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Nonchalance is Your Friend


CrapAtNC

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Crap,

 

That sounds awesome. You're playing it cool brotha! I like the push-pull theory. I am also a big David D fan.

 

My GIRL CALLED ME!!!

 

After 5 days of NC, she left me a message this morning. She said she wanted help with her resume because she used to work for me before and that she wanted to talk...She started the voicemail with HONEY, which I think is a good sign.

 

She wanted my "permission" to put it on her resume, which she knows its already ok.

 

I didn't call her back right away. I was truly busy.

 

I re-read what you said, be upbeat, quick, non-needy and end the convo first.

 

I called her back, in an upbeat tone, said hi!

 

We talked about her English improving, I told her right away that I couldn't talk long. We talked and laughed and I mostly let her speak. She said she was happy to hear my voice. I let her know I was going to Vegas for my company. She said she was jealous and then I said, Have a nice weekend and then hung up.

 

No relationship talk, no I love you, no whining, no plans to call her again, nothing. I felt REALLY good about it!

 

Thanks MAN! I hope this was a great first step for her to see that I'm different and that I'm not trying to crowd her anymore.

 

My next step is NC again. No texts or calls. Let her chase me.

 

She even told me during our "I need space" talk, that she felt like I was chasing her and she didn't like it. She wanted to walk, WITH ME, side by side.

 

Anyhow, thanks again... I actually FEEL so much better and am still working on myself ALOT to be a better man, FOR HER AND FOR ME!!!

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Hey, guys, I've had a great day today reading some of your success stories as a result of adopting nonchalance. It's really such a healthier way to glide through life.

 

Congrats to all those who have changed their ways, and especially to those who have reignited attraction in their ex. Make sure you keep it up. If you slip, as we all can, just brush it off and carry on.

 

Looking forward to hearing how this has worked for more of you.

 

All the best,

 

 

Crap

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Crap,

 

I really want her to know I love her. I didn't tell her over the phone call.

 

Can I text her?

 

Goodnight babe. i love you.

 

Or will that mess up my hard work over the last 5 days of NC?

 

I don't want her to think that I've moved on. I don't want her to be seeing or dating other guys.

 

I'm not asking for anything from her, but just letting her know how i feel.

 

What do you think? I'm a little concerned that if I don't, she'll think I don't care about her at all and was just being nice.

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Ok - I am in a tough position. Recap - broke up twice, 15 year marriage now finally headed for divorce. I broke ALL the BU rules which pushed her over the line.

Was re reading this post when she rings - re kids.

 

We talk about them and nothing else. Should I engage her in casual conservation about her?

Have been doing NC for 21 days now(I never contact her, always thru kids and she has rung a cpl of times and stick strictly to kids). I am happy, laugh and joke- usually its cause kids are in trbl at school/posting swear words on FB.

 

This call was for my eldest(15) who broke up with G/F(must run in family) a cpl of weeks ago. He goes to a party last night and she acts like a sl*t in his words. Previously woulda said something like - hmm gee I know how he feels - but refrained.

 

I suppose, I'm asking how to get her to talk about herself, without it being threatening or breaking my NC rules?

 

So I can show her nonchalance. My goal here is to be in control of our situation, as it stands, I dont even know if I really want her back or not. I am aware it is going a tough long road from here, but if I'm in control it is then up to me.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

PS - I am going on a date tonight - have been working her for a cpl of weeks. i have her on the hook, just gotta reel her in. I look at what I have been doing with her - nonchalance. I just dont really care what happens with us, I am aloof when I talk to her, dont pressure her into anything and give the impression nothing really fazes me. So folks it does really work.

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Crap,

 

I really want her to know I love her. I didn't tell her over the phone call.

 

Can I text her?

 

Goodnight babe. i love you.

 

Or will that mess up my hard work over the last 5 days of NC?

 

I don't want her to think that I've moved on. I don't want her to be seeing or dating other guys.

 

I'm not asking for anything from her, but just letting her know how i feel.

 

What do you think? I'm a little concerned that if I don't, she'll think I don't care about her at all and was just being nice.

 

okane24, saying 'I love you' at a time like this will have the opposite effect, I promise. She knows you love her. The reason she called you yesterday is because you have been kind enough to give her space. Sending sweet messages takes that away. We think it's for them, but, really, it's for us; it's manipulation, and they can feel that a mile off.

 

Keep on doing nothing. Nothing works, as you have seen. Give her space.

 

Ok - I am in a tough position. Recap - broke up twice, 15 year marriage now finally headed for divorce. I broke ALL the BU rules which pushed her over the line.

Was re reading this post when she rings - re kids.

 

We talk about them and nothing else. Should I engage her in casual conservation about her?

Have been doing NC for 21 days now(I never contact her, always thru kids and she has rung a cpl of times and stick strictly to kids). I am happy, laugh and joke- usually its cause kids are in trbl at school/posting swear words on FB.

 

This call was for my eldest(15) who broke up with G/F(must run in family) a cpl of weeks ago. He goes to a party last night and she acts like a sl*t in his words. Previously woulda said something like - hmm gee I know how he feels - but refrained.

 

I suppose, I'm asking how to get her to talk about herself, without it being threatening or breaking my NC rules?

 

So I can show her nonchalance. My goal here is to be in control of our situation, as it stands, I dont even know if I really want her back or not. I am aware it is going a tough long road from here, but if I'm in control it is then up to me.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

PS - I am going on a date tonight - have been working her for a cpl of weeks. i have her on the hook, just gotta reel her in. I look at what I have been doing with her - nonchalance. I just dont really care what happens with us, I am aloof when I talk to her, dont pressure her into anything and give the impression nothing really fazes me. So folks it does really work.

 

Hey, Vinnie.

 

Seems like you've been doing pretty well. Take a step back to look at your situation and you'll realise that you have a much better chance of reconciliation than most others because you and your wife have much more invested. The posts that sadden me the most are the ones that involve marriage, very lengthy relationships, or kids. They are also the ones that give me most hope.

 

Forget about any mistakes you made in the past. If you tried to hard early on in the BU it would have gone against you at the time but will benefit you later, as your ex will of course completely understand that she really is important to you, even if you did show it in a wussy way.

 

You ask about wanting to ask her questions about her. I've come to realize that almost ANY question is a bad idea, as it will be seen as pushy and possibly manipulative by your ex. No questions from now on. If you want to see if she'd like to talk, you can instead say things like "I hope you're doing OK" rather than "Are you OK", "Let me know if you need any help with the kids" rather than "Do you need help with the kids", etc. Questions sound needy and weak. Be more assertive and non-needy at this point. Plus, if she wants to talk about herself, she will do it more easily if she feels it's her own idea and not from even mild pressure from you.

 

You could also try trusting her ability to make choices and get by in life--I found this to be a very powerful technique: tell her you know she'll be fine, you're sure she'll do just great, or even that you have no doubt she'll let you know if she needs anything. It really assures them that we care but also trust their abilities. It's subtle but it works in that it makes them feel more like opening up, as you are not trying to do anything for you.

 

You can also try empathy. I said this in an earlier post but I think it's worth repeating (and I apologize for the generalization): women don't usually want you to solve their problems; they just want someone who will listen. With that in mind, if she tells you what your trouble-making kids have been up to, tell her how you think she must feel about that, that you wish you could magically fix everything, and that you know everything will be fine because she is a strong woman and a good mum. "You must feel pretty frustrated with the kids playing up like that. I wish there was some magic pill we could give them to turn them into saints . . . but then no one would believe I'm their father (said with a playful smile--they can hear smiles on the phone). They're growing up and going through a difficult phase. It's crappy right now, but in the end, they'll be fine, you'll be fine, I'll be fine. We'll all be OK. You're a strong woman." Something like that (written after I just woke up and still need the bathroom, so for god's sake don't use it word for word but rather get the gist and practice in your head saying things like this naturally).

 

You did really well not to take a cheap shot when your wife talked about your son's relationship problem. That's not easy, but I think you know that, if reconciliation is your goal, the problems need to be handled properly and not with emotion any more.

 

If you want control at this point, then give her more control. A woman who is not pressured, who is trusted, and who is not bothered by neediness will be much more open. And we cannot control any situation until we first have control of ourselves, our emotions, and our responses. You're doing great, and you will find that things are easier to handle and take where you want once you've used a little more nonchalance to break down resistance.

 

Glad you're going on a date. Don't do anything you're not ready for. I don't know your situation, but if your ex is seeing someone, then allow yourself the same if the woman knows the score and no one is going to get hurt. If your wife is not seeing anyone right now, I'd keep the dating nonsexual if you want to leave the door of reconciliation open.

 

So, just to recap, if you want her to talk about her, mention her feelings rather than ask, and do so lightly and in very small doses. "I can't imagine how you must feel when that happens" is far better than a direct question.

 

All the best,

 

 

Crap

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Great advice, thanks crap.

 

She is seeing someone(wont dare tell me tho or kids for that matter - tells kids he's like an uncle(F*** me the 1st of many I thought when she told me that 1!)) They are being very discreet and I know if i get involved it will only stregthen their resolve.

Traded down ALOT -older, 8 years on me,broke,larger,not good looking,likes trucks & cars( she never once watched top gear, but will with him) and the list can go on.

Seeing what I was offering and what he is offering - I can see why- I pushed her straight to him. Thats why I dont think it will last. She will have to see this at some stage - but that is a while off even years so Im not holding my breath.

 

Dating - well, I dont know If I really like this woman. There is certainly no connection from my point of view, but she does make me feel good. I dont know if this is genuine or 'its better than being lonely'. Only time will tell that one. No sex yet.

I have been completely honest and upfront with her - no preconceived ideas. I definatley do not want to hurt her or myself - so slow and steady.

 

Just 1 more - I am starting therapy on Wednesday. I would like her(X) to see that even without it, I have changed(not a good word but cant think of another right now). I have learnt in my research how to do a proper apology - clean the slate type of thing- encompassing her feelings and her perspective. ie - what I, and more so my actions, have done to her.

Should I do this now?

Should I wait? (risks that its coming from counsellor)

How should I do it? I'm thinking email. I know she will read it hopefully more than once. I can not see her and break NC(NC for me may mean up to 6 months or more). Calling her - she just may not listen to it.

 

She did say in a text(when we argued last - 2 weeks ago, she rang me on a real bad day).That she thinks I'm playing mind games with her. So I would like to tell her I'm doing NC as I havnt yet - just stopped all communication coming from my direction.

 

Any thoughts most welcome.

 

I can tell you all, if I want to, and do manage to win her back - then you can truly say no case is impossible!

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I don't think any letter, no matter how well worded, is going to work for you right now. I truly believe the best you can do it to work on yourself, enjoy the counseling (I loved mine), and take up some new interests that will benefit your life too in some way.

 

You have to forget about the new guy. I agree with you completely that this won't last. You need to forgive your wife for that and also ask how you may have been responsible--not attributing blame here; I'm helping you accept control of the situation. The pain of her being with another will pass. Your counselor can help with that.

 

Your job now is to show that you are the better man, and that means KNOWING you are the better man, and being the better man, no matter what.

 

Trust me, the best way to show you've changed is to NOT write anything and instead let her see for herself (my ex taught me that important point, bless her). Actions not words, my friend. She will see very clearly, I promise.

 

All the best,

 

 

Crap

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She did say in a text(when we argued last - 2 weeks ago, she rang me on a real bad day).That she thinks I'm playing mind games with her. So I would like to tell her I'm doing NC as I havnt yet - just stopped all communication coming from my direction.

 

Didn't spot this bit earlier.

 

Next time it comes up, state very matter-of-factly that you are just focusing on yourself right now. The only game you'd like to play with her is Bash the Mole. You can take turns in being the mole.

 

This really isn't a game. If she feels you are playing games, though, take a look at your approach. You may be being more reactive than proactive, so she'll think you're just responding to what she does (instead of actually showing that you are moving in your own direction now).

 

By the way, it's fine to tell someone you want them; just must never make them feel that you need them.

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Ok, so I said I would post my 'results' so to speak on here, and I'm not really sure it was as successful as I would have liked.

So as I mentioned before she moved into our shared accommodation, and we all went out with our social group to go clubbing. We were talking normally (this was the first time I had seen her since the break, and was the first time talking to her properly after 1 month NC).

 

I didn't act needy, I had a good time 'without' her, but she seemed to constantly want to make a point of dancing with, hugging and generally flirting with the guys in our group - harmless, as they are 'neutral' I.e they respect that she was my ex, and that the break is still fresh. She'd do this anyway when we were together, just not as much.

 

So really my point is, is that despite her doing this, (and slightly annoying me in my head), and my indifference to it (I didn't react or look at her if she did it), I'm not sure how I could have been more nonchalant - I've sortve been thrown, by how easy she's making the breakup look, that it's not a big deal, although previous experience with her, I know she has an amazing poker face.

Another problem is that next week, we are both alone in the house together for 5 days...we're very limited in things to do - not tv or Internet at the moment, so I think hanging out would perhaps be beneficial, but again, how would I propose, initiate this in a nonchalant way?

 

Thanks for any advice, this is really such a great thread.

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There is no perfect way for thing to develop. The fact that she's trying a little too hard to make you jealous or get your attention, though, is of course a good sign--just not something that should be rewarded, and you did a great job in that regard.

 

Someone posted on here about all the things her ex did and said that made it look very obvious to everyone that he wanted nothing to do with her; it turns out that she would have been better off not even trying to decode the signals, as he is now trying really hard to get her back. The point is, what she does does not matter; what matters is how you react and where you lead this relationship. Simply don't respond. You're doing great.

 

If you want to invite her to do something with you during those five days, remember the no-question rule. Don't ask her to do something with you; instead, tell her you're doing something. Some time later, suggest she tags along. Bring her to your reality instead of looking like you need acceptance from her. "I'm going; you should come" is far more assertive and attractive than "Do you want to come?" Leave a break between mentioning it and suggesting she join you. Also, do stuff by yourself. Keep yourself busy. You have your own life. Try not to just hang out together too long; it will just make her complacent and may even bore her. Never want that. And, don't go to her; mention these things in passing, or when she comes to you.

 

Don't beg. If she says no, you can say it's a shame because she would like it. Then go. Then see what happens.

 

Your job right now is to not do anything wrong rather than try to do everything right, meaning, don't let this time together make her think you are too available or needy or insecure.

 

Above all, prepare for the worst in your mind: the worst things she could do or say, or the worst things that could happen, and practice in your mind how you wil keep your composure and not react to them.

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Solid advice Crap, I'm not going to try and decipher any signal from her, unless it's an explicit one.

 

I'll make sure to come up with inventive excuses to leave the house for a bit.

 

Yes, I've absolutely been working on not reacting, on imagining her doing these sort of things in my face, I really, really want to keep my composure.

 

In terms of just talking to her at a normal one on one level, what would you suggest? I'm still finding my feet on this, playing it cool, being myself, but in nonchalant terms, is that enough?

 

And last question, would it be out of the question to be seen hitting on other people...not to take it further, just me talking to other girls could be seen as making her jealous in return; I.e caring about her flirty actions.

 

Thanks Crap, I really appreciate the advice

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In terms of just talking to her at a normal one on one level, what would you suggest? I'm still finding my feet on this, playing it cool, being myself, but in nonchalant terms, is that enough?

 

And last question, would it be out of the question to be seen hitting on other people...not to take it further, just me talking to other girls could be seen as making her jealous in return; I.e caring about her flirty actions.

 

Just make it fun. If you can make her laugh, then you will have drastically raised her attraction to you. Think of playful responses to the kind of stuff she might say. Watch a funny movie so you have something to laugh about later. Tease her--this is a great one. If she says something that you can make fun of, then do it, playfully.

 

But, most of all, don't try hard. If you have nothing to say, that's fine. Just keep smiling like you know something she doesn't. She will be intrigued.

 

I think it's better for her to see that other women find you attractive rather than you find other women attractive. The best scenario for you is to have girls come talk to you and you play it cool with them--be nonchalant here too. Then you can joke about it later, about how those girls were trying to hit on you. She should raise the subject, not you.

 

Don't play games. Just remain upbeat, confident, and nonchalant. That's all right now.

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My ex is really responding positively to my nonchalance now. I'm even at the stage where I can handle a tough topic with an air of nonchalance; the look of intrigue on her face is incredible--she literally turns to look deep into my eyes with an air of interest and attraction. She loves it.

 

She's now seeing the new guy less; I know, because she's my next-door neighbour. And she's asking non-stop if we can spend more time together, everything from language exchange to babysitting together to drinks at my place to dinner at hers to . . . it doesn't stop. I agree to maybe one third and playfully decline the rest. She now keeps trying to get me to hang out more at the restaurant she works at (yes, she's a successful actress but still does the cliched waiting job on the side, mostly because she loves the environment). I say no almost every time. The one thing I don't want to be is so available that she believes she can keep her new guy and still have me there when she wants (needs?) me.

 

She also keeps telling me how one of her friends is trying to get us together (not knowing we were once an item already). She tells me things like "She says when I look at you I have love in my eyes," "You two would make the perfect couple," "You're so much happier when he's around," and "He's a real catch; you must take him while you can." I like that she relates these things to me, but I brush them off playfully (which is why more keep coming).

 

Last night, she was supposed to come to mine with her friend for a drink. I got everything ready, tidied up, and waited, but no sign. I sent a text from my computer, but no response. So I went to hers and asked what happened. She's been trying to call but my phone was dead (it was). They were tired and wanted me to drink at hers instead. I declined, simply because I don't want to hang out at her place while she's with another guy; it also gives her a huge empty space that she will want to fill, and this is probably why she keeps making excuses to get me in there.

 

I was disappointed and tired, so said I'd see her tomorrow and then turned to leave. My disappointment must have shown, because she asked if I was angry. "Do I look angry?" "Yes." I wasn't angry at all, but could see how she must have thought that. My mind raced trying to think up the best nonchalant response. So I walked back to her door, went to kiss her, and as she raised her lips to mine, I switched it to a kiss on the neck and a hug and told her to sleep well and I'll see her tomorrow. I think she liked it. I told her that love in her eyes suited her (in reference to what her friend told her) and she gave me a huge smile.

 

I'm thinking it's now time to take this forward more. I'm going to wait until we have another intimate moment, trick her into talking about us, and playfully mention that I know she's a determined woman and I'm sure if she wanted to get back with me she would have done something about it by now. Then change the subject.

 

Whatever happens, I'll be fine anyway; I always am. And I have other dates to look forward to, which really helps stave off desperation and neediness. I almost find myself hoping she stays with her new guy a bit longer so I can keep enjoying my freedom some more. It's a good place to be.

 

Have a nonchalant Sunday, all!

 

 

Crap

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CrapatNC, did you stay with your ex in NC for how long, before letting her see the new nonchalant You?

 

With both the exes I wanted to get back with, I wasn't able to stay in NC very long (see my username). It was nonchalance that brought them both back. I literally switched overnight, though got better at it over time. Neither seemed to think the sudden change was strange.

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Crap, i blew it!

 

Broke NC!

 

Im in Las Vegas and i got a little too drunk and was

really missin her.

 

I texted her at 5am my time, 9pm her time.

 

I said, "hey babe. Just started playing craps. Just thinking about you.

What numbers should i play? : )

 

we used to play the dice game together and she would always

give me numbers to pick.

 

Sooo, what now?

 

I dont think me loving her was the problem, it was me

being toooo much.

 

I think/believe that when we speak next and if im nonchalant

we can be okay. Shes starting to notice the difference in me

already.

 

I think i have to wait for her to contact me next though.

 

She knows i miss her because of that text.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Normally my old self would text, call and bug her why she didnt respond

right away. But now, i wont. I hope she does, but i'll give her time.

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Say you've been split 2 weeks and had LC since, I'm only replying to her, I've been kinda dis-interested acting though. She was rebuffing any attempts I had at flirting before dumping me, what is the best course of action. I definitely got a rise when I acted aloof/disinterested at the weekend, I did some of the teasing/playfulness that you suggest, but I was more just being a bit cold to her, which I guess won't achieve the desired result, today I saw her again and we had a chat, I didn't act too interested in her and kept all personal details out of it, but we watched some funny youtube videos etc.

 

I've already kinda decided I'm gonna move on/let her go anyway, but I suppose as an experiment I'm interested in this!

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