Long-distance guy - update

[kim42]

6 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Less than a month ago, September 27, you wrote:

What happened to trigger such a turnaround?

As I mentioned in my update from Sunday, he would message me here and there, and we started to communicate more regularly, send each other random pictures and then I learned about my business trip, so I asked him if he wants to catch up.

I also talked to my therapist and it helped me to realize some things.

 

[Batya33]

32 minutes ago, kim42 said:

Batya, I respect that you have a different opinion, that's ok, I don't expect everyone on this forum to understand me, and I think I've already explained myself regarding this subject.

Yes you have --- and at times in this thread you've expressed it a number of different ways which gave me (and others it seems) pause.  That's great that you spoke with your therapist about this!

[rainbowsandroses]

40 minutes ago, kim42 said:

Batya, I respect that you have a different opinion, that's ok, I don't expect everyone on this forum to understand me, and I think I've already explained myself regarding this subject.

@kim42you're doing great, stay on your own path. 

IMO, change is good especially when prior to, the path you were on was unhealthy and led to disappointment.

Not sure how and when this became about getting attached to unavailable men and one's goal being marriage and how that makes any difference here, in your situation.

This isn't about getting attached to any particular man, available or unavailable, again it's about not getting attached to a particular outcome with said man 

There's a difference which I understand and believe you do as well.  

I know plenty of couples who take things one day at a time, placing little value on what happens "tomorrow" (i.e.detached from the outcome) some of whom have been happily married for years!.

In fact, more happy than couples who don't have this attitude!

There an easiness, a free-spiritedness to having that mindset, that can keep the attraction and spark alive and put less pressure on the relationship and each other and where things will be tomorrow

Kim, if you DO end up connecting with him and begin dating, my advice is enjoy and cherish each precious moment. Let it all happen gradually, naturally and organically.

No pushing, no forcing, not that you would but I have found when someone is anxious and overly attached to a particular outcome, that's what they typically do which ends up working against them not for them. 😀

 

 

 

[Batya33]

19 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I know plenty of couples who take things one day at a time, placing little value on what happens "tomorrow" (i.e.detached from the outcome) some of whom have been happily married for years!.

I love this mindset and I follow it in many ways in my marriage! Kim is not dating this person and she is not in a committed relationship with him.  Committed couples have the security and foundation and connection of their commitment and in marriage it's also legal -so one day at a time/not overly focusing on tomorrow is very often done with that core commitment as the foundation.  So far Kim has asked this friend to meet and catch up at some point when she visits his city. He has agreed.

So the whole live in the moment/be free spirited is from a very different context than with an established married/committed couple IMO. And her partner -whether him or whoever -would have to be into that too -maybe Kim will learn that in general she only wants to live in the moment and be detached from outcomes and be free spirited -which will help her narrow down who she chooses to date! 

That might be a future path - this doesn't seem like any sort of "path" - just a choice to see this person again and see if she can enjoy herself more and be less anxious about the outcome.  I hope they can meet up and have fun and it works out as she wishes!

What I do suggest as far as detachment -until you have a time/place plan to meet up don't expect it to happen -that also would be a great way to manage expectations particularly given his past behavior in not following up to see you again.

[rainbowsandroses]

59 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So far Kim has asked this friend to meet and catch up at some point when she visits his city. 

So the whole live in the moment/be free spirited is from a very different context than with an established married/committed couple IMO. 

I don't believe it is different.  Living in the moment/being detached from a particular outcome extends to everything - not just committed relationships.

It's a general mindset, one doesn't pick and choose when and where to apply it.

Like even now, @kim42you can apply it, before you meet up with him.  Meaning be prepared for anything to happen including NOT meeting him. 

Lower that expectation, detach from the outcome, and you won't be disappointed if it doesn't happen.  Or less disappointed.  You will feel less anxious about it as well. 

You can look forward to seeing him and even be excited about it, while still realizing it may not pan out and KNOWING you will be OK no matter what happens.

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

If you DO end up connecting with him and begin dating, my advice is enjoy and cherish each precious moment. Let it all happen gradually, naturally and organically.

 

[kim42]

19 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@kim42you're doing great, stay on your own path. 

IMO, change is good especially when prior to, the path you were on was unhealthy and led to disappointment.

Not sure how and when this became about getting attached to unavailable men and one's goal being marriage and how that makes any difference here, in your situation.

This isn't about getting attached to any particular man, available or unavailable, again it's about not getting attached to a particular outcome with said man 

There's a difference which I understand and believe you do as well.  

I know plenty of couples who take things one day at a time, placing little value on what happens "tomorrow" (i.e.detached from the outcome) some of whom have been happily married for years!.

In fact, more happy than couples who don't have this attitude!

There an easiness, a free-spiritedness to having that mindset, that can keep the attraction and spark alive and put less pressure on the relationship and each other and where things will be tomorrow

Kim, if you DO end up connecting with him and begin dating, my advice is enjoy and cherish each precious moment. Let it all happen gradually, naturally and organically.

No pushing, no forcing, not that you would but I have found when someone is anxious and overly attached to a particular outcome, that's what they typically do which ends up working against them not for them. 😀

 

 

 

Thank you @rainbowsandroses, I really appreciate your advice and support! 

[Jaunty]

39 minutes ago, kim42 said:

As I mentioned in my update from Sunday, he would message me here and there, and we started to communicate more regularly, send each other random pictures and then I learned about my business trip, so I asked him if he wants to catch up.

I also talked to my therapist and it helped me to realize some things.

 

You'd "stopped talking to him for a reason" 2.5 weeks ago, which evidently changed immediately after you typed that.

This is why I said your "reasoning" is disingenuous.   

You've changed the narrative, and you have developed a whole new script, but nothing has changed.

It's not new around here - the general theme is the same as so many threads:   Met someone, really really really into them, they are not acting reciprocal,  feelings hurt, but soon reaching out again because the poster is still really really really into them.  And perhaps some breadcrumbs were involved.

You think you will regret it if you don't, so you are doing the right thing for yourself, but why all the spinning?

To be clear, I am not criticizing you for reaching out more and trying again for something with this guy.  I am challenging your premise that this is not simply a continuation of the same thing you started with your first thread about him.  

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

You'd "stopped talking to him for a reason" 2.5 weeks ago, which evidently changed immediately after you typed that.

This is why I said your "reasoning" is disingenuous.   

You've changed the narrative, and you have developed a whole new script, but nothing has changed.

It's not new around here - the general theme is the same as so many threads:   Met someone, really really really into them, they are not acting reciprocal,  feelings hurt, but soon reaching out again because the poster is still really really really into them.  And perhaps some breadcrumbs were involved.

You think you will regret it if you don't, so you are doing the right thing for yourself, but why all the spinning?

To be clear, I am not criticizing you for reaching out more and trying again for something with this guy.  I am challenging your premise that this is not simply a continuation of the same thing you started with your first thread about him.  

I would think the difference is she now sees it as a potential for her to learn how to detach from outcomes which she says she had great difficulty doing last time. So now she’s presented with an opportunity - because she’ll be in his city - to hang out with him and practice approaching the hang out with no expectations about the outcome and therefore she believes she will enjoy the hang out much more with no or decreased anxiety. That’s how I understand how she has differentiated her prior perspective you referenced and her current perspective. 

[Jaunty]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

So now she’s presented with an opportunity - because she’ll be in his city - to hang out with him and practice approaching the hang out with no expectations about the outcome and therefore she believes she will enjoy the hang out much more with no or decreased anxiety. 

I see.  I guess I think that's a dishonest (to oneself) proposition.

I would venture to assume that the OP went to the first meeting with this guy with believing that she had no expectations about the outcome, too.  He was just a peripheral work colleague.  But after spending some time with him on one occasion, things got very intense, complicated and probably painful internally for her, according to the thread.

Anyway, I guess it's worth more trying.  

 

[kim42]

18 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

You'd "stopped talking to him for a reason" 2.5 weeks ago, which evidently changed immediately after you typed that.

This is why I said your "reasoning" is disingenuous.   

You've changed the narrative, and you have developed a whole new script, but nothing has changed.

It's not new around here - the general theme is the same as so many threads:   Met someone, really really really into them, they are not acting reciprocal,  feelings hurt, but soon reaching out again because the poster is still really really really into them.  And perhaps some breadcrumbs were involved.

You think you will regret it if you don't, so you are doing the right thing for yourself, but why all the spinning?

To be clear, I am not criticizing you for reaching out more and trying again for something with this guy.  I am challenging your premise that this is not simply a continuation of the same thing you started with your first thread about him.  

I'm not sure what to say here, I think I've explained several times why I'm doing this, and as I said I don't expect everyone to understand it.

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

I see.  I guess I think that's a dishonest (to oneself) proposition.

I would venture to assume that the OP went to the first meeting with this guy with believing that she had no expectations about the outcome, too.  He was just a peripheral work colleague.  But after spending some time with him on one occasion, things got very intense, complicated and probably painful internally for her, according to the thread.

Anyway, I guess it's worth more trying.  

 

Oh yes I understand. But whether dishonest to herself  or not that is the difference as she has expressed it. And hopefully I shared it accurately. From my understanding she has explained she’s not trying to get him to want to date her if their hangout goes that way but rather trying to get herself to be better at interacting with men she’s attracted to so that she’s less anxious and can enjoy her time more. 

[Jaunty]

24 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I'm not sure what to say here, I think I've explained several times why I'm doing this, and as I said I don't expect everyone to understand it.

I understand exactly what you're doing.  I do wish you would address the comments that some of us have made about it rather than repeating your recent "spin."  

For example:

Why were the "reasons" you had 2.5 weeks ago for having stopped talking to him then thrown out the window immediately?  If I am guessing, I'd say that he was not reaching out to you at all (so you "stopped talking to him") but then he suddenly did reach out!  So ... now you're planning a visit.

I have read all the feedback about the easy breezy "take life as it comes" and how so many happily married couples do that,  and how fun and flirty it is to be like that, tralalala!! 

I can tell you this with 100% accuracy:  That is a personality type.   A person  either is that type or they aren't.  

If you struggle with anxiety, which you've shared that you do, pretending that you don't care about a guy that you had (and probably still have) a massive crush on is not the solution for it.

I'm not going to bug you about this any further.  And I sincerely hope you  have a great time and don't get more hurt feelings.  For the record, I do agree that you need to do this visit - though not for the same reasons that you are telling yourself.   

[kim42]

17 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

I understand exactly what you're doing.  I do wish you would address the comments that some of us have made about it rather than repeating your recent "spin."  

For example:

Why were the "reasons" you had 2.5 weeks ago for having stopped talking to him then thrown out the window immediately?  If I am guessing, I'd say that he was not reaching out to you at all (so you "stopped talking to him") but then he suddenly did reach out!  So ... now you're planning a visit.

I have read all the feedback about the easy breezy "take life as it comes" and how so many happily married couples do that,  and how fun and flirty it is to be like that, tralalala!! 

I can tell you this with 100% accuracy:  That is a personality type.   A person  either is that type or they aren't.  

If you struggle with anxiety, which you've shared that you do, pretending that you don't care about a guy that you had (and probably still have) a massive crush on is not the solution for it.

I'm not going to bug you about this any further.  And I sincerely hope you  have a great time and don't get more hurt feelings.  For the record, I do agree that you need to do this visit - though not for the same reasons that you are telling yourself.   

I decided to stop talking to him because I felt I was getting too emotionally attached, you can read my previous posts about it. I went on some dates with local men but I didn't like them.

Then  we started texting again, it was fun, then I learned about my businnes trip, I asked him if he wanted to catch up, he said yes, and I want to have low expectations this time and just se what happens.

 

That's it, it's not about me pretending that I don't care, and I don't think it's necessary to over complicate it and see this situation as something bad/negative, with no other outcome than me ending up being hurt.

 

[LootieTootie]

So I always agree with Jaunty (😆) ....but on this, I think sometimes you need to experience things multiple times to do/be better when it comes to dating.

If you're going in the mindset and being set on not having expectations, I think you can leave the situation (trip) in a healthier perspective that will benefit your mental and emotional growth. In fact, I think you should have had low or no expectations from the first time you both met up any way.

From reading your posts, when you meet someone you feel chemistry with, I think the default is to have some sort of expectations. The thing is sometimes chemistry is only happening at the moment, but it isn't strong enough for one or both the parties to think any more of it. So it's always best to manage your expectations after a date. Hard to do, but it takes practice.

Have fun (with low or none expectations)!!!

[catfeeder]

I hope you'll enjoy yourself, the guy, the place, the food--all of it.

You like a guy, and it's natural to hope that he likes you too, and you have an opportunity to go see him. Good! Take it!

Every relationship is a risk to whatever degree. You don't need to justify wanting to do this. It sounds like the most natural thing in the world to me.

[TacticalLinguine]

I don't think it's fair to consciously use this guy as some sort of an "experiment". Though I am more inclined to believe this "experiment" is merely an excuse to keep this thing going with him. 

I hope none of this will come back to bite you.

[kim42]

33 minutes ago, TacticalLinguine said:

I don't think it's fair to consciously use this guy as some sort of an "experiment". Though I am more inclined to believe this "experiment" is merely an excuse to keep this thing going with him. 

I hope none of this will come back to bite you.

I don't see how I am 'using' him in this situation, I could think of other situations when you use someone but here I didn't promise him anything and I'm not leading him on either, it's a simple catch up.

 

 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I hope you'll enjoy yourself, the guy, the place, the food--all of it.

You like a guy, and it's natural to hope that he likes you too, and you have an opportunity to go see him. Good! Take it!

Every relationship is a risk to whatever degree. You don't need to justify wanting to do this. It sounds like the most natural thing in the world to me.

Yes totally natural as long as the person is being honest with herself - her justifications as to her motives give me pause as to whether this is so (as Jaunty and others have mentioned).  However overall - I agree with you - he seems like a good guy/he's a known friend of hers plus no physical safety concerns and she says she's going to be in town anyway so it works with her schedule.

[Sindy_0311]

1 hour ago, TacticalLinguine said:

Though I am more inclined to believe this "experiment" is merely an excuse to keep this thing going with him. 

I agree... I I truly think you aren't being honest with yourself. I say it with respect and surely not to offend you... And if really it is about the experiment, let me tell you this: 

Ever heard about the wristband technique to treat anxiety. It consists in snapping a rubber band against your wrist whenever you have negative thoughts. When you want to change a mindset, you repeat positive affirmations while snapping it. In your case would be “don’t think about the outcome”, or “have a good time without expectations”… Well is think this method is complete BS. But it’s somehow similar to what you are doing, your "experiment" so to speak. 

The wristband method is surface healing. People who suffer anxiety have to address the REAL issues. 

If you still have to convince yourself that you can meet this guy without looking for the outcome, then you aren’t in a healthy place yet.  

The only way to get there is to start improving your own life. (I think I remember that you once said that you feel bored sometimes, that you aren’t completely satisfied with your life.) 

Build yourself a life that you are fully happy with. Have occupations, hobbies, friends, be happy to get up every morning with or without a man in your life, and then you will be able to start dating without worrying for the outcome… Also have to mention that people can sense our neediness or anxiety even if we are doing a great job hiding it… it’s what our aura is made of. So, I don't think your experiment is sustainable because it is surface cure to a deeper issue. JMHO based on my experience: Been there, done that.... 😉 

[Batya33]

41 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I don't see how I am 'using' him in this situation, I could think of other situations when you use someone but here I didn't promise him anything and I'm not leading him on either, it's a simple catch up.

 

 

I went on a number of dates that were an experiment of some sort from the other person's perspective and I think (I know -earlier I wondered about this too from his perspective) it's ok here because you would want to see him again if you are still attracted to and interested in him - so he's not wasting his time because of your internal experiment or however you want to phrase it.  It's just like -since it's a catch up as you say -it's totally fine if he meets up even if in the next few weeks he starts dating someone he really likes and doesn't tell you -he just meets up as in why not and he can sort of comparison shop -it's none of your business of course. So obviously you'd be fine with that too.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Ever heard about the wristband technique to treat anxiety. It consists in snapping a rubber band against your wrist whenever you have negative thoughts. When you want to change a mindset, you repeat positive affirmations while snapping it. In your case would be “don’t think about the outcome”, or “have a good time without expectations”… Well is think this method is complete BS. But it’s somehow similar to what you are doing, your "experiment" so to speak. 

So in her case I think that would work as a temporary bandaid -in other situations -meaning it might help her get through a date in a fake it till you make it way -I used to do positive mantras to myself that were a bit ridiculous as I walked into a cafe to meet someone for the first time (you are glamorous -when I wasn't -at all -but it gave me confidence to have good posture and appear calm) - this is similar to let's say getting through a job interview or - like if taking off on a plane causes anxiety. I say other situations where she's first meeting the person -not where she's really into the person and already has emotional attachment. 

This temporary bandaid would allow her to make a good first impression then, later, evaluate on her own how she  felt about the person/the  date - and I would hope anxiety decreases if there is mutual interest. 

I have never done the rubber band thing but done similar -gotta make it through this even though I'm nervous - fake it till you make it.  I hear you - many many people can feel the vibe/energy of insecurity but prepping in advance -even intense exercise and or deep breating technniques/mantras -can get your body/mind aligned and ready to show up in a more secure way. JMHO of what I've done and heard of others.

[kim42]

I don't want to justify myself anymore, as I said it's ok if not everyone understands this situation or has a different point of view, so I'll update you guys in November.

[Sindy_0311]

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So in her case I think that would work as a temporary bandaid -in other situations -meaning it might help her get through a date in a fake it till you make it way -I used to do positive mantras to myself that were a bit ridiculous as I walked into a cafe to meet someone for the first time (you are glamorous -when I wasn't -at all -but it gave me confidence to have good posture and appear calm) - this is similar to let's say getting through a job interview or - like if taking off on a plane causes anxiety. I say other situations where she's first meeting the person -not where she's really into the person and already has emotional attachment. 

This temporary bandaid would allow her to make a good first impression then, later, evaluate on her own how she  felt about the person/the  date - and I would hope anxiety decreases if there is mutual interest. 

I have never done the rubber band thing but done similar -gotta make it through this even though I'm nervous - fake it till you make it.  I hear you - many many people can feel the vibe/energy of insecurity but prepping in advance -even intense exercise and or deep breating technniques/mantras -can get your body/mind aligned and ready to show up in a more secure way. JMHO of what I've done and heard of others.

I don't believe in positive affirmations... like giving yourself a thumbs up beyond the mirror each morning to make the day great, it doesn't work for me. I agree that breathing and encouraging yourself before going on a date to reduce stress might help, but at the end, you are who you are with what you bring to the table. And this cannot be faked... 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I don't believe in positive affirmations... like giving yourself a thumbs up beyond the mirror each morning to make the day great, it doesn't work for me. I agree that breathing and encouraging yourself before going on a date to reduce stress might help, but at the end, you are who you are with what you bring to the table. And this cannot be faked... 

I don't either -they are ridiculous IMO.  My mantras I used while walking in to a cafe reminded me to have good posture (I do -naturally- but obviously I often felt self conscious having to find my date/not bump into people lol) - reminded me that I mattered too - and helped me get centered.  Just like for a job interview.  For me personally once I got myself grounded/centered I was good to go - I wasn't faking that level of security (not perfect confidence -but a centered/calm enough approach)

-I don't have any mental health disorders so maybe for me personally it worked in those situations.  I would never try daily positive affirmations.  I do practice breathing but not just before stressful situations and I do say nightly prayers where I express gratitude for at least 3 things that day even teensy weensy things - those sorts of affirmations work for me.  

[catfeeder]

12 hours ago, kim42 said:

I don't see how I am 'using' him in this situation, I could think of other situations when you use someone but here I didn't promise him anything and I'm not leading him on either, it's a simple catch up.

Yep! Honestly, seeing six pages of people nit-picking and nattering at you, a grown woman, for trusting this 'support' forum with your private desire to visit someone who you've known for years and recently connected with makes me question why anyone would ever come here and want to confide in 'us' as a group.

Splitting hairs on how you may want to try testing your own private ability to avoid plunging overboard into an overly hopeful investment in the guy comes off as badgering and bullying. And frankly? I don't know any-any-anyone who hasn't gone down that road, and regardless of how many well-meaners have tried to warn us not to feel what we feel, you can't police that! For yourself or anyone else.

So just DO IT. This isn't about nitty criticisms posted by strangers, it's about you and your own private choices, which, I hope you understand are not accountable to any of US.

Uhm... but I still want to know how it works out. 🙂

In your corner, and head high.