No Spaces Rob

The lunch wasn't a date - it was more of a 'do you want to grab lunch together?' Which may mean that I have sent her the message that I want to be her lunch buddy, instead of the 'date' message. I am comfortable with the chatting and eating lunch, but less comfortable with the dating part of things and I'm worried that my hesitance to move forward in the dating part of things is inadvertently giving her the 'friend only' message when that really isn't my desire. Of course I know the answer is to just ask her out, making it clearly date-like. And even though I know what to do, I know the only reason I'm coming on here and asking about this is because I am just stalling What good is it for me to become so worried about not asking her on a date for so long, that I become too scared to ask her on a date? There are just too many excuses for shy men not to ask someone out, and they are all procrastination. It just seems so much easier to be friendly and hope she'll bust a move. Hmmmm, she likes a drink. So do I. She likes movies. So do I. She brought these topics up. Hmm, just thinking out loud...

Hi, I'm a 26 year old guy with very little experience with girls. There is a new girl I've met, who is a little younger than me, and more more outgoing than me. I can't help thinking that because of her personality she is so different to me - how could we possibly get along? But we seem to. What's more, I'm sure she is not the type of girl that my friends would expect me to go for. But I still think of her quite a bit. I had lunch with her last friday and we got along well. She did lots of talking about herself. She's extremely talkative. I asked her a few things about herself and she seemed quite content to talk about herself, though she didn't really ask as much about me. No doubt she loved the opportunity to talk, and loved the attention, but her interest in me wasn't really seen. No doubt, because I'm so nervous around her, I'm giving her mixed messages. For example there have been quite a few opportunities for her to 'accidentally' brush past me because she leans over me for something or other. I'm nervous about this type of touching and sometimes I pull away a bit. There's nothing I want more than to touch her. But I am self conscious and don't want to be perceived as a pervert who would enjoy rubbing up against her. So I shrink back a bit. A couple of times she has put a hand on my back when talking to me. And she smiles well when our eyes meet and she makes silly jokes when I'm around (and doesn't seem to do that with other guys). I have been working on the eye contact thing. I know most shy guys can't do eye contact and I am feeling a lot more confident with this now. And smiling. I don't really want to be giving out mixed signals. My last relationship was a disaster - I fell deeply for a girl and got my heart broken. But with this girl, I don't have that huge emotional connection. She is more of a fun person to be around, and I like how I feel when around her. Still, my mind is still a little bit hesitant to get too involved with her because I'm telling myself she probably isn't right for me, but perhaps also because I am just scared. Perhaps she is already cooling off on me, maybe I am already too slow and hesitant for her. I think this girl is fun and would love to spend more time with her. I am also attracted to her physically. Lunch on friday was enjoyable but was kind of just a friend thing... I want to ask her out. However, I've never had much success with that.

Hi all, I feel as if I'm cured right now. Permanently. Today I found out that she is going out with one of my workmates. The mutual friend told me. She also said she was really sorry for reminding me and she didn't mean to upset me etc. But I had a bit of a chat with her about it, and for some reason I feel much better now. Hearing about how the girl who hurt me so much is now dating (or perhaps stringing along) another workmate doesn't really fill me with the depression I expected it would, in fact I find some weird sense of satisfaction, as if I don't care - in fact in a way I care more about him than her now. I hope she doesn't treat him the way she treated me. She needs people because she is insecure and if someone should happen to fall in love with her, she'll milk it until she feels uncomfortable and deal with the discomfort by passive aggressiveness and giving the cold shoulder. Also, being able to talk about the issues with my friend - it's been a bit of a no go zone until now - has made me feel better as I know it's off my chest. I felt as if my friend had the wrong impression of me and it made be a little annoyed. But I think we understand the truth more now. I feel as if the pain is acknowledged, and safe to talk about now. So I feel less desire to talk about it. Perhaps you interpret this as bitterness. I don't think it is - I think I am living up to reality, and I am so very amazed at how absent of emotion I am about this whole thing. This is sudden - up until now I have been feeling angry, sad or depressed but that seems gone right now. Anyway that is how I'm feeling right now. It's subject to change - maybe I'll feel bad about it again later, but I simply don't think I will. Thought I'd update you on what I feel is a bit of success.

Hi moonflowers, thank you very much for your reply. The mutual friend is pretty clued in. She knows it is a touchy subject for me and although I have seen her every work day for months she has only even mentioned her a couple of times and never with the intention of feeding me 'updates'. She is generally very curious and big on gossip, so she is showing true restraint in this case like a good friend. Thanks again for your reply. One of the bad things I've noticed is that now that it's been some time since she left, I feel as if it is no longer appropriate for me to discuss it with anybody. That to still be talking about her after this much time is so pathetic it is unthinkable. I know this is an unreasonable thought, but just a couple of people give me this impression ("honestly just forget about her"). I dunno, maybe I will give the counselling a bit more of a go. Or maybe I'll just set myself some goals.

Actually g44, this is an old thread and I revisited here to update people on the progress I am making and share some good and interesting news. In regard to your "let it go and relax" comment, "letting it go" and "relaxing" has always been my goal. Achieving that is what has been difficult. I find that people who have told me to "just let it go" and "forget about her" are giving particularly unhelpful advice and are being dismissive of my problems. Do they assume I'm not trying to forget about her? That I want to keep torturing myself? This is as if I have asked for help on how to let it go and relax, and the answer I am get in return is "let it go and relax".

Thank you chattymcchatterson, I did see a counseller which ended a number of weeks ago and it was very helpful. I credit it with helping me to gain self-confidence. The mutual friend mentioned her today and started asking about her. She talked to me a bit about it and while it was a little awkward and there were a couple of misunderstandings I feel as if a huge burden has been lifted. She actually said some pretty wise things. She said "It's crap for you that you feel that way and things still upset you. But I guess the important thing is to realise is that she didn't turn out to be the person you fell for". She was also surprised that I'd felt that way. Because I hadn't really spoken to her about it before. And she also pressured me to reveal some of the things that (the girl) had said about her to me. Which was a little uncomfortable.

She had invited me out on saturday night. She SMSd me as I was getting ready to meet her. "Sorry Rob, I'm going to have to cancel tonight. I was talking to my housemate about it and she was going on about how good it would be to have a girls' night out. I didn't have the heart to tell her I wanted you there." She then invited me out the next day, Sunday, and did the same thing. I was already on my way to meet her when I got the SMS.

Hey syrix, thanks very much for your support, it means a lot. One of these days my life won't seem so topsy-turvy.

A photo of her just turned up on my workmate's flickr account. It really hurts that she has remained friends with him, and others at my work, but that she has cut me out of her life so completely. It wouldn't be so bad if she hadn't been treating me so badly at work, and lying about me behind my back. I'm supposed to be going to a party on an island with her and my workmates for three days, and you guys said I should go but I don't know. I'm feeling so down about it. It's so crap. If I go I'll have a miserable time. If I don't go my workmates could think all sorts of things about me, plus she might tell stories about me.

My friend seems to be experiencing depression. She has been telling me about feeling bad all the time and crying. She told me she thought she was going crazy for the way she feels. I asked her if she was keeping a journal, and seeing a counsellor, and making use of her family and friends for support, and she said she had exhausted all those possibilities. She feels hopeless and as if the future is bleak. The problem is, I am also trying to shrug off depression which has seen me deeply miserable for some time, and I know that I am currently improving. My depression seemed to start as grief over a relationship. Anyway, I stopped therapy a couple of months ago though I still think about it quite a bit and still have the odd bad time. She tells me about her problems constantly. I am willing to talk to her about them, because I know from personal experience that the worst thing when you are depressed is feeling like people are judging you for it, or aren't listening. So I want to be a good friend. I don't really talk to her about my own depression. I kind of want to, but I don't want to worry her or sound like I am trivialising the way she feels. Also, I have a feeling she would not understand. Hearing about her problems makes me kind of sad and miserable. What if anything should I say to her? Should I tell her anything about my situation? I want her to know that I still care about her as a friend and don't want her to feel rejected. But at the same time I am feeling a bit sad over everything. Sad that she feels bad just like me.

I think that rather than going away, my grief has turned into some sort of long term depression - I have felt bad for some time now. For instance I've been depressed about my job recently and I have even looked at job listings and asked my friends about their job, believing I have a crappy boss and my job has little prospect for career advancement. But what if I am in denial, and this is all just due to my depression, which is me repressing my grief over this heart break? For weeks I have felt bad about my job, and myself, and my friends, and more. I think I might just be feeling bad in general. What is the likelihood that a painful experience such as this can trigger some sort of long term depression? What are my options? I stopped going to therapy about 2 months after it happened, thinking I could handle it from then on. Is this current feeling something to worry about? ----- edit: the mutual friend i work with mentioned her the other day. they have been in touch. Plus I am still dreading having to spend the weekend with her in a few weeks.

It sounds like you are still in pain because the live you imagined you would have with her is no longer possible (though you still want it). Your emotions are trying to deal with this by hating her. It's a natural reaction, I have been through it (and am still affected by it). You know, logically, that hating her is meaningless - it isn't going to make life better for anyone, especially you. But still, getting rid of those emotions takes more than logic. It takes an awful lot of time.

recipe for healing a broken heart 2 tsp righteous anger 2 tsp crushing pain 1 part writing bad poetry 2 oz sad songs 2 parts bbc tv drama 600ml tears 2 oz feeling sorry for yourself 3 tsp sympathetic friends 1 part drinking 3 parts loneliness 500g overeating 2g emotional distance Mix all ingredients in a large bowl until hard.

I have two threads on the go, sorry. The other one's about a work function both she and I will be attending. Here's something I wrote in my journal just then. It is completely the opposite of what I wrote in my journal yesterday, which was a letter begging her for her friendship. --- Whatever you intended to do to me, it has been very effective. I have spent 4 months crying in the shower, at lunch time, and in bed at night. I have spent 20 weekends thinking about you constantly. I have spent countless lunch times crying into my mobile phone, my dad or my friend comforting me on the other end. I have had over a dozen counselling sessions. I have filled multiple notebooks with writings about my feelings for you, and how you have made me feel. I have been affected by anger, guilt, depression, and mostly pain. I have posted entries to my blog about how terrible I feel only to delete them later. I have not had a single day where I haven’t thought of you and been depressed about it. You broke my heart over ICQ at work and wouldn’t tell me to my face. You avoided the guilt of seeing me cry. You invited me out, twice in a weekend, and cancelled by SMS at the last minute both times. I was already on the train to meet up with you, but you wouldn’t talk to me about it, apart from the SMS. You promised to talk, several times, and cancelled or changed your mind each time. You wouldn’t let me talk to you at work, because it was inappropriate. You wouldn’t let me talk to you during work hours, because you weren’t comfortable. You said we should remain friends, and then gave me the silent treatment, making me feel guilty that we weren’t friends anymore. You made me feel guilty for being friends with P. You told me you were upset about me telling P about my feelings for you. You made every conversation we had turn into a conversation about my friendship with P. You told me not to trust P, and you once used P as an excuse not to speak to me. You stopped greeting me in the mornings or chatting to me during the day. I waited and waited for you to be ready to talk to me once more. I tried saying hi or starting casual conversations. You ignored me in the street once. You walked right by and pretended I wasn’t there. I was shocked, and cried. What was the reason for this controlling and manipulative behaviour? Were you punishing me for telling you my feelings for you? For hassling you to talk to me when you needed space? You made me feel guilty. Once, when I walked past you, you smiled at me. Once, you sent a message to my flickr account. I didn’t understand why you were doing that. You have me hope that you were ready to be friends again. But then you ignored me when I saw you during the day. You told my friend P lies about me. You said I had been mean to you, and that I had been ignoring you. You didn’t ever tell those things to me. I became very angry. I’d thought it was all over. But you continued to make me feel bad through P, even after you’d left. You pretended you were the victim. You explained away my love for you as simply a ploy. I hoped that we could become friends once more. Right now, I’d settle for strangers. I don’t like your hostility. I don’t like the games. I don’t like having my heart treated like it has. Do you have a severe self esteem problem? Did you like the attention I gave you when we were seeing each other? Did you delude yourself into thinking it was all fake, just so you could keep me around, without needing to admit that my love was in vain? Were you too cowardly to tell me how you thought about me? Were you still too cowardly, weeks after I had asked you, to do it in person? One day, I will be over you. My heart will no longer carry feelings for you. When that happens, my pain will be gone. I’ll be able to forget all that happened and it will no longer mean anything to me. Sleeping dogs don’t lie. No Spaces Rob

What a creep. This guy has got so many problems he is an accident waiting to happen and I myself would stay well away from him let alone you. Look at the way he treats you when he's at the gym. He's aggressive, threatening and trying to control you. He not only has thrown away any possibility of you being friends or your relationship mending, but he's also thrown away his dignity and any respect anyone might have for him at any time. He's a terminal case. Ignoring him is simply survival on your part. Being nice and friendly to him is another tactic, though it would be ridiculous given the controlling manner he is treating you with. Unfortunately, he is a crazy person and it sounds like he is after you. That whole thing of him living with his mother and letting her control him sends shivers down my spine. It's like something from a movie. Draw on your friends and family for support. Obviously, don't initiate any more contact with him, ever. Your family and friends can be very supportive in times like this, I really hope you take advantage of them. Consider stopping going to that gym. If it were me, it would make me very tense and also a bit scared whenever I saw him. If you stop seeing him, it's the next step to stopping caring about him at all. At the least, you should seriously consider what is more important to you - your safety and happiness, or having a gym in a convenient location.

No, you are not weaker. Your ability to fall in love doesn't make you weak. It's been about four and a half months for me, and I am still feeling pain and thinking about her all the time.

I'm not really sure what support I can offer. It sounds like you are going through the sort of frustrations that one goes through with a relationship, where there are always problems with communication, etc. When you look at her facebook you feel bad, it obviously means you feel something strongly and she doesn't understand that. If I knew what to do in that kind of situation I would be a lot happier myself Sorry I can't be of more help.

Thanks captain, I will do that. I am completely certain that without any doubt there is absolutely no possibility she would like to 'get back with me'. If I even imagined that it would be doing myself a disservice - I have spent a long time coming to the realisation that that is only a dream of mine, and I wouldn't even want that now. Rather than 'get back with me', she probably would rather 'get back at me', like she did when she would walk by me in the street and pretend I wasn't there. I would like there to be no tension and no pain, and for us to be casual friends (not close friends) would be an ideal situation. Maybe you'd call it closure. I'd call it leaving on good terms. It would mean so much to me, but to this point I have come to the acceptance that can't happen. But now that I know we are going to be spending an entire long weekend in close proximity, along with the people I spend half my waking life with, I need the tension to disappear more than ever. So many people have told me that I should not let her know how much she has hurt me. Let her keep thinking she is the victim. That if she knew how much she hurt me by what she did, it would give her some sense of satisfaction and power. Why do I even care about her satisfaction? Surely, if knowing how I'd suffered made her feel better, that would be a good thing wouldn't it. Not to mention that I don't believe it. If she knew how much I'd suffered I don't see how that would satisfy her or make her feel better.

the following piece of writing I have made should give you an idea of just how miserable I am right now. I don't intend to send it to her - I doubt that would be productive though if there was any chance it could make a difference, and I thought so, I would. But it is such a tragic piece of writing in that there is no way it could ever have the effect that I want it to have. That is sort of written by my heart, who still misses her. My head, and my sense, is that she has hurt me too much and treated me too disrespectfully, and does not have the understanding of what she has done, to even understand what I might be going through. I know you people talk a lot about 'no contact' - I have been practising 'no contact' through no choice of mine - she cut me out of her life. Though I have no idea if it would have been any less painful had she actually made effort to be my friend rather than the opposite.

A friend of mine at work, who is still in touch with her, told me. It's the same friend at work that I mentioned in my first post. I really hate the whole situation, because I feel so hurt, and I feel so bad that I am hurt. I think she was passive-aggressive to me - pretending everything was good to my face, but shunning me through her actions. Inviting me out then cancelling multiple times, saying everything was fine but expecting me to guess what the matter was, refusing to talk to me but always having an excuse that made it sound like she wasn't avoiding me. And of course, giving me the silent treatment but telling my friend I had been mean to her by ignoring her.

Thanks all for your advice sofar. Knowing her very well, I think she would be more likely to be more passive. She would be friendly to everyone else there and cold to me, and if she does talk about things, it will be to quietly tell someone something behind my back, when I am not in earshot. She has a very low self-esteem too and believed some things that weren't true, and she was actually quite depressed a lot of the time I knew her (about her job, as far as I could tell). I think I was attracted to her partially because she was so timid. I a way, I know that I can put up with her, because I worked with her for six weeks afterwards. I worried about her and tried to figure out why she was acting the way she did and felt bad about myself and cried and all that sort of stuff, but I did survive. I really wanted to remain friends and she made me feel guilty, which I realise is now ridiculous and I feel like a bit of a fool. Hearing that she had been telling P stuff about me did make me upset but I am still here, surviving.

I am worried about that too. People will get drunk, and at one function a few weeks ago she told my friend at work some things about me. For instance, that I have been mean to her by ignoring her. I don't want to argue about it, but that is just the opposite of the truth. It just all seems to ridiculous, and it is. She is confused about it somehow and is trying to make up her own version of events. I wish she would deal with it some other way, like not trying to exact some sort of stupid revenge on me at work. When she broke it off and was refusing to talk to me I just wanted to be friendly and polite with her, and otherwise gave her her space.

Our boss invited her as sort of a leaving gift. I'm just worried that I might be kind of miserable there and I don't really want to be miserable around my workmates. I haven't been feeling very good recently, and I don't want that to affect work. How does the concept of no contact apply when you are forced to spend time with them in a social situation with workmates? Sorry I'm new to this forum

This question sort of spans both the 'healing after break-up' and 'career' sections. But I am more concerned about healing. It has been about 4 months since a particular girl I worked with broke my heart and I have been having a rough time since then. I cried a lot, had counselling, etc. In the early days I tried getting her to talk to me a few times and I got pretty hurt. So I gave her space and while I tried to be friendly and neutral, she avoided me. Eventually she left the company, for unrelated reasons. It was a relief to me for that tense situation to be gone, even though I missed her. I'm now told that she is going to attend the office christmas party, which strangely enough is being held over 3 days in October. The christmas party will be on an island and there will be nobody else there but the 18 people or so I work with. I don't want to spend time with her on an island. I don't want to undo all the beneficial healing that I have gone through by being forced to interact with her. I don't want to cry in front of workmates. And I don't want to spend the entire time avoiding her. I also don't want to attempt to 'make friends' with her again. She has hurt me a lot, and even brought one of my friends at work into the matter, telling her some things about me that are unfair. I am worried that if I do not attend, which would be practically unheard of in the company (it's an island! to ourselves!), it will cause rumours and damage me in the eyes of my workmates. I really hate that she has been able to change me so profoundly, and being away from her was really helping. I really felt for her and loved her for who she was as a person. I really needed a lot of help from family and friends to get through this time. But I don't want it to affect my relationship with my workmates. I could go to the christmas party and avoid her most of the time. This would be very uncomfortable and would make the christmas party not fun. I could go to the christmas party and try to be polite and friendly in a neutral way. This could be very painful for me depending on how she behaves, given our history. It would be weird, and given my past attempts I predict I would get upset. Or I could not attend, and suffer whatever office political fallout one suffers when they shun the christmas party. I don't know what to do, and I don't really want to think about her too much.

That sounds sensible. It sounds like you are doing the right thing. Everything in that post, if you haven't told her already you could tell her. For instance you could tell her that you wish you could just wave a magic wand at her and make her feel better. Sometimes we need to let people make their own mistakes and get through hardships on their own. All we can do is support them and be there for them when they are feeling down. Even if we can see that they are failing, sometimes people want to get through it on their own. It does hurt. If you have feelings for her I can see how it might be painful for you.