What things have you offered in the bargaining stage of grief?

[1a1a]

Did your ex take you up on them? Did it work out well or did you regret it because you had compromised your wants and needs or some other reason?

How do you work out if you really mean the thing you say you want or if it is just bargaining?

[boltnrun]

35 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

Did your ex take you up on them? Did it work out well or did you regret it because you had compromised your wants and needs or some other reason?

How do you work out if you really mean the thing you say you want or if it is just bargaining?

Doesn't your ex want you to have a baby in the next year or so?

That's not something you can compromise on. If you're truly not ready to be a mother it's a bad idea to have a baby to try to "keep" someone you're clearly not compatible with (based on your previous threads about him). A baby is forever. You can't return it to the store if you change your mind.

If it's not about having a baby, what is it you're proposing to compromise your wants or needs on?

[catfeeder]

My bargaining was internal, not with an ex. I was well aware that such an attempt would only rob me of my self respect along with any degree of respect he still had for me.

The guy already mistreats you and habitually discards you. What's left to bargain with someone who would do that?

I hope you'll bargain with yourself to reach for your best dignity during this difficult time. You will thank yourself sooner AND later.

Head high, and hang in there.

[1a1a]

That’s exactly the thing. And that is correct I’m not ready. Last night when I heard that time frame I thought god no! And then this morning, the idea is still there. Build a nest, settle down. I feel like I’ve started down the path. I notice kids in a way I didn’t before (this predates the break up) and when I roll the idea around in my head it feels different (and I’m still not there by a long shot, I have a lot of questions/apprehensions. Which I guess the right match for me would be willing to work through those. And for me to want to have a kid with my ex, we’d have to do so much work to get better at making each other feel love care trust and respect, because there’s no way in the world id make that commitment where we are currently or even where we were before we broke up. ) There is a part of me that wants to nest.

I think about the great travel adventure instead, all that exploring and personal growth, and having to choose between the two paths it doesn’t look so enticing anymore. But that’s where the is this bargaining question comes in. 

[boltnrun]

Having a baby doesn't make the wrong relationship right. And it isn't a cure for incompatibility.

Plus, that's a lot of pressure to put on an innocent baby that didn't sign up to "save" a relationship.

What if you had the baby and the relationship ended anyway? You'd be responsible for raising this child for 18+ years.

Are you ready to give up your career and travel dreams to be a mother, possibly a single mother?

[DarkCh0c0]

@1a1awhy haven't you blocked this guy already? I'm sorry, but he has repeatedly treated you like trash and you keep allowing him to do so.

And, nothing comes good from settling for someone. Stick to your guns/standards and put yourself out there for the other more compatible loving men.

You don't need him... Respect yourself. Block him asap.

[greendots]

Desperation. Being the 'dumpee' meant I was willing to forgo some of my ideals in order to return to normalcy. I was desperate for some sense of normalcy. Well, fortunately this bargaining didn't work out.

When we bargain from a desperate position we're bound to lose. Bargaining from a position of strength gives us a better perspective.

I'd recommend you take some time for yourself. As I mentioned on another post: hang out with your friends, volunteer or join a club. Change the direction of your thoughts by having something else to focus on.

 

[Kwothe28]

It never works out well. Bargaining stage of grief is our way to "cope" and try to make it right even though we know its over. Its something on our way to acceptance. For example, this is you trying to say "If only I am ready for the baby he would stay and all would be better". Which there is no guarantee to happen as he left you 3 times and would more then likely change nothing. But its your way of negotiating how it maybe would be. 

Quote

Bargaining is a defense against the feelings of helplessness experienced after a loss. It happens when people struggle to accept the reality of the loss and the limits of their control over the situation.

Quote

Bargaining in the present: People may try to make a deal with themselves, or with a higher power for those who are spiritual or religious, under the condition that if they act in a particular way, they might feel better or the situation may improve.

It has nothing to do with him. Its just you trying to control something that is a lost cause by itself. Good news is that its one of the stages to "Acceptance". Which you do need in order to move on from him.

[1a1a]

Appreciating the perspectives.

I could be wrong. And this does feel like a sit back/wait and see/execute the action plan for having a robust and full life that the psychologist gave me and see if the feeling stays the same or changes kind of situation. But I’m not sure that I feel desperate about getting him back. Comparing it to other break ups and also our last two break ups, I seem to have regained equilibrium quicker. Don’t feel lonely at all. Busy life, abundant friend faces, good list of things to be doing in my free time. 

I’d say the stickiest hook (that I’m conscious of) is the idea of us parting ways when we still feel all that love and it could have been worked out with better communication. (Suppose if efforts to improve communication fall flat that is also an incompatibility). And the possibility that our wants can line up just he’s pulled the pin on it before I could ever get to that stage of trust (even though he has tried to grow trust in other ways that don’t really land with me). 

[greendots]

49 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

I’d say the stickiest hook (that I’m conscious of) is the idea of us parting ways when we still feel all that love and it could have been worked out with better communication. (Suppose if efforts to improve communication fall flat that is also an incompatibility). And the possibility that our wants can line up just he’s pulled the pin on it before I could ever get to that stage of trust (even though he has tried to grow trust in other ways that don’t really land with me).

You're finding ways to revive a connection that's broken or thinking of ways that you could've avoided the break-up. That's where I feel you're bargaining from a position of weakness. You haven't healed yet. Once you've fully gone through the whole stages of grief, and have worked on yourself, that's when you'll have gained the clarity needed over this relationship and thus you'd be in a better (stronger) position to bargain with him - were he to contact you again.

ETA: To clarify. You're rehashing the 'what if's' of a guy who has mistreated you. Which happens. But imagine another poster came to you for advice and said that their guy left them often. What would you tell them she should do?

On 9/2/2022 at 6:57 PM, 1a1a said:

This will be the third time in 10 months, he leaves me often.

[boltnrun]

9 hours ago, 1a1a said:

That’s exactly the thing.

Having a baby isn't a "thing". A baby is a living, breathing child that depends on you completely to feed, nurture, protect and care for him or her. Not a "thing" that you use to try to hold onto a man who's wrong for you.

Again, an 18+ year commitment. Are you prepared to give up your career and travel dreams to raise a child?

[gamon]

I’ve never offered anything the few times I’ve been the dumper. I walk away with slightly injured pride but I keep right on going and never turn around. 
 

Im not going to beg and plead to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with me and I suggest you do the same. 

[1a1a]

18 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Having a baby isn't a "thing". A baby is a living, breathing child that depends on you completely to feed, nurture, protect and care for him or her. Not a "thing" that you use to try to hold onto a man who's wrong for you.

Again, an 18+ year commitment. Are you prepared to give up your career and travel dreams to raise a child?

I’m aware, hence the not racing in.

[Rose Mosse]

9 hours ago, 1a1a said:

I’d say the stickiest hook (that I’m conscious of) is the idea of us parting ways when we still feel all that love and it could have been worked out with better communication. (Suppose if efforts to improve communication fall flat that is also an incompatibility). And the possibility that our wants can line up just he’s pulled the pin on it before I could ever get to that stage of trust (even though he has tried to grow trust in other ways that don’t really land with me). 

That tells you all you need to know if someone pulls away or ends a relationship. That person is not there and it speaks volumes. In times like this I halt the endless thoughts and do something else. It’s fine to reflect but not to the point where you may be constantly questioning what if on a dead end situation. 

[DarkCh0c0]

24 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

, an 18+ year commitment. Are you prepared to give up your career and travel dreams to raise a child?

Specially with someone who keeps breaking up with you @1a1a?

I would not have a child unless it's with a man who steps up the plate and is kind, loving, understanding, consistent, and stable. Raising a child means all hands on deck and means you will need a lot of support- not mixed messages from a partner who puts you down and bails on you.

[catfeeder]

Consider researching the term 'trauma bond'.

 One of the telltale signs is when one partner is punishing, withholding, rejecting, manipulative, and the other is willing to overlook the sickness of such mistreatment in favor of the 'love' they feel.

Unfortunately, the mistreatment just enlivens the intensity of the abused person's emotions, because they've never learned how to adopt any other experience of love beyond longing.

Healthy people may experience certain degrees of intensity over the course of a relationship, but the two foundational aspects of healthy love, developed over time, are trust and peace.

It doesn't mean healthy couples don't fight--they often challenge one another. But it's in the context of safety and security, where nobody's out to punish, humiliate, shut out or reject the other.

In fact, stonewalling as a method of dealing with conflict is THE most destructive tactic in fighting and is the number one behavior that put a marriage at risk for divorce.

This man is in not healthy enough to even consider marrying, much less to select as a coparent of an innocent child.

Your work is to decathect from this man to the degree that you can view him through healthy enough vision to be repulsed by his behavior.

This doesn't mean you can't love him enough to wish the best for him, but you'll be crystal clear about why you'll only want to do that silently and from far away.

[tattoobunnie]

I tried with no success, and still feel like a *** thinking about it.  Lived and learned though.  Sometimes you just have to hit the bottom to say you are done yourself.

[1a1a]

Keep coming back and reading, I think my thoughts are slowly shifting away from where they were. 

[Cherylyn]

I don't bargain because most of the time, compromises and concessions are unfair due to grudging agreements.  Either we're all in and on the same page or unhappiness will continue to brew and stew.

I've had greatest peace of mind from walking away.   I do not remain in incompatible relationships (or other relationships such as friendships, for example). 

[Batya33]

What you wrote about having a baby scared me on your behalf. You think your “noticing” of kids and slowly coming around to the idea is relevant to being at least feeling - feeling based on facts in your life - at least 100% ready - to be a parent and act in the best interests of a child.  It’s not.
 

It’s “positive “ to feel positive about kids you see around you just like it’s positive for me to see dogs around me that don’t automatically scare me as they did for several years after I was bitten. 
But it has almost nothing to do with being ready with your heart and soul to act in the best interests of your child. 
it’s relevant for getting ready to get a vaccine if you have needle phobia “I started noticing needles and not wanting to run screaming “. But no not for kids. No. It has to be much much more affirmative and active and feelings based on facts of your life to be ready. 
Yeah yeah no one is ever ready.  True. Which is why at least bring to the table that feeling of being ready and proof like your financial , physical and emotional well being.  And hopefully a partner with the same. 
Reality ?? I was about to start housework and dinner late afternoon yesterday and happened to check email. One puny email from the school.  
 

A minor situation with our son but warranting a 7:30am meeting the next morning. Nope. No zoom that night. Nope no phone call from home i was told.
so instead of my alarm at 5:05 it was at 4:50 and didn’t sleep well as was worried it wasn’t just minor - no details just the meeting.

Son had no clue what could be the issue. And of all days I had an 8:30 work meeting. And I had to fight my instincts to try and prep my son for the meeting and my instinct to be chatty and people pleasing. No.  

Showing a strong calm front to my son and a quiet calm front to the attendees with good eye contact and listening - at 7:30 and sleep deprived - was what I had to do.
 

I couldn’t rely on casual “noticing” or some similar low level passivity as you seem to in this parenting discussion. I had to be all hands on deck eyes on the prize take care of and advocate for my son and give a good impression to his new school. 

I did it. The situation was indeed minor. He was in no trouble it turned out. He is well liked there.
 

He needed me desperately this morning to be strong and calm as we got ready and walked to school in the fog.

He needed me to be his role  model for that as he was nervous.  I was really anxious and tired. And I couldn’t let myself indulge in those feelings. With little preparation only 12 hours after the email. I wanted my husband to get his rest for his job.  He would have attended with me. I said no - you need your rest.  

This is 15 hours of parenting a teen who is generally a good human.  What I did - the situation - entirely typical of parenting. Probably on the milder side. I don’t get a medal for this. It’s expected.

But I know I couldn’t do even this if I had your mindset about nudging yourself along to the idea of being a parent. Much less on your boyfriend’s timeline.  

That is why what you wrote scares me. You’re not ready. Most likely because you’re with the wrong guy - and/or you just don’t want to live acting in the best interests of a child. Which is totally fine and understandable. But then choose not to have a child. IMHO. 

[Batya33]

I wanted my husband back the first time I ended our engagement in the 90s and wanted him back within a month. I guess I was willing to risk a repeat of our issues because I missed him so so much.  Oh thank goodness he said no because he knew it wouldn’t  last past the first romantic month or so. And if we had tried again I bet we wouldn’t have reconnected all those years later - then there would have been too much past ickiness to overcome. 

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, 1a1a said:

Keep coming back and reading, I think my thoughts are slowly shifting away from where they were. 

Good. Consider viewing all of this as less about him, more about yourself.

Also consider that a most effective trick of slick salesmen is called "The Take Away."

They remove the deal from the table and suddenly their customer goes bonkers and snaps to grab it up.

Don't respond to a breakup reflexively. Consider whether you could REALLY want to spend your future with someone so cruel and withholding.

Practice envisioning being comforted by the kind of love you deserve, and make this habitual enough to keep you moving TOWARD that vision.

[Cherylyn]

6 hours ago, 1a1a said:

Keep coming back and reading, I think my thoughts are slowly shifting away from where they were. 

It's all coming to you now.   The light turned ON (in your brain).  💡

I remember not too long ago when I was filled with wishful thinking by questioning myself as to how I can create rapport?  I questioned if I should unnaturally and unreasonably exercise restraint in order to harmonize relationships.  I'm sure it's possible at the expense of selling your soul. ☹️  I would have to throw out the rule book of mutual respect altogether.  The question was:  Was I willing to do it?  Yes, I could.  Would I want to?  No, I don't feel like it because it would mean integrity and being treated with dignity didn't matter.  When all is said and done, some people want you to discard your principles in order to associate with them.  I can't do that anymore.  Principles DO MATTER.  Either be treated with habitual respect, grace and honor or the relationship is in trouble and it's not going to work.  If you're not treated preciously, there's nothing left in the relationship.  There are no ways around this.  It's so basic.   If they don't care about you, why should you expend the energy and heart to care for them?  It's unbalanced.  I don't want to be with people who are unkind to me.  It doesn't feel good. 

In the past, even though I was not to blame, I stupidly groveled to get back into the perpetrator's good graces.  I felt like an idiot but thought that's what it took to feel accepted, loved and cared for.  It worked for for a while until the next blip occurred which was a repeat of the previous offense.  The perpetrator wasn't about to receive yet another apology for what I'm NOT sorry for because I wasn't at fault.  I wasn't going to play that game again.  This time I dug my heels.  I'm very adamant.  It's either my way or the highway.  My way meaning either I'm treated fairly and with respect or I don't want to be with that person anymore because that person doesn't make me feel valued and important.  Any time a person doesn't treat you right, in their eyes, you are easily disposable and discarded like yesterday's trash.  I prefer to surround myself with those who have a moral compass.  Any other way is out of the question. 

[SooSad33]

On 9/15/2022 at 12:15 AM, DarkCh0c0 said:

he has repeatedly treated you like trash and you keep allowing him to do so.

And, nothing comes good from settling for someone. Stick to your guns/standards and put yourself out there for the other more compatible loving men.

You don't need him... Respect yourself.

I second this!

Respect yourself.  Open your eyes!

WHY would you even think twice of remaining involved ( again) with someone who has treated you like crap?  😕  - and any risk in this, why would you even want to bring a child into this as well?

 

On 9/15/2022 at 12:18 AM, greendots said:

When we bargain from a desperate position we're bound to lose. Bargaining from a position of strength gives us a better perspective.

I'd recommend you take some time for yourself. As I mentioned on another post: hang out with your friends, volunteer or join a club. Change the direction of your thoughts by having something else to focus on.

I agree with this as well.  YOU need to be more stable in order to 'reason' properly.  Not be confused, overwhelmed or desperate.

IMO, with reading all of this, with mentions of why you haven't blocked the guy yet, is concerning.

 

Is it maybe time to walk?  Time to focus on yourself, get better mentally & emotionally- be done with this one and start new someday?