Becoming left on the shelf

[Carnatic]

Hi,

I'm 38 years old now (hetero male) and since breaking up with my previous girlfriend, over 11 years ago now I've had next to no interest from women.

In that time I had nothing at all until I discovered tinder, then a couple of dates with extremely incompatible women, though on both occasions I really gave it a shot, encouraging a second date in the hope we might find some hint of compatability, a couple of dates which resulted in a 'thanks but you're not for me' text the following afternoon, and a random and brief FWB.

At this point I know I have to face facts, that some people just never find love, and there's little to suggest I can avoid that. I'm getting older and as I do what little appeal I ever had diminishes. I was always quite plain and overweight but now I am more so those things.

Women my age whose lifestyles are compatible with mine are becoming very rare. I must seem very immature to them, but then I guess I feel I haven't lived yet and I'm not interested in settling down and saving for my retirement.

Time alone makes me increasingly less charming too, more socially awkward, probably more needy if I'm totally honest. I'm fairly certain I can avoid going down any of the 'bad' paths toward misogyny and bitterness that lonely men can be drawn down. One thing at least that improves with age is you become more confident of your own ideals and your own concepts of right and wrong and less susceptible to snake oil peddlers who try and tell you they have the answers to your problems if you only learn to hate the right people. Still though, I know I'm pretty dull and pedestrian to be around and the fact I'm even going to the lengths to say this means I'm pretty self pitying.

I don't know if there's really a question at at the end of all this. It's just a lot to adjust to and I don't know how. I still keep clinging to the vain hope that I will either meet someone and have a relationship, or at least have a fling some day.

I'm coming off meds and going through a bit of an emotional phase too. I would never have been moved to write something like this a couple of months ago or this time last year.

[Pleasedonot5]

OP, you have described yourself as plain and overweight, dull and pedestrian. If those factors be true, well, they do not help your chances. Additionally, implicit in your descriptors (and dating experiences) is low self-esteem. Potential partners are attracted to confidence and put off by low self-esteem and desperate behavior. People can pick up on these attitudes even if you think you are hiding them well.

I think working on the traits you do not like would help two-fold, as a practical matter. One, because you would be actually making positive changes. Two, because making these improvements would increase your self-esteem and confidence. 

A couple of questions for you, OP:

Why do you think you are plain-looking? What does this mean? Could this be fixed with an awesome haircut and some new clothes/shoes?

Do you or can you go to the gym? A gym membership at Planet Fitness around where I live (U.S.) costs around $10 per month. It is nice inside and it is relatively inexpensive as far as gym memberships go. Or, if you are not feeling a gym membership at this point, consider listening to  podcast and walking a couple miles each day. You burn over 100 calories per mile (the more you weigh, the more calories you burn per mile). 

What are your hobbies, OP? Do you have any hobbies which include social interaction? My best relationships to date have started either (1) because a friend introduced us, or (2) because we met doing a hobby we both enjoyed (in my case, ballroom and latin dance).

You have listed out some items to work on. Knowing is half the battle. Now, I vote you make a plan to work on those items and then take action.

I hope this helps. 

[catfeeder]

I think you're using those 'couple of dates' as a misguided reason to bomb yourself.

Most people are NOT our match. This is true for everyone.

Chemistry is a lottery. Finding love is a needle in the haystack.

Dating isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

Using dating sites to go on full dates is a lot of financial and emotional pressure. Instead, consider using those sites as screening devices to set up 'quick meets' over coffee to check one another out.

Set up quick coffee meets on your way home from work. If you get stood up, just take your coffee with you, and nothing is lost.

Agree to meet each person for about 20 to 30 minutes, neither can corner the other on the spot for a 'real' date, but either can invite the other afterward. If the answer is yes, the other responds, and if not, no response is necessary. This takes squirmy rejection stuff off the table.

You have unique value. The idea is to meet THE person who can view you through the right lens--and that will NOT be most people.

Head high, and don't write yourself off, or you will self-fulfill that prophesy.

 

[Carnatic]

6 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I think you're using those 'couple of dates' as a misguided reason to bomb yourself.

Most people are NOT our match. This is true for everyone.

Chemistry is a lottery. Finding love is a needle in the haystack.

Dating isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

Using dating sites to go on full dates is a lot of financial and emotional pressure. Instead, consider using those sites as screening devices to set up 'quick meets' over coffee to check one another out.

Set up quick coffee meets on your way home from work. If you get stood up, just take your coffee with you, and nothing is lost.

Agree to meet each person for about 20 to 30 minutes, neither can corner the other on the spot for a 'real' date, but either can invite the other afterward. If the answer is yes, the other responds, and if not, no response is necessary. This takes squirmy rejection stuff off the table.

You have unique value. The idea is to meet THE person who can view you through the right lens--and that will NOT be most people.

Head high, and don't write yourself off, or you will self-fulfill that prophesy.

 

Thank you... unfortunately the reason why I use those 'couple of dates' as a reason to bomb myself is because they're the only ones I've had this last decade. I will take your advice on board next time I am in a situation where a woman is potentially interested in me as it sounds like a pretty good idea... I still expect no more than a couple of, I guess we call them meets rather than dates now, in the next decade because this is how rare women who would give me a second look are.

I'm realistic about this y'know. I don't want to turn bitter, I don't want to blame women for not being interested in me like some guys do. I used to post on this site ages ago and though the words we now have to describe them weren't around then, words I won't use here lest I derail my own topic or drag up unpleasantness for people, there were a lot of 'well I'm a nice guy therefore woman are all shallow' posts. Women, like men or anyone of any gender are allowed to only seek romance after feeling an initial attraction to someone and if you do tell yourself 'well I'm settling' when dating someone you consider unattractive, well are you any better than those who would just turn those people down? I've seen those sort of relationships turn toxic, where as soon as a bump in the road is hit, one of the people int he relationship suddenly lets it be known that 'I settled for you, I could have done so much better so the least you can do is be more grateful'... I know because I was in a relationship like that.

Sorry, I did go off on a bit of a tangent... it's good advice, it really is and it's definitely something I'll think to do if and when I next meet a women who expresses any interest.

[MissCanuck]

9 hours ago, Carnatic said:

Women my age whose lifestyles are compatible with mine are becoming very rare.

Can you elaborate on what sort of lifestyle you lead? 

 

[Carnatic]

7 hours ago, Pleasedonot5 said:

OP, you have described yourself as plain and overweight, dull and pedestrian. If those factors be true, well, they do not help your chances. Additionally, implicit in your descriptors (and dating experiences) is low self-esteem. Potential partners are attracted to confidence and put off by low self-esteem and desperate behavior. People can pick up on these attitudes even if you think you are hiding them well.

I think working on the traits you do not like would help two-fold, as a practical matter. One, because you would be actually making positive changes. Two, because making these improvements would increase your self-esteem and confidence. 

A couple of questions for you, OP:

Why do you think you are plain-looking? What does this mean? Could this be fixed with an awesome haircut and some new clothes/shoes?

Do you or can you go to the gym? A gym membership at Planet Fitness around where I live (U.S.) costs around $10 per month. It is nice inside and it is relatively inexpensive as far as gym memberships go. Or, if you are not feeling a gym membership at this point, consider listening to  podcast and walking a couple miles each day. You burn over 100 calories per mile (the more you weigh, the more calories you burn per mile). 

What are your hobbies, OP? Do you have any hobbies which include social interaction? My best relationships to date have started either (1) because a friend introduced us, or (2) because we met doing a hobby we both enjoyed (in my case, ballroom and latin dance).

You have listed out some items to work on. Knowing is half the battle. Now, I vote you make a plan to work on those items and then take action.

I hope this helps. 

Thank you for your reply.

1) I don't think I'm plain-looking, I know I'm plain-looking... whenever I have been in a situation where my attractiveness is judged, it has been judged poorly... whether it's teenage girls at school rating their schoolmates out of 10, things my ex said, off the cuff comments from other guys or simply whether I get any matches on dating sites. I guess I can see for myself when I look in the mirror, I know what attractive looks like and it doesn't look like me. Part two of this question is that I hope I can do something clothes-wise but for bigger guys it's pretty difficult to buy nice clothes, all the clothes I like don't go up to my size sadly.

2) Currently I do walk around three miles most days and I have an exercise bike at home... much rather than that go to a gym... for now at least, which I use for half an hour a day. I have some weights as well which I'm thinking of dusting off. I'm not hopeful of seeing changes that can actually overcome my body's natural repulsiveness, but there are physical and mental health benefits to exercise. I went through a spell that lasted about a year during which I was spending an hour in the gym every weekday evening, just going round all the machines, and walking everywhere (include to the gym, but I didn't have a car so if a place I wanted to go was within a two or three mile radius my mode of transport was walking) and as a student back then I couldn't afford to indulge food-wise. I wasn't following a strictly calorie controlled diet but it was a simple diet with only the occasional snack. I did feel quite good during this spell, and was probably the lightest I've ever been. I was still fat though and I was still classed as morbidly obese if I was to calculate my BMI.

I've been on two or three similar 'health-kick' spells in my life... one coincided with my previous relationship... my ex still made sure though that I, and everyone else after we broke up, knew that I was fat. I might be about to go on another one now that lockdown is over and I can get about the country again... I don't expect it to result in me not being fat though.

3) I do have a fair few hobbies, a lot of them though don't include any social interaction... or at least traditionally didn't but the ability to live-stream on places like Twitch and YouTube has made these hobbies more social (and I am starting to do this). Those that do include social interaction typically are only good places to meet... well lets just sat that in almost all the societies and clubs I am a member of, I am the youngest person in the club by a good twenty years. Photography is the main one since that is also my job, and while there are certainly plenty of young photographers out there, as with most things, being in a club or going to a place to practice your hobby is seen as being something for retirees. Most of my social interaction comes in the standard form of going to bars and to live music, and I do have a good circle of friends at least.

Thanks... sorry I keep rambling on, it is good to answer questions though.

[Carnatic]

25 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Can you elaborate on what sort of lifestyle you lead? 

 

Well, I live in a city centre flat, which I rent... and I work freelance, the so-called 'gig economy' which means low paid with no job security or ability to save. I like to meet friends in bars and in music venues, I travel to visit friends in other cities and sofa-surf when I do... or let them sofa-surf with me. I guess it's all standard millennial stuff, but I'm at the older end of the age-range considered 'millennial'.

I guess it sounds quite judgemental that we're going to be incompatable, but a lot of the women I meet around my age are just in quite a different place in their lives. A good proportion of them have teenage kids, are at an advanced stage in quite responsible and serious careers, and own property, living in the suburbs. I honestly don't have a lot to go on besides their tinder profiles but a lot of women my age are quite clear on those that they want a grown-up man, so when I say we're incompatible I'm talking about women who make it clear in their tinder profile 'swipe left if...'

[MissCanuck]

I'm 40 myself, so I'm in your age bracket. 

I'm not single, but if I were, I would be looking for a man with some degree of responsibility and establishment. Owning a home and having a high-paying job would not be absolute necessities but I would be searching for someone who knew what he wanted in life and had an idea of how to achieve it. I would not be particularly interested in a man who seemed a too adrift and coasting through at my age, without any real sense of direction or purpose. 

So, I would start there: what are you future goals? How do you intend to get there? 

5 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

I like to meet friends in bars and in music venues, I travel to visit friends in other cities and sofa-surf when I do... or let them sofa-surf with me.

This is not unusual for our ages, OP. I know plenty of people around my age who do such things, whether single or committed. I live abroad and when friends do happen to venture to my side of the pond, I open my home to them. Not weeks and weeks, but a couple days or weeks here and there. I don't see the issue with that. 

[Kwothe28]

44 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

I guess it sounds quite judgemental that we're going to be incompatable, but a lot of the women I meet around my age are just in quite a different place in their lives.

That doesnt mean a thing. What, well, people in general, are looking for, have to offer and what they settle are 3 totally different things sometimes. Sometimes they offer not that much but looking high, sometimes they offer a lot but settle for less, its highly individual and you never know.

However, I do think you should be comfortable to at least know you are offering something of quality. If you dont believe that you do, women wont believe it too. So, expand on yourself. You mentioned freelancing, there are lots of people who earn quite nicely on it. Get some courses on what you do, lots of them are even free. Raise your rates in time as you get experience and get to at least decent levels of earnings. Same with obesity, go to nutricionist, get some program and stick to it. You need to believe that you can offer something to those women and to be confident enough to approach them, talk, take them out etc. And you need to work on yourself for that. Because at the state of the things you describe, no wonder your matches are not good in general.

[Batya33]

The best way I know of to meet someone especially in your 30s and how you described is -when it's covid-safe -volunteer backstage at a community theater (church or otherwise).  I know of several couples who met this way, I know them personally, I wasn't involved but my then boyfriend was (and he even met someone that way when we were broken up).  Or take swing dancing lessons.  I started dating my future husband (part deux after we broke up for years) right before I turned 39. Yes I'd been dating up a storm for years and was in a good head space but that's how old I was.  Not left on the shelf.Good luck!

[DarkCh0c0]

3 hours ago, Carnatic said:

Well, I live in a city centre flat, which I rent... and I work freelance, the so-called 'gig economy' which means low paid with no job security or ability to save.

I work as a freelancer and what you've mentioned is not true. If you are low paid with little job security, then you need to renovate your business plan; aka increase your rates and work on how you present your skills and expertise to new clients. You can do it. Don't let it hold you down like that.

[DarkCh0c0]

3 hours ago, Carnatic said:

a lot of women my age are quite clear on those that they want a grown-up man

What do you consider yourself to be then?

[DarkCh0c0]

3 hours ago, Carnatic said:

Most of my social interaction comes in the standard form of going to bars and to live music, and I do have a good circle of friends at least.

Have you tried approaching women at the bar? That's one way to start.

[DarkCh0c0]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

However, I do think you should be comfortable to at least know you are offering something of quality. If you dont believe that you do, women wont believe it too. So, expand on yourself. You mentioned freelancing, there are lots of people who earn quite nicely on it. Get some courses on what you do, lots of them are even free. Raise your rates in time as you get experience and get to at least decent levels of earnings. Same with obesity, go to nutricionist, get some program and stick to it. You need to believe that you can offer something to those women and to be confident enough to approach them, talk, take them out etc. And you need to work on yourself for that. Because at the state of the things you describe, no wonder your matches are not good in general.

I agree. OP you need to think better of yourself, before others do so.

And, you don't need people's validation to be whoever you want to be. But, are you now where you want to be in life? What can bring you joy? You need to be happy by yourself before you seek out partners- and that includes a working on having a good self-esteem, a thicker skin, and enjoying your life. If you live the life you lead, it doesn't matter what other people say. The right fit will come along the way so long you put yourself out there.

You're well aware of what you'd like work on, so you're half way there.

[Carnatic]

I earn enough to pay my rent, my bills and to do what I want to do in life... I don't want to give the impression that my financial situation is a major obstacle to getting where I want to be in life. It could be better sure but it's not a huge deal. The last couple of years have been tough for us all, for obvious reasons, and many freelancers have lost a huge chunk of their clientele and are only now tenatively maybe getting one or two of those back. I'd rather not derail this thread with a deep dive into my finances if that's OK with everyone.

Also, I presume Canuck is from Canada, I don't know what the situation is like there, but I'm from the UK and over here property is very expensive and most people under the age of 35, or in my line of work (or indeed most lines of work) will never own property... it just is what it is, but at the same time it creates a bit of a demographic divide there are lots of people over the age of 35... or in more highly paid lines of work for whom if you don't own property then you have failed at life.

I tend to assume that if someone feels importantly enough about the fact they earn big and own their own home to put it in their dating profile then they're probably of the demographic that believes it home ownership is an essential part of being a grown-up mature adult rather than the demographic who aren't even thinking about mortgages and all that.

I could have probably left all the stuff about lifestyle and economic situation out of my post but it's just a small thing that I believe further reduces the pool of women who might be interested in me. There are plenty of women out there who don't care whether you own your own home or have kids or a steady job, even if they do themselves, but when the number of women who might be attracted to you in the first place is just maybe one or two out of all the women you meet in a year, then, I just wanted to make a point I guess that there is an accumulation of small reasons why I lack appeal.

[Carnatic]

3 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

What do you consider yourself to be then?

I consider myself to be grown up... but when someone words their dating profile in such a way I feel like I can guess they won't consider me to be grown up.

[Carnatic]

3 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Have you tried approaching women at the bar? That's one way to start.

I feel like that's really cringe... I know some guys can do it naturally but I generally feel that girls out in a bar want to be left alone to enjoy their night and not hit on by guys, especially not guys like me. I'm sure girls are getting ready to go out thinking 'I really hope some sketchy dude tries it on with me tonight'.

[smackie9]

depends where in Canada. Where I live you can't get an apartment for under half a million.

[LaHermes]

14 hours ago, Pleasedonot5 said:

OP, you have described yourself as plain and overweight, dull and pedestrian. If those factors be true, well, they do not help your chances. Additionally, implicit in your descriptors (and dating experiences) is low self-esteem. Potential partners are attracted to confidence and put off by low self-esteem and desperate behavior. People can pick up on these attitudes even if you think you are hiding them well.

I think working on the traits you do not like would help two-fold, as a practical matter. One, because you would be actually making positive changes. Two, because making these improvements would increase your self-esteem and confidence. 

I agree with PDN.  

 

17 hours ago, Carnatic said:

I was always quite plain and overweight but now I am more so those things.

I suppose, OP, that if only from a health perspective it would be good to address the overweight issue. Some day, someone is going to explain to me what "plain" means (I am being serious here).  One person's plain can be another's beautiful.  

I am "over here" too, OP. Yes, the price of housing, particularly in certain regions, has become exorbitant.  Certainly the recession, outside investors and now the downturn caused by Covid has made it indeed difficult for young people to strive towards owning a home. 

[DarkCh0c0]

55 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

feel like that's really cringe... I know some guys can do it naturally but I generally feel that girls out in a bar want to be left alone to enjoy their night and not hit on by guys, especially not guys like me. I'm sure girls are getting ready to go out thinking 'I really hope some sketchy dude tries it on with me tonight

Okay.

1. You aren't a sketchy dude. Stop the self-pity talk and believe in yourself. Everyone has something to offer and so do you.

2. I'm a woman and I wouldn't mind at all being approached by men at bars! That's partially what bars are made for: socializing and getting to know others.

3. Have you tried therapy/books to help you with your self-esteem? Do you have any idea when it started? Childhood/parents/school/...?

[Rose Mosse]

Volunteering and going to public events are a good way to meet others. Check Meetup.com in your area. Don't bother with the dating apps and certainly not Tinder. 

[Carnatic]

I actually don't feel as though I have an issue with self esteem. I'm realistic certaintly but not every guy is good to look at, I don't see it as an issue that I'm aware of this. I do worry a little bit that I might have too high an opinion of myself, because subconsciously I feel like I'm lying when I accept my shortcomings, as though I resist simply saying to myself, yeah you're not much to look at, and you're not exciting or interesting in any way, just be happy with who you are.

Like I said before, coming off meds has left me a bit on the emotional and weepy side.

[Carnatic]

2 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Okay.

1. You aren't a sketchy dude. Stop the self-pity talk and believe in yourself. Everyone has something to offer and so do you.

2. I'm a woman and I wouldn't mind at all being approached by men at bars! That's partially what bars are made for: socializing and getting to know others.

3. Have you tried therapy/books to help you with your self-esteem? Do you have any idea when it started? Childhood/parents/school/...?

Thanks I guess, I'm just trying to do the right thing. When I was younger every man used to believe that women only went out in order to have guys hit on them. In truth I wouldn't know how to hit on anyone so I don't expect I'm capable of doing it in a non sketchy way.

[Carnatic]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

The best way I know of to meet someone especially in your 30s and how you described is -when it's covid-safe -volunteer backstage at a community theater (church or otherwise).  I know of several couples who met this way, I know them personally, I wasn't involved but my then boyfriend was (and he even met someone that way when we were broken up).  Or take swing dancing lessons.  I started dating my future husband (part deux after we broke up for years) right before I turned 39. Yes I'd been dating up a storm for years and was in a good head space but that's how old I was.  Not left on the shelf.Good luck!

I remember you being active on this site, maybe ten, or even fifteen years ago. I'm sure you don't remember me but it's good to see you're still about and offering advice.

[DarkCh0c0]

16 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

. In truth I wouldn't know how to hit on anyone so I don't expect I'm capable of doing it in a non sketchy way.

Could you read some articles online on how to do so? There's plenty of good advice. You can learn a few lines/ how to, but you also need to be yourself and like it. Also, you need to be ready to take no -and yes- for an answer.

If you don't start acting on all of what you've listed, don't be surprised if you come back to this forum 10 years later to write the same things.

But, I don't think that's why posted here. You just need to get the ball rolling.