Once a cheater always a cheater?

[ytterp]

Hi there,

 

I am a female wanting a opinion on cheating.....

 

Sorry this is a bit of a long one but just want to get the full story in!

 

Do you think a cheater ever changes, once a cheater always a cheater?

 

I have been with my boyfriend for a year and a few months ago, I found a few posts on his computer about dating other women etc.

 

Basically I don't know if you have heard of the book 'the game' but he is a pick up artist that tries to score with as many women as possible.

 

I found this out a few months ago, and the hard way. I found posts all about me on this site, decribing everything we ever did, what I would say in bed, right down to the position we did that night...it shocked me and he was getting feedback from everyone as he goes.

 

Now i can understand that we all need feedback, hence why I am posting this but he is an extremely good looking guy with a lot going for him.

 

I accessed his email as he left it on the computer one night when we were in bed, i got up to use the bathroom and saw it on, so i searched his inbox and found messages from a girl saying she really enjoyed herself and misses him and can't wait to see him.

 

Anyway so I confronted him with everything, he was so upset and ashamed that I had found out and apologise (he inever apologises!) and admited that he was a pick up artist who went out his way to attract women and wrote about it. He promised he has not cheated on me, just gone on dates and got numbers and followed up girls when he shouldn't of. He said onec you start its hard to get out of, you are so used to approaching girls, it come naturally..(ummm yeah)

 

We decided to move on from this as he hadn't cheated and besides that we were very happy together.

 

Anyway I pressed him about this one girl sending him the message, i miss you etc months after I found the email. After days of me asking what happened, he finally admited after I pretended i knew anyway, that he had slept with this girl more then once when we were together. He apparently did this when my ex boyfriend flew out to win me back and I was honest with him and told him everything, he said he cheated on me to get me back as he thoughti was up to no good with my ex (which I turned down cold, didn't want anything to do with again and he flew back very unhappy!)

 

I took this well as at least we were moving forward, and he was being honest at last and he cheated when we first got together.

 

Now i knew a lot about what he has been up to by his posts on this pick -up site.

 

So I know he cheated on his ex girlfriend all the time, which he loved...because he was getting to master the art of seducing! and he even starting dating me while he was still in a relationship with her (which I only recently found out)

 

Do you think he will ever change? He now included me in everything and it seems he is a lot more open after he has confessed, I love him and want this to work but I also don't want to be the one that gets hurt.

 

All his friends say how much in love he is with me and how he has always been scared of commitment but has even said i may be 'the one'

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks guys! x

[melrich]

I think there are two types of cheaters.

 

The Adulterer. This type needs a confluence of events to occur that leads to cheating. It may be a period of high stress, unhappiness in a relationship or marriage, loss of a job etc. Often this type will cheat only the once and they may suffer such tremendous guilt that they'll never even consider doing so again.

 

The Womaniser. This type is a serial cheater and is only interested in conquest. Your b/f sounds like he fits into this category.

[mintblossom]

I think that if you stay with this guy, you are just fooling yourself and when this type of thing comes up again with him, you will feel even worse.

 

you know that saying "hurt me once, shame on you? hurt me twice, shame on me?" i'm starting to think that saying has more depth to it than i thought.

 

the writing is so clear on this guy. he's shady. he's up to no good. he cheats on you. just because he's "open" about it doesn't mean anything.

 

let me tell you, once, i was pressured to mess around with a guy (which i felt very sick about afterwards) and then this girl calls him on his cell. he told me that "oh yeah, we just broke up." and i asked "when?" and he said "two weeks ago." and i thought.....disgusting...absolutely disgusting. i cannot live like this, i will not do this to myself, he is gross. and i cut him off. changed my phone number, blocked all my contact info, email. you name it. ITS SICK. and i will have nothing to do with him. i rather poke my eyeballs out first.

 

let's say I were to write a handbook on being a "player". what do you think i would say if i got caught? i would say "well baby, im am so sorry, i love you so much but i guess i am just getting caught up in bad habits and i admit i cheated and im so sorry but will you forgive me?"

 

*GAG* seriously. DONT TAKE HIS BULL * * * *.

 

-he's posted all about your sex life on a forum

-he reads manuals on how to play women

-OF COURSE, his buddies are going to back him up and tell you that he "loves you". you know why? players hang out with other players.

-he's cheated on you

-you find emails with other women writing to him.

 

if you stay, you are fooling yourself.

[kate111]

Ahhhhh. Get away from this man.

 

You have to wonder what else he is hiding. Unless you are fine with an open relationship this is going to make you unhappy.

[BoddenProBowler06]

This guy is nothing but scum. Anyone that cheats will lie about it and get his buddies to back him up. You are being pulled along a road that will lead to nothing but sadness. Get rid of this guy before he hurts you anymore.

[kate111]

Hmm yes the friends are probably covering for him. Nice.

[kr356]

I think there are two types of cheaters.

 

The Adulterer. This type needs a confluence of events to occur that leads to cheating. It may be a period of high stress, unhappiness in a relationship or marriage, loss of a job etc. Often this type will cheat only the once and they may suffer such tremendous guilt that they'll never even consider doing so again.

 

The Womaniser. This type is a serial cheater and is only interested in conquest. Your b/f sounds like he fits into this category.

 

I completely agree with you here, I have never heard of this before but I have come accross both.

 

Hi there,

 

I am a female wanting a opinion on cheating.....

 

Sorry this is a bit of a long one but just want to get the full story in!

 

Do you think a cheater ever changes, once a cheater always a cheater?

 

I have been with my boyfriend for a year and a few months ago, I found a few posts on his computer about dating other women etc.

 

Basically I don't know if you have heard of the book 'the game' but he is a pick up artist that tries to score with as many women as possible.

 

I found this out a few months ago, and the hard way. I found posts all about me on this site, decribing everything we ever did, what I would say in bed, right down to the position we did that night...it shocked me and he was getting feedback from everyone as he goes.

 

Now i can understand that we all need feedback, hence why I am posting this but he is an extremely good looking guy with a lot going for him.

 

I accessed his email as he left it on the computer one night when we were in bed, i got up to use the bathroom and saw it on, so i searched his inbox and found messages from a girl saying she really enjoyed herself and misses him and can't wait to see him.

 

Anyway so I confronted him with everything, he was so upset and ashamed that I had found out and apologise (he inever apologises!) and admited that he was a pick up artist who went out his way to attract women and wrote about it. He promised he has not cheated on me, just gone on dates and got numbers and followed up girls when he shouldn't of. He said onec you start its hard to get out of, you are so used to approaching girls, it come naturally..(ummm yeah)

 

We decided to move on from this as he hadn't cheated and besides that we were very happy together.

 

Anyway I pressed him about this one girl sending him the message, i miss you etc months after I found the email. After days of me asking what happened, he finally admited after I pretended i knew anyway, that he had slept with this girl more then once when we were together. He apparently did this when my ex boyfriend flew out to win me back and I was honest with him and told him everything, he said he cheated on me to get me back as he thoughti was up to no good with my ex (which I turned down cold, didn't want anything to do with again and he flew back very unhappy!)

 

I took this well as at least we were moving forward, and he was being honest at last and he cheated when we first got together.

 

Now i knew a lot about what he has been up to by his posts on this pick -up site.

 

So I know he cheated on his ex girlfriend all the time, which he loved...because he was getting to master the art of seducing! and he even starting dating me while he was still in a relationship with her (which I only recently found out)

 

Do you think he will ever change? He now included me in everything and it seems he is a lot more open after he has confessed, I love him and want this to work but I also don't want to be the one that gets hurt.

 

All his friends say how much in love he is with me and how he has always been scared of commitment but has even said i may be 'the one'

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks guys! x

 

I'm sorry to break this to you, but personally because of what he has writen about you and the fact that he is bragging about being with all these different women I would put that down to him being a 'womaniser' cheater, as melrich stated and won't change. and as much as you want to believe him when he tells you how much he loves you, and thinks you are the one, the womanising he has done.. that you have proof of.. how do you know this isn't just to get you back..

 

Normally I would tell someone if you really love someone and you find out that they have cheated, give them a second chance because they can change.. but if they dont and do it again, that's it.. i would leave.. but in your case.. with the things he has done.. do you really want to be treated that way? like you are nothing more then a conquest to him? because you are so much better then that. you deserve more then that. but can you be strong and leave and find someone that will treat you the way you deserve to be treated or will you stay and be stuck with a guy that will treat you like crap?

 

if you stay, make sure you have rules for yourself, and he knows what the rules are. make sure you follow through if he stuffs up again and leave or do whatever you have threatened, if you don't he will know he can just keep doing it and you will come back time and time again.

 

Have some respect for yourself.

 

and yes, it is easier to say these things to someone, then to do them in that situation but you need to do it for you, you're the number 1 priority not him.

[kr356]

I took this well as at least we were moving forward, and he was being honest at last and he cheated when we first got together.

 

Now i knew a lot about what he has been up to by his posts on this pick -up site.

 

So I know he cheated on his ex girlfriend all the time, which he loved...because he was getting to master the art of seducing! and he even starting dating me while he was still in a relationship with her (which I only recently found out)

 

Do you think he will ever change?

 

I just re-read your post and this one part jumped out at me.

 

after months of telling you that he hadn't cheated on you (although personally going on dates with someone else whether they have sex or not is cheating to me) you find out that he had really slept with someone else!

He writes updates on a pickup site about you and other girls!

He cheated on his ex!

and cheated on her with YOU, without your knowledge!

 

and you are asking if he will change? if he could change, why hasn't he yet?

[auroradawn]

To your question, "once a cheater, always a cheater," it seems as if he ALWAYS was a cheater...it didn't happen just once. I do believe in second chances, but how could you ever trust this guy??? he was not honest with you from the start (dating you while beingwith another woman???). He will bring you nothing but stress..you deserve more

[ytterp]

You are so right! everyone...even when I read my post I think what an idiot! Thank you for all your input

 

But it's strange, I love everything about him beside this enormous flaw, I actually feel his love and he is very emotional with me and I do feel 100% loved. This cheating side of him is like a different person.

 

He didn't really get much attention as a teenager, he was good looking but very tall and awkward and shy and he had his heart broken early on, with a girlfriend running off with his friend. No excuse I know!

 

He was learning how to attract women when he met his now ex girlfriend and carried on playing other girls to learn. he said he has grown a lot since then and even has his own business now, so he is basically a professional pick-up artist and he has been open about this ever since i found out.

 

You are right about the friends, players do hang out with players so yes they are just helping each other.

 

We recently went to a party (he just said it was one of his friends) and once we were there, my boyfriend told me these guys were all pick-up artists and i was stuck in a room with all of them, and I was disgusted! I felt sick that men were preying on women and finding it entertaining. When they were eyeing women, talking about conquests etc my boyfriend just kept quiet and spent time with me, they made jokes that I have to let him out more often!

 

It just feels wrong but the relationship feels right, does that make sense?

 

I have never met anyone like him before, he has the same interests as me and loves animals, is affectionate and does nice things for me but also has his player side, that he is convinced is what attracted me!

 

He has done wrong by me, he has I see that and it hurts but I just need to find out whether he will change, as if he does, he would be perfect.

 

But in all your experiences, once a guy has cheated, will he again?

 

X

[kr356]

if he continues to do it like he seems to have been doing, I haven't seen a guy change from that, I have seen a guy change from cheating with someone for a while, but technically that was only 1 woman and not a few different ones.

 

I can understand that what you are saying

It just feels wrong but the relationship feels right, does that make sense?

 

and like I said, if you choose to stay with him, make up rules, boundaries for yourself because staying will set you up for a potential fall and you have to be prepared for that. You also have to be prepared that if he know hows you have caught him out, he will be extra careful if he continues to cheat.. he will start deleting all his emails, internet history, he will get annoyed if you want to answer his phone, etc.

 

In the end it's up to you if you want to take that chance, but I have been heartbroken over cheaters one to many times for me to go ahead if I was you.

 

whatever you decide, good luck and remember that you are your number 1 priority and you have to look out for your own best interests

[auroradawn]

I would say most definitely it depends on the guy...again...he has done it numourous times, so in my experience, I would say you would be gambling with your heart big time, as you will probably end up getting hurt. However, if things are as good as you say they are, maybe if he realizes how close you guys are to ending it he would change his ways. I would say that is a fairly slim chance, though, as he seems to thrive off of this livestyle. It seems as if he has very low self-esteem and needs the constant re-assurance of being admired, and wanted by numerous women. What he has to remember is he wont have his looks forever, and if he keeps on treating women as badly as he is treating you, he is going to be one lonely old man.

[mintblossom]

i don't seem to be getting through to you. how do i put this really clearly?

 

- speaking as an angry, bitter hurt female who's been played before...if you enjoy having your heart ripped out from your chest cavity and through your throat then stay with this guy.

 

i really don't believe in that "im different from the other girls" ,"he really loves me" saying.

[HellFrost666]

You love everything about him but this enormous flaw. Ok, that's all well and good. But if "this enormous flaw" continues, which I believe it will, all those things you love about him won't matter anymore. I hope for your sake this happens more sooner then later.

 

In other words, wake up.

[kr356]

i don't seem to be getting through to you. how do i put this really clearly?

 

- speaking as an angry, bitter hurt female who's been played before...if you enjoy having your heart ripped out from your chest cavity and through your throat then stay with this guy.

 

i really don't believe in that "im different from the other girls" ,"he really loves me" saying.

 

she asked for advice, not for us to make her do what we would do. so while you have given her that advice, you are starting to sound like she has only one option, when that isn't true.. sometimes we need to learn things the hard way even though we ask for advice.. i'm sure she read your reply as well as all of our replies, all we can do is tell her what we think, and then hope that she doesnt get hurt again

[mintblossom]

im not in the mood to put anything in pretty euphemisms. there is only ONE way with a guy like this. and that is to leave. to say anything else, i would be lying.

 

but hey, it's not my life. i honestly don't care to make other ppl's decisions for them. it's not my business.

 

and the only road i can see this leading to is the heartbreak motel. that is me being honest and blunt.

 

telling it like it is is more important than telling ppl what they want to hear.

 

i don't like seeing girls disrespecting themselves, letting themselves get cheated on or putting up with bad behavior from men. it's not right and it rewards bad people. i dislike seeing people get trampled upon. it's not right.

[kr356]

im not in the mood to put anything in pretty euphemisms. there is only ONE way with a guy like this. and that is to leave. to say anything else, i would be lying.

 

but hey, it's not my life. i honestly don't care to make other ppl's decisions for them. it's not my business.

 

and the only road i can see this leading to is the heartbreak motel. that is me being honest and blunt.

 

telling it like it is is more important than telling ppl want they want to hear.

 

seems like your heartache was only recent.

everyone here has been blunt, and honest with her.. but it doesn't mean she will go with that, we can't just force her to do it.. that's why i told her if she chooses to stay that she needs to make sure she set herself boundaries, things she will not tolerate and he needs to know these as well...

 

I'm sorry for your pain, and I agree that guys like this guy seems to be.. he is no good and she shouldn't fall for his crap.

 

I agree with you as well, that telling it like it is, is more important then telling someone what they want to hear.. and i dont think anyone here is sugarcoating anything..

 

I hope you are able to work past your pain and anger soon though. It's a horrible thing to go through, being cheated on.

[mintblossom]

ah well. my heartbreak was more than a year ago. but i remember it with such pain. to be down and out after recovering from an abusive relationship that nearly killed me..and then to be kicked when i was down. what kind of person kicks another when they are already suffering?

 

nevertheless.....harsh lessons to be learned here. when someone dumps you....nothing you can do. when someone hurts you....nothing you can do. when you despair....nothing you can do. when he hurts you.....nothing you can do. when he cheats....nothing you can do. when he doesnt care about your feelings....nothing you can do. when he lies to you....nothing you can do. when he teams up with his friends against you.....nothing you can do. when he manipulates you....nothing you can do. when you makes you cry....leaves you cold.....leaves you for another girl.....plays games.....was lying along.....NOTHING you can do.

 

so the best thing is to never get into that kind of thing in the first place.

 

i hate seeing girls go through this. these kind of men deserve to have their balls ripped out and hung to dry.

[Tpysl]

It seems like you're really just trying to ignore the fact that HE HAS CHEATED ON YOU AND LIED TO YOU. If that in itself isn't bad enough, he has also told you he's a PICK-UP ARTIST. Next, ALL OF HIS FRIENDS ARE THE SAME. Any one of these is already a huge red flag, and yet he encompasses all of these extremely negative qualities. You're really just setting yourself up.

 

To summarize, YES, HE WILL CHEAT ON YOU AGAIN, even if he promises he won't.

[musicguy]

I've always thought once a cheater..always a cheater. Once you break the trust it's hard to gain it back..you gotta earn it back

[arwen]

Sweetie, I think that you are setting yourself up to be played more if you stay with him. You are sending him the message that he CAN do this, without losing you. I understand that you think he is what you need, but if you read your own posts, can't you see that he REALLY is NOT the man you are looking for? I have a feeling that being in a relationship with a man like this gives you a better feeling about yourself. I think that that is risky, your good opinion of yourself should not depend on anyone else.

 

I think that chances are that he will just continue this behaviour, maybe he will hide it a bit better though. What reason does he have to NOT stop this? I mean he can have it both (you and playing the field).

 

You say that he apologized and said that that was special because he NEVER apologizes... what? He NEVER apologizes? I think that that is a huge red flag. To me it means that he only apologizes when he gets caught, not because what he did was wrong in his own eyes.

 

Arwen

[ytterp]

Thanks for your advice, I know you have to give it to me how it is, I just wanted an honest opinion. And I got it.. Thank you kr356 for being so understanding, you sound like a wonderful person!

 

I knew what I would receive back and deep down i know what I need to do but it is so frustrating when you think you found someone special!

 

I am getting obsessed too with checking up on him, cracking passwords and checking his phone, its a joke!

 

I just feel like I try to go for the right guys and they always end up being liars or cheaters, I am starting to think there is something wrong with me!

 

X

[arwen]

Thanks for your advice, I know you have to give it to me how it is, I just wanted an honest opinion. And I got it.. Thank you kr356 for being so understanding, you sound like a wonderful person!

 

I knew what I would receive back and deep down i know what I need to do but it is so frustrating when you think you found someone special!

 

I am getting obsessed too with checking up on him, cracking passwords and checking his phone, its a joke!

 

I just feel like I try to go for the right guys and they always end up being liars or cheaters, I am starting to think there is something wrong with me!

 

X

 

Hey ytterp,

 

I don't intend to hurt your feelings, I hope I didn't. I think that you are worth so much more than being played by a player type. I think that what you say here is really important.

 

I just want to recommend you a book by Young and Klosko: "Reinventing your Life". It's a book about the unconscious vicious circles we can be trapped in and how to change that from inside out.

 

It's sadly a common pattern that people who are cheated on, somehow keep in being attracted to people who again cheat on them. Still, a significant number of men (and women) are looking for a commitment, and not for playing the field while having a security blanket on the side (you in this case).

 

Do you feel confident about yourself when you are not in a relationship? What are the things you think people would say about you, say, if they'd have to write a dating profile for you? Do you see the positives in yourself? Somehow I get the feeling that without someone being attracted to you, you feel not so confident. I could be wrong, I write this because I recognize a lot of what you write (in past experiences of my own). I also had the feeling I was dating the same person over and over again after my first bf. He had an 'emotional' affair and while we weren't really broken up, he started a real relationship with her. He's still with her. I had been blind for what he did for YEARS! Now, 4 years later and a few bf's ahead... I am finally with the man I was looking for. But mind you, I have known him for 2 years before we got together and never thought I'd fancy him. I was the one who needed to change and build up confidence of my own before I saw that he could be Mr Right for me.

 

I hope that this helps you. Take care,

 

Arwen

[Brooding_Goddess]

Once a cheater always a cheater - to put it in perspective - when a person finds it easy to cheat the 1st & 2nd time - the 3rd, 4th and subsequent will happen. The cheater may be sorry at the moment of being discovered but not necessarily sorry for what he or she has done or took place. No prejudices but having read so much on enotalone, i think we all have to smarten up and decide if we want to take the risk and date someone who has cheated on us, or a history of cheating (serial or not doesnt matter). And for those who are still wondering, a hasty decision is always a bad decision.

[EvaGina]

Once a cheater always a cheater - to put it in perspective - when a person finds it easy to cheat the 1st & 2nd time - the 3rd, 4th and subsequent will happen. The cheater may be sorry at the moment of being discovered but not necessarily sorry for what he or she has done or took place. No prejudices but having read so much on enotalone, i think we all have to smarten up and decide if we want to take the risk and date someone who has cheated on us, or a history of cheating (serial or not doesnt matter). And for those who are still wondering, a hasty decision is always a bad decision.

 

But, I could be classified as a cheater, and what you wrote certainly doesnt apply to me.