Online dating help

[Whirling D]

8 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I would advise against trying to get her to message you while she's away. You haven't even seen her in person one time. Messaging while traveling is a "relationship" thing, not something that people who have never even met would be likely to do. Please don't push for relationship type behaviors right off the bat. That would come across as presumptuous, IMO. 

Also, if she's a doctor it's highly unlikely she'll have all day to text back and forth. Most doctors are very busy during their workdays. 

What "chatty" things are you thinking of trying? She said meeting for coffee sounded like a good idea, so why not agree to that and suggest a place to meet? It didn't seem to me like she was asking you to message her more, but more like she's on board with actually meeting. 

Good advice… 

So, I got busy last night and forgot to reply, but that seems to be the status quo for both of us. 24 hours.

You guys think I shouldn’t be too chatty this time around. Should I ask no further questions? Other than what might be related to when and where we meet up?

Initially, I was going to ask her where in Florida she is going, and what kind of things she will do when she gets there… Etc. Let that stuff go?

As mentioned before, I do like bantering. Since there is nobody around for a good chunk of my day, and I have no social life, texting back-and-forth is just a natural form of interaction for me. I befriended quite a few ladies through text banter, and I find it fun!   These particular ladies liked it, also.

I do know it’s not for everybody.  I also don’t feel that I expect it. I would be disappointed if somebody didn’t like to banter through text here and there, and I don’t really understand why some don’t like to do it, other than they might be really busy, but that’s up to them.  I don’t think it would be a dealbreaker one way or the other, as long as I feel their attention and energy coming from somewhere else.

I think it was Bat that made a good point earlier… about me needing a certain kind of interaction, or feedback, from a partner to feel valued. That is true. I do need validating attention fairly often. I’m getting better at not needing that, but I think it comes from years and years of being overtly and subtly invalidated by so many people, going right back to my youth. I think that’s where the trauma trigger comes from. 

I think somebody might’ve also inferred that if I have these triggers, maybe it’s not the best time to find a relationship. I have had these triggers my entire life, I’m not going to expect myself to just sit on the sideline because I might get triggered. I think that’s unrealistic. 

Yes, my triggers have reared their ugly heads in almost every relationship I’ve had, and they have been at times destructive, but I am also fairly vocal and proactive about it, and I’m pretty good at describing to partners or friends what’s happening and why it’s happening. That may not be for all potential partners, but so be it. That’s only one small part of what I have to offer.

I do worry about that a bit with future potential partners, especially straight shooters. That’s my first red flag with this lady… If she is a hard-working professional, and has been raised to be focused, clear thinking and driven, I think the likelihood that her and I would be compatible might be fairly low. 

I think I will likely be best suited to somebody who also struggles a little bit with their sense of self, and can relate to why I am the way I am, rather than someone that will expect me to have my crap together at all times and not struggle. It would be my guess that someone at that has risen to the level of primary care physician it’s not going to have a lot of time or interest in someone who struggles with their mental health, despite other possible positive attributes.

Wouldn’t you agree?

 

 

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

 forgot to reply, but that seems to be the status quo for both of us. 24 hours.

 I was going to ask her where in Florida she is going, and what kind of things she will do when she gets there… 

It's interesting that you viewed a half hour as ghosting, but continue to stall yourself.

She's on vacation. It's doubtful she wants to answer too many intrusive questions or chitchat to keep you entertained.

Step back, keep yourself busy with things and reply in a timely manner that you would like to meet up when she gets back.

[Batya33]

No there's no reason to sit on the sidelines.  There's every reason to get help so that you own your triggers, and you react to them in a way that doesn't burden a potential partner too much.  I woke up my husband early on Tuesday morning. I only do that when our son is just too much for me to handle and I need help getting him out the door on time for school -and that is rare. 

I woke him up early because I was triggered -I was really scared because I thought I had a potential infection from dental work and my reaction was more intense than typical because I've had those sorts of infections, and it triggers me (more than it would him).  I needed his emotional support and potentially practical too (meaning getting my son to school if dentist could see me ASAP).   It's been years and years since I needed him because of a trigger in a situation that was burdensome to him.  I felt comfortable burdening him in this way because it is so very rare.

I dated someone insecure before I reconnected with my husband. After 3 weeks of dating he was questioning me too much about my dating life (we were not exclusive), and about stuff he thought he saw in my purse and being too clingy. I told him this was not ok.  He said he was sorry, he was working on his issues in therapy.  For about a week it was better.  Then started again.  Lovely person, attractive, intelligent, successful.  There is no way I was going to take on his over the top reactions and comments related to his triggers/insecurities.  Not in the long term.  I ended things in part because of this after about 6 weeks of dating.

You seem to take things to a hyperbolic level - no one is telling you to sit on the sidelines.  And at the same time there are no sidelines -dating is not for everyone, not everyone gets to date.  It's not an entitlement.  You've already had the privilege of being married, of having a child -you weren't on your "sidelines" all those years.  For sure if you want to date you should but you have to be responsible for you and I think you have unrealistic expectations of a future partner.  Be your best self and if that means therapy, or self help books or yoga or meditation or staying hydrated- whatever works. 

[Whirling D]

23 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

No there's no reason to sit on the sidelines.  There's every reason to get help so that you own your triggers, and you react to them in a way that doesn't burden a potential partner too much.  I woke up my husband early on Tuesday morning. I only do that when our son is just too much for me to handle and I need help getting him out the door on time for school -and that is rare. 

I woke him up early because I was triggered -I was really scared because I thought I had a potential infection from dental work and my reaction was more intense than typical because I've had those sorts of infections, and it triggers me (more than it would him).  I needed his emotional support and potentially practical too (meaning getting my son to school if dentist could see me ASAP).   It's been years and years since I needed him because of a trigger in a situation that was burdensome to him.  I felt comfortable burdening him in this way because it is so very rare.

I dated someone insecure before I reconnected with my husband. After 3 weeks of dating he was questioning me too much about my dating life (we were not exclusive), and about stuff he thought he saw in my purse and being too clingy. I told him this was not ok.  He said he was sorry, he was working on his issues in therapy.  For about a week it was better.  Then started again.  Lovely person, attractive, intelligent, successful.  There is no way I was going to take on his over the top reactions and comments related to his triggers/insecurities.  Not in the long term.  I ended things in part because of this after about 6 weeks of dating.

You seem to take things to a hyperbolic level - no one is telling you to sit on the sidelines.  And at the same time there are no sidelines -dating is not for everyone, not everyone gets to date.  It's not an entitlement.  You've already had the privilege of being married, of having a child -you weren't on your "sidelines" all those years.  For sure if you want to date you should but you have to be responsible for you and I think you have unrealistic expectations of a future partner.  Be your best self and if that means therapy, or self help books or yoga or meditation or staying hydrated- whatever works. 

In all fairness, Bat… You only know what I write, and you don’t know my history or my present, even.  These postings are how I purge, and perhaps release some of the anxiety. I find it somewhat therapeutic, kind of like journaling.  

just because I talk about something here or purge here, doesn’t mean that’s what I’m going to do or how I’m going to handle myself in “real life“.

I keep myself reasonably well together in the real world, minus being somewhat shy, currently single and unable to attract girls that I like, and barely employed. I guess if someone can’t understand or doesn’t value those things, I will just be S out of luck.  

As far as “getting help“ for my triggers and anxiety, I have been under the guidance of therapists, and have done my own self work for a better part of 30 years. There’s been no lack of that, believe me. I could probably write a book on my own mental health status, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I will never be triggered. 

relationships are the one area that I seem the most prone to triggering, and it also seems to be the most troubling area, and pretty much has always been that way.  

I think one of the reasons that I look for particular kinds of ladies, and also why the ones that I have found over the last bunch of years have not worked out, it’s because I’m trying to find someone with less drama, so the situation won’t be as triggering… But that hasn’t happened. Each of my last three relationships have been based on anxiety and drama, and I’m so done with that. Yet, there are many that would likely feel being with me has more drama than they are willing to accept… Which is why I think I would be better off with somebody that struggles a little bit, rather than someone to seemingly has all their crap together and is highly focused. 

But one never knows, who knows it that’s exactly what I need… 🙂

[Batya33]

If you want a potential relationship I’d greatly restrict the dismissive “one never knows “. Never knowing situations are rare and to me shouldn’t be overused especially as a crutch. 
the more I read the more it seems you want online dating help so you can justify dating online. I never dated online. I wouldn’t know what that even is other than a fantasy. I met over 100 men in person through dating sites. I know of many happy couples who met online. My friend just texted me that his daughter is trying to pick a college. He met his wife through a dating site. I am personal friends with at least 4 couples together many years with kids who originally met on line -well one is only married 5 years I think.
My husband had an online profile for a couple of years in the early 2000s and we never reconnected on line for a really silly reason but he’s an example of a person who is a really well rounded mostly drama free person who met me another person with an active profile who was mostly drama free. 
I agree you don’t need excessive drama. That’s fairly easy to screen out when you meet in person with some exceptions. Not easy if you rely on typing and talking to a stranger. 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

I have no social life, texting back-and-forth is just a natural form of interaction for me.

If it's vitally important to you that a woman spends all day, every day texting you then maybe focus on retired ladies. Because I can tell you that I wouldn't do this even if I had the time to do so. It's words on a tiny screen! I find it somewhat odd that you place so much importance on typing and reading words on your phone rather than on actual in person interaction. 

I also wouldn't interrogate her on where she's going on her trip, what she plans to do, etc. It sounds invasive, TBH. You've never even met her! This isn't "banter". 

I suggest responding to her suggestion about meeting for coffee and wish her a fun vacation. And say you're looking forward to meeting up when she gets back from enjoying her trip. 

2 hours ago, Whirling D said:

forgot to reply,

Really? LOL. Maybe you decided to wait because she made you wait? Or is it because you're afraid of writing the wrong thing? It's a reply to her message, it doesn't need to be fraught with nervousness or fear.

It's starting to seem like you're not enjoying this. If you're not, why put yourself through this? And if you do want to meet this woman try to stop making it so agonizing. Have fun with it!

[Whirling D]

19 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

If it's vitally important to you that a woman spends all day, every day texting you then maybe focus on retired ladies. Because I can tell you that I wouldn't do this even if I had the time to do so. It's words on a tiny screen! I find it somewhat odd that you place so much importance on typing and reading words on your phone rather than on actual in person interaction. 

I also wouldn't interrogate her on where she's going on her trip, what she plans to do, etc. It sounds invasive, TBH. You've never even met her! This isn't "banter". 

I suggest responding to her suggestion about meeting for coffee and wish her a fun vacation. And say you're looking forward to meeting up when she gets back from enjoying her trip. 

Really? LOL. Maybe you decided to wait because she made you wait? Or is it because you're afraid of writing the wrong thing? It's a reply to her message, it doesn't need to be fraught with nervousness or fear.

It's starting to seem like you're not enjoying this. If you're not, why put yourself through this? And if you do want to meet this woman try to stop making it so agonizing. Have fun with it!

No… I’m away visiting family, and just get distracted.  Plus, my memory is terrible, and I easily forget the most basic of things.

I won’t ask her more stuff… even though she was willing to offer some details about her trip, so if she didn’t want to exchange details, she probably wouldn’t even offer what she did.  Plus, she hasn’t blown me off yet, despite my long-winded banter… even though her responses show a bit of subtle humor, but not really banter.  

She called herself “reserved” on her dating profile, whatever that means to her, so her somewhat dry responses might be a part of that.  Although, her first note to me pointed out that she liked one of the “fun” silly things I said on my profile.  That might be why I continued with bantering with her with silliness in my further messages… You think I should pull back with that?

Many folks I have “bantered” with on texts do like it.  I think it’s just a personal preference.  No right or wrong.  In my case, if I can’t spend time with a person, say, they are at work, I find text banter to be the next best thing.

I don’t particularly like feeling anxious about stuff like this… but I ain’t getting any younger, and I get almost zero other opportunities, so the stakes feel kind of high.

I have no doubt, if I actually meet her, that I will arrive with a positive and happy demeanor and put my best foot forward.  That’s how I usually roll.  

I’m not so sure that what Bat said is necessarily true.  I don’t think it’s always easy to spot drama quickly.  Both my ex wife and the gal I dated a couple of years ago were very good at applying the sheen over drama. 
 

The most recent lady, who I believe had an undiagnosed personality disorder was like a Jeckyl and Hyde, and I remember distinctly the day it started to appear a few months in.  She started yelling violent obscenities at the TV toward politicians and ideology that I believe in… Didn’t take too long for things to start unraveling after that.  

This is pretty common for PDs.  Afflicted partners often put their prospective/new partners high on a pedestal, but when their partner can’t live up to that expectation… the drama begins.  Sound familiar?  I believe I have some of the characteristics of BPD as well, but I’m only moderate.  This lady was far along, and it was really sad.  Self destructive and explosive.  She pretty much destroyed whatever chance we could have had.  I know she tried hard, and meant well, but her soul just couldn’t manage it.  She literally imploded right in front of me, and the more I tried to help, or rationalize things, the more verbally abusive she became.

I still miss that girl, even despite about a year of verbal assaults.
 

 

[Batya33]

I would continue bantering and dissecting her texts if you are seeking an online pen pal you can banter back and forth with.  Those have their place -just tell her that you've decided you should keep it to that -and ask if she is interested in that.  I have online pen pals (all women) including one I only text with and I consider her a dear friend, odd as it sounds (and yes I'd love to meet her in person one day but it's unlikely given we're a plane ride apart) and I keep in touch with a couple of men I met through online dating sites many years ago.  One of them does IT work for us!

Your approach -IMO-is completely inconsistent with wanting to meet and potentially date this woman in real life.  If she is looking to date, my sense is she will stop responding very soon.  

[Whirling D]

23 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I would continue bantering and dissecting her texts if you are seeking an online pen pal you can banter back and forth with.  Those have their place -just tell her that you've decided you should keep it to that -and ask if she is interested in that.  I have online pen pals (all women) including one I only text with and I consider her a dear friend, odd as it sounds (and yes I'd love to meet her in person one day but it's unlikely given we're a plane ride apart) and I keep in touch with a couple of men I met through online dating sites many years ago.  One of them does IT work for us!

Your approach -IMO-is completely inconsistent with wanting to meet and potentially date this woman in real life.  If she is looking to date, my sense is she will stop responding very soon.  

What are you talking about?  How in the world can you say that my approach is inconsistent with wanting to meet her?  

We’ve exchanged 3 messages, with me a fourth because she didn’t respond to one brief comment.  It’s not like I’m barraging her with messages, or writing long sagas.  
 

Our messages have shown no sign of her bailing out, or being put off by my messaging style…  despite my anxiety worrying about that.
 

 

[boltnrun]

Did those women you "bantered" with via text end up being successful romantic partners?

Have you responded to her yet? If you haven't, I suggest getting on with it. For all you know she's agonizing over whether or not you really do want to meet her for coffee since you didn't respond!

How about "Coffee sounds great! Do you like Coffee Shop Nearby? I thought that might be a good place to meet up after you get back." Then when she responds, wish her a fun vacation, say you're looking forward to seeing her when she gets back, and you'd love to hear how her trip went when you see her. Then keep busy while she's away. 

[Whirling D]

27 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Did those women you "bantered" with via text end up being successful romantic partners?

Have you responded to her yet? If you haven't, I suggest getting on with it. For all you know she's agonizing over whether or not you really do want to meet her for coffee since you didn't respond!

How about "Coffee sounds great! Do you like Coffee Shop Nearby? I thought that might be a good place to meet up after you get back." Then when she responds, wish her a fun vacation, say you're looking forward to seeing her when she gets back, and you'd love to hear how her trip went when you see her. Then keep busy while she's away. 

That’s pretty much exactly what I’m expecting to do.  
 

I'm just with family now and keep getting distracted… or anxious.

[bluecastle]

26 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

How about "Coffee sounds great! Do you like Coffee Shop Nearby? I thought that might be a good place to meet up after you get back." Then when she responds, wish her a fun vacation, say you're looking forward to seeing her when she gets back, and you'd love to hear how her trip went when you see her.

This.

Which, c'mon, takes exactly 18 seconds to do and be done with. It's essentially what I and others suggested right when she replied to you, which is to say it took me 18 seconds or less to write that reply. 

I realize it may seem like a Everest-shaped hill to conquer, given your deeply ingrained patterns, but if you can push yourself to just shoot off a quick, earnest note like that without all the quintuple-guessing I can't help but imagine that you'd find dating a lot less dramatic and dispiriting.

Do the math: 18 seconds of energy vs 24 hours of head-spinning—which will be more depleting? 

 

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

This.

Which, c'mon, takes exactly 18 seconds to do and be done with. It's essentially what I and others suggested right when she replied to you, which is to say it took me 18 seconds or less to write that reply. 

I realize it may seem like a Everest-shaped hill to conquer, given your deeply ingrained patterns, but if you can push yourself to just shoot off a quick, earnest note like that without all the quintuple-guessing I can't help but imagine that you'd find dating a lot less dramatic and dispiriting.

Do the math: 18 seconds of energy vs 24 hours of head-spinning—which will be more depleting? 

 

Normally, I would have written it by now… but I’m hanging with family, and she usually checks dating site in the evenings… so I still have some more hours… 😂

[boltnrun]

10 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

That’s pretty much exactly what I’m expecting to do.  
 

I'm just with family now and keep getting distracted… or anxious.

If you had time to write multi-paragraph replies on this thread you had time to respond to her message 😉

Are you going to allow your anxiety to spoil this for you? If so, maybe evaluate if you'd rather just let this one go so you don't have to be exposed to your fears. You can stay in your comfort zone of alone if you prefer. Or are you going to view this as an opportunity?

Here goes that Yes song again...

[Whirling D]

Just now, boltnrun said:

If you had time to write multi-paragraph replies on this thread you had time to respond to her message 😉

Are you going to allow your anxiety to spoil this for you? If so, maybe evaluate if you'd rather just let this one go so you don't have to be exposed to your fears. You can stay in your comfort zone of alone if you prefer. Or are you going to view this as an opportunity?

Here goes that Yes song again...

Ok, ok, I get it.  Hasn’t even been 24 hrs.  I don’t get the feeling she’s anxious about it, like I normally would be.  😂

[Batya33]

Your focus on texting and analyzing her texting to me is inconsistent with a true desire to meet in person and a true desire to implement that desire as Bolt suggested.

[boltnrun]

5 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Ok, ok, I get it.  Hasn’t even been 24 hrs.  I don’t get the feeling she’s anxious about it, like I normally would be.  😂

And I doubt she knows how anxious you are.

Why do you have to wait until the evening to respond? Are you going to "forget" or "get busy" again this evening? Your message would be in her in box, it won't disappear if you send it now. 

But again, if you'd rather stay in your comfort zone of being alone I'm sure you can come up with a lot of excuses to "wait" or things to be "busy" with.

I sincerely hope you overcome your fears and send the message. I for one would love to read about a happy result (you and her meeting for coffee and having a nice time!)

[Batya33]

Yes I hope you message her only to make a plan and confirm the plan and follow through and that you have a nice time meeting her!

[bluecastle]

9 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Hasn’t even been 24 hrs.

This isn't the point.

The point is that you've had time to write 1000s of words here about all this, turning over stones that don't even exist on a path that isn't paved. What have you gotten from that? Because it's not nothing. Were I to venture a guess I'd say what you've gotten is the salve of having an illusion of control over everything. Thing is, when it comes to these matters, no one has control—not you, not the 6-foot-plus alpha Marlboro Man who runs a hedge fund. 

You're whipping yourself into a lather because that is familiar, not because you're busy and distracted with family. Be honest about that, so you can be honest about deciding if there's another mode of action to experiment with. 

 

 

[Whirling D]

19 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

And I doubt she knows how anxious you are.

Why do you have to wait until the evening to respond? Are you going to "forget" or "get busy" again this evening? Your message would be in her in box, it won't disappear if you send it now. 

But again, if you'd rather stay in your comfort zone of being alone I'm sure you can come up with a lot of excuses to "wait" or things to be "busy" with.

I sincerely hope you overcome your fears and send the message. I for one would love to read about a happy result (you and her meeting for coffee and having a nice time!)

I am certainly concentrating on family.  We are preparing for my dad’s funeral Ian a day.  But mostly… I wait because I take awhile to “think” about the best approach to potentially maximize outcome.  That is all.  I know I will write it.  Just letting it settle in.  That’s what I always do… Yes… I analyze… think… revise thinking… make a decision.  That’s my process… Sometimes it works, sometimes I time out.

I also know that her profile shows how often she’s on, and she has NEVER been on during daylight.  At least in the 10 days I’ve been corresponding.

So, I have a bit of gamble time to “think” some more before I pull the trigger.  It’s not really any more complicated than that… I don’t think… that and anxiety.  These matters don’t often turn out positively for me (nothing to do with timing or what I say or don’t say), so I don’t want to rush things and regret it…

[Whirling D]

And I’m not really in a lather.  A bit nervous, but not out of control.  Doing ok.

[Batya33]

Assume she is dating and trying to date others, that she has profiles on different sites and this is all fine, normal and what she should be doing.  (I pretty often had 2 meets in a day and one time had 3). There's no trigger to pull.  Simply meet in person ASAP -make a plan for next week or within a couple of days after she is supposed to be back.  That's not pulling a trigger.  You have more than enough information to meet this person for an hour and take a walk and or get a beverage.  

[boltnrun]

I'm truly sorry for the loss of your father.

And I have anxiety. I find that getting something I dread DONE is much better than stewing over it for hours and hours and days. 

You can't "maximize outcome" through a reply to a message. All you need to do is reply to her message agreeing to coffee. No "banter" needed. Simple. 

Or, you could stew. And set meaningless time frames such as insisting she must be online in order for you to reply to her message. She doesn't. 

But do whatever serves your purpose, whether it's an opportunity to meet a nice lady or forego that in favor of staying in your comfort zone of being alone and insisting no one wants to date you. Your choice. 

[Batya33]

I also am sorry for the loss of your father.  May his memory be for a blessing.

[Whirling D]

6 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I'm truly sorry for the loss of your father.

And I have anxiety. I find that getting something I dread DONE is much better than stewing over it for hours and hours and days. 

You can't "maximize outcome" through a reply to a message. All you need to do is reply to her message agreeing to coffee. No "banter" needed. Simple. 

Or, you could stew. And set meaningless time frames such as insisting she must be online in order for you to reply to her message. She doesn't. 

But do whatever serves your purpose, whether it's an opportunity to meet a nice lady or forego that in favor of staying in your comfort zone of being alone and insisting no one wants to date you. Your choice. 

Well, regardless of when I message her, I suspect the outcome won’t change.  We will either catch a vibe, and she’ll like me or she won’t.  Truthfully, I’m not holding a ton of hope.  A few hours of difference isn’t likely going to make much difference.