charley

So you trade on your looks? Not cool. I'm always impressed with beautiful women who don't use it to gain unfair advantage (outside romance). They use their brains and hard work to get whatever they get in regard to job, negotiating, etc.

Ya, but there's any number of other reasons a woman might leave a guy. I mean I'd try to be a good BF, but there's no guarantees. Are you going to guarantee that she won't leave me period? Because that's the only way I'm going for it. Otherwise, I'll keep my looks.

I'll take the awesome GF without hesitation, but if she dumps me later, can I get my looks back? Can I get a refund?

Yes, I am. There's only one Charley spelled "ley". You may also call me Onebrow.

There is nothing wrong with dating many people and weeding them out until you find the right person. I think you're doing fine there. If there's a problem, it's that you let your expectations be to high per person. I'd suggest not having any expectations beyond just getting to know the other person. That way you can't be disappointed. Then sooner or later, you'll meet the right person and all will workout. I think you've been rather successful at dating because you've been getting dates and separating the chaff from the wheat. Keep at it and you'll get to the wheat sooner or later. There's no reason to be discouraged. You're doing great. However, there is also nothing wrong with withdrawing, regrouping, and taking a break.

Yes, but it needs to be mutual, and that is the problem. He stated that is the problem in his first post.

You said bra removal? Don't expect that to happen on a first date. It might, but don't expect it. I don't think that's likely to happen with most women. You could really offend a woman that way, especially on a first date. Why even risk it? The boobs will still be there later. Why rush?

I like technical writing related to real estate, finance, R.E. investment, and related software. I try to add a human element to it with real life examples based on real people to keep it human and interesting. The human element is often overlooked in technical writing, which makes it dry. With human element included, it can be interesting for writer and reader. I wrote a real estate investment encyclopedia and related software a decade ago and they sell online via a company and website I started back in 1998. However, I'd like to also get the encyclopedia published in print in bookstores. So your thread here is useful to me. I will enjoy following it and learning from others. I like this thread. Thanks for it.

It depends on the people involved and how shy the shyest one might be. A family joke about my aunt and uncle is that they were so shy when they started dating that they barely talked to each other and never touched. Eventually they worked up to holding hands, but it was many, many dates before they ever got past that. This is my dad's younger brother and he and his other brothers and sisters still laugh about it. Never the less, my uncle and his GF got past their shyness, eventually got married, and went on to have 17 kids. From to shy to touch or talk to married and 17 kids. That's the best part of the humorous story. With my second GF, I went on many dates with her before we kissed. The night we kissed, she'd try and I'd get shy and turn my head away. This happened several times, but she persisted. Once I got comfortable with kissing we went on to make out like crazy, and more (another night later). I don't think you can put rules or time limits on people or dating. There are to many variables. You might be able to say what is common, but that's all you can say. There are no rules, IMO. If there are rules, then there are exceptions to every rule.

Meow. Purrrrrrrrr. Meow?

...And maybe you dont like her back for some reason/your taken . Would you treat her any differently? Possibly Would you like her a little more than any other girl? Possibly more if I'm comfortable with her, Possibly less if she's making me uncomfortable Would you have a soft corner for her? Maybe To complicated an isse for me to know. I don't know because it depends on her, the situation, and me. A lot of unknown variables.

Which is most women, isn't it? They seem more inclined to it than men. I've always thought women should lead since they're often more skilled at dancing. Why do men lead? Makes no sense.

My point exactly. Don't restrict yourself to such a narrow range of the female population. Listen to Allie. She is wise.

I don't think weight is the problem, aside from the fact that the word "chubby" is bound to offend many women. I think his real problem is he wants tall women he needs a step stool to kiss. He said chubby white girls, but look at the height and weight figures he gives. He really means tall shapely white women and tall thin Korean women. I think it's his desire for a woman taller than himself that's making things difficult, compounded by the fact that the word "chubby" is going to offend many. I don't think he thinks of women as meat though. He's a well meaning nice young guy who is describing what visually attracts him. Of course he has personality things he likes too, even though he didn't list them. Since he's young, he didn't list his preferences in a very diplomatic manner, but he's a well meaning good young guy at heart. His tastes do need adjustment to fit himself though, IMO. He'll learn more diplomacy as he gains age and experience. I'm sure the women here are teaching him plenty right now. I'm 38 and they're always still teaching me. Sometimes with a whip and a chair.

Smaller women have advantages. For one thing, I can kiss a smaller woman and pat her butt and the same time. With my 6' tall X, it was an either-or proposition. I couldn't reach to do both at the same time. With a tall woman it's like trying to drive a car where you can reach the gas or the steering wheel, but not both at the same time. There's also other advantages of the woman being smaller than the guy. There are things I had no clue about when I was P.Dragon's age, but learned over time and with some experience.

It started as an accommodation, but my tastes really did change and for valid reasons as I gained a little experience. Today, if I had a choice between a woman of my original tastes vs. my current tastes and I could have either, the one of my current tastes would be far more attractive to me. For real. I've changed.

In my case, it's not about what I can get. It's about being attracted to those who are attracted to me, and my tastes really did change to appreciate them as being the most attractive to me. That's something that occurred over years and without consciously thinking it through. It just happened naturally. I didn't consciously think about it until afterwards. Now I really do prefer the same types women who are likley to prefer me. I'm not settling. I can get who I want. It just happens that who I want now cooincides with who is likely to want me. It's not settling because I really want them. I prefer them now over my original misguided tastes from 15 years ago. Maybe my tastes changed partly as a result of maturing.

I was suggesting he play the odds and adapt his tastes in women to the odds. However, if he wants to search for exceptions, he can find them sometimes, but that's the hard way to go.

Where are you finding women taller than 6' 2"? I had a GF who was 6' tall in bare feet and well over 6' in heels. Of course exceptions occur. But to me, those have been exceptions.

And am clean cut. Why must we be unpleasant?

I meant at odds with what tall shapely women typically like. I'm not enough big enough for their likely tastes and I'm 5'10" and 180 lbs. Those gals are usually dating guys substantially taller and bigger than me. To a woman who's 5'10" and 150 to 160 lbs, I'm a little guy. Where does that leave P.Dragon? Of course there are exceptions and his prior GF was an exception. However, if he went for shorter women more his size or smaller, his odds would dramatically increase. That's all I meant. I'd like to see the odds working in his favor instead of against him. He's a cute guy, but he's small. If he insists on chasing women who are taller and heavier than him, he's going to be swimming upstream against what most women prefer, which is a guy larger than herself. That's not a slap on his attractiveness to women though. I'll bet smaller women would find him adorable. Sure maybe some tall ones would to, but it's less likely.

Here's a funny thought. I know I irritate you sometimes, but my looks are exactly what you say you prefer. Interesting. Please don't flame me now. I'm just making an observation. The OP is a nice guy and a young guy. He's only saying what he finds visually attractive. He's way to nice a guy to think of women as meat. He's not like that. He's just a nice, sweet, horny kid. Cut him some slack. However, I do think his tastes are a recipe for failure because his tastes combined with his looks are at odds with what most women like. Can we agree on that? There are other types of women who are more likley to be attracted to him. Can we also agree on that?

I just tried to look up Scarlett Johansson's height and weight. I couldn't find her weight listed anywhere, but she did criticized the media ideals for women's weight. Obviously she is way to shapely to meet the common media weight criteria and way to hot to care. How tall is she? I found that in centimeters, but it means nothing to me. So P.Dragon, I cannot say her stats, but I'll bet her height to weight ratio is close to what you called a chubby girl. She's not chubby. She's built like a brick house. I'm quivering just thinking of her. I also noticed in her bio that she says she's born in 1984. That's make her how old now, age 22 I think? She said she prefers to date older men age 30+. Ahahahahaha!

I learned to be attracted to the women who typcially find me attractive. That's what I'm suggesting you do to. Start paying attention to which women like you and then learn to recognize them. I used to be 6' tall. However, now 5' 10" due to being crushed in an accident (3 disks in neck and one in back). Anyhow, at 5' 10" I notice that it's typically shapely women who are 5'2" t 5'4" that give me the most flirt. Sometimes under or over those heights, but usually in that range. Most often women 5'3". Now I'm not talking about when I initiate the flirting. I mean I've noticed when they do and who most often does. Usually those little gals are rather shapely too. I also attract taller women who are 5'5" up to maybe 5'8", but they tend to be thinner, leaner, and not so shapely. Yet their body weight is probably similar to the other group (shorter and shaplier). I also tend to attract women of any race who are a noticeably darker complected than I am. Also, they tend to be 24 to 28. Of course they have no idea that I'm 38. Ha ha. Though I'll tell them my age anytime they ask. Until they ask, my mouth is shut about it. I'm talking about when women initiate things. So I've learned which women are likely to like me. I've naturally learned to prefer them. So now I recognize them as attractive to me. That's a recipe for mutual attraction. I used to have a thing for tall shapely amazon looking women. However, those women weren't interested and weren't having any of me. Meanwhile these other women were interested and I was blind to that, until I wised up. Adjust your tastes in women to those who are most likely to like you. Then you'll have many good opportunities for mutual attraction.