Online dating help

[Whirling D]

Thanks all… I’ve been traveling for the last couple of days, and had my dad’s service, so I haven’t been on here as much.

I am home now, where I have no family anywhere nearby, and have a lot of time to contemplate my navel… And write on here… 🙂

if you wonder how and why I spend so much time writing on here, it’s because there is no one around most of the time when I am here. I only work part time, and I have zero family anywhere within 500 miles of here, and I only have my daughter half the week, so the other half I pretty much have a lot of space to fill.  I don’t mind being by myself A lot of the time, given that I am a little bit of an introvert and shy, maybe even a loner, but sometimes a lot of space lends to a lot of negative thinking.

as for the topic of my income. I lost my career 5 1/2 years ago rather suddenly, but I had enough retirement accrued to basically pay my very expensive mortgage in a fairly expensive area of the US for the rest of my life. Everything else I have to earn, so I have a small music lesson business that I do five days a week for about three hours to earn the extra living income.

here’s my philosophy, should you be interested. I am approaching Social Security age, so I am no longer young. I have no idea how many years/months/weeks/days I will be breathing, and I have little interest in extending myself more than I want to, given I have no idea how much longer I will be alive. I’m trying not to take my time for granted. 

with that said, I have learned that things can be taken from us so quickly, and most of my life has been filled with one kind of loss after another, which I’m sure is not hugely unusual for many. I have also gotten to a point where I have, really, not a huge value for money. My time is infinitely more valuable to me than money. Therefore, I would rather work as little as possible, so I can spend my time doing the things that bring me greater satisfaction in life… And also the things that I have to do. 

for example, I have a fairly high maintenance property, with a 250 year old farmhouse that is in constant disrepair, and the land is filled with bushes, trees, grass, and every sort of environment that constantly needs work pretty much in all seasons. Just keeping my property and my house up-to-date and organized is a fair amount of work.

I also want to have time to be able to practice music, and try to grow my band. Those things should be at the top of the list, but they always slide down, due to house maintenance, and work obligations.

so, I have no shortage of things that I should be doing, and even a greater list of things that I want to be doing. Working for money is not high on that list.

both of my former lady friends, and even my ex spouse, constantly tried to “encourage“ me to expand my business or think of other ways to earn money, which in some ways, devalued my interest in working less. Not sure how relevant it is, but my dad was fully retired with 37 years in the Canadian military and pension when he was 57 years old, both my sister and my brother were fully retired with pensions by the time they were my age. I really don’t feel the need to feel guilty about not wanting to work at my age, but most of the time, because of the cultural values here, I think there are a lot of people that kind of look down on the fact that I only work part time, and I don’t really have an interest in working a lot more. 

of course, I may have to work more at some point in the not too distant future. Yes, I could start taking Social Security soon, but my Social Security income will be fairly minimal, because the state considers my teaching pension as social security and subtract that from my eligibility, so I literally will only be getting a couple hundred dollars a month for Social Security. Believe me, with my income, a couple of hundred is helpful, and may make the difference between breaking even in a month, or not. It certainly will not be enough for an extravagant lifestyle. 

of course, I could move to another region and probably live more comfortably. If I moved another hour or hour and a half away from the big city (I live about an hour outside of a major city in the Northeast), I could probably acquire a house that’s worth about half the value of mine, and that may bring my mortgage down quite a bit, but I don’t have a lot of equity in the house, for various reasons, so even moving to a less expensive area isn’t high on the list of things I could likely do, also given that I have my 15-year-old daughter here.

When I stop working, I have to sell this house. There’s no way around that. There’s no way I can afford living expenses after I stop working. Unless I did something radical, like sell half of my property, or take a roommate. I’ll manage that when I get there. I suspect I should be able to work in some capacity for another 10 years.

so, the last three girls I have been with didn’t really give a diddly squat about my income, but, of course, they all would hear me talk about it and complain, so they wanted to be helpful and try to “encourage“ me to do things to earn more money, which really felt more annoying than not, even though I think they were just trying to be somewhat maternal.

but for the most part, I try not to spend much mental energy worrying about money, but I do have to be practical and think about it a fair amount just to break even and to keep things moving forward, and that does come with a little bit of stress and anxiety, but I may be able to put that away fairly easily.

but, in terms of dating, I’m sure it weighs down on dating a little bit, considering that the average girl that I might like could very easily have a bias toward the kind of lifestyle that I have chosen. Many may not understand or care for the choices that I make. I think that lowers my partner potential, as well. As Bat said, Who wants to feel like they may have to take care of someone who may not be financially solvent?  My three last partners have been very generous in that regard, although I Really never had any reason to ask them for a single thing.

so, on to the doctor lady. I just got home from Canada, and I was just looking around my house thinking… What kind of doctor lady would possibly want to spend time in an old beat up farmhouse out in the country?

that’s why I think the red flags are valid, and not really just self-destructive thinking. I will go ahead and try to meet this lady, but I have to prepare myself for what I think will be inevitable disappointment, if the obvious surfaces, and she just learns quickly that she’s not crazy about my lifestyle, or even my looks, for that matter. I’ve spent almost my entire adult life battling being judged and dismissed because of these things, why should I think it would be any different this time around, particularly with a lady that could probably pick from any circle of nice guys that she wants?

as I have mentioned on other threads, I do believe that I am a nice guy, and I think I have many things that are of high value. I just don’t think that most women feel that way, and for what reason, you would have to ask them. I think it’s all the things I’ve already said… I’m not particularly tall, I’m kind of girly looking, and I probably project disinterest in cultural norms.

then there’s the conversations on here about how I worded my last question to her… I looked back on my all of my messages with her, and I really don’t think there’s any issue that should have been of concern to her, so if she decides not to pursue this, which I am not going to be at all surprised if that happens, it will have nothing to do with my wording, my banter, or my question.

I think we are talking about semantics with my wording, and I think it’s really not that relevant. Yes I said “maybe I can reach out to you at the end of the week to confirm?”

to me, anyone with a half a brain would see that as a valid question that warrants a response. You can argue it any which way you want, but a thoughtful interested person that is trying to engage someone into trying to perhaps get together should know better than to ignore something like that. That’s a red flag.  The only out on that one is if she just figured it wasn’t expected to have a response, and that it was a given that I would get back to her later to confirm. That’s not how I would read it, but obviously, not everybody reads things the way I do.

sorry for the long rant… I’m home by myself again and have lots of time to ruminate…  😂

also, I’m noticing that when I use voice commands on my iPad, it will not add capitals at the beginning of a paragraph… And I’m sick of going back and adding a capital to the beginning of each word of the paragraph… 😂

 

 

 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Whirling D said:

  I think the red flags are valid, and not really just self-destructive thinking. I will go ahead and try to meet this lady, but I have to prepare myself for what I think will be inevitable disappointment, 

It doesn't seem like this lady has "red flags", it seems like you're incompatible as far as work ethic, lifestyle and socioeconomic philosophies.

Anyone you date will figure out your lifestyle and socioeconomic philosophies sooner or later, so why not be upfront about to attract more compatible women and not worry about potential rejection?

Perhaps you could have more success with women you have more in common with?  

[Batya33]

40 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

t doesn't seem like this lady has "red flags", it seems like you're incompatible as far as work ethic, lifestyle and socioeconomic philosophies.

Great point.  I no longer "have to work" because of my investments and then also the matter of my husband's income/assets.  I went back to work part time at a 75% paycut from my former full time intense 15 year career pre-marriage and baby -meaning the salary is 75% less- obviously I'm also making less working part time.  For me -again -personally -it's not about the money.

My chosen career -I chose it right around my 15th bday because of a summer inernship experience, started in it at age 28 (did another career first) -is something I am mostly passionate about. I likely wouldn't work for free for -psychological reasons I guess?- but I'm not working for the money -it's very good for my brain, I feel like I'm contributing and not just to "the bottom line" and my husband is in a related field so we have that in common too.  Certainly I too factor in "time left" -we're in our mid-late 50s - but work is one thing that keeps me vital. 

I know for others work is just a job/purely to make $.  I wonder if you could find work that pays $ and also contributes to you feeling like you're spending your remaining time wisely and productively? 

Also I would have no issues at all going back to work full time if -my husband needed me to because of any hypothetical job situation he might encounter or heaven forbid if he couldn't work - and I might do so when our son goes off to college years from now.  (I will be 60-ish).  

I don't think of course you should change at all.  I like that you recognize how this -understandably and fairly -limits your dating pool -and I hope you don't go there with assuming that this means they want an affluent lifestyle. I didn't for sure.  Huge difference IMO between that and financial stability/work ethic values.

I also wanted to share we have a family friend in his 50s -long hair, aging musician who's no longer active as one and never had it as any viable career- he's a huge music fan though, underemployed his whole life and I don't think finished college -he's extremely bright.  I've known him for over 25 years and he has routinely had serious girlfriends (never married).  He moved back in with his dad around 5 years ago to be his main caregiver (apartment) and lives rent free. 

He then quit his low paying job to be the full time caregiver (for which he's paid something). He has a serious girlfriend the last 4 years or so who works at a big box retail store and not managerial -low pay.  She's a little younger than he is, attractive and pleasant and lives rent free in the family home too. 

She seems into him as did the other women.  There are women then who are totally cool with this sort of lifestyle- he did live on his own for years in small apartments and his girlfriends were in his age range, often employed, smart, attractive.  He's no adonis.  I guess he has that "something".  He's never done drugs, no alcohol or smoking, he's kind, smart, caring and quirky.  I really don't have more examples but your story made me think of his. He's never wanted a corporate job, either. 

[boltnrun]

On 4/23/2023 at 5:17 AM, Whirling D said:

I barely scrape together nickels and dimes to get by other than that.

There's a big difference between this and just wanting to live a simple lifestyle. Living a simple lifestyle is a choice. Scraping together nickels and dimes to afford even the basics seems like heading toward a financial crisis. It seems very precarious. 

As you said, what would you do if there was a major household or vehicle or medical expense? Would you have to rely on someone to give you money? 

I don't need to be involved with someone who lives an affluent lifestyle but I do prefer someone who is financially stable. It's just another factor to consider, especially since you're deliberately choosing to be financially precarious. 

[Whirling D]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It doesn't seem like this lady has "red flags", it seems like you're incompatible as far as work ethic, lifestyle and socioeconomic philosophies.

Anyone you date will figure out your lifestyle and socioeconomic philosophies sooner or later, so why not be upfront about to attract more compatible women and not worry about potential rejection?

Perhaps you could have more success with women you have more in common with?  

Well, duh… i’ve been saying this all along, wise. I suspect that this girl and I will just not be compatible. That’s why I call them red flags, and have been hesitant to feel a lot of optimism.

if it were as easy as “having more success with women I have more in common with“, I wouldn’t be on here whining incessantly like I have been… 😂

[Batya33]

I think the appropriate inquiry here is where should I look to find women to date who might not care about my financial situation and work related goals or even prefer them as they align with their lifestyle?  Or alternatively should I consider making changes to my situation and reevaluate my mindset about working in order to be increase my dating pool. Would I feel genuine and authentic and true to myself if I did so efc 

I imagine that women who live on communes or similar collective type environments would prefer someone with your mindset as long as this was something you were into as well. I have a friend who in her 20s was all set to pursue this lifestyle when she met her future husband through a personal ad. 
I don’t see red flags at all with this woman you might meet.  You’re very up front about who you are. The rest is up to her. 

[Whirling D]

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Great point.  I no longer "have to work" because of my investments and then also the matter of my husband's income/assets.  I went back to work part time at a 75% paycut from my former full time intense 15 year career pre-marriage and baby -meaning the salary is 75% less- obviously I'm also making less working part time.  For me -again -personally -it's not about the money.

My chosen career -I chose it right around my 15th bday because of a summer inernship experience, started in it at age 28 (did another career first) -is something I am mostly passionate about. I likely wouldn't work for free for -psychological reasons I guess?- but I'm not working for the money -it's very good for my brain, I feel like I'm contributing and not just to "the bottom line" and my husband is in a related field so we have that in common too.  Certainly I too factor in "time left" -we're in our mid-late 50s - but work is one thing that keeps me vital. 

I know for others work is just a job/purely to make $.  I wonder if you could find work that pays $ and also contributes to you feeling like you're spending your remaining time wisely and productively? 

Also I would have no issues at all going back to work full time if -my husband needed me to because of any hypothetical job situation he might encounter or heaven forbid if he couldn't work - and I might do so when our son goes off to college years from now.  (I will be 60-ish).  

I don't think of course you should change at all.  I like that you recognize how this -understandably and fairly -limits your dating pool -and I hope you don't go there with assuming that this means they want an affluent lifestyle. I didn't for sure.  Huge difference IMO between that and financial stability/work ethic values.

I also wanted to share we have a family friend in his 50s -long hair, aging musician who's no longer active as one and never had it as any viable career- he's a huge music fan though, underemployed his whole life and I don't think finished college -he's extremely bright.  I've known him for over 25 years and he has routinely had serious girlfriends (never married).  He moved back in with his dad around 5 years ago to be his main caregiver (apartment) and lives rent free. 

He then quit his low paying job to be the full time caregiver (for which he's paid something). He has a serious girlfriend the last 4 years or so who works at a big box retail store and not managerial -low pay.  She's a little younger than he is, attractive and pleasant and lives rent free in the family home too. 

She seems into him as did the other women.  There are women then who are totally cool with this sort of lifestyle- he did live on his own for years in small apartments and his girlfriends were in his age range, often employed, smart, attractive.  He's no adonis.  I guess he has that "something".  He's never done drugs, no alcohol or smoking, he's kind, smart, caring and quirky.  I really don't have more examples but your story made me think of his. He's never wanted a corporate job, either. 

interesting stories, thank you bat.  
 

doing music and taking care of my property and animals are the only two things that I truly believe will make me feel content right now. Will that change? Maybe. Perhaps if I get a part-time job somewhere I can meet more people. I thought about that. But then I know I will be restless because it will take me away from the other things that won’t get done… Like music and taking care of odds and ends. It has always been this nonstop conundrum.  
 

when I was a teacher, for almost 20 years, I had plenty of income to acquire all of the instruments and things that I have now, including my house. But I was absolutely exhausted every weekend, mentally drained all the time, and stressed out to the point where at the end of every summer, I would start to get depressed and panicked about having to go back. That’s no way for me to live.  

but there is a downside to the choices I’ve made, and that is that I can’t do a lot of the things that might be fun to do because of financial considerations. I am marginally OK with that. I do get to do a lot of the other things that bring me peace and tranquility. But I can’t go out to dinner really. I can’t go on bigger vacations. It’s a stretch for me to even go to Starbucks. 

I do have a small inheritance that I’ve had for the last several years as a back up, and I will have an inheritance within about the next 10 years coming in that will give me quite a bit of a buffer, but yes, I could find myself in a financial calamity at some point during the rest of my life, particularly related to healthcare.   Unlike most other countries in the world, if someone with limited means, like me, becomes ill or suffers a catastrophic injury, I would probably be sunk.  
 

my family members think I should move back to Canada for exactly that reason.  People don’t lose every penny they have due to illness is up there, unlike down here. I have a friend who is a diabetic, and he says that he spends hundreds of dollars a month on insulin. That would be a good chunk of my income.  Not to mention if I was actually injured. If I couldn’t work, I have no idea what I would do. My savings would go relatively quickly. I’d probably last a year or two before I was out of cash.  

The last two ladies that I have dated over the last five years had good jobs and didn’t seem to care that I didn’t have any money.  Of course, both of them occurred during the era of the pandemic, so I was getting a fair amount of governmental assistance from that.  They were very thoughtful with how they managed how I wanted to live, and I appreciated that.

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think the appropriate inquiry here is where should I look to find women to date who might not care about my financial situation and work related goals or even prefer them as they align with their lifestyle?  Or alternatively should I consider making changes to my situation and reevaluate my mindset about working in order to be increase my dating pool. Would I feel genuine and authentic and true to myself if I did so efc 

I imagine that women who live on communes or similar collective type environments would prefer someone with your mindset as long as this was something you were into as well. I have a friend who in her 20s was all set to pursue this lifestyle when she met her future husband through a personal ad. 
I don’t see red flags at all with this woman you might meet.  You’re very up front about who you are. The rest is up to her. 

Yeah, the rest will be up to her. I think I have to be careful not to reveal too much too soon, since it may be a bit overwhelming, but on the other hand… I don’t want to mislead this girl, either.

I have a sneaking feeling that I will be lucky if I get together with her at all. It’s just a feeling I get. And even if I do, I suspect it’s going to fizzle pretty quickly. I don’t typically jive well with people that are a bit avoidant, and if I put a label on it, I suspect she is avoidant.  
 

I am partially avoidant, but that’s mixed in with other relationship and attachment characteristics… I tend to jump into relationships really quickly, which comes from an anxious attachment style. Then, when things become routine, I show more avoidant characteristics. It’s not profound, but it’s easy to spot, and I can often tell when I am doing it and I am able to relate it to whomever I have been with.

as for finding communities with people who think more like I do, that’s one of the biggest detriment. I can’t figure out where that might be. My whole surrounding is either very affluent families, which I’ve talked about ad nausea, or struggling working class… I relate considerably better to the affluent families, and not so much the working class. But I don’t see really a balance there. 

my daughter was doing a mental health program much closer to the city up until a week and a half ago, and I was driving her there every morning… An hour and a bit away.

I started to notice that I missed the city, and the variety of people that I would see there at the coffee shop every day… I wanted to hang out there, because there was such a variety of people.

but I remember even living in the city prior to moving out to the country, I felt like I didn’t fit in there, either. Folks in the city seemed very fast paced, and very competitive, and since there’s so many people, almost everybody pretty much stayed entirely to themselves.

in many ways, it’s not really that different out in the country where I am, so I feel a little bit isolated either way.

I have probably told the story already, maybe even in this thread, about a house I lived in for 17 years much near the big city… it was a very compacted neighborhood with houses right on top of each other, and Street after Street of thick urban residential. The whole 17 years I was there, I only recognized and ever spoke with one person in the entire neighborhood. One. I don’t think I could even say I saw any other neighbor in any house, yet, if I looked out my front door, I could probably see 30 houses from my doorstep. Only one person could I identify and that I ever even said hello to. 17 years.  
 

where I live now in the country, I know most of the neighbors on my street of about 10 houses, but I have pretty much zero in common with any of them, other than to have chats out at the mailbox, and that kind of thing. I find it much nicer out here in that regard, and I enjoy my neighbors, we just don’t have anything in common.  I find I don’t seem to find people I have much in common with almost anywhere. I see them on Facebook, but they are married with kids, and busy with careers and soccer practices.

after I thought about this recently, I started to think how I would actually see this girl if we started to date. She lives an hour and 20 minutes away, and I work five afternoons a week, and have my kid two nights a week and every other weekend. Does that mean the only time I would be able to really see her would be every other weekend? That would certainly suck. If she works five days a week as a primary care physician, she wouldn’t be able to have the times of the day off that I do, which is morning and early afternoon. At least the girl I dated a couple of years ago who was a nurse practitioner had a variable schedule, and could often get together for breakfast in the morning, or something like that. It was fantastic. The last girl I dated for seven months lived in the town next-door, and that was great, as well.

sigh… 

[lostandhurt]

This will be my last post on this thread.

 I encourage you to go back through this thread and read what you have written. You espouse your lifestyle but then get bitter when women are not attracted to it, this includes financial stability.

 Wiseman has hit the nail on the head in my opinion. You have adopted the mindset that it is the women that are at fault for not wanting to be with a man like you instead of accepting responsibility for your own situation.  You decided to live like you do, you decided to keep your appearance the same and so you need to decide to accept that most of the women you wish to meet and get into a relationship with are simply not attracted to what you have to offer.  Once you accept this you can move away from the blame game and focus on the reality of your situation.  Then it is up to you to decide where to go from there.  Keep doing the same thing over and over again with the same results or make a change or stop trying.  

 I do wish you the very best in life and I think you have a lot of potential to achieve what you want but it isn't going to happen on the path you are on right now.

 Best wishes

 Lost   

[boltnrun]

Advocating and embracing a "simple" lifestyle and choosing to work as little as possible even though that puts you in a tenuous financial position and having to scrape for "nickels and dimes", while at the same time being only attracted to "affluent" women is a dichotomy. An "affluent" woman would not be likely to espouse a financially precarious lifestyle. And it's not a "red flag" on the part of the woman if she isn't willing to be involved with a man who chooses to be financially vulnerable. 

I used to date a guy who didn't have a job for a very different reason (he was a drug user and therefore couldn't pass a drug screening). He never had money. One time he asked if he could use my gas card to put some gas in the truck he was using (belonged to his dad). I gave the card to him and he filled up both tanks on his truck, to the tune of $150!! When I asked him to pay me back he said he had no money. After that I never again paid for anything for him or gave him money. I would go out and buy myself something to eat when he left the house because I'd be darned if I was going to spend my hard earned money supporting a perfectly able bodied grown man, especially when I had kids to support. Of course that relationship didn't last.

So you're making a conscious choice to live this financially precarious lifestyle. You have to be realistic that many women are not going to find this lifestyle attractive. If you want a woman who also espouses a low cost lifestyle it's probably best to not pursue "affluent", highly paid professional women who live in upscale neighborhoods. And I would at least put some kind of blurb in your dating profile, such as "prefers a simple, minimalist life". 

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, lostandhurt said:

This will be my last post on this thread.

 I encourage you to go back through this thread and read what you have written. You espouse your lifestyle but then get bitter when women are not attracted to it, this includes financial stability.

 Wiseman has hit the nail on the head in my opinion. You have adopted the mindset that it is the women that are at fault for not wanting to be with a man like you instead of accepting responsibility for your own situation.  You decided to live like you do, you decided to keep your appearance the same and so you need to decide to accept that most of the women you wish to meet and get into a relationship with are simply not attracted to what you have to offer.  Once you accept this you can move away from the blame game and focus on the reality of your situation.  Then it is up to you to decide where to go from there.  Keep doing the same thing over and over again with the same results or make a change or stop trying.  

 I do wish you the very best in life and I think you have a lot of potential to achieve what you want but it isn't going to happen on the path you are on right now.

 Best wishes

 Lost   

Lost. I have appreciated your postings, but this latest one tells me that it is you that has not been reading what I have been writing.

numerous times I have stated that throughout my adult life I have had long hair, I have had short hair, I have had good jobs, and I am where I am at now. It has made… not. One. Single. Difference. Did you miss that part of the post?  I have NEVER been able to attract many girls… at all. 

Why I am single likely has almost 0 to do with any of these factors.  OK so I will concede what some of you are saying, which is that it is a matter of getting out there to different places. I just can’t find those places that will make the difference.

In fact, I think when I did the experiment by replacing my photo on my dating site profile with a photo of an average looking fellow from somewhere else, I believe my hair would’ve been quite short then. What was the difference? It made the difference between getting zero messages from girls, to about 50, in about a six hour period.  That is inconclusive. No variables. Just the photo. That tells me that it’s how I look that is by far the predominant factor… My facial features, perhaps the fact that I put my height on the profiles… My youthful appearance and non-threatening demeanor. I don’t attract the kind of girls I find attractive hardly ever. At all. Hasn’t mattered about how long my hair is, or how much money I’ve made. I don’t know how many more times I can say that before it gets through.

Almost nobody that I have encountered as a potential date, or asked out in the last handful of years has had any idea what my financial income is. They would have no way to know until I tell them. So, for the most part, that wouldn’t be playing a part in the equation. 

And yes, I have every right to be annoyed that the average girl that is about my age, my educational level, and my background, usually find superficial reasons for rejection. They have that right, and I suppose I get it, but I have the right to be annoyed and pissed off at the world because of it.

But you know what, there are lots of us, so I’m in good company.  Maybe you are not in that company, I don’t know. But until you walk in someone’s shoes, you cannot possibly know how they feel.

I wish you the best, as well.

 

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Advocating and embracing a "simple" lifestyle and choosing to work as little as possible even though that puts you in a tenuous financial position and having to scrape for "nickels and dimes", while at the same time being only attracted to "affluent" women is a dichotomy. An "affluent" woman would not be likely to espouse a financially precarious lifestyle. And it's not a "red flag" on the part of the woman if she isn't willing to be involved with a man who chooses to be financially vulnerable. 

I used to date a guy who didn't have a job for a very different reason (he was a drug user and therefore couldn't pass a drug screening). He never had money. One time he asked if he could use my gas card to put some gas in the truck he was using (belonged to his dad). I gave the card to him and he filled up both tanks on his truck, to the tune of $150!! When I asked him to pay me back he said he had no money. After that I never again paid for anything for him or gave him money. I would go out and buy myself something to eat when he left the house because I'd be darned if I was going to spend my hard earned money supporting a perfectly able bodied grown man, especially when I had kids to support. Of course that relationship didn't last.

So you're making a conscious choice to live this financially precarious lifestyle. You have to be realistic that many women are not going to find this lifestyle attractive. If you want a woman who also espouses a low cost lifestyle it's probably best to not pursue "affluent", highly paid professional women who live in upscale neighborhoods. And I would at least put some kind of blurb in your dating profile, such as "prefers a simple, minimalist life". 

Well, my profile does have that feel to it. 

but, I do expect people to look at a little more deeply when they meet someone.  I almost universally convey myself in person as kind, friendly, smiley and sometimes even goofy.  That gets me almost nowhere. Unless I am the Life of the party, which I am not, I get virtually no attention here. That’s what people value where I am. Personality. I have more of a simple sweet personality, rather than aggressive and domineering, and trust me, those are the guys that are getting the attention here. 
 

so if I appear to be pissed off because decency and friendliness and a soft demeanor don’t attract any kind of real attention from nice girls, or anybody here, really, well then you would be correct.

but then again, I do see a lot of guys around here that have a lot of my characteristics that have fantastic wives with lots to offer that I would love to know. But they are considerably taller than I am and make more money than I do.  I can’t compete with that.  I’ve never been able to compete with that. I’ve been through every stage of look, dress, job status, and almost everything else.  It’s pretty much made almost 0 difference my whole entire adult life.

this doesn’t involve a lady, but I remember when I was about 30, and I was working as a waiter in a fairly nice restaurant. I was still relatively innocent, even at 30, and had a pretty soft demeanor… And there was this fellow that worked as a line cook who was on the rough side… I remember one time going in the kitchen and I had to ask him something on behalf of a guest, and he looked at me, and out of nowhere, he said something like… “I don’t like you, so you need to get out of my face. I don’t like ***s“ or something to that degree. I have had experiences like that and things like that happen over and over MY ENTIRE LIFE.  i’m not alone. I know that. But that doesn’t make it any easier when you are approaching senior citizenship, and you are still feeling that disrespect. Continuously.
 

That kind of makes the situation abundantly clear.  I don’t have a typical male alpha appearance, and that’s what ladies around here like.
 

I’m getting bored repeating myself.

[boltnrun]

You keep repeating the stories about your long hair and your lack of a beard or height. But my post you just quoted had nothing to do with your appearance.

Sure, maybe a really good looking guy could get away with being underemployed. My ex was a good looking guy. He could be nice and goofy. But bottom line, I could see no reason why I should have to pay to feed an able bodied man when he could have just gotten himself a darn job! 

12 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Well, my profile does have that feel to it. 

I don't know what this means.

Your response also doesn't address why you seem to be exclusively attracted to "affluent" women. Wouldn't that go against your "simple" lifestyle beliefs? An affluent woman would likely value a comfortable lifestyle and wouldn't want to have to "scrape for nickels and dimes". 

Anyway, I can see this is starting to get repetitive. So I'll repeat my hope that things go well for you. 

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

This will be my last post on this thread.

 I encourage you to go back through this thread and read what you have written. You espouse your lifestyle but then get bitter when women are not attracted to it, this includes financial stability.

 Wiseman has hit the nail on the head in my opinion. You have adopted the mindset that it is the women that are at fault for not wanting to be with a man like you instead of accepting responsibility for your own situation.  You decided to live like you do, you decided to keep your appearance the same and so you need to decide to accept that most of the women you wish to meet and get into a relationship with are simply not attracted to what you have to offer.  Once you accept this you can move away from the blame game and focus on the reality of your situation.  Then it is up to you to decide where to go from there.  Keep doing the same thing over and over again with the same results or make a change or stop trying.  

 I do wish you the very best in life and I think you have a lot of potential to achieve what you want but it isn't going to happen on the path you are on right now.

 Best wishes

 Lost   

 My final send off to you on this thread, lost will be this… You say that if I do the same thing I should expect the same result…

well how about this. In the last 40 years, I have gone through one transformation or “change” after another. I took the chance of being a small town naïve Canadian kid and moved to the big city. I was out classed by a country mile.

at 30 years old I embarked on starting my undergraduate, without taking a penny from anyone at a prestigious New England university.  I went directly onto graduate school and earned my teaching license. I was pretty much a full-time student throughout almost all of my 30s.

I didn’t get my first “professional“ job until I was in my early 40s. With short hair, I attracted a lawyer lady who became my wife. She openly stated that she misrepresented herself in the first year or two I knew her because she wanted me to marry her. After nine years, it was pretty clear it was not a good match.  I wasn’t having other opportunities beating down my door during that entire time.

So, for you to state and imply that you don’t think I am “changing“ enough to attract partners is rubbish. I’ve been through every change that a person my age can likely go through, and it has pretty much resulted in almost 0 real difference in the relationship department.   Just sayin.
 

[Whirling D]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

You keep repeating the stories about your long hair and your lack of a beard or height. But my post you just quoted had nothing to do with your appearance.

Sure, maybe a really good looking guy could get away with being underemployed. My ex was a good looking guy. He could be nice and goofy. But bottom line, I could see no reason why I should have to pay to feed an able bodied man when he could have just gotten himself a darn job! 

I don't know what this means.

Your response also doesn't address why you seem to be exclusively attracted to "affluent" women. Wouldn't that go against your "simple" lifestyle beliefs? An affluent woman would likely value a comfortable lifestyle and wouldn't want to have to "scrape for nickels and dimes". 

Anyway, I can see this is starting to get repetitive. So I'll repeat my hope that things go well for you. 

well, I think it depends on how you define affluent. As wise pointed out, the general idea of affluence is strictly about money. I am somewhat describing it as a way of life…

Most of the ladies who live around here are not only fairly well off financially, but they are also fairly smart and fairly bright. I am attracted to that.  Many are involved in the community, or have talents that they share out and about.

I live almost in between cultures where I do. The town over is where I do most of my work and meet most of the ladies that I described as being affluent. I feel like I fit in much better there in so many ways, intellectually, and with curiosity…

but I live next-door in a working class town, and I don’t find that the girls that I meet here, generally speaking, all that interesting. It doesn’t specifically have only to do with money… It’s a cultural thing. It’s an educational thing. It’s a curiosity thing.

I probably strike people as being somewhat working class, perhaps, probably because I don’t have this aura of status. I couldn’t tell you. But, in many ways I don’t fit in to the higher class culture, because I don’t look the part and I don’t earn the part, yet I don’t really fit into the working class culture, because I think I speak a different language, if you will.
 

 

 

[bluecastle]

49 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

but this latest one tells me that it is you that has not been reading what I have been writing.

I'm not going to go back and find every instance of this, but I do encourage you to reread this and other threads and note how often you offer these sorts of clarifications that boil down to a pretty simple point: you are right, others are wrong. It was the gist of the posts about your ex gf, along with those detailing your daughter and ex-wife. What's going on there, do you think? Seems like something worth reflecting on. 

38 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I do expect people to look at a little more deeply when they meet someone.

But do you do this? From where I sit you saw "physician" and "reserved" and drew up a surface level sketch of a human you don't know that removed almost all depth of character, reducing her to another red flag draped witch addicted to the Kool Aid of American capitalism and alpha meanies of the sort that you can't compete with. If you're going to dole that out, you've got to be able to take it. 

Remove all the noise from the interaction at the core of this thread and everything looks pretty positive to me. You were spinning out a bit, came here. People pointed out that playing games was maybe not the best move, and to instead reach out more genuinely with intention. In response a woman offered coffee and/or a FaceTime, while letting you know she's heading out of town. That all that doesn't bring some sense of comfort is a bit mystifying. 

[boltnrun]

So when an "affluent" woman chooses not to date you because of your lifestyle, your hair or your lack of a beard (these last two are questionable but I know you believe them to be true), she has "red flags". But when you dismiss "working class" women because they don't meet your standards or you don't feel they can relate to you, that's not a "red flag" on your part?

BTW, being "working class" doesn't mean intellectually unintelligent or uneducated. My family is very much working class and my son is a young man who is well read with a college degree and a solid career and enjoys art, music, cooking and documentaries on various topics. 

Anyway, I have nothing more to add so I wish you good luck. 

[Batya33]

Genuine question -why do you need many ladies attracted to you? (You bemoaned the fact that somehow you've never had a lot of women to choose from -maybe you think others have).  Why not just - the right one? Wouldn't that be enough for you? My mom was so pretty and my dad was a body builder hottie.  They met at ages 16 and 19.  My mom dated a little, my dad claimed he'd dated more and never gone "all the way" lol.  Neither of them needed lots of attention -they met, they clicked, they married.  For 62 years.  

[Whirling D]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Genuine question -why do you need many ladies attracted to you? (You bemoaned the fact that somehow you've never had a lot of women to choose from -maybe you think others have).  Why not just - the right one? Wouldn't that be enough for you? My mom was so pretty and my dad was a body builder hottie.  They met at ages 16 and 19.  My mom dated a little, my dad claimed he'd dated more and never gone "all the way" lol.  Neither of them needed lots of attention -they met, they clicked, they married.  For 62 years.  

Bat… All I am looking for is one. I’ve never felt, or said, or I think even implied, that I need a lot of people “attracted” to me.

I have never, ever, repeat, ever, had a series of girls interested in me, or chasing me. Ever.  That doesn’t equate to me needing lots of attention from girls.

 

 

[Batya33]

Just now, Whirling D said:

Bat… All I am looking for is one. I’ve never felt, or said, or I think even implied, that I need a lot of people “attracted” to me.

I have never, ever, repeat, ever, had a series of girls interested in me, or chasing me. Ever.  That doesn’t equate to me needing lots of attention from girls.

 

 

Why do you want any "girl" to chase you? Why do you want a series of girls interested in you if your goal is simply to find a good match? Do you think you'd be well matched with a "girl" who chased you or random "girls" interested in you?

[Whirling D]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

So when an "affluent" woman chooses not to date you because of your lifestyle, your hair or your lack of a beard (these last two are questionable but I know you believe them to be true), she has "red flags". But when you dismiss "working class" women because they don't meet your standards or you don't feel they can relate to you, that's not a "red flag" on your part?

BTW, being "working class" doesn't mean intellectually unintelligent or uneducated. My family is very much working class and my son is a young man who is well read with a college degree and a solid career and enjoys art, music, cooking and documentaries on various topics. 

Anyway, I have nothing more to add so I wish you good luck. 

I think you may be misconstruing, or overvaluing, my use of the term red flag. When I say that, I’m not saying the person is bad, or corrupt, or mean, I just mean that they are likely not going to be someone that either I find compatible, or they do with me. That’s all. It’s not meant to be some sort of personal judgment.

as for the term working class. Same. I don’t know how else to describe people, other than cultural language. I don’t know what to tell you. I know what I encounter in the town next-door, and I know what to tell you about the general population in my town. They are noticeably different. I think it comes down to education level, upbringing, I don’t know how you want to describe it, so I use the terms affluent versus working class. I’m sorry if that bothers you. 

Technically, I would probably be fit into that category by others. Big deal. It’s just the description. I was part of that “working class“ for quite a few years, so I kind of have seen the differences in what I am describing.

 

[Whirling D]

4 hours ago, bluecastle said:

I'm not going to go back and find every instance of this, but I do encourage you to reread this and other threads and note how often you offer these sorts of clarifications that boil down to a pretty simple point: you are right, others are wrong. It was the gist of the posts about your ex gf, along with those detailing your daughter and ex-wife. What's going on there, do you think? Seems like something worth reflecting on. 

But do you do this? From where I sit you saw "physician" and "reserved" and drew up a surface level sketch of a human you don't know that removed almost all depth of character, reducing her to another red flag draped witch addicted to the Kool Aid of American capitalism and alpha meanies of the sort that you can't compete with. If you're going to dole that out, you've got to be able to take it. 

Remove all the noise from the interaction at the core of this thread and everything looks pretty positive to me. You were spinning out a bit, came here. People pointed out that playing games was maybe not the best move, and to instead reach out more genuinely with intention. In response a woman offered coffee and/or a FaceTime, while letting you know she's heading out of town. That all that doesn't bring some sense of comfort is a bit mystifying. 

Well, because you are not me. And I am not you. If you were describing a situation that was troubling to you, I wouldn’t presume to know who you are, how you handle things, and make judgments about that publicly.

I feel pretty confident, and have been told this by many other people in my life, including multiple therapists, that I have a pretty good way of self analyzing myself, and even others for that matter. It comes from being a viewer of people and a watcher of people, rather than a participant, if that makes any sense, for many years.  There aren’t many things on this planet that I am actually pretty good at, but knowing how and why I do things is something I feel pretty good at. That doesn’t always mean I do the right things, but it means I can look back reflectively with a fair amount of clarity and honesty.

so, if I see people say things that I believe to not be true, I feel completely validated in saying so. You may disagree, and you have that right. Part of me cares, part of me doesn’t. Life goes on.  
 

I find value in hearing different perspectives whether I agree with them or not.  I read and listen to what everyone says on here, try to extract what I think is valuable, and make my own decisions. I do hear what you say on here. Just because you don’t think I do, or because I say something that might contradict it, doesn’t mean that I don’t value what you and others say on here.

[Whirling D]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Why do you want any "girl" to chase you? Why do you want a series of girls interested in you if your goal is simply to find a good match? Do you think you'd be well matched with a "girl" who chased you or random "girls" interested in you?

I don’t know where that’s coming from, I don’t remember ever saying I wanted some girl to chase me. That may just have been a figure of speech, I don’t know. I don’t care who chases who, and for the most part, I don’t even really care about a chase. What’s important to me is friendship, mutuality, attraction… etc

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Whirling D said:

I don’t know where that’s coming from, I don’t remember ever saying I wanted some girl to chase me. That may just have been a figure of speech, I don’t know. I don’t care who chases who, and for the most part, I don’t even really care about a chase. What’s important to me is friendship, mutuality, attraction… etc

I quoted it right above -you bemoaning the fact that you never had girls chasing you.  You don't want mutuality because you say you're attracted to women who are financially stable, have good jobs -even affluent -and you don't want that for yourself.  

[Whirling D]

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I quoted it right above -you bemoaning the fact that you never had girls chasing you.  You don't want mutuality because you say you're attracted to women who are financially stable, have good jobs -even affluent -and you don't want that for yourself.  

Bat, you are misunderstanding something that I am saying.

i’ve never said I am attracted to women who are financially stable and have good jobs. Those things don’t hold a huge amount of fascination for me.

I used the word affluent, and perhaps that may not be the proper word, but the girls that I typically am attracted to are usually fairly educated, and often times they do have good jobs and are financially stable, but that’s not what attracts me to them. I could really care less if they have a good job. I care much more that they have passion for what they do and they are OK with the differences that we might have.

and yes, I’ve spent several pages bemoaning that I don’t have girls chasing me, because I never have. Ever.  Never.  Nada.  Not an elementary school. Not through my teenage years, where I didn’t have a date the whole time, and not through most of my adulthood.   I have been single far more years of my life than I have been with a partner, and I’ve had several partners initially not want to date me, you know why? Because they weren’t attracted to me.  Two girls that I dated for two years each took a lot of convincing on my part for them to lower their guard. I wasn’t what they wanted. I knew that right from the beginning, but I was so smitten with these girls that I tried hard and tried hard and tried hard… And my sheer determination paid off. But ultimately, they couldn’t shake their interest in finding someone that met their image of what a partner should be.  Having something like that repeated multiple times as an adult has the capacity to mess with your head. It can often make you feel that there’s something wrong with you. I have many stories like that.  I’m sure tons of people do.

I told this story in a different thread about a new friend that I have that lives in my town. Sadly, his wife passed away last September, and by the middle of October he was having dates from a dating site, and by November he was dating a girl steadily that he really liked. 

is he considerably nicer than I am? You would have to ask the girls that are interested in him. Is he considerably better looking than I am? Again, you would have to ask the girls that are interested in him.  Is his profile any more engaging or interesting than mine? I suspect not. But the things that I can tell you… He’s at least 6 feet tall, and probably looks more masculine than I do.  

Yes,  I have a fear that many women will be, or have been, turned off by my long hair (I know this to be true), my lack of stable income (which I don’t know necessarily to be true), and my net worth, and I think those are factors, but I think the biggest factor is what I look like, and my height. Those factors together. We all know that there are guys with long hair that get lots of interest from women. But more often than not, actually, overwhelmingly so… those guys are taller or more broad shouldered than I am. Almost always. That goes with the basic laws of attraction that almost every dating coach will tell you… Women like to feel secure, and that often comes with height, masculine look, and a chiseled jaw line.

One may not lend any credence to online dating coaches, but all of them as a community couldn’t all be wrong at the same time.