spookylittlegirl

I have since taken another step in my pursuit of truth. Knowing that the only two people who knew what really happened were Joe and Jill, and that getting Joe to talk about it was no longer an option, I did the only thing I had left. I spent a couple of days composing a letter to send to Jill. She went through something strikingly similar a few years back with her then-husband and a friend she'd had for years. I reminded her of that time, told her I knew she had been feeling all the same things I'm feeling now, hoping to get her to identify with the pain I'm going through as she's been there herself. I also talked about all the times I had been there for her, through her ups and downs, through her proud moments and sad moments. I reminded her that I have been the 'only one' in many situations who helped her, didn't doubt her abilities, didn't look down on her, etc. I figured if I got her to remember what it was like when she was in my shoes, and remember that I was one of the best friends she had, she'd have a hard time lying to me about the whole thing again. I also hoped the heightened emotional state of pregnancy would help with that. I sent to to her on Sunday night, and by Monday morning she had replied. She said that she had been wondering how I was doing, because she had already been thinking about when she went through it. But what really stuck out was that she said "If I could tell you we had sex, as awful as it sounds, to help ease your pain, I would. But I can't. I didn't happen." She went on to explain what did happen (because I asked), and I can honestly say that I do believe what she wrote. She said it started out with him crying about me, then they hugged, she said she didn't know who kissed who but they kissed and it only lasted about 3 seconds before they both thought 'whoa!' and pulled away. It was at that time that she suspected she was pregnant because of soreness in her breasts, so they were talking about that. When they went to bed, Joe was in the bed and she was on a fold-out on the floor. She got uncomfortable really fast because of the tenderness, and from his breathing she knew Joe was asleep, so she just got into the bed. She said they were both fully dressed with the clothes they had on all day. When they went for lunch the next day, it was just to reiterate what they had talked about the night before, but sober this time. He asked what she was going to do if she was pregnant, and she asked what he was going to do about me. I finally feel like things have fallen into place. She mentioned things in her reply I had questions about but didn't ask, things she wouldn't have known I knew about, which only served to increase my willingness to believe her. I feel now that I can finally put all of this behind me, forget about it, and finally be happy with the man I'm crazy about. I'm sure I'll still have moments of doubt, but now I have the information I needed to quell those doubts. I finally feel I'm on the road to believing that I have gotten the truth. But I also know that I'm at the end of the road for ever finding out anything more about that night. What has been said is all that is ever going to be said, so I can take it or leave it. My job now is to take it, use it to get past this, and then leave it far behind, forgotten. Jill is no longer in our lives, she confirmed that Joe has had no contact with her whatsoever, and that because of how badly she feels that she was the one to cause me such pain, she is walking away. Am I being naive? Do I just want the closure so badly that I'm willing to believe anything at this point? Do I just want to believe that it didn't happen so badly that I'm willing to take the word of a known liar? Or can I finally say I've gotten the whole truth because I've appealled to the base emotions of the only person will to talk about it? Oh, and in response to Sparkle, this relationship is very serious. We started off as very good friends and it naturally progressed to developing deeper feelings. We both feel that we are the one the other has always been looking for. When we first got together, he told me a little secret. He said that when we would just hang out, and he was starting to realize that he thought of me as more than just a friend, he'd watch me walking away (to the ladies room, etc.) and think to himself "I'm going to marry that girl someday". So yes, we're in no rush but this is a life-long commitment. With the way I feel about him, I can't imagine spending the rest of my life with anyone else. We've both said it, we complete each other, not in a needy, unfulfilled way, but a complementary way.

Indeed, anyone who gets through the first post definitely deserves major props, but I didn't want to leave any pertanent information out. I'm still with him because I really do love him. I have never felt this way about anyone, thus making all of this that much harder. Jane only told me what she had been told, from Jill directly (who you will recall can lie so well she doesn't even know she's lying anymore) and from Jill's brother, who was there that night and made assumptions from what he saw. When I questioned Jill about it, she too admitted to the kiss, saying that they stopped because they knew it was wrong and that only hurt would come of it (how she developed a conscience for a few brief moments, I don't know). When another friend of ours spoke to her, she said she had no idea why I was mad at her (when I first emailed her about it, all I had said was "I know what happened", perhaps my devious way of trying to get her to admit to more?). This other friend said "Jill, you kissed Joe." to which she paused and then said "No I didn't". The friend went on to say that Joe had admitted it, and Jill said she was drunk and didn't remember it. Yet she remembered enough to brag to Jane about it shortly thereafter, even embellishing the story (if it was indeed an embellishment). When Jill's brother called me, he simply confirmed what Jane had said, with a minor adjustment here and there (like that there was only one condom wrapper, not a few), so they're stories gel. Joe's story does coincide with theirs, he said they did kiss, they did go for lunch, he did wake up and she was in the same bed, and that the condom(s) were used for balloons. Just knowing Jill the way I do, and knowing just how upset Joe would have been that night, I just can't bring myself to believe that nothing happened beyond the kiss. Even if it did happen, I've already told him it won't affect Us, I just want to know. You'd think with all that incentive, a clean slate, no retribution, no chance of losing me over it, he would come clean. But that's just it, perhaps he has and nothing really did happen. Again with the vicious circle though, because of the fishiness of the whole story. I'm at a total loss, he's never given me reason to doubt his word before, but this time is just different. There's so many reasons for admitting it if it did happen, yet so many reasons not to as well. Do I talk to him about it again, thus starting a whole new fight about it, and possibly losing him because of my mistrust if nothing really did happen? Do I talk to Jill again, appeal to her as someone who was my friend for many many years and who was always good to and tell her how this is affecting me? Perhaps with the pregnancy she'll be more emotional and feel guilty enough to come clean? Or do I just say "To heck with it all, if it happened, it happened, he's here with me now, and he loves me to pieces, just forget about it."? Or do I say "I can't live with this doubt, I don't trust him at all anymore and can't go on like this."? All my other friends (who, granted, don't know Joe as well as I do, but many that know Jill almost as well) have said either A) he's telling the truth, or B) just drop it, forget about it. I guess I just need a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th opinion, haha.

I heard a really great quote last week and I think it applies in this situation - Don't make someone a priority if they only make you an option. Cut your losses and find someone who is going to reciprocate your feelings wholeheartedly. I know its easier said than done, but what's going to hurt more in the long run, the time wasted and slow pain you're feeling now, or the quick sharp snap of cutting it off and gradual decline of the hurt? Don't you think you deserve better than to be strung along?

I think with Jill, it was a case of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". I've always had a fear of her hitting on any guy I was with, with good reason. In retrospect, I think to her I was just the person to go out to the club with so she wasn't there alone while she picked up guys. Almost like her web and her the Black Widow. We'd go out, have a good time, guys would come to talk to us and she'd pounce. When I first met Joe it was as friends, I only warned him about Jill because I knew there was potential there and I didn't want to see him go the same route as many others. She was the only thing I didn't trust him about, but mostly because I didn't trust her. She just has some kind of magic she weaves with men, perhaps its just appealling to their primal instincts and they can sense that she's going to put out, who knows. I trust all my other friends explicitly, I know I have absolutely nothing to worry about with them. Jill was the exception, I think through all this, my fears were proven warranted. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that finds the whole story a little fishy. And I had never really thought about it that way, that he didn't even think to talk to me that night but ran straight to her, like it was the excuse he was looking for. But on the other hand, he had said to me before that he trusted me explicitly, except where Tim was concerned. He always worried that Tim might come back into our lives and he was always afraid of what might happen, so my ex playing on all those insecurities was like hitting him in the Achilles Heal. Its a vicious circle in my head, I go over and over it, and think "Nah, he's telling me the truth, he loves me as much as he says he does, he knows what Jill is like, he even said that even if he wasn't with me he wouldn't sleep with her for that very reason." But then the doubts come in and smash that to heck and back. There was alcohol involved, he was angry, he was upset, if thoughts of revenge were in his head he had the perfect opportunity right there, and I KNOW Jill would be willing. She always has been. I just don't know how I will ever get the truth, or if I already have it. I would never have taken Joe for the cheating type, but since he thought we were through that night, its quite likely that he doesn't see it as cheating at all if anything did happen. Jill is also the type that isn't happy unless every man wants her, especially men who are taken. She would have seen him as a conquest that night, taking the one thing from me that she couldn't have. Her modus operandi is - I say I want to do/get something, she immediately goes out and does/gets it, so that if I do, its as though I'm copying her. She always has to have things first, but with Joe, she didn't get that chance. The opportunity for her to have him would have been almost too great to pass up that night. That's the way she thinks. And after that night, as shown to me in the afore mentioned chat logs, she was quite convinced that he wanted her, so she was happy. All the evidence, and the players, point to them having sex that night, and the only thing contradicting that is the word of the man I love. Its not an easy pill to swallow.

I had so much help from this forum the last time I was having trouble with my boyfriend, so I thought I would come to you again this time, with a conflict that is driving me nutty! This is going to be a long post, but I want to give you all the information I can. First, if you refer to my first posting here (I'm not sure how to link to it or quote it here, sorry) allow me to say that things are still pretty much the same. In a nutshell, he's still stressed out, still seems to be pushing me aside, and I still don't like it, but now there's something new to add to the mix, perhaps guilt. To begin, "Jill" and I were friends for many many years. I know her REALLY well. Jill is a Class A Liar. She can spin a story so thick that she convinces herself that its true. I know this and have always taken what she says with a grain of salt. And she's a 'woman of loose morals'. She'll be the first to tell you that, that's not just my opinion. Jill has slept with 98% of my male friends (and most of my friends are male, so the number is astounding). And knowing how she is, I have always had a strict policy of "If you've slept with Jill, you have NO chance of ever sleeping with me." From Day 1, when my bf and I first met and we were going to go out where Jill was going to be there, I warned my boyfriend about her. I said "Well, its been fun, but once you meet her she's going to try to get into your pants, because that's what she does, and you'll do it, I don't know why, but they all do." He met her, said to me after "Sure, she's cute, but I like you better", etc. I continued to warn him about her, while we were just friends, and after we got into a relationship. When talking about his sexual prowess, he'd joke and say "Tell your friends", to which I would respond "Not a chance, Jill doesn't need more reason to try." So that is a mini introduction to the players... Jill and "Jane" were friends. Jill was getting fed up with Jane, and while talking to me on the phone about telling her to get lost, she came out with "I just wonder what she'll tell people if I tell her to get lost." This made me think, "Oh yeah, what goods has she got on you? Hehe." Little alarm bell went off for me there, but I blew it off. Shortly after that, Jill was at my house and having a good rant about Jane, about her brother whom she's also had a falling out with, and everything else that was bothering her. She's currently pregnant with her on-again, off-again boyfriend's baby, and she was telling me what her brother had said to their mother. Brother - "I don't know how Jill can be sure that's *boyfriend*'s baby, she was sleeping with Pete and Joe too" (Joe referring to my boyfriend). BIG alarm bell! She went on to say that when Pete, an old friend from high school, had visited her, sure they had slept in the same bed but nothing happened, he's like a brother to her. And Joe got too drunk to drive home and crashed on the couch, ooooh... Well, my hackles were raised. I had questions. So I went to talk to Jane. I told her what Jill had said about worrying about what she'd tell people, to which Jane replied, "Oh I do have the goods on her, but I can't get into it, I don't want to hurt you, you don't deserve that." Needless to say, I told her "You can't say that and not tell me, Jane, not knowing is going to be worse." So she told me what she knew. *pause for more background* I used to date a man named Tim. Joe hated Tim because of various conflicts between the 3 of us. I broke up with Tim because I was in love with Joe. Another ex (I know how this sounds, but its not nearly as bad when you know the whole situation, haha) told Joe, months after he and I were a couple, that I was running around on him with Tim. That I had lied to him about where I was on numerous occasions, that I was sleeping with Tim, etc. This was all a load of lies, why he did it I still don't know, but Joe was devistated. Tim was a sore spot with him, always was, and what my ex told him was like his worst nightmares come true. I was out with a friend at the time (a female friend) and knew nothing of what my ex was telling Joe. Why Joe didn't talk to me first, I don't know, but he figured we were over because of all this. He went home, was extremely upset, called everybody because he needed a friend, and the only person home was Jill. So he grabbed some beer and headed out to her place, where he talked and drank with her and that same brother. When I mention 'that night', this is the night I'm referring to. Jane told me that Jill confided in her that that night, she and Joe had kissed. That the next day they had gone for lunch at a local coffee shop, had a wonderful time together, that he was rubbing her leg under the table, and that she really wished she could get her paws on him (what had I warned him about??). Jane was also seeing that same brother at that time, and he had told her that Joe hadn't slept on the couch, that he had actually slept in the same bed as Jill. He said he got up in the morning and thought Joe was gone, but when he went into the kitchen to make coffee, his shoes and coat were still there. After he made the coffee, he went into the living room and there were condom wrappers lying around. Putting two and two together with the evidence at hand, he assumed they had slept together. He told Jane that he had asked Jill about the condom wrappers and that Jill had laughed and said "We were blowing them up and trying to make balloon animals." I don't think I need to tell you that after hearing all this, I was so hurt I was ready to cry. I wanted to talk to the brother, to get his side directly from him as he was the only other person there. When I couldn't get ahold of him (he's since moved out of town) I decided I couldn't wait and had to talk to Joe about it. He did one of his usual "No, I'm not coming over, I said I'd go help my friend with a shed he's building" so I said I wanted to talk to him when he was done. 11pm rolled around, I called his cell, and he said he was just heading home. I asked him if he was going to come by because I really wanted to talk to him and he said he was too tired. I said "Look, stuff has been said and either its true or someone is talking trash about you, I'd like to know which." He said he'd call me when he got home, and he did. I told him I didn't want to talk about it on the phone, but if I had to, here it was... I told him everything that Jane had told me. He was quiet after that, which prompted me to say "Y'know, your silence isn't helping." He said he'd be right over... When he got here, I told him that whatever he told me, he didn't have to worry about hurting me as I was already hurt, but if he told me the truth, no matter what it was, that that was the one night I wouldn't get angry about it. It was like a Get Out Of Jail Free card. I would wipe the slate clean if he would just give me the honest truth. He said they did kiss, that he was really drunk and went upstairs and passed out. When he woke up in the morning, she was lying beside him. And that they really were trying to make balloon animals out of the condoms (short background, he cannot touch a balloon without trying to make a balloon animal out of it, so even though it sounds really weak, it IS what he would do). He said they did go for lunch the next day, but not to the coffee shop that Jill had said, to a diner, and if he couldn't reach my leg under a table to rub it, he certainly couldn't reach hers (she's about 3" shorter than me). Because I had offered him immunity for his honesty, I took him at his word and figured that was it. But its never like that, is it? Through receiving chat log exerpts from Jane, and a mysterious email documenting correspondence between Joe and Jill around that time, I had more doubts than I knew what to do with. I debated forwarding that email on to Joe, but I couldn't just put it out of my mind, there was too much suggested by it. It sounded like she was really worried about what I might know, said "If she knows *everything* than I'd like to be prepared for the dirt possibly hitting the fan", complete with little stars. That seems like an awfully broad word to describe just a kiss, don't you think? So I sent the email to Joe, highlighted the parts that were really bugging me, and asked him to talk to me about it. A couple of days went by and he hadn't said anything. Then on a Saturday night, we were lying in bed, and I was trying to... ehem... get him going. As reward for my efforts, I heard the distinct change in his breathing that said he was almost asleep. I was crushed. I rolled over and uncontrollably let out a sob. I got up and went to the bathroom to collect myself, then came back. Shortly after that, he got up and went to sit in the living room. I joined him and by that time I was ticked. I asked him how he thought that made me feel. I said "Do you know what goes through my mind at a time like this? I think 'He did sleep with Jill, and it was great, of course it would be, she's slept with everyone I know, and now he doesn't want me." He got very upset, said he thought all of this was over and done with, and I said so did I, but after getting that email I couldn't just brush it off. He said he hadn't read it, when he opened it up and saw what it was, he didn't want to deal with it so he closed it unread. He said "I just wish people would mind their own business!" I asked if that included me and he was silent. He said he needed a safe place to be and left, went home for the night. I was a basketcase. I had no way of getting in touch with him so I sat here writing emails to him, pleading for him to come back, that he was the only person who could help me get past this, etc. I said that if by 'minding my own business' he meant that because to him we were through that night so what happened wasn't my business, I thought it was. I told him again what Jill was like, and that I thought it was my business to know if I was going to be sleeping with someone who had slept with her, for my own personal safety. And that I had no idea it was over that night, as far as I knew, I still had a boyfriend, and I hadn't done anything that would have lost him so why would I think such a thing. I spoke to him the next morning, he said he was going to go read the emails, and then call me back. I waited for almost 2 hours, not knowing what was going on, before he finally called. He never commented on the emails, just said "I told you the truth." I asked him to come over and tell me one more time. He did, things settled down, and it seemed like I could finally put it out of my mind, believe what he said, and move on. I mean, could he look me in my tearfilled eyes, the woman he says he loves, and lie to me again? I didn't think so, so I believed him. All was good until last week. The brother finally got in touch with me. He pretty much confirmed what Jane had told me. He said he went to bed before them, and he went to sleep in Jill's son's room because he didn't think it was right to have someone else sleep in there. He said when he woke up and went downstairs, Joe wasn't on the couch so he figured he left. Then he saw the shoes and coat. He said he did indeed find a condom wrapper in the living room, but just one... He said he did indeed put two and two together and assume that because there was a condom wrapper and because they were in the same bed, they must have slept together. He said he went to take a peek in the garbage but found no condom. I know Joe, he never has sex without a condom, and he always flushes it down the toilet. If they did just blow it up to make a balloon animal, why not just toss it in the trash? The brother said it was he who said to Jill the next morning "What, were you making balloon animals?" and she just laughed. So as you can see, all the doubts have come flooding back. I want so badly to believe that Joe told me the truth, but he has every reason to lie. 1. He's already said he's telling the truth, to come clean about it now would make his word worth nothing. 2. He thought I was sleeping with the one person with whom it would hurt him the most, and Jill was the one person who he could sleep with that would hurt me the most. Then he finds out after that I didn't do anything, but its too late, he's already done the worst thing possible to me. 3. Jill is such a liar, she'll never admit to it, the brother only knows what he saw in the morning, so there's no one else that can tell me he lied but him. I think its the 'mind your own business' thing that is really bothering me. And I asked him if he was ever going to tell me about the kiss, and he said no. I just don't know what to do anymore. And after that last blow-up about it, I can't mention it to him again. So I'm on my own with this one, left to try and sort it out. All I wanted out of it all was the truth, and I still don't know if I got that. I love him dearly, just the thought of losing him breaks my heart, but I just can't trust him now. Its starting to effect other things too, like when he says he's going to stay home, or going to go for a ride, or going to his buddy's place, I start to wonder, "Is he really out with her? Is he really out with someone else? Is he looking for someone new so he can chuck me?" Oh, one more thing, I've told Jill that I can't be her friend anymore, and I've asked Joe not to speak to her anymore either. I told him I couldn't make him not speak to her, but that for my peace of mind I would really appreciate it. He never gave me a clear answer on it, and I know they were in communication after I asked him, but after that last blow-up, he finally said that he wouldn't speak to her anymore. I feel terrible for wanting to spy on him, for not trusting him, for having all these doubts about him. Am I just nutty and there's enough evidence here to exhonorate him? Or does it all sound a little too fishy to all of you too? After all these years, I've NEVER known Jill to turn down sex, ever. Why would she stop after just a kiss this time? And how will I ever know the truth? And how do I get past this? Share with me your wisdom, because I am at a total loss.

Don't confuse comfortable with love. The easiest isn't always what's right. Too many people have stayed in stagnant relationships just because it was comfortable, denying themselves true happiness, I did it myself.

Amen, Lady Bugg. Take a step back and put yourself in his shoes, Esboogie. How would you feel if someone kept questioning you're feelings over and over? What you're basically saying with this is, "I don't take your word as the truth so I have to keep asking." Almost sounds like you're trying to make him explode and call it quits, so you come out of it as hurt and in need of comfort. I don't think he's being a bad guy, just relax. When he says he cares, believe him until he DOES something to make you think otherwise. A REAL something too, not imagined or assumed.

Email Peter North and ask him, buckets I swear! haha

Its not unheard of to not be able to achieve orgasm from a hand job. I've known men that are hard pressed to achieve orgasm from oral sex as well. Its not that it doesn't feel fantastic, you wouldn't maintain the erection if it wasn't doing something for you, but sometimes it just doesn't happen. There's a lot of good suggestions in this thread though, give 'em a try.

A fetish is defined as "Something that is not innately sexual that has been sexualize." Being aroused by a woman in full nurse uniform would definitely fall under this catagory, superskinny fems wouldn't, haha. Whether or not your partner understands and/or participates in a particular fetish is entirely personal preference. Like Scotcha said, a woman with super ticklish feet might have a hard time accomodating to a man's foot fetish, not because she thought the fetish was unusual but simply because handling her feet makes her laugh like a hyena. Also, someone with a severe allergy would be unable to participate with a latex fetish, they may like the way it looks but health issues wouldn't make it feasable. It really all depends on the fetish, how extreme it is, and your partner's personal boundaries. A man might be all for tying up his girlfriend because she likes the feeling of being restrained but would draw the line at taking a paddle to her behind because she also has a spanking fetish. Sometimes a generalized discussion with your partner in regards to their thoughts on fetishes and the like is necessary before you spring a "Can you put on this bridle and hand me the crop, please?" on him/her.

They say you don't know what you've got until its gone, and its never truer than when you see your ex who you thought you were over with another person. From what information you've given, it sounds to me like G is either A) realizing that he never should have let you go, or B) really liked the fact that he still had your heart without being committed to you. We all want to feel loved and wanted, and you were giving him that, but he still had his freedom. I think we would all find it flattering and a little thrilling to have someone hung up on us, even if we never reciprocated their feelings. Its an ego boost. If you want my opinion on which option it is, I think he's just stringing you along. He doesn't want you until you don't want him, then he's back full-force trying to get your attention again. I'm not saying that M is the right one for you, with that situation time will only tell, but G sounds like he's playing games. Perhaps if you take a good look at yourself and realize that you don't deserve to be treated that way, you'll see though his Sometimes Love. Again, its just my opinion.

This is going to sound funny, but when insecurity creeps up on me, I usually just say "Meh." With that, I mean "I know who I am, I know I'm a great person, I like who I am, and I have no reason to feel anything less than great about me." As you can see, "meh" is much shorter, lol. It helps me to put those negative thoughts out of my head, thus negating their control over me. Its worked wonders on many occasions.

If it were just the late night phone calls, I would say just turn off the ringer and not answer it. But from what you've described, he is acting a little weird. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you're just finally seeing the real him, and unfortunately the real him is a little strange and obnoxious. I'm sure we've all been there, when you first start dating all the jokes are hilarious, all the little gags leave you rolling on the floor, the tickles are fun, the pranks are cute... but as the relationship moves on, all that starts becoming annoying, you don't laugh anymore, you usually just smile so you don't hurt their feelings. Could your feelings for him be waning so his antics, all be them a little off-base, just be affecting you more?

When in a situation (at a bar with the girls, at a party, etc.) I always ask myself, "Could I do this if my boyfriend was standing right here?". If the answer is no, then I don't do it. Also, I know how much it would hurt me if my boyfriend cheated on me, the jealousy and loss of trust would be overwhelming, and I wouldn't want to put that hurt on someone else, especially someone I loved, no matter what. I don't think any situation makes cheating 'understandable'. Unless you are in an open relationship, everyone else is off-limits.

Well, I am happy to report that I did it. I managed to get him on the phone this evening, and asked him straight out, "Are we ok?". He paused, which of course make me cringe expecting the worst, then said, "We were ok until yesterday." After the sigh of relief that all my panic over the last little while was unwarranted, I asked him what he meant. Yesterday he mentioned that he wanted to go browse golf clubs as he was thinking of taking up golf. In my state of mind at the time, surely you can see how I took this as one more thing that would keep him away. And I said as much to him, "I'll NEVER see you if you take up golf!". Later on he helped me out by taking me to the grocery store (I don't drive, so having him give me a lift saves me the cabfare). I talked about getting my propane tank filled and buying some nice steaks to grill for dinner. I don't know how long I talked about it until he said, "I already had my dinner planned at home." Again, in my state of mind, that was ANOTHER reason to not see me. I got a little quiet after that, trying to sort through what was going on in my head and how to best broach the subject of what was going on with him (hence why I came looking for some help at eNotAlone). He elaborated this evening, saying because of how quiet I got yesterday, he thought I was angry with him for wanting to take up golf. I explained how I have been feeling lately and how that was the reason for my reaction to the golf. He reiterated that his stress level is through the roof, and how being a procrastinator has made it that much worse. He said he knew it was affecting all aspects of his life, including his relationship with me, but he didn't know how to help himself. We talked a little while longer and then I said, "Ok, just to recap, are we ok?" to which he replied, with no hesitation, "Yes.". Then I asked what I can do to help him at least get started on some of his projects to hopefully alleviate some of the stress. He set me to work on researching a few things for him, and when we hung up, he was on his way out the door to get his father's truck finished, finally. He is then going to pick up a movie that we've both wanted to see, come over, and spend some quiet time with me. So, all's well that ends well, and fortunately it was just the rough patch that has ended, not the relationship. I'd like to thank you all for your input, you have given me a world of help and it is greatly appreciated. I hope I can return the favour in abundance! Thank you!!

You said in your original post that neither of these guys are people you particularly like. And I have to follow the common thread here and say your girlfriend should not be having a couple of guys crashing at her place. But like NiceGuysFinishLast said, she did tell you about it, she didn't hide it nor tell you after the fact. Could this be an attempt to get a reaction out of you? Perhaps she's trying to make you jealous with A) the blantant relationship no-no of inviting other guys to sleep at her place, and B) calling you to tell you that this was happening. Perhaps I am a little too trusting in people, but if you were to give her the benefit of the doubt, is it possible that she was just helping out a couple of friends that needed a place to stay, and by calling you to tell you about it was letting you know that you didn't have anything to worry about and avoiding the risk of assumptions being made if you found out about it after?

Thank you all for your posts, it is greatly appreciated! In regards to what CharLit said, that's exactly the pattern of what he's doing. Plans on doing something because the list of what he needs to get done is so long and its stressing him out. He tries to discipline himself by not coming to see me so he can get started on it. Then becomes completely apathetic to it and it doesn't get done, which results in more stress and guilt because he still hasn't accomplished anything. To give you another example - as he is mechanically inclined he's been working on his father's truck as well recently. Its been a battle, fix one thing and another goes. This Saturday evening, he picked me up from work (as he always does), we went to get a bite, then he dropped me off at home with the intent on getting some work done with his father's truck. I said I would meet him there after I had changed, and I did. I know nothing about mechanics but I love helping him do it and he always appreciates the assistance of someone who will listen to what he says and not say "Well, why don't you try it like this?" (as his buddies will do, you know, all guys are mechanics when the hood of a truck is open, lol). He was so pleased when he discovered what was wrong, changed it, and the truck started like a dream. All I really did was hold the light, but he thanked me profusely for my help. After we got cleaned up, we had planned to go for a walk. Before we left he said that the next day he wanted to take a look at something else on the truck and I was going to help him. I said, "Sure!". We got up Sunday morning, went to grab a coffee and a muffin for breakfast, then left to start on the truck. When we got there he discovered that his father and brother were back from fishing early. We never got to work on the truck because he used the excuse of not wanting to do it when so many people were around. Understandably, his father and brother have a tendency to come over and start 'making suggestions', but the excuse still seemed a little weak to me. It was one more thing that didn't get done, and one more thing that he'll be stressing about this week. Also, and this is something that I think I'm reading to much in to, but he's been on a Keeping Up With The Jones' kick lately. Last spring he got his motorcycle license and bought himself a New To You Yamaha Vstar. Its a beautiful bike and he really loves riding it. Of his other friends that have motorocycles, the one has been riding for years and has built and modified his own Harley Davidson (the Cadillac of motorcycles, as I'm sure you know). The other friend who took the license course at the same time as him has just purchased a Harley of his own as well. My boyfriend is stressed about the debt he's put himself in over the years, with credit cards and buying toys and such, yet has been talking about buying a Harley lately. As I said, his Yamaha is a beautiful bike, to those of us who aren't motorcycle connoisseurs, you'd not care that it doesn't say Harley Davidson on the side. But he's bound and determined to have a Harley, even though it will put him more in debt to do so and he's even said, "If I buy one its just to keep up with the Jones'". Unfortunately, these Jones' also have beautiful blonde wives who look great in bikinis. I may be hard on myself at times, but I am a beautiful woman, even if I can't pull off wearing a bikini. I think through all of this I hold the fear that keeping up with the Jones' will include the stacked redhead being replaced with the tiny blonde model. This probably stems from me having a less than satisfied body image as he still makes comments like, "You're so cute!" and "Hey hottie." but it is still a fear, valid or no. I think the reason I have sought help with this situation is because losing this man would be devastating. I am very much in love with him which intensifies the feeling of loss when I'm put on the backburner for other projects than never get done. I have always said to him, "I miss you when you're gone" and lately I've been missing him more than seeing him. I believe I will simply ask him, "Are we ok?" and tell him that I would expect him to tell me if we weren't, hopefully giving him a window to open a discussion if we're not ok. I don't want to appear as needy or clingy when he doesn't need those things when he's already stressed out, and I think taking the simple approach like gives him the opportunity to talk if there is a problem yet doesn't create a problem if there isn't one. Any comments? I realize my response are rather long, lol, but hopefully they aren't just babble and I'm giving you all as much information about the situation as I can. I really do appreciate the help, thank you all very much.

I will freely admit I am scared. As I said, I have never given so much of myself to someone and as such have much more at stake than ever before. Its true, the 'honeymoon' may be over, and we had a lot of that giddy, schoolyard crush feeling for a long time, and perhaps it has just mellowed out to a more reasonable pace, but it was very abrupt. Having been good friends first, we were already very comfortable with each other when we moved into the committed relationship. Our relationship overall is very good, or has been up until now. I never felt as though I was being put off or pushed aside when he had other things to do, but lately that's the way it feels. He says he's under stress, that he has so much on his plate and none of it is getting done. So I try to help as much as I can, and offer as much insight and as many suggestions as I can, which he always appreciates. An example of his recent behavior would be - I talk to him on the phone and ask if we're going to do anything, watch a movie, go for a walk, etc. He says he really needs to get to work on fixing the engine in his truck (he has a car which is his main vehicle, the truck is more of a toy). He says he's going to stay home to do that. I say that's not a problem, good luck, give me a call later to say goodnight. When he calls later I ask how it went with the truck and he says he never got out to look at it. He either watched TV instead, or fell asleep. That seems to be the pattern as of late. Says he's not coming over because he has to do something else, and then not do that something else. I can tell that he's not himself. He always seems to be in a bad mood, which in turn puts me into a bad mood. I've always been the type to try and cheer someone up when they aren't feeling so hot, and I do, but by the time I next see him, the cloud is back over his head. I don't know if he's doing it to himself, blowing things out of proportion and stressing himself out further, or if he's just unhappy and as such all other problems look that much bigger. Like I said before, we have always had a great line of communication, have always felt that we could talk about anything and everything with each other, so if something is bothering him with the relationship, is it unusual for me to think that he would say something? I hesitate to talk to him about how I've been feeling, as I think opening such a conversation may just add to his burden of stress, thus making a problem when there wasn't one to begin with. I can think of no further important info that I could add, I can't really think of a specific event or series of events that led up to this apparent distancing of himself from me. As I said before, it was rather abrupt. I don't suspect him of cheating, never have and he's never given me any reason to. There was an incident a couple of months ago when I discovered he had been having webcam conversations with another woman that got a little graphic, but when I spoke to him about it he said he never really thought of it in that sense and was looking at it as more of an extension of the live webcam sites and such. Once I explained that I didn't agree with it, anyone can click and watch a live webcam girl strut her stuff, and she's getting paid to do it, this girl was giving him a private show, he said it wouldn't happen again and I am confidant that he truly meant that. I've never been bothered by my man watching pornography, or going to a stripclub, being confident in our relationship and his feelings towards me, but this time it was a little too close to the line of what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. There was no fight, no argument even, just calm, mature conversation where I expressed my feelings about it and he agreed they were valid and now that it had been brought to his attention in that light, would not happen again. The only thing to have changed at all is the weather. If I had to put a timeline to when I started feeling like he was pulling away, I would have to say it was when the weather began getting really nice. Spring is always a series of ups and downs with the weather, and our relationship, or the way I'm feeling it, seems to be following that pattern. If I didn't know better, I would say it was the full moon effecting him, lol. I'm on the fence, I don't know if I'm reading too much in to things and overreacting, or if subconsciously I'm reading warning signs and to ignore them would make things much worse. He has the day off tomorrow, the first in months, but has made himself a list of things to do. If I can manage to get him to pencil me in to that schedule, perhaps I can sit him down and talk to him about all this, but as I said before, he fills his time with other things, leaving little left for me. All I can do is try, right?

I have to agree with Gracelove's comment that perhaps this girl doesn't want to get too close, thus making saying good-bye that much harder. If things are good the way they are, you have a great time together, you share a bond, and communicate, then don't put the added pressure of wanting more from her if she's not willing to give it. But I also have to agree with nicorette in that 8 months is a long time. Think where you were 8 months ago and how things have changed since. In 6 months time you two may have lost interest or on the other hand she could be ready to think about making her stay in the US permanent. Slow down, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither are great relationships. See how things progress for the next little while and then revisit the possibility of making a more committed step. You may not feel like you have the luxury of time, but make the time you do have well worth it. Live for now, not in anticipation of her departure.

I can't tell you how glad I was to come accross this site while looking for a few answers. I thought "Aha! Perfect!". That being said, allow me to begin. My boyfriend and I have been together for around 6 months now, but we've been friends for much longer. When we met, we both said we weren't interested in commentment so there was none of the pressure of being potential mates. As such, we really got to know each other and always had a great time together. One day he came to me and said, "I think I know why I get icky when you talk about your other guy friends," to which I responded, "Oh?". He proceeded to say, "Its because I'm head over heels in love with you." It took me a little by surprise, not in a negative way, and when I gave it some thought I realized that I felt the same way about him. We've been together since. The problem I'm having now is, things seem to have changed. I would like very much to think I'm imagining it, but having perused a few articles and forums on this site, I thought I best get some input. He used to wrap me up in his arms and say, "I just can't get enough of you!". He said the hardest part of his day was when he had to leave here at night, and he started to miss me as soon as his foot left my bottom step. Lately though, it almost feels as though he's reached a point where he's gotten enough of me. I see less and less of him when he used to take every opportunity he could get to see me, even if it was a quick stop for a kiss and a hug. I know he's busy, and has a lot of projects he would like to get done, but the projects are barely crawling toward completion and its almost like he's finding new ways to stay away. Our sex life has suffered as well. When I asked him about it, he simply said he's stressed at work and at home and just really isn't feeling in the mood lately. Is it naive of me to take it at face value and believe when he says nothing is wrong, its just stress? Or is there a little voice inside my head blasting warning messages? Could it just be paranoia as I have given more of myself to this man than any other and have more to lose than ever before if things did fall apart? We've always been able to talk to each other, about anything, so I know I can talk to him about this, but I just don't know what to say. Any suggestions?