Communication Quandry

[waffle]

4 hours ago, Coily said:

I have been noticing an increasing trend on ENA, and that is about frequency and expectations about communications.

A by-product of dating sites.  When the mode of communication at the outset is screen-based, and many (most?) people on those sites are only looking for attention anyway, there's really no way to get around it.

[Batya33]

First -I really like so much how Coily described all of this.  Second I was a cell phone hold out but had a BlackBerry for work -email only -starting in 2006.  Got my cell after marriage and because I was in my 8th month lol.  We got smartphones in 2015.  I did do some AOL instant messaging when I was dating and some email but no texting.  Thank Goodness.

A few examples of where I think this goes off the deep end these days:

Years ago when we had the George Floyd tragedy in Minnesota (I don't live there) I remember my friend in her 30s feeling "awful" because she had not yet made a post about her feelings about the horrific video of his death.  She said "it's my platform" and she was so worried her "silence" was wrong.  I was - baffled. She was just a random person who wasn't a political figure or a celebrity - platform?? Feeling pressured to express her feelings about this on Facebook? Why? Why did that matter at all - what would have been the issue with expressing her feelings to - a trusted friend or friends or family? In person/email whatever? I get that this isn't text but I feel like it's related -what is this overwhelming need to post publicly and feel pressured not to be "silent??" It's a "platform?"  

The risks of texts being misinterpreted -so much riskier than a phone call or F2F.  Ranging from taking offense to - this happened to me -clear texts from family inviting my son and me to visit - to hang out at their house all weekend (but we were staying at a hotel) - and that was the reason we made the plane trip.  Days before -oops no you can't -we only have one of your 3 days available. 

Well -we had to cancel - there was no way for us to get around and one out of 3 days wasn't worth it.  The problem was she said she didn't "understand" why I thought that.  Why? Because it was literally written in texts.  Felt like twilight zone.  Also - I bet if we'd actually "talked" she wouldn't have backpedaled (she loves us but she realized she didn't want all those people at her house that particular weekend after we bought our tickets).

I put huge restrictions on instant messaging when I dated - I refused -with one exeption/one particular guy - to do that before we met -once or twice ok to make or confirm a plan.  But I knew that was irrelevant to getting to know him for dating purposes and I still strongly believe th constant texting takes away from getting to know a person over time unwrapping layers slowly, being surprised. If you already know the person's daily routine, their subway sandwich preferences, which friends they meet for yoga or pickleball or crocheting - what's there to discover and wow that risk of that false intimacy thing.

When I dated -you met - after the date the guy usually would call the woman within a couple days to set up another date. One phone call maybe in between -sometimes a quick hi -sometimes to confirm.  Once you were steady and getting serious then you saw each other more often and likely spoke 2-3 times a week depending on the week and often daily if you were very serious -on the days you didn't see each other.  My husband and I were long distance on and off so we had a nightly phone call that was so fun and also relaxing - anywhere between 20-40 minutes before bed.  Not hours.  There was no constant checking in either. I liked it that way.

I silence the few group texts I am on -it's sensory overload otherwise.

Coily -thanks again.

[Coily]

2 hours ago, waffle said:

A by-product of dating sites.  When the mode of communication at the outset is screen-based, and many (most?) people on those sites are only looking for attention anyway, there's really no way to get around it.

The question I would then pose is this: Is this a healthy outgrowth of online dating or is it something that must be curtailed beyond the introductory stages? I have no answers, and you have given it considerably more thought than I.

[Cherylyn]

I agree.  Unless words are worded just right via electronic communication,  it call be horribly misconstrued,  twisted,  misunderstood,  distorted and become unnecessarily heated and emotional.  Something gets lost in translation and texts or emails can easily become argumentative,  highly charged and angry. 😡  Communication can easily end up with a lot of resentment,  bitterness and unforgiving,  permanent  animosity.   This has been my experience.  ☹️

I'll chime in with others,  in person is best and if not in person,  at least a live phone chat so there is back 'n forth voices and dialogue. 

Nowadays,  I limit texts or emails to BRIEF, superficial info such as appointments,  agreed upon scheduled socializing dates,  times or something superficial and light.  Nothing more.  Everything else is a phone chat or in person. 

I've noticed that with a live phone chat or in person conversation,  people tend to have more self control whereas electronic communication is perceived as blunt,  terse and frosty.   The less electronic words,  the better.  If electronic,  word it very BRIEFLY and graciously otherwise be prepared for any type of backlash which is undeserved.  No one wants to be left feeling defensive.

[mylolita]

9 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

I also believe that all this digital interaction has led to almost epidemic proportions of young people world wide living with "social anxiety" and living in their bedrooms too afraid to actually meet someone face-to-face, and when they do, are unable to actually have a great conversation.  They can communicate and have long "conversations" by text all day long, but once it's in real life, they clam up and forget how to speak.  No wonder dating is so stressful.

Very interesting and true observation Capricorn!!!

 

I think anyone 30 and under is especially struggling with this. We don my understand what it was like to never know a world without scrolling, text, tick what! Facebook, WhatsApp, dating apps… the generations below are growing up online, in a new digital era and it’s not making anyone any happier, even the people who make money off of (insta influencers, YouTube content creators, arguably OnlyFans, etc) all of them, when honest, report a feeling of “being a slave” to it, urges to post, pressure to post, constantly checking their phones and being shackled to the things.

 

x

[mylolita]

7 hours ago, Coily said:

The question I would then pose is this: Is this a healthy outgrowth of online dating or is it something that must be curtailed beyond the introductory stages? I have no answers, and you have given it considerably more thought than I.

I think it is all very “safe”.

 

Life is risk and pain - that’s how you get anything worth while or achieve anything. I think people are fooled that they can cheat the system, be sat comfortably at home eating Doritos and with a months worth of text chit chat, woo the guy or the gal. I don’t believe this can realistically work for most people.

 

If anything seems too good to be true, too easy (like just pay this dating site an amount and set up a little 20 min profile and watch em’ roll in) it’s never going to be a good and honest thing. 
 

Whenever you think you can get something for nothing, think again! 
 

Men have to venture out, take the risk and take the hit; and women have to make themselves vulnerable sometimes, to be courted. If both sexes stay huddled up indoors and won’t get themselves moving and taking those leaps, I doubt much happens! The loneliness and the why why why questions swoop in.

 

Environments will always change around humans, this has been happening at a break neck pace starting probably at the Industrial Revolution when technology started to become a bigger part of life.

 

Survival is about adaptation. You either roll with the punches, see it for what it is and work it to your best advantage anyway, or try and change it, or do nothing. 
 

x

[mylolita]

9 hours ago, Seraphim said:

This anxiety which has gripped society comes from the fact we have a zero downtime. The human body and mind was never meant for the onslaught of information and stimulus 24/7. It NEEDS downtime for the body and mind to reset and it isn’t getting it now from toddlerhood on up so humans are now an anxiety riddled basket cases. 

This is very true Seraphim! 
 

I watched a documentary on one of the last untouched tribes. They noticed some unusual things that have been social and cultural patterns found in most tribes.

 

It is: the men go out hunting for a few hours, and leave the women to the children. But then the men come back, and are about the rest of the day socialising, relaxing, smoking(!) while the women cook and the children play.

 

They stay up late and party! Dance, find joy in life. This dancing is where the young men court the women. Basically, the jungle version of the club!!!
 

They only catch what they need for that day only, there is no storing or thinking about tomorrow. Women scout berries that supplement the meat if it isn’t caught that day. 
 

Women have the children with them all day. If they need to do something, the children either follow or if they are young, are carried on their backs and breastfed while moving. Most tribal women had one baby on her front and an older one on her back. All children had many many siblings to play with all day. They were not babied, and most two year olds were running around with machete knives and the boys would go out on hunting trips to learn from their fathers and other men, the girls stayed back and learnt from their mothers. 
 

Even in mud huts the women would sweep them out, clean and wash cooking pots, and refresh the fire, which was kept on for most of the day and night.
 

They also wake up fairly early, do very social things in the morning like air grievances to get them out of the way for the rest of the day. The whole day is extremely social, and joyous! And they have intense bursts of exercise in hunting, gathering and dancing all night, but the rest is sitting and napping and talking! 
 

x

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

I also believe that all this digital interaction has led to almost epidemic proportions of young people world wide living with "social anxiety" and living in their bedrooms too afraid to actually meet someone face-to-face, 

Agree. I almost feel like a broken record when I tell people my advice:. "Texting is not dating". 

[boltnrun]

The younger generation doesn't see it this way, however. They all seem to think texting=relationship and if someone doesn't text them for a day or two it's a disaster on the level of a nuclear war. Or if their partner takes three hours to reply to their texts the world is ending. 

Also consider the number of threads written by people who lament their "girlfriend" or "boyfriend" seems to be losing interest. They call their relationship an "LDR", but hey, turns out they have never actually met in person. 

I guess this is the way things are going to be for the foreseeable future. 

[mylolita]

6 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

The younger generation doesn't see it this way, however. They all seem to think texting=relationship and if someone doesn't text them for a day or two it's a disaster on the level of a nuclear war. Or if their partner takes three hours to reply to their texts the world is ending. 

Also consider the number of threads written by people who lament their "girlfriend" or "boyfriend" seems to be losing interest. They call their relationship an "LDR", but hey, turns out they have never actually met in person. 

I guess this is the way things are going to be for the foreseeable future. 

Agree!!!!!
 

Also agree Bolt massively about the phones in general AND at the table. HUGE pet peeve of mine! 
 

I sometimes have to remind the hubs - put it away! And he’ll be like, but I have a deal on! And I say, this is half an hour with the kids here. Unless you’re Trump running a billion dollar empire, you got half an hour. 
 

I had an argument with him once and threw it down the stairs.

 

Can’t stand it! I’ve invited people out to drinks before and they’ve checked their phones a few times when I’ve been talking to them and I don’t invite them out anymore. I have strong feelings about it but it’s just so bloomin’ disrespectful and the brain cells are going each time.

 

x

[Batya33]

11 hours ago, Coily said:

The question I would then pose is this: Is this a healthy outgrowth of online dating or is it something that must be curtailed beyond the introductory stages? I have no answers, and you have given it considerably more thought than I.

I don't think it's about online dating -I mean to me it's just part of all dating among the younger set says the old married lady.  (I am so glad I have a boy child - I feel like the girls his age text a lot more than he does with his friends -and do all of those risky group chats -risky like 'mean girl" stuff  -my son texts with certain close friends but casually -not all day at all - and he chats on line with the video games but - looks totally harmless -he checks in with us regularly if something seems off -and he won't do the group chats his classmates sometimes invite him to).  Am I being sexist -just even when my sister and I were teens we were on the phone alllll the time even if we just saw our girlfriends at school -parents got us our own landline - boys didn't seem to do or need that.

I do think it's related -it's that "need" to be in constant contact -because you can be.  To me- just because you "can be" -doesn't at all mean you should! Less is more! I've met online penpals in person -including one from here many years ago (she is a lovely person and I even treated her to ice cream in her city we were visiting).  I met finally an online penpal who lived 20 minutes away -started up during pandemic - we were in the same FB group -same age.  We - texted some (she hated texting) and we'd have a phone call about every week and didn't meet mostly because of lockdown.  We finally met last spring.  In person was lovely.  We plan on meeting again.  Here's what I will say -she did text with me more than I thought she would but our catch up phone calls were a million times more meaningful.  Even if what we talked about was random -it's the quality of the connection. 

To me texting might seem like connecting but there's no way it equals a phone call unless it's a well placed text - I had a long catch up with my sister yesterday by phone.  After I sent her a really funny comment about our convo and she sent me photos and video of her visit with our mom.  That was totally meaningful because (1) we're already so close; (2) we'd just connected by phone -we live a far distance; and (3) what we texted was perfect for texting -quickie hilarious joke and photos.

Ok fine it's "my opinion" but I see this over and over again and again it's why I like the discussion Coily opened here and how he approaches it.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, mylolita said:

Also agree Bolt massively about the phones in general AND at the table. HUGE pet peeve of mine! 
 

I sometimes have to remind the hubs - put it away! And he’ll be like, but I have a deal on! And I say, this is half an hour with the kids here. Unless you’re Trump running a billion dollar empire, you got half an hour. 

I HEAR YOU.  I could not agree more.

Preaching to the choir but here's what I do -listen up everyone - I started this many years ago - if my husband wants to talk to me and it's more than "got milk??"" I literally put my phone down or look completely away from it or my device.  I will even turn my body to him.  If I have to multitask I will say "I'm listening" (meaning washing dishes -not a device thing).  And he is chill about any of this -I do this -for me and for us -I want him to know -you have my full attention.  By contrast if I cannot give him full attention because of a device and it's not urgent I don't "multitask" -I tell him - I have to respond to this text/email but I can listen a little or we can talk later. Why? It's respectful and thoughtful and I think the person feels listened to and cared for.

Table stuff - it depends -when we travel and eat at like a fast food we'll all be on phones, we let our son be on his phone -but no -not with others like friends/family (yes when our son was younger and got bored from adult convo he could be on a device like olive garden had those gaming ipads!).  When I am with a friend I'm transparent -I will say "I have to have my phone out in case the school calls" - and I do not look at it! Why do people think this is OK. I say it's not, not ever.

[mylolita]

@Batya33!

 

I like your way of communicating! 
 

I will say the difference is, our kids don’t have iPads or phones and when we sit at the table at home or see friends or eat out; they will never be on one!

 

Recently, me and the hubs took our kids to a lovely Italian restaurant, just a family thing. Looked around. 4:30pm, lots of tables full of kids - they were ALL on devices. I have never felt so depressed. My son even asked me, “Why are they looking at them?” They had the colouring pens and were drawing on their napkins. 
 

When I was a kid, and my mum and dad had friends over and entertained a lot, we either asked to be excused from the table, or most times, sat and listened to the conversation. It’s important for kids, they pick up a lot, socially. I don’t agree with screens out for entertainment or because they somehow can’t handle talking with adults. I did this from about 6 years old and my parents always say how their friends always asked if me and my sister would be there! Never even had a colouring book, looking back. 
 

I’m so anti it all. I hate the fact they use screens at school and videos all the time for “teaching”. What happened to visiting places, the chalk board and some simple paper books?! 
 

My son, when it rains, they get the option to go and do “computer work” and he chooses to drawer. There is another girl who also drawers and crafts, her father is an artist. I always craft with them at home. I don’t think he’s missing out now playing video games and the like. Me and my husband are both in agreement - no video games. He’ll start surf school in the next few years, and plays football every Saturday morning. I’m not gonna have him in front of screens, we are pretty adamant! 
 

I had the best time when I did away with my smart phone for 4 months. I kinda wish my husband hadn’t surprised me with another iPhone. He’s gadget orientated so thought I would appreciate it, but the point of me switching to a flip phone text call only was to get away from the internet which, I admit like anyone else; am totally ADDICTED TOO! 
 

x

[Seraphim]

5 hours ago, mylolita said:

Very interesting and true observation Capricorn!!!

 

I think anyone 30 and under is especially struggling with this. We don my understand what it was like to never know a world without scrolling, text, tick what! Facebook, WhatsApp, dating apps… the generations below are growing up online, in a new digital era and it’s not making anyone any happier, even the people who make money off of (insta influencers, YouTube content creators, arguably OnlyFans, etc) all of them, when honest, report a feeling of “being a slave” to it, urges to post, pressure to post, constantly checking their phones and being shackled to the things.

 

x

Since I got a smart phone I have discovered I have the attention span of a gerbil. 😑Something that never existed before that. It has made people needy, anxious, seeking instant gratification and no attention span. 

[Batya33]

I need my smartphone for work at times and for school stuff appointments etc. I’m totally good with kids being on devices at restaurants. Whatever works for the family. I’m not a fan of taking kids to fancy restaurants for long meals. If it’s a family or friends gathering at a private home no device. That’s off topic though other than our son is very good at understanding different rules for different places. When it’s ok to be ok device and when it’s not. Not all kids are and some I’m sure are even better than him lol. I’m not a fan of kids being allowed to roam around restaurants especially coffee places - I anticipate the - heaven forbid - burns from spilled coffee etc. I hate dodging toddlers if I’m carrying hot stuff. Again off topic other than better to give device for survival and safety. But it depends as we don’t want to raise device addicts either. Our son is not addicted despite the years  of virtual school - grades 5-7 or thereabouts. Horrible. 
it’s up to parents to be good role models and tell their teenagers if needed about etiquette.  

[mylolita]

Off topic but I find it so depressing in restaurants! 
 

I mentioned it to the owner and he rolled his eyes and said he’d thought about banning them and asking people to put them away, it had gotten that bad.

 

We know someone, an Italian, who owns an Italian run restaurant, and he’s actually banned them. It’s a family orientated restaurant and, if you know Italian tradition, you know how big they are on large, family, evening meals. I thought it was a bold move but it’s gorgeous to go in and see everyone talking and the kids laughing and joking amongst themselves! Not running around everywhere like wild animals because, well, like our kids they are used to sitting down for a 40 minute meal on an evening so it’s nothing new! 

 

I’m not saying my kids never do anything wrong, far from it, but they can sit at a table for an hour altogether. If my 2 and 4 year old get antsy I’ll whip out a colouring book but, we’re talking to them and joking so they don’t need screen entertainment! I wanna spend time with them! How can a family spend time with their children when they looking down at phones or tablets? I find it so sad, personally.

 

My friend who is another Mum, she is a single mum and has one boy, 4. He goes to his Dad’s and watches endless tv until 9pm, and his Dad bought him a tablet. So now he cries and is addicted to it and says he “needs” it and wants to get to his Dads so he can watch Kids YouTube or whatever it is! So now she’s bought him his own for at hers. He’s at nursery all day, so that only leaves morning and evening; and she doesn’t see him every other weekend. So the rest is by the sounds of it spent on a screen. How is this any good for a 4 year old or any kid, I simply can’t agree.

 

Hopefully me and my husband can steer our kids away from this cultural umbilical cord for devices! I hope he can go out and play on the football team, surf; and go to the arcades and the beach here. And no way is he getting a tv in his room! By God he’s going to hate me 🥲🤣

 

Apologies the whole of society - modern life doesn’t do much for me and I even irritate myself being on here frankly! It’s my only internet vice but I’d much like to shake it! 
 

Dating apps and sites and all the screen stuff - I actually think the act of looking down and the blue light; I think that alone depresses the system, makes you feel quite off and unwell, if used too much. 
 

x

[waffle]

18 hours ago, Coily said:

The question I would then pose is this: Is this a healthy outgrowth of online dating or is it something that must be curtailed beyond the introductory stages? I have no answers, and you have given it considerably more thought than I.

I would say neither.  I think it's an inevitable result of being online on dating sites where the mode of communication is email/messaging.  Couple that with people who, as I said, are more concerned with getting attention than they are dating, and digital mode(s) of communication become ultra-important because it's how they gauge their own desirability.

I had sort of hoped that with communication being typed out instead of spoken, that peoples' spelling would become better.  For example, people would pay more attention to what they're writing and take care to use the correct forms of to, too and two, or your and you're, etc.  I didn't find that to be true during my brief stint on dating sites, much to my chagrin.

[Batya33]

Also many times people want texts for the security blanket reason not because they really care to know more about the person. 

[boltnrun]

10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Also many times people want texts for the security blanket reason not because they really care to know more about the person. 

I know of someone (think she used to post on here, in fact) who had been having issues in her relationship. They were somewhat long distance and he was inconsistent about communication, so she decided to end it. A few days later he texted her "Hey" and lo, presto! She got back together with him. Because he texted her "Hey". 

Yikes. 

[Coily]

20 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Also many times people want texts for the security blanket reason not because they really care to know more about the person. 

This is a fantastic point, which lets be honest there are so many threads that start from that security blanket being removed. 

[Wiseman2]

OMG! He ghosted me! I haven't heard from him in 2 entire hours and I know he's online because I checked. Is he a narcissist?  Is he cheating?

Welcome to dating in the digital age. 

[mylolita]

18 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

OMG! He ghosted me! I haven't heard from him in 2 entire hours and I know he's online because I checked. Is he a narcissist?  Is he cheating?

Welcome to dating in the digital age. 

Bleak! 

[Cherylyn]

Whatever other people do is fine with me.  However,  regarding electronic communication,  whenever we're dining at home or away,  whether it's just my husband and me or with our sons,  no cell phones.  They can have their nose in their phones on their own time but not during meals,  when we're supposed to have eye contact and engage in a conversation.  Same with dining indoors or out with friends,  relatives and in-laws.  It's refreshing to be old school or "old fashioned" by actually giving each other undivided attention and common courtesy.  Getting a break from being tethered to our phones is much needed relief.  ☺️

[waffle]

My xH in the final years we were married had a phone (we're talking flip phones at this point) but refused to text at all even when it really could have been beneficial.  I would sometimes ask "why didn't you text/call me when such and such happened?" and he would say "I don't know your number."  I would try to give it to him and he didn't' want it.  He would also always keep his phone off so I couldn't' reach him.  But he was anti-communication in general so this was no big surprise.

[Wiseman2]

"Left me on read" is now a relationship status?. 🤷