Nonchalance is Your Friend

[KateUK]

Well, allowing him to take you to dinner is saying that you will be available to him while he's still sharing his affection with someone else. You're encouraging the very thing you want to stop.

 

Having said that, after re-reading your post, I think he wants you but is afraid to lay everything on the table. I'm certain you can make things work, but you're setting yourself up for future heartache if you support the current situation. You must stand up for yourself. Perhaps, then, make this explicit after the meal (at which you will have conducted yourself immaculately ;-) )

 

Woah big heart to heart and tears today - nonchalance my ass(maybe I should rename myself CrapatNonchalance!). He has just gone. Basically he is living at her mother's (complicated!!) and wants to move out but is struggling to afford it. He said he can't stop thinking about me and she has done some things in the last few weeks that have made him realise what we had and that he can't really imagine a long term future with her. He went NC with me AND her last week but he broke it with her to say that he thought it was a good idea to have a break to sort himself out. She didn't accept that and got very angry with him which has caused problems where he lives. He said he isn't seeing her romantically but she wants him to be. He said he is a total mess and I said the 25th may be too soon to see each other in that case as he seems like he is all over the shop - I said I was moving on with my life as I couldn't put myself in limbo just to risk getting hurt again in the long run. I also told him that I had began to forget details about our relationship and he got really sad but I said he needed to let me go as I was letting him go.

 

We left it with us both about crying and having a no strings hug in which he said he was sorry for everything and it was a stupid weak moment back in July which escalated and he shouldn't have let it. He apologised for coming round and upsetting me and I told him that it was just frustrating as I knew he could be a strong person but at the minute he was just messed up, but it wasn't up to me to fix it. I said the 25th was in his court but, if it was too soon for him then he was to cancel it and contact me when his head was back on straight, taking the risk that I had moved on altogether. In between snot bubbles and tears, I actually flirted a little and cracked a few funnies - as did he. Ho hum. Back to NC now I think - he doesn't really have any excuse to contact me again at least not till the 25th. And I know I certainly won't crack.

 

Thank you for your help anyway, even though I buggered it up!!

[okane24]

Sorry, mate, but I think your motives are more selfish than caring. You're afraid of losing her.

 

She's asked for space, right? You must give it to her. Plus, you are FAR too concerned about the outcome of any communication; you should wait until she contacts you and then give an upbeat, positive, supportive response. Really. I'm certain about this.

 

She contacted me.

 

Its weird though because we use this application called, What's App for Iphone and Blackberry users to communicate for free.

 

Anyhow, mine hasn't been working properly, so apparently she sent her message to me this morning, which was HER NIGHT TIME, before bed...

 

She writes me twice.

 

11:49pm her time - L

 

1:23 am her time - Calllll meee!

 

I missed both of those messages until recently.

 

She is very impulsive too. She'll speak her mind from how she is feeling AT THAT MOMENT.

 

So, I'm worried I missed my opportunity to console her or BE THERE for her last night, when she tried to reach out to me.

 

When I text or call her back, she'll undoubtedly be in a different mood.

 

But... I guess through Non-Chalantism, I shouldn't Care?

 

Should I be ready for a long, tough convo?

 

I actually have plans these next few days and can't and don't want Long drawn out conversations about us.

 

I just want to be happy with her again. For us to laugh and love eachother, like its supposed to be.

 

AND YES, THANKS CRAP, you WERE RIGHT! I wanted to call her SOOO badly these last two days, but I didn't.

 

And she contacted me.

 

I'll be upbeat and positive and be ready for whatever she wants to talk about.

[kim1]

Crap at NC

 

My ex and I started to reconcile last Spring and whenever I talked to him or saw him I would try to keep it light and be fun and nonchalant. I never asked questions about the relationship. A few weeks after I would see him he would pull away again. He has a lot of opportunities to date women so its very hard for me. Over the summer he barely saw me but did invite me to go out a few times with his siblings and I had never met them before when we were together. A few times I couldn't make it to meet him because I was not at the beach. I did make it to seem him once at the beach and he introduced me to his brothers and he met my sister and husband. Since that time he did text me a few times to see if I was at the beach and invited me to dinner with him and his brother and wife again. Now that summer is over I have not heard from him at all! I have tried and tried to do the nonchalance thing because I love your theory but I can't get it right. It seems like it is not working for me so do I just go NC completely? right now I am angry that he has not seen me now that summer is over and he is not at the beach on the weekend. I do not know how to act nonchalant when he is not talking to me at all. I feel so humiliated that I kept going back out with him and everytime he sees me he pushes me away after. He must have a girlfriend and that really really upsets me that i accepted dinners with him. Also when you are trying to be nonchalant and flirty what do you think on sending pics of yourself? I have really tried to play it like I am nonchalant but its like he is always one step ahead. I feel like he read your manual and is doing the same thing to me except better lol. Do you think he is thinking about me at all? Is there anything I can do at this point or just stay completely NC?

[J-L-T]

Crap, I have a question. How often would you say is a good idea for a dumpee to initiate contact? I'm hoping to go the LC route. I am female if you think that makes a difference.

 

Thanks.

[CrapAtNC]

KateUK, no, I think you did just fine. Clearly you have been doing something right, and there is always a time to let the guard down a little. You are so close to getting what you want. Now stick to your guns and be NC or at least highly nonchalant until the 25th. Then you can let your guard down a little, but do try to stay in control, as you are the one holding the reins right now. He seems like an OK guy. He's clearly in love with you. But don't reward his weaknesses again. This mustn't be an easy return for him. He must value you now more than ever, which is why I think you must maintain the upper hand. Steadfast nonchalance is the key!

 

okane24, yes, respond, but do not have any expectations about how it will go, be more brief than would normally feel comfortable, and stay upbeat and in control. Try to end the convo at a high point.

 

kim1, do not send pics. Go LC. Only respond when he contacts you. Do not keep running to him. For you, however, I'd suggest moving on completely. You sound like a sweet person, so I'm reluctant to help you get back with someone who doesn't appreciate or deserve you. Don't contact him. And don't respond to all his messages. In fact, start dating others. And find someone better!

 

J-L-T, do not initiate. Your ex must come to you. LC is fine if you can be nonchalant, teasing, upbeat, flirty, and fine! But the moment you try to initiate contact, you just appear needy, and that's not good. It's also not you. ;-)

[KateUK]

Thanks so much for that Crap.... I was just about to call him - and I have not really been that tempted to call him before now, but this time I felt really vulnerable because I let my guard down (although I feel better because I let myself 'feel' something if that makes sense). I am so glad I read your post before I did so. It is now half an hour into my 31st birthday so a good time to get back on the horse, so to speak. I am a big girl now - and also one hell of a catch. If he doesn't come back for me, he wants his head looking at ;-)

 

x

[mr_zanon]

Sooner or later NC will mean NonChalance instead of No Contact...

[kim1]

Crap at NC

 

I hear what you are saying. I know I have to stop running to him. If I decline he probably will just never ask me again oh well. I still miss him a lot and feel like I can't breathe sometimes. I am having a hard time imagining being with someone else but I will have to try and push myself. For the most part I only responded to his texts and calls but a few times when I thought we were back together I let my guard down and initiated texts. When we were a couple he used to call me every day sometimes a few times and now when he calls me its very brief almost like he stops himself and is following your manual. haha I can't believe he doesn't miss talking to me we talked soo much. ok so just go LC like don't initiate any text to him to tell him that I agree with him that we should just focus on ourselves or something like that? also if he does contact me how can I let him know how nonchalant I am?

[PaleSeptember]

J-L-T, do not initiate. Your ex must come to you. LC is fine if you can be nonchalant, teasing, upbeat, flirty, and fine! But the moment you try to initiate contact, you just appear needy, and that's not good. It's also not you. ;-)

 

Crap, My ex broke up with me almost a month ago, and would initiate contact every few days, asked me to see him a couple of times (which I nicely declined). About a week and a half ago, I asked him to please not contact me unless it's to reconcile, as I need time to heal and take care of myself, and that I would contact him when ready to be around him as just friends. I ended up initiating contact two days ago, and he responded positively and was friendly, ask how I was doing. He's still not initiating contact, which is what I asked him to do (unless to reconcile...). So, when I'm ready, do I not initiate contact when I feel I'm in a better place to be around him? What if he never initiates it because he doesn't want me to think he's reaching out to reconcile? Is there a way to nonchalantly tell him that he can contact me, that I won't think it's him trying to reconcile? Just confused on how to go about this.

 

Some might wonder, why would I not just leave the ball in his court, then? I have changes I need to make about myself, as I was needy, insecure, which was so unattractive, and my insecurity issues strained us this summer, basically. It's like I want to make the changes for me, but maybe I'd like him to have the opportunity to see my progress and improvement.

[just not sure]

mine keeps calling, and i honestly don't have the heart to not answer, so i go nonchalant.

 

just for posterity, i only answer the phone once out of every 3 or 4 calls.

[J-L-T]

J-L-T, do not initiate. Your ex must come to you. LC is fine if you can be nonchalant, teasing, upbeat, flirty, and fine! But the moment you try to initiate contact, you just appear needy, and that's not good. It's also not you. ;-)

 

Awww, I was hoping you wouldn't say that! But, yes, you're right. I initiated contact last time. We had a friendly enough chat, said how we're getting on. So now it's a waiting game. We text back-and-forth a good few texts. He then said he's running out of credit though...is that a bad sign? He also said sorry if he got nasty about the break-up. Which is...good...is it?

[bungalo]

What about the ex who never initiates contact? Coming up on 3 months..and not a shred of contact!

[Live-N-Learn]

Crap,

 

Well we hung out both Saturday and Sunday night with her spending the night last night. We did not have sex but we held each other all night. I am doing my best at being non chalant with her but she is so different and there has been so much resentment building that I did have a talk with her last night at the bar. I know not a good idea but sh*t happens. She has a lot of gay male aquaintences and a best friend Jesse (a guy) that is straight that I am good friends with.

 

I got back in town Saturday and asked her what she was up to for the night. She text me and says my Jesse (her best guy friend) is taking me on a date since I have not been on one in a while. I love him so much! Were sitting down to eat will text in a bit if we go out. I thought to myself, really! have not been on one in a while? How about the John Mayer concert we went to lasts Friday! I did not tell her that but reponded...cool have fun. Shetext later telling me where they were going to party. I told her I was with friends at another bar and would be over in a bit to meet up. She text back 3 times hurry! Anyways, the next morning she wrote on her fb wall...Had a great time last night, My bestie took me on a date to shoguns and then partied it up like always It really bothered me since I have been taking her on trips, out to dinner and paying for her drinks on numerous occassions when we go out and she has never publicly acknowledge my actions. Additionally, she does not even acknowledge what we have been doing as dating.

 

So her and I went out alone on Sunday night and went to a gay bar with great dance music. She knows a lot of gay guys and they lover her! They kept grabbiing her all night and off she would go dancing with them and leave me standing there for 15 min at a time. I was starting to feel bad and disrespected. She would let them grab her butt and grind with them and it was getting to me. After about 2 hours of this I told her as calmly as I could...something like... are you really going to let all these guys you hardly know touch you like that and leave me standiing her by myself. She said let's go up stairs and talk. She was concerned about how I was feeling.

 

I just told her look, I am not a jealous person and you know it. I just don't like when we come her together that you walk off and dance with all these other guys you hardly know and let them touch you like that and leave me standing here. She said it did not mean anything by them touching her that way, they are gay and are just like girls to her, not a threat. She see's them as her girlfriends nothing more. Said she gets carried away sometimes and did not mean to ignore me. I said it's cool, now let's go dance.

 

Well she wanted to come spend the night so I said OK. When we got to the house she wanted to talk a little more about everything. I told her the truth. Look, it's not a big deal. I just would like to feel a little more appreciated. Told her you give more affection to gay guys you barely know and Jesse than you do me, matter of fact you almost act as if you are embarrassed of me and hiding our closeness from people. I am the one taking you out and sleeping with you. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You have been pretty sarcastic lately and have not even said thank you for all the dates I have taken you on. You don't even acknowledge they are dates.

 

She said she was sorry and it wasn't that she didn't appreciate it. Said that she just gets excited when she see's her friends and gay guys she has not seen for awhile and it may look like she is giving them more affection but that is not how it is. Said she is just so comfortable with me that sometimes she just gets sarcastic cuz that's how we are. Said she can't do this with anyone else without them getting offended. I told her I was fine with it and enjoyed our banter but at times she should say thank you and be more affectionate.

 

The reality is she does not hardly even know these gay guys and it feels bad when she shows them all this affection when I get none really in public. I understand now that she looks at these gay guys as "safe" but do I really want to keep myself in this position, investing in someone that has this type of personality? Someone that won't even call it a date when we go out, take trips? I deserve better!

 

She did tell me today... you are special to me when she left and gave me a big two armed hug which she has not been doing for awhile now. I have been getting the one armed side hug. Ugh...So maybe she really does care.

 

I hope I did not blow my non chalance too badly. I just could not go any longer allowing her to treat me this way without addressing it. I think there is a time when you have to say something or the bitterness just becomes too much. Now I have to decide if I want to continue pursuing her. I am not sure the emotional investment is worth it anymore. She wants to go on a trip with me to Florida in a month for 5 days. Not sure I want to keep investing. Any thoughts?

 

I left this out... we all went to breakfast after going out on Saturday and I gave eveyone a hug and went home. She texts me about an hour later....I don't understand your responses... I text back in the morning...I have no idea what your talking about lol. I had a blast last night. Then she called me in the morning and said I did not give her a big enough hug when I left last night. I said OK, I will give you a bigger hug next time. She said you better! This is so stupid.

[J-L-T]

What about the ex who never initiates contact? Coming up on 3 months..and not a shred of contact!

 

Well, most people would probably say stay NC. But, if you really think you can handle contact? You might have to get the ball rolling and initiate. That depends if you're really against doing that or not.

[CrapAtNC]

Wow! So many posts to catch up on, which I will. Guys, just remember, I only have my opinion; I'm not an expert. But I do offer the best advice I can.

 

But I'm with my ex right now; we're about to head out for a swim in the mountain river near our home. It's not easy swimming nonchalantly, but as long as I keep my head above water!

 

I will respond to all the posts later. But let's try a little exercise: Those of you who are asking advice, imagine you are me; then answer your own questions. I'll give you my feedback after that. I'm doing this because I believe you all know what you should or should not be doing (or should not have done). Try it. Answer your own question for me. I'll be online again in about four hours and will mark your papers then. ;-)

 

Live-N-Learn, I have had the exact same experience as you, so I know where you're coming from. I can offer some advice there. But advise yourself in the meantime.

 

Have a nonchalant evening, all.

[VinnieMarlboro]

Righto I'll have a go @ being Crap!

 

It sounds to me - you are plan B. She is keeping you close enough in case she 'wants' you. She has the carrot dangling and you are the donkey chasing it. Been there myself and I even thought I had finally caught it, only to have it ripped off me again.

 

Pull back!

 

She craves attention. Attention that you alone can not satisfy - I would (and am) saying good luck to the next guy.

Look at the nightclub situation from someone elses perspective - ie - if you went to a nightclub and witnessed another couple doing what you pair were doing - what would you think?

 

You have made it pretty clear that you do not accept this behaviour but she continues, and will continue, to do it.

 

Ask yourself - Do I want my girl doing this?

 

Mine too, made a hurtful FB comment - we were back together at this stage. She went to some(her new) friends one sat night. I was at home, but not invited, and did not see her all w/e due to work. She posts up ' Had a great w/e, good friends, good wine - what more could a girl want'. A husband maybe. It turns out she never told this group of friends we were together - no wonder I didnt get an invite. She was keeping me a secret. No public aknowledgement = plan B

 

You are showing her you care to much.You are giving her emotional support and an ego boost - let her gay friends give her that. She just has to click her fingers and you come running. Maybe start with 'having other plans' for the Florida holiday. Text her -Sorry cant go - somethings come up. Leave it at that and dont elaborate or respond. I'll bet you asked her to go with you - not the other way round! I wish I had a 'friend' like you - taking me on trips, buying me drinks and I dont even have to put out! If you are committed to going - take someone else.

 

I think you have to go back to NC and decide whether she is worth it.

 

You appear to have many doubts as it is and your answer is right there.

 

PS - i am not homophobic and do have some gay friends, who actually have given me great support during this time.

[mr_zanon]

Look at the nightclub situation from someone elses perspective - ie - if you went to a nightclub and witnessed another couple doing what you pair were doing - what would you think?

 

You have made it pretty clear that you do not accept this behaviour but she continues, and will continue, to do it.

 

Ask yourself - Do I want my girl doing this?

I must say I totally agree with this.

[Live-N-Learn]

Hey Vinnie,

 

Much of what you say it right on. We have been sleeping together for the past 3 months. I am the only one she is psuedo dating or whatever you want to call it. She said she is not ready to date right now but may be in 6 months. She won't call it a date with me but has no problem with me taking her out and then coming home and sleeping with me. She justifies her actions at the gay club cuz all the guys are safe "like girlfriends" and see's nothing wrong with it. One of the gays guys asked her last night if I was her boyfriend and I could see the wheels turning in her head how to respond. She goes it's Scott, that's all she said. She can't even classify what we are or are not. Either can I, it's retarded.

 

Yes, I have to go to Florida for work and she is trying to get the time off to go with me. I think I will not mention it again and if she does, I think I will tell her I don't think it's a good idea or something like that.

 

As for the nightclub deal you are so right. She is a very attractive girl and a great dancer but deep down is obviously insecure and needs the attention of men, gays, women everyone! I think she gets her affirmation by the attention she gets from people. We broke up in January and she went right into another relationship. Matter of fact the 6 months we were apart she was with 3 different guys. She can not be alone. She has only had 3 relationships in her life over 2 months, I was her 3rd longest. She is a serial dater and committment phobe in my opinion. If I pull back and stop sleeping with her she will sleep with someone else I am sure of it.

 

I went NC on her for 10 weeks before reconnecting 3 months ago. I tried to show her what we could have together if we tried again. It is clear now that it is not what she wants. She wants me to treat her like a girlfriend without any responsibility for my feelings or needs. Not a good spot for me to be in at all. It is causing me to grow in bitterness and resentment.

 

This is really more about her not me. She is the one with the problem but I now need to take care of me. I have no regrets for trying again but I have nothing left to prove or show to her. I did my best. I now need to decide how to move forward. I am no longer happy or feeling good about where I am at with her. The emotional toll is just too much with very little return on the investment.

 

Honestly I am thinking of moving from Tulsa to D.C. that is where my corporate office is at. I really just want to start my life over. I may need to do it just to get away from her. My head knows she is no good for me and this is going nowhere..just can't get my heart to act on it. Ugh...

[VinnieMarlboro]

I havnt learnt how to quote properly here so I'll stick to cut n pasting.

 

She won't call it a date with me but has no problem with me taking her out and then coming home and sleeping with me.

Are you happy with this or do you want more?

 

She justifies her actions at the gay club cuz all the guys are safe "like girlfriends" and see's nothing wrong with it.

My EX thought txting another guy 30 times a day without telling me was OK too! But I didnt. How do you feel about it? ( I think we know)

You were in the nightclub and I'm presuming you are not gay!

 

If I pull back and stop sleeping with her she will sleep with someone else I am sure of it.

 

Dunno what to say here - cant stop shaking my head. So what? Let her and more importantly - let you!

This reaks of fear - let her go. Sex is a big component of any relationship but it aint the be all and end all. We had a great sex life, even the day b4 she asked me to leave. When we got back together it was like we never missed a beat. But there is a lot more to it than that. She seems to want you as FWB - do you want her like this?

 

 

This is really more about her not me. She is the one with the problem but I now need to take care of me. I have no regrets for trying again but I have nothing left to prove or show to her. I did my best. I now need to decide how to move forward. I am no longer happy or feeling good about where I am at with her. The emotional toll is just too much with very little return on the investment.

 

She is not going to give you want you want, let alone need. Take pride in that you have tried your best. By continuing to be friends with her, you are never going to move on. You are excluding other possibilities from your life. As they say, you never know whats around the corner. If you still have the blinkers on, you will never round that corner.

 

I really just want to start my life over. I may need to do it just to get away from her. My head knows she is no good for me and this is going nowhere..just can't get my heart to act on it. Ugh...

 

I feel the same. Unfortunately, we have 3 kids together. I can not move away from them. I have had to restart my new life, for the 2nd time this year.

I too have major heart over head issues aswell. The best way for me is convincing my heart that my head is right using logical and rational questions and statements that focus on the negatives of her and the relationship.

ie -She does not want me the way I want her- so can I ever truly make her happy?

I cant 'force' her to change her behaviour.

If she does change her behaviour for me - she will then resent me for that and will not be happy anyway and will always be looking for more elsewhere.

My girl does not need to dance and carry on with a group of strangers to feel good about herself.

I have certain values - her behaviour contradicts these on so many levels.

etc etc

 

Make up some for yourself.

 

Letting her go is the first step to Inner Happiness. Once you achieve you IH anything can happen, but until then you are stagnating in an emotional minefield.

[oceanblue535]

Crap,

 

You crack me up. That is all

 

Because, who cares? haha

[Live-N-Learn]

Live-N-Learn, I have had the exact same experience as you, so I know where you're coming from. I can offer some advice there. But advise yourself in the meantime.

 

Would really like to hear your thoughts on my situation as able. Thanks. Hope you had a good night swimming!

[Live-N-Learn]

Vinnie,

 

No I am not Ok with FWB...I want an exclusive relationship with her. I settled when we first started hanging out again. I thought it woud develop into more.

 

You are correct, I am not gay.

 

Agreed, she will never be able to give me what I want or need. At a mimimum she is not willing.

 

I want to be friends with her but I can't. Breaking away is going to be very emotional and painful for the short term. It won't be as hard as the first time.

 

I really like your verbal affirmation...I will write some out for myself

 

I am not OK with her actions at the club. The reality is that it's not going to change and I can not ask her to change.

 

So unless I am willing to settle for being at best a FWB that gets no public affection, that gets to watch her grind on gay guys and get felt up by them, am OK with being used financial, then my only option is to go NC.

 

Update..ugh my emotional vampire ex just text me. It's 1:00 am and she is home asking me if I am still up. She now just sent a second text try to be nice. She texts...Im in bed now trying to go to sleep. My body is forcing me to stay up, saying, like aren't you supposed to be drinking? The night calls my name and when I don't answer it upsetens it Now a third text. Have a good nights sleep my special werdo...see I'm doing better, I told you that you were special

[VinnieMarlboro]

LNL - Oh man. Gotta say - I'd be round there in a flash putting her to sleep! No self control from here. Well I would have said that, until I have educated myself here with the help of so many others. So stay strong or better still, nonchalant! maybe reply with - Well I would like to come and cuddle you to sleep - but u know my bed is far more comfortable and its even better than yours - cause I'm in it already!

 

I dont want to tell you what do - it is your life. Just to get you to ascertain what you want. If my Ex suddenly rings up and asks me back again - well that would be a tough decision.

 

I agree the 2nd time is no where near the same as the first. The pain and frustration are still there, but I have already dealt with a lot of crap that I dont have to again. Is it easier? hmmm - dont really know - the healing process is so much faster tho as I was in a better position within myself than I was the 1st time.

 

de friending is a difficult thing aswell - a mandatory action IMO though.

 

I thought i would share a previous post of mine - I'm hoping this will also solidify your own beliefs -

 

Having already done this without the benefit of counselling or these boards, Im just going to do a list of this things which I have done, or better still, came to terms with -

( By no means is this a complete list -anyone else who would like to contribute( list & descriptions) will be greatly appreciated.)

I think we are all a work in progress and we should strive to improve ourselves everyday.

I have used mainly examples of post break up - as thats where I am.

 

ACCEPTANCE - accept it is over.

 

For me the qualities I needed are -trust, respect, willingness to do things for each other & friendship. She was no longer prepared to give these to me. I considered these the foundation stones of what we had. IHO, the rest of the house had been torn down long ago????

Since I am a nice, hard working respectful individual - how can I 'force' someone to afford me these desires if they dont want to?

Accept that she/he does not 'want' to provide you with your the foundation stones!

 

LET IT GO - embrace that acceptance. Remove yourself from the relationship. Dont blame anyone - because really -who cares whose fault the breakdown was?

It was the relationship that failed - NOT YOU!!!!!!!

I carried the blame and guilt for 2 years because she put it on me and I accepted that. Well I am here to tell you all now - I am not accepting that anymore.

No one but the two involved know the truth - and as we've seen on this forum - individual perceptions have the capacity to distort the truth.

 

REBUILDING ONES SELF - I will use my foundation stones -

Can I trust myself - No I cant. I was the one who kept letting myself(and others) down by doing those stupid break up sins. Arguing everytime I could, pressuring her every moment I could, snooping, asking unanswerable qustions and that list does go on.

So until I can(could) trust myself - how can I expect anyone else to?

 

Can I respect myself - No I cant. How can I respect someone who has a set of rules and can not live up to them? I have a certain set of standards, morals, expectations and values that make me who I am. These have changed, and are constantly changing due to the world in which we live and the experiences we do endure. I have to now re-evaluate who I am(a divorcee) and adjust my definitions of respect and strive to live up to those.

 

WILLINGNESS TO HELP OTHERS - Do I really help others with a smile on my face? Not really. This is probably the easiest. Just say 'yes'. Yep, just like Jim Carey's movie. Going through this situation I think -I'm not a happy person to be with. Who really wants to anything with me? My kids for a start - they dont care/know what I'm thinking. They dont understand what being supportive is all about, they're to young, but they never miss an opportunity to be with me. My friends - they are supportive and try and help. Think about friends of yours in a similar situation - would you turn your back on them? No - thats why they are friends. Be grateful for them and do things with, and more importantly for them. You make someone else happy and you get the benefit of feeling good. See you can make others happy and it aint to hard - great for the self esteem which has taken a battering no doubt.

 

FRIENDSHIP - Am I a good friend - well not to my X. As the saying goes - 'You can chose your friends, but not your relatives' OK then - why do you choose to be someones friend? Communication, intrests, values, work, neighbors, kids,church - this list really can go on forever. But it comes back to you - they chose to be your friend aswell because they LIKE YOU! They are not going to abandon you(some may cause they're friends with the X - but thats their choice dont begrudge them for that). They want to help - its only human nature. Why, cause they get a kick out of doing something for the people they care about. They give you support, advice and a sense of well being - You are liked. Because you are a good person. Its no good just saying this you must believe it.

 

 

You can see from this, I am not a trained professional in these areas.

They are just suggestions - they may help working for you and they may not

 

I think LNL - if you can define your foundation stones and see whether both of you are willing to give them to each other - perhaps a clearer picture will emerge for you.

[Strife]

So as promised, an update

 

So as I've mentioned in another thread, my ex has come back into my life, and for the next year, she will have major role in my life as one of my 3 housemates in my house at university.

 

Now initially in my NC, I realised that in coming accross as not caring, I was also coming accross as a bit of a jerk, as I was effectively ignoring her in our social circle (prehaps explaining her need for attention? Who cares )

 

Regardless of this, I received a text from her, from downstairs, and I went down to talk to her about it, this lead to us talking for about an hour, cooking dinner, cuddling etc on the bed, watching TV. She even slept with me in my bed, kissed me (except on the lips). The next day we went to get groceries, made dinner, hung out the majority of the day and night. Things developed, and she got upset, because we were getting too close, and that we'd get hurt again; that she wanted to be friends, and that she wanted to be single - despite the fact that much to my amusement, our social circle believe we've reconciled, due to how lovey she was acting.

She asked me what I thought on the subject, and I cooly explained that I still had feelings, that 'this' would complicate future relationships, yet still maintained my composure, suggesting slightly to work on things. After a little while, she offered her hand and said 'friends?'. So I quickly took it, made joke, laughed about it, and completely changed the quite heavy atmosphere. After that I just slipped into NC (better than before) making jokes, winding her up, and just being myself, like the earlier events had never occurred.

I could be reading into this, but she cancelled her trip out today with her friends (which she was super stoked for and wouldn't stop talking about yesterday), to text me to ask me if we could go sort out house related stuff (which would mean hanging out). So I think NC definitely does work, even if all it does is lighten the mood. The best thing I've found about it, is that even though I effectively got rejected, after holding out for such a long time, I don't actually care that she doesn't want a relationship with me. But I'm going to focus on not being so available to her, disappearing without saying where I'm going to etc.

[CrapAtNC]

Thanks so much for that Crap.... I was just about to call him - and I have not really been that tempted to call him before now, but this time I felt really vulnerable because I let my guard down (although I feel better because I let myself 'feel' something if that makes sense). I am so glad I read your post before I did so. It is now half an hour into my 31st birthday so a good time to get back on the horse, so to speak. I am a big girl now - and also one hell of a catch. If he doesn't come back for me, he wants his head looking at

 

x

 

Happy birthday! And your new attitude is exactly what's called for. We only have ourselves to blame if we settle for anything less than we deserve.

 

Sooner or later NC will mean NonChalance instead of No Contact...

 

Yeah, I see that happening already; it's getting so confusing. I wish I'd called it something else now, like Not Caring . . . oh, wait . . .

 

Crap at NC

 

I hear what you are saying. I know I have to stop running to him. If I decline he probably will just never ask me again oh well. I still miss him a lot and feel like I can't breathe sometimes. I am having a hard time imagining being with someone else but I will have to try and push myself. For the most part I only responded to his texts and calls but a few times when I thought we were back together I let my guard down and initiated texts. When we were a couple he used to call me every day sometimes a few times and now when he calls me its very brief almost like he stops himself and is following your manual. haha I can't believe he doesn't miss talking to me we talked soo much. ok so just go LC like don't initiate any text to him to tell him that I agree with him that we should just focus on ourselves or something like that? also if he does contact me how can I let him know how nonchalant I am?

 

He would miss talking to you if you just gave him a chance to. It's not easy, I know, but you need to pull back a bit if you want to start pulling him in. LC will work just fine for you. Respond occasionally, casually, and nonchalantly. Do not make first contact at all. He must start to see that he may lose you if he doesn't get his act together.

 

Crap, My ex broke up with me almost a month ago, and would initiate contact every few days, asked me to see him a couple of times (which I nicely declined). About a week and a half ago, I asked him to please not contact me unless it's to reconcile, as I need time to heal and take care of myself, and that I would contact him when ready to be around him as just friends. I ended up initiating contact two days ago, and he responded positively and was friendly, ask how I was doing. He's still not initiating contact, which is what I asked him to do (unless to reconcile...). So, when I'm ready, do I not initiate contact when I feel I'm in a better place to be around him? What if he never initiates it because he doesn't want me to think he's reaching out to reconcile? Is there a way to nonchalantly tell him that he can contact me, that I won't think it's him trying to reconcile? Just confused on how to go about this.

 

Some might wonder, why would I not just leave the ball in his court, then? I have changes I need to make about myself, as I was needy, insecure, which was so unattractive, and my insecurity issues strained us this summer, basically. It's like I want to make the changes for me, but maybe I'd like him to have the opportunity to see my progress and improvement.

 

Well, I think it's fine to initiate contact if time has passed and you really are in a better place. The problem is that you told him he mustn't contact you unless he wants to reconcile. You have to find a way to negate that. Be careful, though, as one of the most unattractive things we can do is make a rule and then not stick to it. Perhaps you can make a joke out of it: tell him the rule still stands, but that doesn't mean you can't call him every now and again to catch up.

 

Awww, I was hoping you wouldn't say that! But, yes, you're right. I initiated contact last time. We had a friendly enough chat, said how we're getting on. So now it's a waiting game. We text back-and-forth a good few texts. He then said he's running out of credit though...is that a bad sign? He also said sorry if he got nasty about the break-up. Which is...good...is it?

 

Don't read signs. Don't listen to what they say. None of it means what we think it does. Just stay on track. It's like you're on a path and people are trying to trick you off it. Don't let them; ignore the false signs. The only thing you know and can control right now is you, so do that.

 

What about the ex who never initiates contact? Coming up on 3 months..and not a shred of contact!

 

If you think you can keep things brief, light-hearted, upbeat, and nonchalant, then go for it, I say; enough water has passed under the bridge. Just prepare your responses for any news that might otherwise throw you for six. If you think you'll react badly to bad news or a nasty attitude from your ex, then take some more time before initiating.

 

Anyways, the next morning she wrote on her fb wall...Had a great time last night, My bestie took me on a date to shoguns and then partied it up like always It really bothered me since I have been taking her on trips, out to dinner and paying for her drinks on numerous occassions when we go out and she has never publicly acknowledge my actions.

 

A real (nonchalant) man expects NOTHING in return for his actions, no matter how kind and generous they are.

 

After about 2 hours of this I told her as calmly as I could...something like... are you really going to let all these guys you hardly know touch you like that and leave me standiing her by myself.

 

Very needy, wussy, and non-nonchalant. You may not like it, but playing the victim like that will only work against you later. My ex was a big-time salsa dancer. I had to watch a lot of guys (gay and straight) dance sensually with her, and I knew I had to clear all jealous thoughts from my head. This was her world, and I had no right to complain about that. Actually, I learned to man up and enjoy that I was the man taking home the girl all the other guys wanted. It was great for me; I learned to combat my jealousy. But if you really don't like her doing that, something has to give, and it might not necessarily be her.

 

I just told her look, I am not a jealous person and you know it. I just don't like when we come her together that you walk off and dance with all these other guys you hardly know and let them touch you like that and leave me standing here. She said it did not mean anything by them touching her that way, they are gay and are just like girls to her, not a threat. She see's them as her girlfriends nothing more. Said she gets carried away sometimes and did not mean to ignore me. I said it's cool, now let's go dance.

 

Well she wanted to come spend the night so I said OK. When we got to the house she wanted to talk a little more about everything. I told her the truth. Look, it's not a big deal. I just would like to feel a little more appreciated. Told her you give more affection to gay guys you barely know and Jesse than you do me, matter of fact you almost act as if you are embarrassed of me and hiding our closeness from people. I am the one taking you out and sleeping with you. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You have been pretty sarcastic lately and have not even said thank you for all the dates I have taken you on. You don't even acknowledge they are dates.

 

She said she was sorry and it wasn't that she didn't appreciate it. Said that she just gets excited when she see's her friends and gay guys she has not seen for awhile and it may look like she is giving them more affection but that is not how it is. Said she is just so comfortable with me that sometimes she just gets sarcastic cuz that's how we are. Said she can't do this with anyone else without them getting offended. I told her I was fine with it and enjoyed our banter but at times she should say thank you and be more affectionate.

 

The reality is she does not hardly even know these gay guys and it feels bad when she shows them all this affection when I get none really in public. I understand now that she looks at these gay guys as "safe" but do I really want to keep myself in this position, investing in someone that has this type of personality? Someone that won't even call it a date when we go out, take trips? I deserve better!

 

She did tell me today... you are special to me when she left and gave me a big two armed hug which she has not been doing for awhile now. I have been getting the one armed side hug. Ugh...So maybe she really does care.

 

I hope I did not blow my non chalance too badly. I just could not go any longer allowing her to treat me this way without addressing it. I think there is a time when you have to say something or the bitterness just becomes too much. Now I have to decide if I want to continue pursuing her. I am not sure the emotional investment is worth it anymore. She wants to go on a trip with me to Florida in a month for 5 days. Not sure I want to keep investing. Any thoughts?

 

I left this out... we all went to breakfast after going out on Saturday and I gave eveyone a hug and went home. She texts me about an hour later....I don't understand your responses... I text back in the morning...I have no idea what your talking about lol. I had a blast last night. Then she called me in the morning and said I did not give her a big enough hug when I left last night. I said OK, I will give you a bigger hug next time. She said you better! This is so stupid.

 

A lot of neediness here. You need to find a way to make you guys 'official' without coming accross so wussy (meant in the nicest possible way).

 

Crap,

 

You crack me up. That is all

 

Because, who cares? haha

 

Whatever.

 

Live-N-Learn, I have had the exact same experience as you, so I know where you're coming from. I can offer some advice there. But advise yourself in the meantime.

 

Would really like to hear your thoughts on my situation as able. Thanks. Hope you had a good night swimming!

 

It was morning here. I'm on the other side of the world from most of you guys. And, yes, the swimming was awesome.

 

So as promised, an update

 

So as I've mentioned in another thread, my ex has come back into my life, and for the next year, she will have major role in my life as one of my 3 housemates in my house at university.

 

Now initially in my NC, I realised that in coming accross as not caring, I was also coming accross as a bit of a jerk, as I was effectively ignoring her in our social circle (prehaps explaining her need for attention? Who cares)

 

Regardless of this, I received a text from her, from downstairs, and I went down to talk to her about it, this lead to us talking for about an hour, cooking dinner, cuddling etc on the bed, watching TV. She even slept with me in my bed, kissed me (except on the lips). The next day we went to get groceries, made dinner, hung out the majority of the day and night. Things developed, and she got upset, because we were getting too close, and that we'd get hurt again; that she wanted to be friends, and that she wanted to be single - despite the fact that much to my amusement, our social circle believe we've reconciled, due to how lovey she was acting.

She asked me what I thought on the subject, and I cooly explained that I still had feelings, that 'this' would complicate future relationships, yet still maintained my composure, suggesting slightly to work on things. After a little while, she offered her hand and said 'friends?'. So I quickly took it, made joke, laughed about it, and completely changed the quite heavy atmosphere. After that I just slipped into NC (better than before) making jokes, winding her up, and just being myself, like the earlier events had never occurred.

I could be reading into this, but she cancelled her trip out today with her friends (which she was super stoked for and wouldn't stop talking about yesterday), to text me to ask me if we could go sort out house related stuff (which would mean hanging out). So I think NC definitely does work, even if all it does is lighten the mood. The best thing I've found about it, is that even though I effectively got rejected, after holding out for such a long time, I don't actually care that she doesn't want a relationship with me. But I'm going to focus on not being so available to her, disappearing without saying where I'm going to etc.

 

NC is No Contact. Nonchalance is just Nonchalance. Don't get them confused.

 

Nonchalance doesn't mean not caring about them; it's about not caring about what happens or is said to you. You can show you care; just don't do it in a stifling, smothering, needy way.

 

I completely agree that now is the perfect time to be less available. You also need her to see that you are valuable/desirable to others. I will doing exactly the same thing this coming few weeks, so let's support each other here. I've been sticking around because I needed to make more of an impression on her (we only dated seriously for a month). Now I'll be focusing more on dating others and doing other life-improving stuff. I'll still see her, but far, far less than before, and I'll be certain to keep it more brief in light of my new priorities.