then marry and have kids. I could possibly be able to have kids past that or for all I know I might be unable to have kids now so then I might adopt. Then there's the possibility of storing eggs. Since I'm not in the position to have kids now I don't think about it.

[annie24]

trust me, i totally understand the attraction/pull towards someone who is clearly not right for you - i've had hopeless crushes myself. but i still think you'd be better off if you can admit that he is not right for you, and focus your energies on dating someone who is more suited for you. i know i've said that before, and i know you've said you are focusing on finding work and other things in your life for a few more months. but i think that the longer you 'hold onto' this guy, the worse off you'll be. he just doesn't sound like good husband material, no matter how you slice it.

 

looking back on my 20s, i wish i had spent less time pining over hopeless men, and more time getting to know men actually looking for relationships.