"Men are never too shy to approach the girl they really like"

[Dako]

Luke,

You make it sound like your mother is a jealous wife.

My mother wants me to flirt with girls so she knows I'm healthy.

 

Why does she have this effect on you?

[Luke Skywalker]

I dont know. I'm just tend to get lazy with girls when I'm around her or my dad or go easier on myself. But if I'm really attracted to someone, then I may go back to the store later, and sometimes my mom has even helped there. I'm referring more to talking and practise.

 

However, the second paragraph I mentioned is more powerful then my mom. That is, if lets say a tall white guy is chatting up an indian girl, or a confident charming type of guy is beside another girl making her laugh, even though they may both be strangers, and even though I may want to talk to the girl myself, as she may be a cashier or perhaps another stranger around, then I'd likely lose all confidence in approach since it's hard enough for me to say a weak 'hi' and feel blown away when that happens.

 

Perhaps I would like to emphasise a point that's not there. A shy guy wont likely approach if the subject girl appears to be having a socially good-time or good-rapport with another guy perceived to be more outgoing, confident and/or have more masculine qualities. She could just be a cashier and the other guy may be a customer, and both be strangers, or something else of an impersonal context, but the result would be the same. They would likely feel envious and just walk away because it's not in him to make someone laugh or have a good-time with them like other guys and feelings of inadequacy prevail.

[Gunner6543]

You may not choose to be shy but you choose whether to seek help to overcome the shyness, just like people who fear public speaking can get help to overcome the fear if it is worth it to them. I would think that with few exceptions, a shy person could work on the shyness issue sufficiently to be able to ask a woman out for coffee.

 

Which is something that shyness can prevent you from doing.

 

Having though about it a little, i would agree with the statement and with your point. If the shyness was a more say conventional idea of shy, ie being a little bit nervous, which everyone has to some extent.

 

Rather than the levels that some of the poster here (myself included) are suffering (have suffered). If i use drinking an an analogy the difference between some who like s a drink and an alcoholic

[Batya33]

Which is something that shyness can prevent you from doing.

 

Having though about it a little, i would agree with the statement and with your point. If the shyness was a more say conventional idea of shy, ie being a little bit nervous, which everyone has to some extent.

 

Rather than the levels that some of the poster here (myself included) are suffering (have suffered). If i use drinking an an analogy the difference between some who like s a drink and an alcoholic

 

From what I have heard, alcoholics can be treated at, for example, alcoholics anonymous - they will always be "recovering" but they can choose to stop drinking with the proper support.

[annie24]

I think some men are too shy to approach the girl they really like. I definitely think it is a self-confidence issue. It's something that the person has to get over themselves, from within. Just because a woman asks a guy out won't "break his wall of shyness" forever.

 

After I graduated from high school, one of my male friends confessed to me that he had a crush on me for the last 4 years. Well, too little, too late, I was on my way off to college, hundreds of miles away. I can't say that I would have gone out with him, we had become just friends, I can't say that I liked him as more.... Anyways, he is doing well now. We still talk occasionally, he has a long term gf and I am very happy for him!

 

I think that if you have a feeling like a guy is really shy, sure, drop hints, suggest you two do something together, like coffee, or get lunch sometime. But I do agree with batya, if you are the one doing most of the initiating, date planning in the first few months, that is not a good sign.

 

PS - I have asked out plenty of men, and honestly, have stopped (for first dates anyways). I ask out guys for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... dates.

[Batya33]

I have had those "confessions" too - sometimes it is shyness and sometimes the guy is more comfortable with the fantasy of what could have been than trying out the reality.

[BigSurge]

Never underestimate the awesome power of fear. in this case, fear of rejection. Especially from a girl a guy genuinely likes. Rejection like that can crush a mans ego, spirit, and will to live.

[Batya33]

Yes- I agree it is a choice whether the priority is the fear of rejection or asking a person out on a date. Often interest level in the person will determine the priorities. I have asked men out - my fear of rejection has not overhwelmed me to that extent but I have an unrelated fear that I have let control my actions so I can relate to the strength of a fear. However, I have worked on getting that fear into perspective over a period of many years and today I am able to do things I was not able to do before despite the fear. A long hard road with steps backwards at times but I am happy with the progress I have made.

[JulieW]

I own the book, 'He's just not that into you' and there are several things in there that I just don't agree with.

 

One of the comments is that a woman shouldn't think that the man is just too overwhelmed/shy whatever when he isn't calling you.

 

I can't quote the book but the jist is that, 'If he likes you, he'll call. Do you really think it's that difficult?'

 

Frankly I think the only time it ISN'T difficult is when the guy only wants a superficial relationship. Not too hard to call someone when you don't care if they reject you now is it?? There's always another girl but there isn't always another AMAZING girl

[Batya33]

I own the book, 'He's just not that into you' and there are several things in there that I just don't agree with.

 

One of the comments is that a woman shouldn't think that the man is just too overwhelmed/shy whatever when he isn't calling you.

 

I can't quote the book but the jist is that, 'If he likes you, he'll call. Do you really think it's that difficult?'

 

Frankly I think the only time it ISN'T difficult is when the guy only wants a superficial relationship. Not too hard to call someone when you don't care if they reject you now is it?? There's always another girl but there isn't always another AMAZING girl

 

Of course it is always hard- the issue is priority - is his priority giving in to the fear of rejection or getting a date with you? Just like going for a job you want - the fear of messing up on the interviews v. the benefit of getting a job.

[DN]

Obviously when someone wants a job or a relationship that is their priority - but if shyness or some other fear gets in the way and literally stops people in their tracks the priority is overtaken by reality.

[Batya33]

To me it's semantics. When you have a fear, you have a choice - you can give in to your fear or, if the goal is more important than the fear, you can do the work it takes to overcome the fear. If a person is that scared of speaking to another person out of a fear of rejection, or whatever, then that person has to balance the priorities - if having the person in his/her life is the priority, that person will choose to work on the fear and do what it takes to do the minimum required to approach the person. If the fear is insurmountable even with therapy or medication then I would venture a guess that even if he or she could approach the person the strength of the fear would also keep him/her from being able to communicate effectively going forward. In that case I would say that the person was emotionally unavailable for a romantic relationship at that point in time.

 

I have missed out on many experiences because of my fear. Each time I had to do that same weighing process. The times when I chose to overcome the fear was because in the weighing process I knew I had to take the risk in order to reach my goal. Sometimes that meant a whole lot of uncontrollable shaking, having to do various psychological exercises to get myself through it, sometimes I had to take medication. I have spoken to professionals about the fear over the last 30 years (when it started)

 

So, yes, I would say the shy guy who cannot overcome his fear enough to ask a woman whether she would like to have coffee is interested but not at that time available for a romantic relationship.

[DN]

I think that is a very logical idea - in part.

 

The problem is that human emotions are not logical and cannot be categorised in such a way. Some people simply can't 'decide to do the work to overcome a fear' because even if they try the fear is overwhelming.

 

However, to take that further and to assume that someone who is to shy to initiate a relationship is not ready for a relationship is not logical. If someone initiates the relationship with them and does most or all of the pursuing then they may have no problem with that and have a perfectly happy relationship. It has happened many times.

[Batya33]

I know of no (and have never known of any) long term happy healthy relationships where the woman did most of the asking, initiating and planning for the first few months (or even less than that). And I know many people shy and otherwise and of many people, shy and otherwise. That's just my perspective from the hundreds of people I know and know of in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond. I know of a few examples of happy long term relationships where the woman made the first move but typically she just beat him to the punch.

[Weeblie]

I know a woman who proposed to her husband. They're pretty darn happy.

Is it common? Heck no.

I think it's difficult because we're raised to think that women should be pursued and men should do the pursuing. Stray from the formula and people feel like things aren't right.

[Dako]

I'm afraid I agree, DN.

People with fears fall in love and have fine relationships.

I know of no perfect couples or exactly matched pairs. Each has their strengths that dovetail. Many men or woman are socially inept and still have much to offer within a relationship.

As bitter as I am about marriage, at best it's a tag team effort when it's working well.

That's one of the best parts of it.

[Batya33]

Yes I agree. I am not referring to perfect couples, just couples who are reasonably stable/content long term and I know of no such couples where the woman did most of the planning, initiating and asking in the first few months of the relationship.

[Batya33]

I know a woman who proposed to her husband. They're pretty darn happy.

Is it common? Heck no.

I think it's difficult because we're raised to think that women should be pursued and men should do the pursuing. Stray from the formula and people feel like things aren't right.

 

I also know of women who proposed - I think that's great and can lead to happy marriages the same as a man proposing can. I am referring to women who do most of the asking out on dates, most of the calling, most of the initiating contact in the first few months of the relationship - I know of no long term happy relationships that result from that behavior.

[DN]

Yes I agree. I am not referring to perfect couples, just couples who are reasonably stable/content long term and I know of no such couples where the woman did most of the planning, initiating and asking in the first few months of the relationship.

But that does not mean they do not exist. After all your acquaintanceship is a tiny fraction of the world population and you do not know if it is representative enough to be a reliable indicator.

[Batya33]

And the same goes for the people you know as well and you too are making a statement based on your experiences. We just happen to have different experiences. I am not saying I am right - I qualified my opinion by stating it is formed from the hundreds of people I know and know of. Based on my broad-based experiences and my general views of man-woman relationships I would never advise a woman to do most of the initiating, planning and asking for the first few months if she wanted a long term happy, stable relationship. I would advise her that if that was what was happening he likely either was not that into her or not available for a long term relationship with her.

 

If she just wanted to be married and did not care about romantic love, or love in general and enjoyed doing most of the planning of every facet of the relationship I would advise her either to have her marriage arranged or to settle for a guy who also wanted a marriage of convenience. Then I suppose they could be both be "happy" for the long term in a marriage.

 

I'm not referring to those types of relationships or marriages - I am referring to a relationship where the two people are mentally stable, and have love, passion and friendship, respect, trust and compatibility to reasonable degrees. With respect to those relationships I think it is highly unlikely that those come out of situations where the woman does most of the initiating, calling and planning in the first few months of courtship or dating.

[Weeblie]

It seems like an unfair double standard. If the guy does all the planning, initiating, calling....couldn't we assume that the woman isn't that interested? Why doesn't it work if a woman does the pursuing?

Just curious.

In my experience it hasn't worked.

[DN]

The fact is that for the last hundred years or so (since dating became the way for couples to get together) it was normal for men to do the intitiating for all sorts of societal reasons. Those reasons don't really exist any longer but the idea that men should intitiate is till current, especially among older people. But some people are challenging that idea as not only old-fashioned but limiting and unhelpful.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I know of no (and have never known of any) long term happy healthy relationships where the woman did most of the asking, initiating and planning for the first few months (or even less than that). And I know many people shy and otherwise and of many people, shy and otherwise. That's just my perspective from the hundreds of people I know and know of in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond. I know of a few examples of happy long term relationships where the woman made the first move but typically she just beat him to the punch.

 

And because you, as one person of the 6 billion people on this planet, haven't seen it happen, it must not be possible. That's a pretty inflexible approach to the world, you limit yourself by your lack of imagination. The asker/planner having internal sex organs doesn't dictate the outcome of the relationship.

[Don_Eduardo]

And because you, as one person of the 6 billion people on this planet, haven't seen it happen, it must not be possible. That's a pretty small minded approach to the world, you limit yourself by your lack of imagination. The asker/planner having internal sex organs doesn't dictate the outcome of the relationship.

 

Well put. Just because something is the way it is does not necessarily mean that that something HAS to be the way it is. Many social structures/practices have an inherent status-quo of power that maintains and sustains them; which group benefits the most, power-wise, when considering gender of initiatior of dating relationships? The gender imbalance that we find in contemporary society has vested interests; thus, the 'traditional' idea that the man initiate courtship precedings is nothing but a negative reinforcement device that keeps those who stand to lose in power.

 

Fight the system. Conformity = self. Imagination = selflessness.

[Batya33]

It seems like an unfair double standard. If the guy does all the planning, initiating, calling....couldn't we assume that the woman isn't that interested? Why doesn't it work if a woman does the pursuing?

Just curious.

In my experience it hasn't worked.

 

I am against the man doing all of the planning initiating and calling. I am in favor of the man doing most of that in the initial stages of dating - the first few months. The woman, in turn, should do some of that and make sure she expresses her appreciation in a sincere, warm way, be a good listener and make sure she shows her interest. There are many ways to show interest. I always say in my posts on this and related topics that the man should do "most" of the planning - I would never say or think "all."

 

As far as whether it's a double standard - it sure could be - I am all for it being changed but I am not interested in being the one to act as if it must change or has changed because I am not willing to continue to ask out men as it is ineffective (they are flattered, but typically in my experience and hundreds of vicarious experiences the woman they really want to be with long term is the one where they follow the more traditional role).