LotusBlack

Actions speak louder than words. Love is a verb, not just a noun. Saying he loves you is easy, showing he loves you is a different matter and he is not showing he loves you. In fact, what he is showing you is that he doesn’t even like you. I wouldn’t even treat my friends the way he is treating you. I wish my friends happy birthday. I spend time with my friends (well, I did before I was a single mother in a rural town). The point is, your boyfriend actively avoids spending time with you, does not acknowledge your relationship needs, doesn’t invest in the relationship and puts no effort in. He just sits back and allows things to happen because he can’t be bothered moving away from it or engaging/actively contributing to it [the relationship]. Regardless of your thoughts about another person (your friend), I’d end things with your boyfriend because the relationship is not progressing/moving forward.

Sounds to me like her motivation for considering kids is solely based on not losing you. In my opinion, that is not a good enough reason to have kids. I wanted kids desperately and worked with kids as an au pair and pre-school teacher. I am significantly younger than my sister who had children young, so I spent my entire teenage years and young adulthood babysitting and, at times, helping raise kids, so I am well aware of what is involved. But, even with all that experience behind me, and all that desire for a child, I find it significantly challenging to raise my toddler. I had him at 33 and am now 37. I struggle with DMS (depleted mothers syndrome), which is an incredibly serious condition where the ‘demands on the mother (or primary carer) increase, and her resources decrease. As a result of this imbalance, the mother’s emotional sensitivity to both internal, and external triggers becomes heightened.’ (https://therapybeyondthecouch.com/depleted-mother-syndrome-dms-what-it-is-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/) This can lead to a number of serious results, such as the carer becoming uncharacteristically aggressive towards the child, depressed, thoughts of self-harm, feelings of helplessness and hopelessness, etc. A parent has to really really be committed to a child and have the desire to have that child to be able to overcome (and to want to overcome) the challenge that is raising children and the fact that, for a significant period of time, a parent (usually the mother or primary carer) has pretty much zero autonomy and does not belong to themselves. It is not a sacrifice but a choice. Like if you love both vanilla and chocolate ice cream and have to choose one flavour or the other - say you choose chocolate, you don’t sit there thinking how you had to sacrifice the vanilla in order to eat the chocolate. No, you think that you simply chose the chocolate because that is what you wanted more. Having children is the same. You might give some things up to have them but it is not a sacrifice it is a choice between two things and you chose the one you wanted more. When you have a child out of fear of sacrificing something else that you want more, then that is not a good enough foundation upon which one should build their family and choose parenthood. All the challenges become too challenging and resentment builds up and the child suffers the consequences. I very much do not agree with the notion that she cannot pin point why she doesn’t want children. She has, several times. It doesn’t have to be because of some trauma and fear that is holding her back; it can simply be because one lacks the desire to dedicate their life to and prioritise a child over their own life. There is nothing wrong with wanting to prioritise ones self over a child when that person then chooses not to have a child. The problem is when one has a child when they still wish to prioritise their own life first. Nothing but the fiercest desire to be a parent should drive a person to be a parent. I’d think many times over about what you’re potentially considering here.

She likely didn’t say not to spend it on you, she told him to spend it for himself. There is a huge difference there in intention. Although, in practice, it amounts to the same end result, the intention is very different. The former is to suggest the express exclusion of you with the intention being to exclude you. The latter has an aim of the son getting something nice for himself on one of his most important days in his life. The former is all about being malicious for the sake of being malicious and the latter is all about spoiling her son a little on an important day. Very very different scenarios. I suspect your FMIL has not done a single thing up until now with the express intention of being malicious towards you but you are determined to bend the narrative to be so regardless of the reality. I imagine my toddler when he is an adult and if he chooses to get married, I might do such a thing as giving him a little monetary gift to splurge on himself just because I love him, not because I want to go out of my way to exclude his partner. Just because he is getting married doesn’t mean I can no-longer gift my child. A mother is always going to be a mother and the marriage of her child to another shouldn’t change her being a mother still. That does not mean that mothering includes babying. A mother should adjust what her mothering looks like to reflect the age and stage of her child. One day, you may have the perspective of a mother and I suspect that only then will you understand what all us mothers are saying. FYI, my ex-husband also received a money gift from his parents for us when we were getting married and we put it towards some furniture when we moved into our marital home. It was for the both of us, but my husband told me that should we ever split then that furniture would be his because the money came from his parents. So, the problem was my husband and not the parents. Perhaps the problem lies with your partner and not his mother.

It is the responsibility of a person to choose a partner who is already the way a person wants their partner to be. Meaning they are compatible from the beginning. The problem with all the people you know who are with men who are “mamma’s boys” is that they have prematurely and immaturely chosen a partner they want to change. The issue is with them, not the “mamma’s boys” who, in reality, haven’t changed at all and have shown who they are from the beginning. Eventually, they will figure out no one wants to be with them if they come as a mother-son package deal and then it will be up to them as to whether that situation remains to suit them or not. It’s no skin off of any one else’s noses because they can simple skip by these men and choose a man who is ready to be without his mother. Do better at picking a partner who is already the person you want to be with and not somebody you feel you need to change. The onus is on you, not them.

Yes, exactly.

I just wanted to make sure you know that all the comments above, based on my experience with the posters over an long period of time, are not intended to shame casual sex and hookups, though it may come across that way if you are reading them for the first time. Most of us here think that each person has the right to participate in activities like this without judgment from others. What most are concerned about is your lack is responsible decision making and how you went about engaging in intimate activity. You put yourself at unnecessary and great risk based on an assumption that this man was on the level and decent. Not a single thing he has done demonstrated any level of decency or good judgment and the both of you declaring feelings of love so prematurely suggests a lack of emotional maturity. If you want to have casual encounters, develop your emotional maturity more so that you can make informed, responsible choices.

I agree with Batya. Also, nothing happened between them that is even slightly considered romantic until after Kim had changed company and her love interest ended his job in the field entirely. I think the work/romantic relationship issue is not relevant in this case, even had they both stayed where they were as they were not working for the same company. Lots of people get together who work in the same industry but different companies.

My sister and her ex had an arrangement of convenience. My sister got pregnant to a man she had been seeing for six months when she was just 19 and he 8 years older than her. They had their son and the relationship became so volatile and toxic it was rough on every member of my family. I was 12 at the time. They stayed together for financial reasons. Then, 9 years later, my sister wanted another baby. She didn’t want different fathers and her and her ex were no longer technically a couple but lived together for - as mentioned above - financial reasons and so he could more easily co-parent. She ended up getting pregnant again with another son. The home environment deteriorated even further and became even more toxic and volatile. It was like a poison to my sister who became a horrible human being in her treatment of others because she suffered extreme emotional abuse by her narcissist ex who was still in the house. My sister and her ex went on this way for a total of 20 years, from the time my eldest nephew was about 6-12 months old. He is now 25 and the younger one going on 16. It was incredibly damaging to the boys, even more financially draining than had the two gone their seperate ways, they have a serious issue with child custody of the youngest and my sister, who is now in her mid 40s has never been able to have a healthy relationship with a man since as she is so traumatised. She doesn’t feel like it will ever happen for her because she is irrevocably not open to it due to distrust. I went through much the same with my now-ex husband but got away after just 3 years. I would not let what happened with my sister be the same fate for me. Although the situation you mention is not the same exact situation, nothing good ever comes from keeping together people who should not be cohabitating or in a relationship anymore. Nor is deliberately misleading someone strategically for one’s own agenda and end-game. Manipulation is never a good tool to use against anyone in any situation. So, too, is leaving bread crumbs for someone to pick up based on a concern about “what if” you regret your choice later and so action a fail-safe policy. It’s not ethical, decent, or worth it and will guarantee a negative outcome 100% of the time.

Good luck, OP. I truly hope that you find a resolution to this situation and that whatever that may be, you are happy with it and can move forward in your life with prosperity.

I never suggested she seek to define the relationship at all or even a serious discussion. In fact, I did say that it is not necessary to label the relationship; however, as they are not local to each other and she has strong enough feelings for him to be anxious about how he feels about her and that any progress of this situation into a relationship would require more intentional action, it is advisable to first ascertain the general direction they each sees/would like to see this connection go in. Much like on first dates many state what they do and do not want in a relationship and the other is free to decide if that aligns with their relationship goals or not. Had OP done this the first time and what was suggested, she likely would have avoided this whole current issue.

I don’t understand any of how this situation came to be what it is because (and I believe I said it in your last thread too, OP) the most logical thing to do would be to have a direct conversation with him about what page each other is on/where each other stands. So much time has been wasted on speculation and getting yourself all wound up on reading meaning into why he does or doesn’t do something. Call me crazy, but in your shoes I’d simply behave like the adult that I am and tell him my thoughts/feelings about our interactions and where I stand/where I’d like to see the connection go and then ask him his thoughts. If we were local to each other, this conversation might happen a little later, but being that you are not local to each other, if you want things to progress then they have to be a bit more intentional and so sich a conversation is necessary. That doesn’t mean you have to label it, though. It doesn’t have to be this whole ordeal that places expectations on the other person or forces their hand to choose one thing or the other. It doesn’t have to be this big, serious thing. All you are doing is directly ascertaining where each other stands and what the other hopes to achieve. If it doesn’t align with what each other wants then you can step back from that dynamic with no hard feelings and keep it simply platonic. Don’t invest into a specific outcome to the point that it destroys you if it doesn’t come to pass. At the same time, that doesn’t mean you can’t have a direction you would like things to go; it just means you are able to withdraw yourself from that dynamic with little to no emotional injury to yourself. But this level of hyper focus about a situation that could very easily be resolved actually develops in you (general you) a level of false attachment where the relationship feels more advanced than it is because of the level of focus that has been applied to it. Just ask the man where he sees this going or where he wants it to go. Based on his answer, you can then go from there and make your choices. I find it mind boggling this hasn’t happened yet. You and he have danced around the topic of what each other looks for in general but have not talked about it in regard to each other. For the record, once I have determined in myself how I feel about someone and we are seeing each other (not quite dating or a relationship at that point) I am able hold space for what I want to have happen between us without also putting pressure or inflexible expectation on it. Just because I can live in the moment doesn’t mean that I don’t also have a direction I would like things to go and behave according to that direction. I believe most of us on this thread are expressing that they do the same but perhaps semantics got in the way. Also, I’m in my 30s and I don’t have social media other than LinkedIn and FB (the latter of which is reserved only for people I actually communicate with regularly in my life). I’ve not got Twitter (X), Instagram, Snap Chat, Tik Tok or any other social media. It serves me just fine to not have all that stuff. So, it’s not as uncommon as a lot of people think.

This, all the way! I have not seen any of them either and I am equally as proud that I don’t have or use twitter/x, tik tok, Instagram, Snapchat? Etc. Facebook, that’s it; that’s all I use and only because I have to.

I think perhaps in theory you feel ready, but emotionally you are still unavailable. The fact you are still emotionally invested enough to go so far as to seek advice (which is often generally a wise thing to do when consultation with one’s self does not offer the complete clarity one needs) indicates that although you may be resigned to things being over with your ex and you genuinely harbour the desire to want to move on with someone else, that does not mean you’re ready to. In your shoes, I would give myself some space for my feelings to settle into the new reality/situation for a couple of months and then reassess. Whilst you still feel the relationship was perfect bar for the dealbreaker, subconsciously, you’re not going to afford much space emotionally for other potential relationships/partners. But, as with all things, staying true to yourself and following your instincts is always the best course of action. I have a feeling that when the truly right woman for you comes along, you’re going to feel how wrong current ex is in comparison and not just regarding the dealbreaker issue, but everything important in a relationship, too. Nothing quite like the right person to make all the wrong people feel extremely wrong. You’ll miss her, though, if you steamroll over your feelings and force yourself to move on when you’re not quite ready to.

I’d literally just ignore it. Continue on being professional and not engaging with any of them beyond a professional capacity. If things do become unprofessional in terms of others’ behaviours towards you, shut it down respectfully by being no-nonsense and taking space away from the topic of discussion. That means either walking away or directly removing yourself verbally with a contrasting statement that brooks no further discussion. I don’t mean be combative or engaging in a debate or such, but a statement that shuts down what they are suggesting. If that fails to get things back on track, speak to HR about inappropriate work-place behaviours.

Hard as it was, I strongly feel you made the right decision. I think she pinpointed very well why she doesn’t want kids and it was a combination of factors that, separately, are all significant to her. Together, it was enough to be a dealbreaker. She has done her would-have-been future children a very important service by not having them because she likely would have resented motherhood. I suggest you hold off dating for a while so you can heal from the loss of the relationship. You’ll know when you’re ready again to date. Sorry this happened to you. You showed a lot of strength and maturity here, and honoured your feelings. Good luck moving forward in your life.

Yeah, I agree with Wiseman; I don’t think they are done and I would even go so far as to question if he is really the one who called it off or if she has mental health issues to the degree he is claiming. It’s odd to compare an ex to a new partner when there are no feelings there, so I think he is definitely emotionally unavailable in the grand scheme of things, even if you have a nice time together.

Are they actually dates, though? Are you on the same page about the context of your meetings? I’d clarify that, first. Also, I am sometimes like her when I want something but feel incredibly uncomfortable within myself or with my feelings. I give myself outs when I feel too exposed or vulnerable. It’s a way to keep some distance while I figure out whether I will be able to be comfortable with something or not. She may be doing that, too. I think, in your shoes, I’d move on.

To add another perspective - your gf lacks not only consideration for you, but also her former affair-partner’s wife. I’m not sure of their (the husband and wife) understanding or arrangement, but I wonder how her affair-partner’s wife feels about her husband very actively maintaining a friendship with his affair-partner, particularly one that outwardly appears quite couple-like on social media, etc. If I were you, I would ask your gf how the wife feels about the friendship and if she knows or if she, too, much like you were, is completely unaware of their continued contact and borderline inappropriate topics of discussion. One could make an argument (though a very stretched argument) that their continued interactions were not inappropriate where you are concerned due to different expectations, etc. as someone mentioned above, if those expectations had not been discussed between you two prior. A completely different kettle of fish when regarding her former affair-partner’s wife. I would find it very hard to believe that any self-respecting woman who has healthy boundaries would be okay with a continued friendship between her husband and his mistress. Forgiveness is one thing, being okay with a friendship is quite another and I think it unlikely she would be okay with that if she wasn’t okay with sharing her husband in the first place - hence why the affair stopped. Your gf cannot be ignorant of that, so my take on it is this is completely inappropriate on her ex-affair partner’s wife’s side (I won’t refer to him as your gf’s ex because they were not in a valid relationship) and your gf simply does not care to concern herself with that and do what is right. That tells me she lacks self control, empathy to put herself in another’s shoes, integrity, and consideration. Ask yourself if you want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t have those qualities, regardless of the friendship with this man and the affair they had in the relatively recent past. Also consider, how confident do you truly feel that a person who was willing to conduct herself in a manner that a significant percentage of the population would determine to be wildly inappropriate -the friendship after affair -(aside from the affair she was involved in) and who has stated how desperately they want to keep that person in their life is going to just readily agree to suddenly and completely sever all non-work-related contact? I wouldn’t believe it. In your shoes, I’d confidently walk away without a second look back at the deplorable person I was leaving behind.

And what about the friend? Are you going to continue your friendship? Glad your bf is fine with what happened and your relationship is moving forward well.

I am not a moderator or the OP, but might I respectfully suggest this thread be closed because it is becoming quite heated at times and I don’t think there will be any resolution in terms of points of views on certain topics within the discussion or for the OP beyond what has been offered/advised.

Perhaps your FMIL feels some type of way about you because she has witnessed you behave towards her and/or others the same way you are behaving here. I highly doubt this is the first time you have been so patronising, judgemental, pedantic, and self-serving. People are quite sensitive to picking up on an attitude another is exhibiting. Maybe she just wanted to have dinner alone with her son and felt disappointed she would have to yet again have her guard up in your presence instead of feeling comfortable and relaxed at dinner. If you behaved towards me the way you are behaving towards your FMIL here, I’d feel uncomfortable around you too. Most of us here really don’t like being so blunt and tough, but you are very determined to have your way or explain away why you are having an adult tantrum because your partner and FMIL had arrangements you weren’t part of and decided you don’t like. No one, literally no one, is saying your concerns were invalid or not justified and most of us agree with you that they needed to enforce some separation and boundaries where tracking and finances are concerned, but the way you are going about it and the cross you seem to want to pin your FMIL to is way out of line and unjustified. In other words, you reaction is overkill. Unnecessary. Move on.

My mother and father had 5 children together (the first a full-term stillborn) and were married 30 years. I was 15 when my parents sat us all down at breakfast one day and said they were divorcing. Everyone was shocked, including their best and closest friends and family, as they were known as the golden couple all other couples aspired to be. I never saw them fight a day in my life and nor had anyone else. My father told my mother that despite having the family he always dreamed of, he didn’t know what love was. It was a cold, harsh slap in the face to my poor mother who had dedicated her life to raising our family and gave up a wonderful career as a primary school teacher specialising in teaching special needs kids and those with trauma. My father did have a rough childhood. His mother committed suicide when he was 6 and he came home from school to find the horrific situation. He was then taken from his father who was told it was improper in those days to raise children by himself and given to his aunt and uncle who treated him like Oliver Twist. My father is militant in the way he processes emotion, which is a result of his past traumas. BUT, you do not marry and have children with someone and then 30 years later tell them you don’t know what love is. That’s cruel and just unforgivably horrible. My mother, whose teaching licence was no longer valid in my state, was forced by the situation to move (without any of us kids) to her home state that she grew up in, far away from the life she had built, with no money because she took took to raise us and now could not afford living where we were on the only kind of job she could get (cafe) at her age - in her late 50s. A couple of years later she met and married a lovely man (my step-father) but was diagnosed with a terminal cancer just 4 months after marrying. He spent the next 10 years of her life lovingly being her carer until she died 5 years ago. My regret for her is that my father didn’t end the relationship earlier so my mother could find the man truly meant for her and have more time with him. He has no children of his own and even my mother is gone, I and my son live with him and he is more a father to me and grandfather to my son than my own father is. My father jumped from relationship to relationship with women he could barely speak the same language as, married one who he found our 5 years into their relationship just married him for a green card, and is now currently together with another woman who he is desperately trying to get a visa to Australia for. My ex husband also told me after we got married that he never loved me, does not love me and never will love me and married me only to solve a legal issue we had. I loved him with all my heart and it shattered me to file for divorce, but when your partner tells you they don’t love you and never did, there’s no coming back from that, in my opinion. Short of being diagnosed with a brain tumour that affected their behaviour, the damage to a relationship is critical and fatal. As others have said, get your ducks in a row and speak to a family law attorney. It will be hard, definitely, and will go against your feelings, but he has already made the decision for your family to break apart your marriage. He cannot undo what he has said.

You’re still not getting it, OP. You keep saying “I want”, “I don’t want”, but it is your husband’s life and ultimately he decides what he wants and doesn’t want and if he is okay with the dynamic of his relationships and that dynamic is not okay with you, then you are incompatible as a couple and need to choose a partner who already exists in the dynamic you prefer. You behave as though it is your way or the highway. Yes, some things need to be adjusted sometimes, and he has adjusted those things, which were isolated occurrences. It’s done. Move on. By the way, not everyone agrees that all money earned during marriage is family money. That is your value, but you need to check if it’s also his. If it isn’t, that doesn’t make you right and him wrong. People reserve the right to their own opinions.

Sometimes the thing we need to do is also the hardest thing to do. I really believe you need to let her go because it is what is best for both of you, not just her. Then, find a therapist you really connect with and work through all of the concerning behaviours you exhibit. Your life will always be heavy and difficult if you approach each situation as you currently do. Talking with a therapist will give you much needed perspective and the tools to go forward in your life and make healthy decisions. If you love her (and yourself), let the both of you go so you can heal and grow. I do agree with the comment above that your gf made the right decision to get a place on her own, not just because of your behaviour but also because she’s lived with her parents and should experience the independence of living her own life now (or again if she has lived by herself before).

If you read properly, I said you have not reached that level yet, but I can see it developing that way if you continue on in this direction. You keep reiterating that he is a grown man. He may be a grown man, but he is still the child of someone and I don’t get the impression it was all set up and done in some covert operation as you seem to be painting it as. Furthermore, I wasn’t actually referring to the tracker or bank account when I made my comment, I had been referring to your manner. You are not entitled to your partner and all aspects of his life just because you’re his partner. However, you are showing signs of developing that nature in the way you talk about him and his mother. The title of your post was not, “I think my FMIL and partner are enmeshed and have crossed some boundaries I’m concerned about.” Your post was about a comment your FMIL made at a dinner you thought you were invited to. Yet, you are holding onto a topic that is entirely unrelated to your original post with a veracity that boarders unhealthy. Your concern was acknowledged and the situation remedied immediately. It’s done. Case closed. If your partner came and posted online about the same topics you have discussed, I think most people here would say that your FMIL’s comment was hurtful and she would do well to practice being a bit more diplomatic. They would also likely support the idea to remove the tracker and access to your partner’s bank account and establish some healthier boundaries. That’s fair and no one is suggesting it isn’t. But, had he written also about the attitude you are currently displaying here, both to the people in your life (FMIL and partner) and the people commenting on your thread genuinely trying to offer you valuable insight as a completely unbiased third party with no dog in the race but collectively decades of experience as parents, partners, and being both M/FIL as well as D/SIL and received the kind of responses you are giving here, many of us would also likely highlight that these are red flags to be concerned about and you are exhibiting a proclivity for overstepping and enforcing your values onto another, which may (and has often been observed with others who share the same proclivity) lead to controlling behaviour with time. I offer a genuine word of warning because I am outside of the situation and have a clear view in, that some of your attitude does not come across well and is a point of concern in the context of a relationship. Take my observation or leave it, your choice. But just recognise that as clearly as you notice an issue with your partner and his mother’s relationship, we notice an issue with you and yours. If you took in on board as quickly as your partner seems to have taken your opinion on board, people here would be a lot less concerned.