Just want someone to listen

[brassrat]

So tonight I'm kicking my son and daughter-in-law out of our house.  It's the most painful thing I've ever done.  Our son and my wife are basically furious with each other, beyond therapy.  I'm between Scylla and Charybdis where in fact I lose no matter what.  Our son and daughter-in-law will most likely never again speak to my wife.  Our son blames my wife for not standing up for him around issues between our daughter and his wife.  I've tried my best--Lord know I have.  But here we are.  My wife has given me an ultimatum--her or them.   Our son is 32 years old, they're not making enough to buy a house on their own, and they haven't launched.  But the tension has become unbearable and it would be good I think to force them out and force them to rent a place for themselves because they can't afford a house.  I'm paying for a nice hotel for them through the end of the year, which should give them lots of time to find a place to rent until they get better jobs.

Anyway, it's hell.  Thanks for listening.

[Mammalyssa]

Thats really really tough. But I think you're doing the right thing. 32 years old and married... enough is enough. 

[Batya33]

I'm so sorry you are struggling.  What a tough situation.  Why can't they do a short term rental they pay for?

[catfeeder]

My heart goes out to you and your family. It sounds as though you're doing the right thing for all.

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, brassrat said:

.  Our son blames my wife for not standing up for him around issues between our daughter and his wife.  My wife has given me an ultimatum--her or them.   

What exactly is the composition of your household? Is your wife his mother and why are you at odds with her over this?

How long have your son and daughter in-law been living with you? Are there any other adult children living in the house? Do any of them pay rent? 

It's unclear why this is an ultimatum for you if you and your wife agree that your son and his wife should move out on their own.

What is the issue between your daughter and your son's wife? Or your son and your wife or you and your wife or you and your son? 

It seems rather straight forward to give them notice to move out on their own.  What's unclear is why you believe it's an "ultimatum" if you agree they need to be on their own.

[Kwothe28]

Its the unfortunate circumstance of 2 generations under the same roof. You have to tolerate your own children. But add daughter in law into mix and you get a different perspectives of people who just wont tolerate each other. I cant tell you how much marriages I know that were broken because "mother in law- daughter in law" arguments. My friend had a mother in law who has gone after her for folding wet clothes on wire to dry. She put her clothes on wire. Only for her mother in law to take the clothes and put it on wire on the different way because "she was doing it wrong". 

Anyway, its going to be OK. I have an uncle and aunt that also couldnt live with his parents. They went(with their 2 small kids) to live under rent. With only 1 plate a fork and a knife from their old home. In time they have bought the property and slowly built their own home. Sometimes its the best that if people cant agree they just go separate. Even if its immediate family. Its awfully nice of you to pay for Hotel until the get their own place. Let them go their own path, they will maybe make it on their own just fine.

[jul-els]

Sorry you have to go through this, but you’re doing the right thing. It will be the best for all concerned. 

[brassrat]

Thank you so much for all of your kind thoughts.

There are really two issues, just for everyone's understanding.  One is that they've gradually taken over the house and our son is the kind of person who won't take no for an answer.  We've bent over backwards for them--in part because we wanted to, and in part because he's so difficult when he gets a "no".  Basically they started just living in our son's bedroom and now they've taken over most of the rest of that floor.

The other part is that our daughter feels like they are sponging off of us and in addition couldn't deal with the general chaos after the DIL first moved in.  For awhile she was pleasant to both of them, then only to her brother, basically shunning my DIL.  Our son has used the word "bullying" to describe this behavior.  Things came to a head when we wanted the five of us to go on a trip.  My wife asked the DIL if she would go and she said yes because at the time she didn't feel she could say no.  We then approached the two of them and asked if they could deal with our daughter on the trip if she could be pleasant to them.  Our son took that to mean that we were blaming them for our daughter's behavior.  A horrible therapy session between our son, the DIL, my wife and myself in which my wife basically got shredded and I said some things about our daughter that I have come to regret.

My wife is pissed at me for not "having more of a backbone" and getting them out earlier; she's also pissed for what I said during therapy about our daughter (she's the mother of both) and about how I didn't defend her very well.  It came down to her saying "either they go or else I go stay with my brother until they do", at which point frankly our marriage would have been over.  It still might be, for all I know.

Anyway, thanks again for all your very, very kind comments and support.  IT MEANS A LOT TO ME.  If any of you want to continue the conversation here I'd be happy to do so.

 

[jul-els]

Yeah. You just need to move them out. They’ve overextended their welcome and brought a toxic environment and you have been enabling it. It’s time for you to enforce healthy boundaries and let them stand on their own. It should be pretty clear-cut to you now that that’s the solution. 

[greendots]

I'm sorry to hear this.

17 minutes ago, brassrat said:

It came down to her saying "either they go or else I go stay with my brother until they do", at which point frankly our marriage would have been over. 

What concerns me is that your wife would issue such an ultimatum. I understand that she wants your son and DIL out of the house asap, but there are other ways to approach this topic.

How old is your daughter?

[JohnLee]

32 and married, they should have moved out a long time ago. They can rent an apartment, a studio. You also have a single daughter in the house. Three women, the situation is too complicated to work out smoothly. Most cases with two women, mother-in-law and daughter-in-law don't work already.

[tattoobunnie]

Your son and DIL can rent a place.  They don't need a house.  They need to learn to budget and save.  Just because they're in their 30's does not mean they need a house.  If they can't afford and apartment now, there's no way they'll ever be able to afford a house, and that's not on you and not your problem.

It's cheaper to put that hotel money towards a full deposit for an apartment.

[boltnrun]

There can't be two women in a household if both of them believe the house is "theirs". It just creates nothing but conflict. I know from personal experience.

I'm sorry this is happening. Hopefully at some point the relationships can be salvaged.

[moodindigo91]

On 11/13/2022 at 10:08 AM, greendots said:

What concerns me is that your wife would issue such an ultimatum. I understand that she wants your son and DIL out of the house asap, but there are other ways to approach this topic.

I don't know. I don't think the ultimatum is really like "cut our son and his horrible daughter out of our lives entirely or we're getting divorced". The wife needs to put her foot down at some point if she wants to maintain her own sanity in her own home. I think the ultimatum is something more akin to "grow a pair of balls and start treating our son like the adult that he is or our marriage is going to be on the rocks". 

The son is 32 years old and married. I have questions. The main one being: Why are you getting married if you're not financially independent? The DIL is not entitled to the home and financial support of the son's parents, IMO. The son has overstayed his welcome. He is a grown man. He should have moved out a long time ago, especially if he was getting married. Also, OP, MOST people in their 20s-30s rent their primary residences. Where I live, hardly ANYONE at any age can afford to purchase a home. It's completely normal to be paying rent. What's abnormal is living under the roof of someone else's home with a partner while completely disrespecting the people who own the home and acting entitled to everything they own. What's abnormal is causing friction in your family who has done nothing but (in your own words) bend over backwards for them, and refusing to do anything to lessen the tension. What's abnormal is paying for these entitled people to live out of a nice hotel because they are too lazy or entitled to go out and pay for their own living expenses. 

I'm sorry OP but you've been enabling this type of behavior in your son for who knows how long and your wife and daughter are right. He will never grow up or change as long as you keep enabling this poor behavior. Paying for them to live in a hotel is part of that enabling. 

[mylolita]

13 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

Your son and DIL can rent a place.  They don't need a house.  They need to learn to budget and save.  Just because they're in their 30's does not mean they need a house.  If they can't afford and apartment now, there's no way they'll ever be able to afford a house, and that's not on you and not your problem.

It's cheaper to put that hotel money towards a full deposit for an apartment.

I was just thinking this! 
 

With the hotel fee, you are financially throwing your money away. It will be, I imagine, much more expensive than paying rent. If this money was a deposit for an apartment, you are paying towards an investment instead.

 

I still think, they should do this themselves! 

 

I understand you both wanted them out and out quick. I think it is beyond kind and accommodating you arranged and paid for somewhere for them to go!

 

The more I read these threads from this year and last, the more the same trends come up about 30 year olds not being independent and still living at home or getting huge help from parents. The 30 something year olds of today are nothing like the previous generation. I am starting to be ashamed, as a 32 year old myself. 
 

I think we need to collectively get it together and break off the teat! 
 

You did right to say enough is enough.

 

Best,

 

x

 

 

[brassrat]

HI all--Continued thanks for your support.  As a note, our daughter is not living here.  She moved out just after college and has been successfully living on her own since then, about 3/4 of a mile from us.

As it stands at the moment, our DIL as far as I know is still at her parents' house, and our son is living at some hotel, I guess, in our city so that he can continue his current job.

Totally agree that they should have only considered renting for awhile.  Part of the issue is that my DIL was physically abused when she was around 12 or so and as a result and as a result lives with a huge amount of fear.  It's been difficult for her to find a place that meets her needs.  And, truth be told, she has resisted getting therapy for it, at least on a continuing basis.

Well.  I will keep you all updated as things progress.  But again, I cannot even begin to say how much your thoughts have meant to me.

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, brassrat said:

As a note, our daughter is not living here.  She moved out just after college .

our DIL as far as I know is still at her parents' house, and our son is living at some hotel, I guess, in our city so that he can continue his current job.

So everyone is out now? Your son and daughter in law will have to manage their lives, jobs and housing on their own, which is good.  Your daughter is fine. So where is the conflict if the daughter in law went to her parents and your son is staying near his work for now? It seems to have resolved itself with their departure.

[Coily]

On multiple levels I don’t like how this came about.

Glad your son and daughter-in-law are out. They need to face up to the harshness of life, one of which is not having a cushy place to land financially. I know you wanted to help; but sadly they stunted thier personal growth.

I think you and your wife need to find ways to work together as a team more, than her just threatening to leave if she doesn’t get her way.  

[Mammalyssa]

I agree with Coily. Your wife needed to be having the conversation with you about how do 'we' approach this together to tell them they're no longer welcome to live in 'our' home. 

[Wiseman2]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:11 PM, brassrat said:

.  My wife has given me an ultimatum--her or them.   

Unfortunately, your wife and daughter seem correct on this issue. Allowing them to sponge off you and take over the house was unsustainable. It's sad your wife needed this ultimatum to finally get them out, but she's looking out for the two of you, your retirement and a return to peaceful living. Hopefully your relationship with your wife improves.

On 11/13/2022 at 12:45 PM, brassrat said:

 they started just living in our son's bedroom and now they've taken over most of the rest of that floor.

The other part is that our daughter feels like they are sponging off of us 

 

[catfeeder]

On 11/16/2022 at 6:35 PM, brassrat said:

DIL was physically abused when she was around 12 or so and as a result lives with a huge amount of fear.  It's been difficult for her to find a place that meets her needs.  And, truth be told, she has resisted getting therapy for it, at least on a continuing basis.

With all due respect to victims everywhere, there is no therapeutic value in being enabled to act like a brat. DIL's a grown woman capable of earning the money to install alarms and cameras and barriers to ensure her safety, as well as doing the work in ongoing treatment to normalize her life and avoid becoming a burden to others in her adulthood.

I agree that hotel money would be best spent on subsidizing security and first month's rent on a flat--as a 'take it or leave it' offering along with an invitation to use your clothes washer and dryer during Sunday brunches.

In other words, this doesn't need to be a bridge burner, it's merely a launching into the world that is long overdue.