Should I give closure to a narcissist ex?wnt

[James90]

Well guys, I'm back...

I'm a 34 year old male who believes I have experienced emotional abuse and trauma bonded with someone. 

So I consider myself to be an empath who was with what I believe to be a malignant and covert narcissist female. 
It's important to point out she is highly intelligent and very good at analysing everything, including people. She works in accounting and is highly ambitious and hard working. For example, she told me my eyes move back and forth when I've had too much caffeine. Not something I've noticed or anyone else has ever told me. She also told me she was interested in psychology. Even sharing a body language book with me she liked. 

She was 12 years younger than me and claimed she had been sexually and physically abused by her father. 
I am trusting and have characteristics of protector, helper/ hero, integrity, loving. So I was a prime target as I wanted to 'save her'.

During the dating phase we would go on a couple of dates which would go well and then she would say something to make me jealous, use hot and cold treatment and then disappear and discard me. This happened twice before we tried a 3rd time and ended up in a relationship after a few more dates. This happens over the course of a year. With a few months give or take between these periods of dates.

She told me the reason she pulled away was because she was afraid of getting hurt. 

She used love bombing and sex bombing. Professing that 'no one has ever made me feel this way before' and asked me to promise that I would never hurt her, as she did not want to be hurt again. Of course I promise and she seemed lovely. 
She even sent me a video of her crying telling me how when she's with me all the pain goes away and she feels safe and that she really appreciates me and what I do for her. She told me separately that my kindness and caring nature is one of my best qualities. I realised now that this was done to lure me in. Using my need to love and be loved.
At the time, I I opened up to her a lot. I noticed she had a keen interest whenever I revealed an insecurity I had. The honey moon period 
was short-lived. She pulled away out the blue, without explanation and her attitude changed. 

She only wanted to see me once every 2 weeks and said it was because of studies.
There was also a repeat of hot and cold behaviour. I slowly recognised that she was trying to gain and wanted power and control over me. Again using my need for love, intimacy and sex. She would even joke about it at times. Saying 'you love it.' She would call me her *** and all sorts. She also teased me about my insecurities but it was always very subtle but fairly constant. A lot of emasculating comments. Essentially making me feel like I was not good enough in every element of my life.

Eventually I called her out on her hot and cold behaviour but she would just deny it again and again and use manipulation such as deflecting  etc. And again she would say it's because she's afraid of her feelings and that she's just overthinks things and is worried that I might hurt her. 

I would reassure her and say I would never hurt you. I noticed the more I gave and the more I tried, the more love and support and understanding of her boundaries I gave without considering my own needs, the more she would pull away. As if as soon as she she knew she had me and I was compliant, she was fine. She would then just give me bread crumbs and continue to belittle me. If I felt crap and pulled away, she  would again lure me back in acting kind and loving for a bit. But it was always short lived. 

I ended up being made redundant and one thing that stood out was how unsupportive she was.
She also played on my fears of abandonment because I worried  she might leave me because I had lost my job. I stupidly told her this. 

After a while I started to experience cognitive dissonance, poor memory, confusion, low self esteem and could not understand why.
No matter how hard I tried I could not fix the relationship or be worthy.

Towards the end she suggested that I could take a credit card out in her name. When I mentioned I was getting a mortgage and was concerned about my credit score. I thought that was weird as I was aware this is illegal. She mentioned this over the phone, so there was never any evidence. In reality this was pretty scary but I still brushed it aside. Thankfully I was smart enough to know I should never do that.

The final time I saw her in person. She removed sex and said she would be happy only seeing me once per month. All the while trying to make me jealous saying Keanu Reaves is so hot and then putting one of his movies while we watched tv in bed. All the while showing me no intimacy not even a hug, after not seeing her for 2 weeks. 

When I called it out and said it's not working. She cried and said things will change. And seemed remorseful for a bit, acting like she would do what she could. And as if like a miracle, all of a sudden she wanted to have sex with me and told me she loved me. But again once I reassured her we were still going to stay together and make it work, after about a week...it stopped. Back to the cold behaviour.

All of this evidence that I brushed aside and didn't want to believe built up and I got to a point where I had had enough. I was experiencing cognitive dissonance and had massive brain fog. The relationship was falling apart and it had only been 5 months. I knew relationships were not supposed to be like this.

So I decided to dump her. This is where she used blame shifting, tried to make me feel guilty, projected, hoovered, love bombed, acted the victim and again said 'I thought you would never hurt me', 'sorry I wasn't able to change'. She took 0 accountability. 

Part of me wanted to give her closure instead of just blocking her. She said there is nothing she could do but blame and punish herself because I didn't tell her why. Other than me saying  'your behaviour' as other than that I stone walled her to avoid further manipulation.

It's important to mention this person really like horror movies, had horror tattoos all over and told me she would take pleasure in murdering and torturing people. So yeah I'm slightly concerned she may be dangerous.

Im fully aware this person would not reciprocate and has no empathy, and that I'm still probably experiencing trauma-bonding. But after blocking her so soon. Should I give her closure before blocking her again for my own safety in terms of revenge from her? Or am I just opening up the door and giving her more information that she can use? 

[Jaunty]

All of your analysis and pop-psych speak is off-putting, I'm sorry to say.  

How about this:

You had a fling with someone which turned out to be an unhealthy situation for you, so you terminated it.

That is the short version, and you did the right thing.  

All of your opinions about her diagnoses, personality disorders, taste in tattoos and movies are really not pertinent.  It's just not a good situation for you.  

The last thing you need to do is to open up communication with her again.  Please don't.  Just move on.

[James90]

15 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

All of your analysis and pop-psych speak is off-putting, I'm sorry to say.  

How about this:

You had a fling with someone which turned out to be an unhealthy situation for you, so you terminated it.

That is the short version, and you did the right thing.  

All of your opinions about her diagnoses, personality disorders, taste in tattoos and movies are really not pertinent.  It's just not a good situation for you.  

The last thing you need to do is to open up communication with her again.  Please don't.  Just move on.

Not my intention to cause offence. This is just how I have tried to process my experience of an unhealthy relationship.

But I see your point. And you are right that the details don't matter. I just need to move on. 

Thanks for your comment.

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, James90 said:

. Should I give her closure before blocking her again for my own safety in terms of revenge from her? 

Sorry this happened. Ending the relationship is closure. Please focus on and take care of yourself and your own physical and mental health.

Perhaps she was hot and you enjoyed playing with fire for the rollercoaster thrills. But now it's time to delete and block her and all her people from ALL your social media and messaging apps.

You knew she was unstable and unhinged but you got on the crazy train anyway. Perhaps look into that tendency. Is this the same woman?

 

[bluecastle]

I agree with the above, in that you're leaning awfully hard into some highfalutin language to describe something that doesn't require the DSM to process.

In short: You got tangled up with someone who was young and hot and volatile, you pressed each other's buttons to the point where both your mainframes went on the fritz, you were eventually able to stand down to all the inner urges that drew you to her enough to pull the plug, and now you're going through some withdrawal and are considering touching the burner one more time. 

Been there. A few times. 

But as for the question at hand: No, no reason to contact, especially under the presumptive and condescending notion of "giving her closure," which (to flirt with the language of diagnostics) has in it some treacly undertones of narcissism that you may want to explore and reflect on. On the other hand, if you are craving another spin around the drama-go-round—and no judgement if that's the case—then by all means reach out. But own the instinct, rather than couching it into something she needs to mend her feathers.

After all, your desire to be a hero/helper—and to get that little high—is what got you tangled up in the first place.  

[James90]

@Wiseman2

Thank you.

And you're right, I put my hand in the fire and got burned. I know I should have known better. Lesson certainly learned.

No this is a different girl. 

[James90]

37 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

I agree with the above, in that you're leaning awfully hard into some highfalutin language to describe something that doesn't require the DSM to process.

In short: You got tangled up with someone who was young and hot and volatile, you pressed each other's buttons to the point where both your mainframes went on the fritz, you were eventually able to stand down to all the inner urges that drew you to her enough to pull the plug, and now you're going through some withdrawal and are considering touching the burner one more time. 

Been there. A few times. 

But as for the question at hand: No, no reason to contact, especially under the presumptive and condescending notion of "giving her closure," which (to flirt with the language of diagnostics) has in it some treacly undertones of narcissism that you may want to explore and reflect on. On the other hand, if you are craving another spin around the drama-go-round—and no judgement if that's the case—then by all means reach out. But own the instinct, rather than couching it into something she needs to mend her feathers.

After all, your desire to be a hero/helper—and to get that little high—is what got you tangled up in the first place.  

I have read advice that the best thing to do is cut contact.

My want to give closure is because I don't want her to be tormented wondering what my reason why is beyond, I did not like her poor behaviour. As she has told me she would blame and punish herself. 
I feel guilt and do not want to cause any further harm. Similarly I do not want to open the door back up, so feel that I should directly block her after that. It's extremely difficult for me to not be compassionate to someone who I know I have caused pain who I cared about. 

[bluecastle]

1 minute ago, James90 said:

My want to give closure is because I don't want to her to be wondering why. As she has told me she would blame ans punish herself. 

So, you still want to save her? Or is it that you think she would be wrong to blame herself? 

I'm confused, because you introduced this with a post that did put the blame squarely on her. She, the "malignant and covert narcissist" took aim at you, the "empath," deploying the jujitsu of "love bombing and sex bombing" to "lure" you in. While you did nothing but offer love and reassurance, she acted in spite, making you jealous and withholding sex and subversively emasculating you until it became too much.

While I encourage you to challenge yourself on that narrative, for your own growth, I do not think sharing it with her is going to offer closure. Just the opposite, really.

It is totally okay to miss and crave something or someone that you full-well know is not good for your health. Seems that's what's happening here, being that this is all still raw and fresh. Rather than thinking about how to alter her own feelings about things, take this time to tend to your own. 

[Starlight925]

Be honest:   You want to reach out to give her "closure" in hopes that she'll beg you to stay.

Prove me wrong.

You are addicted to this push-pull, to this pins & needles feelings of will she call, will she wait 2 weeks to call, when will she call.

There are studies linking this to the serotonin uptake caused by pinball machines.  9 out of 10 times, the player comes up empty handed and keeps throwing money in.  Why do they do it for hours upon hours, spending thousands of dollars?  For that addiction of the once an hour where a small payoff occurs.  

Figure out why you are addicted to this.  What is it from your own life, maybe your childhood, that keeps you tethered to this woman who only gives you crumbs when she feels like it?

And yes, stop with the psychological buzzwords.  You sound like you've received pallets of self-help books from Amazon.  In the end, it only matters if you can link it to your own past and stop your own harmful track of staying with these awful women.

[boltnrun]

So, it's not her fault you CHOSE to continue this unhealthy attachment. 

I too was involved with someone toxic. For four plus years. It was on him that he's a selfish, mean, manipulative jerk but it was on ME that I continued to attach myself to this toxic garbage dump for so long. I could have walked away at any time but I CHOSE to continue because I felt like crap about myself for whatever reason.

Instead of assigning her labels, it would make more sense and be more productive to figure out why you wanted this. No, it's not because you're a nice guy or empathetic or a loving person. It's a sign of unhealthiness to want to be in a situation like you described. It's important to find out what is unhealthy about yourself so you don't do this to yourself ever again. 

As for allegedly wanting to "give her closure", nope, that's for YOU, not her. She survived before you two hooked up and she will survive now. 

[James90]

15 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

Be honest:   You want to reach out to give her "closure" in hopes that she'll beg you to stay.

Prove me wrong.

You are addicted to this push-pull, to this pins & needles feelings of will she call, will she wait 2 weeks to call, when will she call.

There are studies linking this to the serotonin uptake caused by pinball machines.  9 out of 10 times, the player comes up empty handed and keeps throwing money in.  Why do they do it for hours upon hours, spending thousands of dollars?  For that addiction of the once an hour where a small payoff occurs.  

Figure out why you are addicted to this.  What is it from your own life, maybe your childhood, that keeps you tethered to this woman who only gives you crumbs when she feels like it?

And yes, stop with the psychological buzzwords.  You sound like you've received pallets of self-help books from Amazon.  In the end, it only matters if you can link it to your own past and stop your own harmful track of staying with these awful women.

Yeah you're right that I'm addicted to an element of this and I need to work on this.  
 

But I wanted to give her closure and then block her without seeing her response. 

[catfeeder]

You miss her tricks enough to trick yourself under the guise of 'helping' her?

This is someone who tried to con you out of a credit card. Why go back for more?

[James90]

I see what you're all saying and it does make sense.

Should I not be getting into relationships at this stage?

Is my addictive behaviour inadvertently causing damage to others without me realising? Because I don't see it? I recognise its self sabotaging. It makes absolute sense.
 

How do I work on this if this is true?

It would be quite hard for me to accept that I'm not the good person I thought I might be, if that's what you're suggesting?

[James90]

I'm really sorry guys, I feel incredibly ashamed.

[catfeeder]

13 minutes ago, James90 said:

Should I not be getting into relationships? 
How do I work on this if this is true?

It would be quite hard for me to accept that I'm not a good person I thought I might be,  if that's what you're suggesting.

We are strangers on the Internet. We have no idea whether you're a good person or not. We can only suggest that a healthy person would not stick around to put up with the mistreatment you described, much less be interested in pursuing more contact with such a person for ANY reason.

Since you are clearly interested in psychology, why not hire a professional to help you learn more about your motivations and how to work through those?

[boltnrun]

My toxic ex is doing just fine without me. It's been 15 years since the split and I have felt zero desire to reach out to "give him closure" or any other excuse I could come up with.

You aren't wanting to contact her for her benefit but rather for yours, because you miss the extreme emotions interacting with her caused you to feel. Even though more than half the time you were upset and in turmoil. You miss the drug called "Her".

Be honest with yourself. Being addicted to drama isn't illegal although it's unhealthy as hell. But if you want another hit of that drug you certainly can do so. Just be honest with yourself about what you're doing and why. 

I hope you choose to address this unhealthy addiction by resolving it rather than feeding it. 

[Coily]

22 minutes ago, James90 said:

I'm really sorry guys, I feel incredibly ashamed.

Don't be.

This is a lot to sort out. Expressing what you are thinking about this is a big step into getting this woman out of your life for good. This was a match that was made in hades it would seem. it's going to take a bit to unravel all of what is bouncing in your head. If Pop-psych talk is how you want to vent, fine.

Ultimately you have to want to explore what drew you into this situation. Look for the things that made you stay in that deep.

[smackie9]

Psychologists say always avoid people who have a hot/cold personality. They are very insecure. They come on all hot/love bombing, then the insecurity hit them when the dopamine plateaus or takes a dive, they pull away. Sometimes they use toxic behavior or avoidance to cope. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, James90 said:

,I put my hand in the fire and got burned. I know I should have known better.  learned.No this is a different girl. 

Yikes. If this is a different one with the same craziness going on it's time to reflect why you're jumping on these rollercoasters. 

[Kwothe28]

First of all, from your story I dont think its narcissism. Narcissists give a lot on self importance. They arent insecure because in their head they are the most important people on the planet Earth. Their word opens any door and there isnt a person who can resist them. At least that is what they think about themselves. They all have inflated egos, no empathy at all(for example dont believe true narcissist would even notice your eyes moving back and forth because they wouldnt care, you are just a thing for them to play with) and they are very easy to spot once you run into one true narcissist. 

Yours just isnt that. She is just a very unstable messy individual that influenced you in a bad way. Lots of people use manipulation tactics like "love bombing" to get what they want. Dont have to have a personality disorder to do that. Same with taking no accountability. Lots of people do that.

Second of all, please dont contact her. You probably want that closure for yourself. You wont get that there. All you would get there is more drama and mess. Give yourself a closure by accepting that you made the mistake(if she doesnt have accountability doesnt mean you shouldnt) and that she wasnt what you thought she was. And by accepting its over and moving on from the whole situation.

[Starlight925]

Nothing to be ashamed about.  In fact, I'd bet many of us are on this board due to initially coming out of a fog of a horrible relationship.  🙋‍♀️

Just don't try to apply "closure so she'll beg me back" as a method.

She's a bad relationship bet, no matter how many psycho terms we want to throw at her.

Don't place the bet.

Walk away from the table. 

You still have chips left.  "Closure" would be throwing all your chips down, rolling the dice, and coming up empty.  Don't do it.

[James90]

2 hours ago, catfeeder said:

We are strangers on the Internet. We have no idea whether you're a good person or not. We can only suggest that a healthy person would not stick around to put up with the mistreatment you described, much less be interested in pursuing more contact with such a person for ANY reason.

Since you are clearly interested in psychology, why not hire a professional to help you learn more about your motivations and how to work through those

 

I'm clinically diagnosed with ADHD. I know deep down I have an addictive personality. 
 

This is genuinely disturbing that I do this and can't see this myself. 
 

Thank you for this guys. 
 

I've been spiralling, trying to find the answers and haven't recognised my own paranoia and delusions here.
 

I need some sleep! 
 

 

[boltnrun]

What treatment are you receiving for your ADHD?

[MissCanuck]

You're two chaotic people who found each other and essentially both contributed to a trainwreck of a relationship. 

You don't need to be trying so hard to apply the narrative that she followed the Narcissist Handbook. I can see where you are probably Googling too much and trying to fit all her behaviour into these various elements of narcissism, but you unless you are a mental health professional, you aren't in any position to make such a call. 

Instead, take time off and instead analyze your own unhealthy tendencies and behaviour. Don't worry about giving her closure. She'll be fine, and likely doesn't need that from you. You're over-estimating your own importance in her life, man. 

 

[James90]

Yeah you guys are right 

Im sick

Just wish I knew you why

ive called her out on things that I'm doing myself

ive projected and blame shifted and not taken accountability and reacted like an injured animal because I haven't been able to get my fix.

i take Ritalin for my ADHD

theres an element of hurting myself here/ self sabotaging.

I don't know if I'm a bad person or not. I do hope she's ok. But I don't feel like I'm aware of what I'm doing. But it is selfish whether I want to believe it or not.