Online dating help

[Whirling D]

Hi all…

Haven’t been on here for a little while, since things have been going OK on most fronts.

Things with my kid have smoothened out and are going well. She hasn’t been asking to go live with her mom, which is good… Things with her mom have been good, as well.

Then there’s the dating thing. There’s been a bit of a development.  

Finally, after what seems like forever, a nice lady liked my online dating profile.  I wasn’t sure what I thought about it, at first, in terms of first impressions… So I let it sit for a while, plus I was busy with other things.

After a couple of weeks, I liked her’s back, and we matched… At some point, I wrote her a nice introduction… Simple but fun…

Within hours, she wrote me back a nice reply… Asked me what I do for work, and made a comment about something she liked about my profile, regarding something fun I said on there.

I wanted to write back right away and see if we could get a back-and-forth exchange going, but I thought about it over and over, and did some research, and eventually decided I would wait 24 hours. Then, I got busy, and it turned into 48 hours before I got back to her.

I wrote her a nice reply, not lengthy, just said hi and asked her how things were going… I asked her what her job is that she had mentioned previously but not specified…

Took her 24 hours to answer, but the following evening she sent her second note, also nice, pretty straightforward… And to that, I commented very quickly afterward kind of a one-liner regarding what she said.  She didn’t pick that one up until tonight, 24 hours later, but hasn’t responded to it…

It’s hard to say whether my one-liner warranted a response, but one way or the other, one would think, if she wanted to respond, she would have. There is always room for a response if somebody jokes with you about something.

So, there is more… She tells me she’s a primary care physician… UGG. I am barely employed and most months I’m not even breaking even. I can’t even really afford the Starbucks I have three or four times a week. How am I supposed to entertain a physician?

I know that many of you are going to say the obvious… That I am way ahead of myself… That people shouldn’t judge each other by their economic income, but I think it’s more complicated than that… There is a potential social status issue.  Is it really practical to expect that someone that is high income and runs in a fairly affluent circle would be able to keep reasonable time with somebody that has pretty much dropped out of society and lives out in the woods with zero money and a house that’s falling apart? That just seems like a recipe for a heart break, at least for me.  so, I don’t know what to do about that.

The other question would be how to handle the message situation, given that she read my one-liner tonight but didn’t respond… When should I reach out again, and what should I say?

She lives in a beautiful little town that I know reasonably well that’s a little over an hour from me, and I know fairly quickly I’ll suggest to go up there and we could meet for lunch and walk around the town… But maybe I need to be a little bit more methodical. When would I ask her to do that? The third message might be a little quick to do that, but we’re both on there, allegedly, to meet someone, so why should I beat around the bush? I don’t know.

I thought about sending her something a little silly like I have done before, and say to her… “You know, you probably might have questions… So I will give you five free answers… To any questions that you can come up with, and I’ll try to answer them as honestly and ask completely as I can… OK, go…!“  See how that goes.

I read on a psychology website recently that there had been studies done about double texting, which means one person texting twice in a row when the other person drops out. If I recall, it said that your chance of having the person respond back to you again goes up by about 10% if you wait for 24 hours to send the second text, but it goes up considerably more if you even wait a week.

given that I didn’t really say much on my last response to her, other than a joke, does that really count as a response? Do I owe her something with a little more substance, since I didn’t really respond to her second nice message to me?  Or, should I wait and see if she says anything more? I could give her another day or two, but I don’t know what that’s going to change. She saw my message from last night, and hasn’t responded. Since she opened the app, she was on there to use it, and if she saw my note and didn’t respond, that may tell me something. Maybe she’s already determined that there are red flags? I don’t know. Just thinking out loud.

What would you guys do?

 

 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Whirling D said:

After a couple of weeks, I liked her’s back, 

 decided I would wait 24 hours. Then, I got busy, and it turned into 48 hours before I got back to her.

Unfortunately she may have lost interest because of the stalling and not asking to meet.  Many people  are on dating apps to meet people, rather than find text buddies to banter with. Displaying this much disinterest by stalling trying to chitchat too much,may have inspired her to move on.

If she replies, great, if not you can move forward since you're on the app anyway.  Perhaps next time, after a couple of messages, suggest meeting and try to skip too much banter so they don't think you're just looking for text buddies.

Unfortunately there's a subtext of "she's out of your league", so if you feel that way, why not start messaging and meeting less tony women who you feel more comfortable with?

[MissCanuck]

55 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

She saw my message from last night, and hasn’t responded.

What was your last message? 

[Kwothe28]

You are way too jumpy to conclusions there. There is nothing to worry about the house when you are at messaging stage. And there is nothing to worry about entertaining her when she is not answering your messages. 

Why did you play games and answered after 48 hours and with one-note messages? Have you also read somewhere how that is a good strategy to get answers? Because it isnt lol. People hate both late messages and one-note answers. Couple of hourse between messages is fine, you might have been caught up in something. Whole days means you deliberately dont want to answer that much or just dont care.

[Batya33]

I agree that she may have lost interest in meeting you and moved on given your lack of response.  If she does want someone financially stable and with a stable job you two might not be a good match if indeed she is an employed physician but who knows -also if your situation is temporary that would be a factor.  Or she might be independently wealthy and not care at all about what someone's job or financial status is.  I was just going on what I was looking for when I was dating.  I did date men who were temporarily unemployed, I dated many men who made less than me in terms of salary -those things were not issues to me.  But she's not me.  So find out!

[Whirling D]

Yeah, I didn’t answer right away, and I know I’ve read multiple places that they say that sometimes answering right away seems desperate. I think I was also busy and it got late.  I did read somewhere where they took a poll and asked women if it is hot or not when someone messages you right back each time, and the general consensus was that women found it attractive when men messaged  them right back on dating sites.

in our second exchange back-and-forth, she was showing a little bit of south deprecating humor, so I returned that.  I was talking about how we are both the same age and told her I was just noticing that the year I was born has the same last two digits as my age, for the first time in my life… Was just a silly observation, which she seemed to enjoy. She responded by saying that she was born in the year prior to me, so she will have to look for that double digit thing which would occur for her next year. 

she concluded by saying that she was tired because she’s been out all day, and I was driving my kid home when that note came in, so it was already half an hour later when I got it, so I didn’t think she was going to likely see my final message, but I wrote anyway and said… “Well, when you said you were born in March, I was going to tease you that you are older than me, but then when you dropped the 1962 bomb (which makes her younger than me), I can now tease you that I am older than you!”

Yeah, I know, someone on here is going to tell me that was a bad joke. I don’t think it was, and if someone thinks it’s a bad joke, then that person wouldn’t be for me.

 

 

[Whirling D]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I agree that she may have lost interest in meeting you and moved on given your lack of response.  If she does want someone financially stable and with a stable job you two might not be a good match if indeed she is an employed physician but who knows -also if your situation is temporary that would be a factor.  Or she might be independently wealthy and not care at all about what someone's job or financial status is.  I was just going on what I was looking for when I was dating.  I did date men who were temporarily unemployed, I dated many men who made less than me in terms of salary -those things were not issues to me.  But she's not me.  So find out!

Nice to hear from you, Bat,

interestingly, I wasn’t getting a strong read that it bothered her that I didn’t make any money. We didn’t get too far into detail, but in her first message, she asked if I had a job that was fun, because my profile has a few fun bits in it. I told her I’d been a teacher for almost 20 years, but was just earning some income on the side doing lessons now… She responded by saying that she was just thinking that she had wished she would learn an instrument, but thinks her brain was no longer firing on the required cylinders to do that… Which was her way of trying to be funny… I can certainly appreciate that.

what I could do, and you guys can tell me whether this is wise, is write her a nice note now… Telling her something that is true… That I spent the entire day yesterday driving 12 hours to come up to where my family is to attend my dad‘s funeral later in the week. That might open the door to a response.

In that same article I mentioned, and it may have been in psychology today… They said double messaging can actually still be quite effective up to a week later, maybe more.  I guess the question is… Should I be aggressive and text her back next anyway, or give her another few days to see if she responds to my little quip?  After all, there is no real way to know why she didn’t respond to it with another little quip of her own… but I know if it was me, I probably would’ve said something smart alec-y back to her…!

 

 

 

[Whirling D]

Do you guys really think that sending just two medium-sized messages is too long to wait before asking someone out? I haven’t gotten that impression with many of the things I’ve read. Some of them said maybe wait until you’ve been messaging for about a week, or so, or something like that. It’s probably different for different people, right?

[boltnrun]

What is this "I read" and "someone said"? Are you reading a bunch of "dating coach" websites?

You know those don't work, I hope. And their "polls" are made up or are a very small group made up only of people who read their sites.

Asking if she's interested in meeting for coffee is your best bet IMO. No more time wasting messaging back and forth. I suggest asking her today. 

[Whirling D]

I do read a lot of dating theory.  Some of it seems reasonable and plausible.  

Of course, it’s all subjective.

For me, personally, I would think that someone asking me to get together after only two previous exchanges would be a bit of a red flag.  That’s just me though.  Wouldn’t she want to know a bit more?  Wouldn’t she want to know more about who she might be spending her time with?  I dunno.

I can’t imagine she’s not getting a ton of suitors, so she may have the luxury of being selective.

There’s also the thought that if she didn’t respond to my last quip, her interest level is not likely high, so why would I pursue it?  
 

Is it really worth chasing someone who detaches so quickly, generally speaking?

 

 

 

[boltnrun]

You are excellent at talking yourself out of asking women out. You seem very fearful of getting a "no". I mean, a few days ago you didn't even know this woman existed so why would a "sorry, but no thanks" crush you? It wouldn't, of course.

I can't imagine why she would prefer inane texts over in person interaction. Unless all she's into is hearing her phone notification go off 😆

[Jaunty]

54 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I do read a lot of dating theory.  Some of it seems reasonable and plausible.

The "dating theory" that advises men to wait days to respond to a message from a women so they won't "seem desperate" isn't reasonable and plausible.   Interested people act interested.  Interested does not = desperate.   

It's hard to find someone who's a good fit.  If you might encounter such a person don't squander the opportunity to get to know them through games devised to protect you from an ego burn.  

Also, a game player is pretty easy to spot - and avoid, if you're healthy.

54 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

 

For me, personally, I would think that someone asking me to get together after only two previous exchanges would be a bit of a red flag.  That’s just me though.  Wouldn’t she want to know a bit more?  Wouldn’t she want to know more about who she might be spending her time with?  I dunno.

Generally, people are advised to meet quickly if they find an interesting match on OLD.  That reduces the buildup of false intimacy, over - investment in a stranger, etc.  

The first meet should be just that - a casual, comfortable meeting in a public place.  If you hit it off, the next one will be the first real date.

54 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I can’t imagine she’s not getting a ton of suitors, so she may have the luxury of being selective.

There’s also the thought that if she didn’t respond to my last quip, her interest level is not likely high, so why would I pursue it?  
 

Is it really worth chasing someone who detaches so quickly, generally speaking?

Always assume that someone you find interesting and desirable has other suitors, and don't play games.  

She probably thought YOUR interest was low because you chose / were "too busy" to respond to her in a timely fashion.  Meanwhile, potential other suitors ...

 

[bluecastle]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

I do read a lot of dating theory.

My advice, based on this and other threads, is to give the dating theory disquisitions a rest. Instead, consider diverting that energy to reading novels, new ones, classics, whatever, as they are excellent at graphing the utterly compelling mystery of humans and human emotions, putting a spotlight on the reality that we can't be boxed into charts, and fostering a more empathetic and humble outlook on it all that can make for richer connections. 

Just speaking for myself, for whatever it's worth? I honestly spent exactly zero time thinking about this stuff when I was using the dating apps. I messaged people when I wanted to message them, including when someone went a little cold and I was still curious. Never took that personality, because taking it anyway just felt like a misuse of brain cells. Whatever conclusion a woman would reach about me based on my messaging proclivities—that I was amazing, that I was awful—would inherently be so wrong that I just didn't see the point of trying to inflate that balloon. 

Worth noting: There is a long history of movies using the device of men waiting 24-48 hours before contacting a woman to highlight (generously) the Mars vs Venus attributes of men and women, or (less generously) the occasionally dunce-y side of dudes. In short, it's a cultural cautionary tale, that kind of game playing, so regardless of where this goes I'd try to shed it from the arsenal and just be, you know, you.  

[Whirling D]

I don’t consider waiting a bit to message playing games.  I was just trying to not seem to needy or desperate, which I know can be a red flag.  That is more for strategy.

One would hope if she liked my profile, and our interactions, she would follow it through.  But… the other suitors.  Part of me things that if she moved on that quickly that she wouldn’t be the right choice for me.

Is this perhaps lowballing it?  I mean, she liked my profile, and we exchanged nice texts, only briefly, twice.  Unless she found red flags, like my likely income, or my delay (which for me would not red flags), I can’t see that someone would move on so quickly, unless they were interacting with someone else that they seemed to like better, and if this was the case, why would I want it to continue anyway?
 

 

[Whirling D]

6 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

My advice, based on this and other threads, is to give the dating theory disquisitions a rest. Instead, consider diverting that energy to reading novels, new ones, classics, whatever, as they are excellent at graphing the utterly compelling mystery of humans and human emotions, putting a spotlight on the reality that we can't be boxed into charts, and fostering a more empathetic and humble outlook on it all that can make for richer connections. 

Just speaking for myself, for whatever it's worth? I honestly spent exactly zero time thinking about this stuff when I was using the dating apps. I messaged people when I wanted to message them, including when someone went a little cold and I was still curious. Never took that personality, because taking it anyway just felt like a misuse of brain cells. Whatever conclusion a woman would reach about me based on my messaging proclivities—that I was amazing, that I was awful—would inherently be so wrong that I just didn't see the point of trying to inflate that balloon. 

Worth noting: There is a long history of movies using the device of men waiting 24-48 hours before contacting a woman to highlight (generously) the Mars vs Venus attributes of men and women, or (less generously) the occasionally dunce-y side of dudes. In short, it's a cultural cautionary tale, that kind of game playing, so regardless of where this goes I'd try to shed it from the arsenal and just be, you know, you.  

Thanks, Blue…

Well, I pretty much get zero responses from nice ladies on dating apps, so when someone nice shows interest, I’d rather not screw it up.

Not to mention that I’ve pretty much given up on cold messaging ladies, since I’ve probably written 100 thoughtful, often funny messages to ladies I think would be “in my league” and my return message rate is 100% zero.  

So, it stands to reason I want to be careful with nuance.

 

[bluecastle]

27 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Well, I pretty much get zero responses from nice ladies on dating apps, so when someone nice shows interest, I’d rather not screw it up.

I get this. 

I also get how someone who really, really doesn't want to get a car accident, and thus white knuckles the wheel while driving, often ends up in exactly the situation they wanted to avoid. 

That's not saying you wrecked a car here, but that "not screwing up" and "not fretting over data" may have more of a symbiotic relationship than not. 

My approach to the apps was like this: If a brief back and forth was remotely interesting and not overtly off putting, I said something like, "I'd love to continue this chat in 3D, away from pixels, over a coffee, walk, or glass of wine. How's tomorrow or Thursday for you?" I found this to be "affective," to put it queasily, but more to the point it was honest, me being me rather than starting a strange dance when no music was even playing. 

You've been married, been in relationships. Odds are you can look back on any time when you found yourself playing a game with someone and quadruple checking yourself as a time when things went sideways. So why start things off on a  bent line, you know? 

[boltnrun]

I would consider a man who preferred messaging over meeting in person a waste of my time. I would also consider a man who deliberately let a prescribed amount of time go by without responding to my message a waste of my time. I would presume he's using those "guaranteed results!!!!111" dating coach websites to navigate dating instead of trusting himself and the process.

Yes, I get that you're gun shy. You haven't been getting the results you'd like to be getting. But altering your behavior to follow some sort of program isn't being your true self. Maybe you think your true self isn't attractive to women, I don't know. But I'd want someone who was genuine to himself, not someone who tried to apply some set of "rules" in an attempt to get my interest. 

I'm not saying you should immediately leap on a woman's messages. I expect adult men to legit be busy and have better things to do than stare at their phones. But I suggest responding as soon as you're able to compose a thoughtful and genuine response. And like Bluecastle said above, a request to meet in person. 

[Whirling D]

13 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I would consider a man who preferred messaging over meeting in person a waste of my time. I would also consider a man who deliberately let a prescribed amount of time go by without responding to my message a waste of my time. I would presume he's using those "guaranteed results!!!!111" dating coach websites to navigate dating instead of trusting himself and the process.

Yes, I get that you're gun shy. You haven't been getting the results you'd like to be getting. But altering your behavior to follow some sort of program isn't being your true self. Maybe you think your true self isn't attractive to women, I don't know. But I'd want someone who was genuine to himself, not someone who tried to apply some set of "rules" in an attempt to get my interest. 

I'm not saying you should immediately leap on a woman's messages. I expect adult men to legit be busy and have better things to do than stare at their phones. But I suggest responding as soon as you're able to compose a thoughtful and genuine response. And like Bluecastle said above, a request to meet in person. 

Yes, I can see how all of this is likely true.

it’s also worthy to note that this lady seems to be online about once a day… And usually mid evening, so I suspect she’s not spending a lot of time looking at her phone looking for dates, like I often am.  Or even perhaps thinking much about it.

I also suspect that a woman who is only tolerant of about two messages before she gives up on them, particularly because she hasn’t heard back from them for 24 or 48 hrs., isn’t likely the one for me, either, since that seems a bit extreme to me.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I do read a lot of dating theory.  Some of it seems reasonable and plausible.  

Of course, it’s all subjective.

For me, personally, I would think that someone asking me to get together after only two previous exchanges would be a bit of a red flag.  That’s just me though.  Wouldn’t she want to know a bit more?  Wouldn’t she want to know more about who she might be spending her time with?  I dunno.

I can’t imagine she’s not getting a ton of suitors, so she may have the luxury of being selective.

There’s also the thought that if she didn’t respond to my last quip, her interest level is not likely high, so why would I pursue it?  
 

Is it really worth chasing someone who detaches so quickly, generally speaking?

 

 

 

Ifound it a red flag if they wanted to exchange more than one message before having a phone call and more than one phone call before making a plan for a first meet.  A first meet is not a date.

[Whirling D]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Ifound it a red flag if they wanted to exchange more than one message before having a phone call and more than one phone call before making a plan for a first meet.  A first meet is not a date.

How so did you find it a red flag?  One message?

[boltnrun]

26 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I also suspect that a woman who is only tolerant of about two messages before she gives up on them, particularly because she hasn’t heard back from them for 24 or 48 hrs., isn’t likely the one for me, either, since that seems a bit extreme to me.

But you're doing this exact same thing:

13 hours ago, Whirling D said:

She saw my message from last night, and hasn’t responded. Since she opened the app, she was on there to use it, and if she saw my note and didn’t respond, that may tell me something.

You're deciding her interest level based on response time, yet you think it would be "extreme" if she did the same thing?

I still think you're allowing your fear to talk you out of trying with a woman you think might be out of your "league".

I mentioned that Yes song in one of your threads months ago. Seems like it still applies here...

[Batya33]

Just now, Whirling D said:

How so did you find it a red flag?  One message?

I found it a red flag if they were unwilling to have a phone call after the first messages back and forth.  I only responded to or contacted men who were marriage minded. My purpose in a first meet was to see if there should be a first date with a marriage minded man.  I had enough friends, acquaintances and chat buddies.  So if he was unwilling to have a phone call I moved on.  99.9% were -I can't even remember one who wasn't.  I met over 100 men in person.  

I would not meet in person without a phone call.  And if at the end of the phone call he did not suggest a first meet or agree to meet when I asked without a real  reason - like, he was leaving for a trip and could we talk when he returned/he wasn't feeling well so could we  talk when he felt better etc I moved on. I didn't date online or want to get to know someone through typing and talking.  I did a safety screen on phone and also sometimes via Google lol and my standard was "do I think I would have a pleasant conversation with this person for about an hour at a coffee shop or for a walk, etc.  If yes, I wanted to meet.

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

Well, I pretty much get zero responses from nice ladies on dating apps, so when someone nice shows interest, I’d rather not screw it up.

 

So you do it by making them wait a day or two and with one-note answers?

There is a considerable difference between not answering at the same moment they send a message so you dont seem desperate and not answering for 2 days. There is also a considerable difference between giving her a one-note "I am not interested"(lots of people decrypt one-note answers in that way) answers and maybe answering to what she asked and asking her something about her and showing interest and keeping the conversation going. 

I get the feeling that you are getting too caught up in in the prospect of matches and not enough caught up in making the next step and see where it goes. Yes, most men, unlike women, dont get a lot of matches, so its OK to think you need to "make them count". But your whole "dating strategy" is wrong. Your goal should be to see if you are a good match or not. That means sending a few messages, see if she is interesting and if she has some level of interest, and then exchange social networks, phone number or even call on a date and going further to see if you are a match or not. You fantasizing what would happen in future, and not even going step-by-step would just lead you to more dissapointment. Just dont play games and go step-by-step. Its OK f they dont answer, ghost or anything. They are still strangers so you need to be comfortable with rejection as it doesnt mean too much. You just need to move on to next one that would maybe be interested for something more. Same here. If she didnt answer you in 2 days, she is a goner. Its no biggie, next one maybe wont be. Just dont make the same mistakes there.

[Whirling D]

I think those are all reasonable ideas, but a couple of clarifications… I think my messages with her really clearly showed interest, maybe not directly, but indirectly… Like… “Nice to see you on here“… joking with her… Asking her questions, etc.  They were two generally nice messages that both of us sent to each other.

For clarification, I went back and looked. It was only 24 hours that I waited to get back to her, not 48. I don’t think that should send any indication of lack of interest, do you?  Also, her messages were 24 hours to respond to both, as well.

I also noticed that she did not ask any questions in her second message, like she did in her first message… She paid me a compliment regarding my profile, then she asked me what kind of work I did. No questions in the second one, just banter. I wonder if that shows a waning interest?

Plus, I have every intention of getting back to her, so I’m not bailing out after two messages. I’m just trying to gather my strategy before I do.

 

 

[bluecastle]

4 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I think those are all reasonable ideas, but a couple of clarifications… I think my messages with her really clearly showed interest, maybe not directly, but indirectly…

I'm just going to point out that this kind of thing is a theme in your threads: the hedging clarifications that contradict a poster's analysis and land firmly back in the understandably comfortable zone where you've done everything right. 

Which is not me saying you've done everything, or anything, "wrong," or that the words written here should be taken as some kind of gospel. But you are scheming and battle-planning very hard here, rather than acting in an organic way, and it seems the outcome of all that is more confusion and less clarity in the core. That right there seems like enough reason to be open to a different way of thinking about all this... 

8 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I wonder if that shows a waning interest?

If you want to convince yourself of that, and find comfort there, you've already got your hand on the knob to that door. Me, my attitude was always: How much "interest" should anyone really have in me when I'm just pixels? And my answer to that was: very, very little, but hopefully enough to say yes when I asked them to meet up.

So rather than "strategizing," why don't you just do exactly that and then you each have a bit of IRL time to see if you're interested in seeing each other a second time? After all, that's what you want, correct? Worst case scenario is crickets or a no, which at least to me seems a better case scenario than spinning around in your own head.