How Do You Balance Life with Kids?

[Seraphim]

1 minute ago, Jibralta said:

Oh, I agree heartily. I think a good marriage born of a teenage romance is the exception to the rule. 

Absolutely. 
 

And I think if my mom had known how mentally ill he was and had not been virtually a child she could have figured out that this would never have worked and would not of tried so hard or so long. But religion came into that as well. Once she was married she was told that was it you were married for life. It led to a lot of people being abused. It also lead to my mom leaving her religion because it condemned her to a life with an abusive person. 
 

Her influences of childhood and religion  though kept her trying to reunite with him over the decades and it never worked. 

[Batya33]

11 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Batya sometimes I wonder at your replies.  You've said before that you weren't the right person in order to appreciate the right person.  

But I get it, you avoided marriage to the wrong person.  It's still avoiding marriage (generalized).  It's still, "right."  Even though you're also right you avoided it because you hadn't "found," the right person yet.

And yet last week you were talking about how you hadn't, "become," the right person yet.

It's actually really confusing sometimes to talk to you due to all these strange things.  But I love your points generally and we agree on most things.

It may be the online dynamic.  It's harder to communicate effectively online.

No I wasn't avoiding the institution of marriage just like I'm not avoiding having friends when I decide not to be friends with a particular person -are you? Yes, I had to become the right person to find the right person.  I always wanted to be married. I chose being single over settling or marrying the wrong person.  I know others who made a different choice and to me perhaps they were the ones avoiding marriage -meaning -if you knowingly settle out of desperation the marriage is likely to fail - so maybe in your head it's an avoidance of marriage- you can say "see I held my nose and said my vows so obviously I wanted to be married" - well, yes but -hmmmmm

Yes typing has its limits for sure.  

I know of three teen romances that basically worked out -in one case my mom although had she understood about mental illness I'm just not sure if she would have married him.  This was in the 1950s.  They were married 62 years until she had an affair with a hottie  JUST KIDDING.  He passed away.  My high school friend's teen romance -I was her maid of honor -still seems to be going strong after over 30 years.  My dear friend's daughter married at 17 and has been married about 8 years, two small kids- he is maybe 2 years older? Seems very happy.  

[Batya33]

I didn't wait for Mr. Perfect. I'm not married to Mr. Perfect and he's not married to Ms. Perfect. I waited for the guy who was the right match for me, perfect for me, so to speak.  I would never ever want to have a child in a bad marriage -I've seen what happens to the kids - and what happens to them as adults.  Would I have wanted two kids -yes - was I thrilled with one and done? Yes!!! Also marrying young doesn't mean at all that you can have more kids at least biologically and of course people can adopt later in life too or foster, etc.  

[maritalbliss86]

51 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

just like I'm not avoiding having friends when I decide not to be friends with a particular person -are you?

I'm confused by this statement.  

Of course you're not avoiding having *other friends by deciding not to be friends with a particular person.  

You avoid the particular person by deciding (making a choice) not to continue that path with that person.

You even explained to your son why you wanted to *avoid* reaching out to the mom... but of course you will reach out to other friends and continue to make new friends.

That makes sense.

[bluecastle]

7 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Bluecastle, I have a lot of respect for you personally, based on reading your comments for awhile.

I do think you have to watch someone's actions over time.  Not just listen to their words, so I'm watching your actions here, over decades.  And just based on your actions, over time, you have (please hear me out, I'm not judging you in this) you have avoided marriage for some reason.  

Of course that can change, you can choose to marry this new person at some point.  But the reality of your choices is that, for some reason, even after spending 15 years in relationships, you have not yet chosen marriage and have avoided it.

Well well, didn't this get juicy in my absence! The 3D world beckoned hard yesterday—just so no one thinks I was (cough, cough; wink, wink) avoiding anything. 

Anyhow, I really don't think I've "avoided" marriage, at least not in the way you may be implying or I may be interpreting. Like, let's say I tell you I'm not religious, that I don't adhere to the rituals of any major religion or believe in an omniscient deity. Or, less loaded? Let's say I tell you that I don't have any desire to ever go on a cruise? Does this mean I'm "avoiding" god, "avoiding" cruise ships? I guess one could see it that way. But to me it just means my value system is one that is not motivated by religion or thinking cruises sound awesome, and as such my life choices reflect those values.

That's kind of how marriage is, for me. Not against it, not for it. Pretty agnostic. Intellectually I can just as easily make a case about how absurd marriage is as I can how essential—and I've done both plenty!—but that's just be me flashing some brain power. In my my core? Marriage has just never really motivated me and my choices—and I say that as someone pretty motivated and proactive when it comes to chasing dreams with ferocity, realizing many, and slicing myself open from time to time to clear out whatever psycho-spiritual corrosion may be clogging my pipes, fogging my vision, tripping me up on the path to my most authentic wants and needs.

Alas, draw a line from my teen years to now and marriage just doesn't have a lot of pull over me. Is it because of how I grew up, a "child of divorce"? Is it because I've showcased a nature that likes to push against convention? Perhaps. But I really don't care all that much, as I don't see it as something to solve, just as I don't see my attitude toward cruises as a riddle. There have been a lot of times I wish I had a different outlook, frankly, as my experience has been that more people imagine themselves getting married than don't. But what can you do? I'm hardwired to invest my energy in getting comfy in my own skin rather than to trying to walk around in clothes that don't quite fit—energy, to delicately yank this conversation full circle, that I believe has helped me become the very good life partner that I am very motivated to be.   

And speaking of that? You're right: I very well may marry my girlfriend! I think about it, it's a nice thought, not "scary" or "triggering" or all that. But equally nice? Going through life together, without that. And what makes imagining that possible? In this, our values are aligned, so the irony is that part of what makes it easy and fun to imagine marrying her one day, should we continue on the path we've been on these past two years, is that her attitude about marriage is pretty similar to my own.

(I'd spend a week on a cruise with her too, but that's pretty unlikely, at least for the foreseeable future, because we share an attitude about that too.)

 

 

 

[maritalbliss86]

3 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

And speaking of that? You're right: I very well may marry my girlfriend! I think about it, it's a nice thought, not "scary" or "triggering" or all that. But equally nice? Going through life together, without that. And what makes imagining that possible? In this, our values are aligned, so the irony is that part of what makes it easy and fun to imagine marrying her one day, should we continue on the path we've been on these past two years, is that her attitude about marriage is pretty similar to my own.

Yes, if you go back and read what, "decision avoidance," is, it is a strategy that involves sometimes prolonging a decision, putting it off like you are doing.  

It's totally fine!  Nothing wrong with that, but it actually is a term and strategy psychologically.

[maritalbliss86]

Overall BC, you're going to (and have had) a beautiful life in general.

I feel very strongly like I can, "see," that about you.

You're going to be very very happy I think.

And you totally have the correct attitude about life.

I do hope you find God, or make your peace with him (I understand being agnostic though... have had many friends like that and dated one in my teens so I understand the thinking and process).

But you're doing great.  Being an older parent is hard though... aside from all the crazy risks chemically to your sperm and the woman's eggs, it's just harder energetically.  BUT ironically, you have the energy and drive to probably deal with that ok.

[LaHermes]

26 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

But to me it just means my value system is one that is not motivated by religion or thinking cruises sound awesome, and as such my life choices reflect those values.

Agree wholeheartedly with your post, BC. And you are on the same page as me re the quote. Religion aside, I wouldn't go on a cruise if I got the trip for nothing and money thrown in as well!

26 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

I've showcased a nature that likes to push against convention?

And that would be me too. So many times I've been called a free thinker.

26 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

I'm hardwired to invest my energy in getting comfy in my own skin rather than to trying to walk around in clothes that don't quite fit—energy, to delicately yank this conversation full circle, that I believe has helped me become the very good life partner that I am very motivated to be.   

Yes and yes again! 

And could I add for good measure that there is IMO  no difference between marriage and LTR. One needs equal maturity for LTR as for a healthy marriage.

And yes to what Batya says:

"Also marrying young doesn't mean at all that you can have more kids at least biologically and of course people can adopt later in life too or foster, etc.  "

And then, of course, there is a whole cohort of people who decide to remain child-free. A perfectly respectable choice, whether they are married or "single". 

 

[maritalbliss86]

Reposting this again because I don't want it to get buried yet

So my husband read through all this with me last night and laughed   I've told him about a lot of you commenters before, so he kind of knows the backstory to some of your marriages, experiences, etc.  

There is just something about growing with someone in those years of Youth & Immaturity that seems to make or break a young marriage.  Obviously it is dangerous waters to embark on, but I also think the rewards of learning and growing through it are (to me, I told my husband) worth more than a million dollars.

And I don't think the rewards of going through it has really been studied yet, or explained, largely because people (in our age at least) aren't really prepared properly for marriage that young, so as a result, many fail in that period of youth & immaturity.

Think about how a person's brain isn't done developing until age 25.  Well when you partner together before that, those are years where your brains are both growing at the same time together, and influencing each other's growth.  Mysteriously effecting each other chemically, and in ways that afterward, are more permanent as your brains both end and finish that development period.

That may be why the bond is so strangely deep and strong, and it may have been what has helped us not divorce when things get tough, because we know and have witnessed each other's maturity and growth and have more faith in each other than if I'd come into this relationship right now, at age 34.

I thought about our own marriage... if I had met him now, at 34, yes, I'm sure I would have still married him in a heartbeat, BUT at the same time, I think I'd see his struggles with his family in a more cynical way and possibly divorce instead of stay. 

That's just the truth!  I'm much more compassionate toward him and his growth, in large part, I think because I've witnessed so much of his past journey and our brains are connected in a weird way, probably from bonding together when they literally developed together.  Sometimes knowing he struggles in this actually makes me love him even more and feel even more bonded (mysteriously).  The frustration is still there, but it's largely tempered by these other (stronger) feelings.

But if I had married him now at his age, he may not have been open to going to counseling to figure out his strange behavior in not being able to confront them at times.  Or at least, may not have been open to do counseling fast enough for me, and I would have left and moved on to find someone I thought was more perfect. 

Because if I had met him at 34, I wouldn't just hang around for him to figure that out.

And if he had lived all these years just in various committed relationships (and avoided marriage) I highly doubt his family would have caused the same drama for him in order to motivate him to figure his reaction to them out.  We have witnessed that they haven't acted like that for the couples our age who lived together instead, and they really wanted us to just live together, too.  A lot of the drama they cause is because they know they can't control him/us as a unit.  So if he hadn't married me so young, and had had different relationships, he may not have had that incentive to figure out his/their behavior with a counselor.

Either way...  I think if a couple is mature enough and wants to give up some sacrifices by marrying early, the benefits pay off big time for them later on.  And in ways most people never, "see."

I do want my daughter to know that missing out on those years of your brain getting to develop with someone is something worth looking at seriously.  And something no one seems to understand the value of (and to fair, it's probably never been studied scientifically or anything).  She may not choose that at all, but I do want her to have the opportunity to really look into it.

Each decision causes one to avoid the other decisions and as a result, avoid the benefits or consequences of those other decisions.

I don't think it's good for people to look back and wish they had done it differently.  So for people who married later, you shouldn't look back and long for the years you could have had (we've known a couple of marriages where they do wish they had had more time or met sooner).  I think that's not productive because you can't do anything about the past.

I'm just laying out all the courses and the benefits or consequences for our kids to see them clearly.  Not to judge anyone reading, that's not my intent.  This is just a journal to work out my own thoughts on it.  

***

One of the main (and probably most painful) consequences to waiting so long looking for Mr. Perfect, is not having the children one could have had... that never got to exist.  I think about that sometimes when I see some people.   I think about the life they could have lived, and can sometimes even, "see," what they missed that they themselves cannot (and probably would rather just not!) see at all.

It happened one time to a couple who had just recently divorced.  They had one son and I saw them interacting with our daughter and had some weird thing where I could literally, "see," that they may have missed out on having a daughter like ours because they refused to work out their issues and were divorcing instead.  It happened so fast... and yes, I could actually, "see," it and it shocked me because the feeling behind (the surity) was so strong, for something so nutty.  And it was very sad.  Of course I never said anything to them, but it did leave me wondering what on earth that was about?  It was almost like I had seen a ghost in that I saw exactly what she would have looked like... saw the expressions of pure joy on their faces, and saw how happy they would have been as a family with their boy and girl... just a very strange experience.

So sometimes I can, "see," things that freak even me out (and that I tell myself, "That's probably just your over active imagination").  But it'd be too painful for those people to hear that/see that themselves.  Their (possible) future daughter will never exist anyway... even though they've told us they communicate now better than when they were married, they're already moving on to other people.  And a girl that (may??) have existed, is never going to exist.

***

I want our kids to understand that if you wait that long, if you stay in a bad relationship, those are years missed.  Those are beautiful children missed that you could have had.  

So don't waste your life.  

You don't get your youth back.

Make wise decisions as much as possible.  Seek counsel from people who are older and who you trust.

Understand we won't judge you.

Don't self-sabotage in your youth (as much as you're able)!  You will live to regret things like that because they will determine the course of your life.

Edited 2 hours ago by maritalbliss86
more details

[Seraphim]

1 minute ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Reposting this again because I don't want it to get buried yet

So my husband read through all this with me last night and laughed   I've told him about a lot of you commenters before, so he kind of knows the backstory to some of your marriages, experiences, etc.  

There is just something about growing with someone in those years of Youth & Immaturity that seems to make or break a young marriage.  Obviously it is dangerous waters to embark on, but I also think the rewards of learning and growing through it are (to me, I told my husband) worth more than a million dollars.

And I don't think the rewards of going through it has really been studied yet, or explained, largely because people (in our age at least) aren't really prepared properly for marriage that young, so as a result, many fail in that period of youth & immaturity.

Think about how a person's brain isn't done developing until age 25.  Well when you partner together before that, those are years where your brains are both growing at the same time together, and influencing each other's growth.  Mysteriously effecting each other chemically, and in ways that afterward, are more permanent as your brains both end and finish that development period.

That may be why the bond is so strangely deep and strong, and it may have been what has helped us not divorce when things get tough, because we know and have witnessed each other's maturity and growth and have more faith in each other than if I'd come into this relationship right now, at age 34.

I thought about our own marriage... if I had met him now, at 34, yes, I'm sure I would have still married him in a heartbeat, BUT at the same time, I think I'd see his struggles with his family in a more cynical way and possibly divorce instead of stay. 

That's just the truth!  I'm much more compassionate toward him and his growth, in large part, I think because I've witnessed so much of his past journey and our brains are connected in a weird way, probably from bonding together when they literally developed together.  Sometimes knowing he struggles in this actually makes me love him even more and feel even more bonded (mysteriously).  The frustration is still there, but it's largely tempered by these other (stronger) feelings.

But if I had married him now at his age, he may not have been open to going to counseling to figure out his strange behavior in not being able to confront them at times.  Or at least, may not have been open to do counseling fast enough for me, and I would have left and moved on to find someone I thought was more perfect. 

Because if I had met him at 34, I wouldn't just hang around for him to figure that out.

And if he had lived all these years just in various committed relationships (and avoided marriage) I highly doubt his family would have caused the same drama for him in order to motivate him to figure his reaction to them out.  We have witnessed that they haven't acted like that for the couples our age who lived together instead, and they really wanted us to just live together, too.  A lot of the drama they cause is because they know they can't control him/us as a unit.  So if he hadn't married me so young, and had had different relationships, he may not have had that incentive to figure out his/their behavior with a counselor.

Either way...  I think if a couple is mature enough and wants to give up some sacrifices by marrying early, the benefits pay off big time for them later on.  And in ways most people never, "see."

I do want my daughter to know that missing out on those years of your brain getting to develop with someone is something worth looking at seriously.  And something no one seems to understand the value of (and to fair, it's probably never been studied scientifically or anything).  She may not choose that at all, but I do want her to have the opportunity to really look into it.

Each decision causes one to avoid the other decisions and as a result, avoid the benefits or consequences of those other decisions.

I don't think it's good for people to look back and wish they had done it differently.  So for people who married later, you shouldn't look back and long for the years you could have had (we've known a couple of marriages where they do wish they had had more time or met sooner).  I think that's not productive because you can't do anything about the past.

I'm just laying out all the courses and the benefits or consequences for our kids to see them clearly.  Not to judge anyone reading, that's not my intent.  This is just a journal to work out my own thoughts on it.  

***

One of the main (and probably most painful) consequences to waiting so long looking for Mr. Perfect, is not having the children one could have had... that never got to exist.  I think about that sometimes when I see some people.   I think about the life they could have lived, and can sometimes even, "see," what they missed that they themselves cannot (and probably would rather just not!) see at all.

It happened one time to a couple who had just recently divorced.  They had one son and I saw them interacting with our daughter and had some weird thing where I could literally, "see," that they may have missed out on having a daughter like ours because they refused to work out their issues and were divorcing instead.  It happened so fast... and yes, I could actually, "see," it and it shocked me because the feeling behind (the surity) was so strong, for something so nutty.  And it was very sad.  Of course I never said anything to them, but it did leave me wondering what on earth that was about?  It was almost like I had seen a ghost in that I saw exactly what she would have looked like... saw the expressions of pure joy on their faces, and saw how happy they would have been as a family with their boy and girl... just a very strange experience.

So sometimes I can, "see," things that freak even me out (and that I tell myself, "That's probably just your over active imagination").  But it'd be too painful for those people to hear that/see that themselves.  Their (possible) future daughter will never exist anyway... even though they've told us they communicate now better than when they were married, they're already moving on to other people.  And a girl that (may??) have existed, is never going to exist.

***

I want our kids to understand that if you wait that long, if you stay in a bad relationship, those are years missed.  Those are beautiful children missed that you could have had.  

So don't waste your life.  

You don't get your youth back.

Make wise decisions as much as possible.  Seek counsel from people who are older and who you trust.

Understand we won't judge you.

Don't self-sabotage in your youth (as much as you're able)!  You will live to regret things like that because they will determine the course of your life.

Edited 2 hours ago by maritalbliss86
more details

I will say for sure my husband and I have influenced each other’s growth for the good and the worse. 

[bluecastle]

23 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Yes, if you go back and read what, "decision avoidance," is, it is a strategy that involves sometimes prolonging a decision, putting it off like you are doing.  

This is your interpretation, though. I'm not "putting anything off" in my world, at least when it comes to marriage. I'm actively choosing, and have actively chosen for some time, that this is not a decision that holds much weight on my personal scales. I've already made the decision, in other words. 

 

[bluecastle]

Per your repost, follow me for a minute if you're so inclined...

When I was 16 I found myself very captivated by a certain artistic pursuit. It felt, to me, like another planet, another galaxy, one I wanted to explore and contribute to—and, living as I do in reality, figure out a way to make a living inside. 

So I moved to a gigantic city the next year, in theory to attend college, but really to start chasing this pursuit. I was pretty rabid in my intensity, feral in my commitment, much the way you see in two young people in love.  

Caught some breaks, started doing this thing when I was 19, and accomplished something I'd dreamed of accomplishing at 22. Call it the version of childbirth, in this non-romantic paradigm. Changed my life, shaped me—and, in no small way, continues to shape me, propel me, guide me and nurture me, and challenge me, big time, often stripping me clean to the bone, metaphorically.  

What's my point here? 

Well, I could say that this life path, because it was so formative to me, is one I'd want others to have. That going after something so wild, so young, does something to the brain that is singular, grows you in a way that is unique: stunning here, stunting there, etc. But really that's just me, one speck of human dust making heads and tails of where I've blown about. And maybe that's just youth, in ways, in that where we put our energy during formative years—in art, in commerce, in marriage, in procreation—will be inherently formative. For better or for worse, to riff on a theme. 

From where I sit that's kind of what you're saying, if you open the aperture a bit.

 

[maritalbliss86]

Quote

Decision avoidance is a choice strategy whereby decision- makers fail to make a decision, postpone a decision, or make a de- cision that does not involve action or change (Beattie et al. 1994; Luce 1998; see Anderson 2003).

Yes... that actually is decision avoidance on the topic of marriage.  It's not worth it to you, has no value to you, so your decision involves "inaction," or "making the decision to stay unmarried so as not to change your relationship."

It doesn't matter you could care less about it, you are still deciding not to change what is right now (remain the same, unmarried, so as to avoid marriage).

[maritalbliss86]

I'm going out for awhile... we pre-arranged for me to have some time to go shopping and explore a different area on my own today, very excited!!!  So I won't be able to reply at all (won't be checking, although it's tempting  ).

Have a good weekend everyone! ❤️ 

[LaHermes]

Can't recall ever "avoiding" a decision in my life. I either took a decision or I didn't. choice, not avoidance.I actively chose to be singly independent because that is what I WANTED to do, not for some arcane and abstract reason.

MB. Life is not that complicated, I assure you.  Try not to overthink stuff.  You (and I refer back to your earlier posts)  have a good marriage to a good husband (as you describe him). And that was good for you. But we all cannot be told that your way is the only way.   It is your way, your path. 

Or is it really because, at some level, you are regretting marrying young?  Hence all the argument?

[bluecastle]

Re the decision avoidance:

I would agree with you if I was in a relationship with someone who wanted to get married, and rather than face that directly, I wobbled, waffled. That's avoidance—and, in that example, it would likely be a way of coping with the paralysis that can come from having to make a Big Decision.

Or I'd agree if, in quiet moments, I was consumed by thoughts and ruminations about marriage, why I've yet to marry, whether I should marry, whether I'll regret my choices, on the threshold of leaving this life, if marriage ends up being an experience I missed. But rather than reckon with what feels to me like a pressing decision, as my one life ticks away, I just spin in place on the existential stationary bike. 

But I've already made this decision, have long been at peace with it, have a #fomo gauge that rests in the zero position. That decision, made before I met my partner, in ways helped both of us gauge our compatibility together, as I imagine you and your husband bonded quickly about both wanting to be married.

Zoom out and it's all much more similar, what we're describing, than different, just as sushi is basically the same thing as pasta, from up above, in that both are one way of staying nourished. Just different flavors.   

An article I read not long ago, that you may find relevant: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/what-if-you-could-do-it-all-over

It's all about the way we humans can toss and turn, mentally, about all the lives we invariably don't live because of the one life we do. 

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

An article I read not long ago, that you may find relevant: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/what-if-you-could-do-it-all-over

It's all about the way we humans can toss and turn, mentally, about all the lives we invariably don't live because of the one life we do. 

So I definitely am in an avoidance relationship with the New Yorker because over the decades I've subscribed and then had to stop because of New Yorker Guilt meaning there are so many dense issues I never get to them and I want to avoid the resulting guilt.  Sigh.

[bluecastle]

33 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So I definitely am in an avoidance relationship with the New Yorker because over the decades I've subscribed and then had to stop because of New Yorker Guilt meaning there are so many dense issues I never get to them and I want to avoid the resulting guilt.  Sigh.

Oh, I know that guilt well. 

We have a family tradition, going back to 1941, where the older generation pays for the younger generation's New Yorker subscription—for life. It's in wills! 

I got to a wonderful place, on that guilt spectrum, wherein I read it when I feel like it, and don't when I don't. I can't really function if I'm not reading a novel, so sometimes the New Yorker has to wait—and sometimes it has to be ignored.  

 

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, bluecastle said:

Oh, I know that guilt well. 

We have a family tradition, going back to 1941, where the older generation pays for the younger generation's New Yorker subscription—for life. It's in wills! 

I got to a wonderful place, on that guilt spectrum, wherein I read it when I feel like it, and don't when I don't. I can't really function if I'm not reading a novel, so sometimes the New Yorker has to wait—and sometimes it has to be ignored.  

 

Wow!  I feel the same exact about novel vs. NYer!

[maritalbliss86]

On 1/9/2021 at 10:16 AM, LaHermes said:

I either took a decision or I didn't. choice, not avoidance.I actively chose to be singly independent because that is what I WANTED to do, not for some arcane and abstract reason.

I'm curious why you've insisted on telling me you strongly believe, "no one should get married before 30," but then are claiming you didn't, "avoid," marriage before that age?

You're right that it's not arcane/abstract.  It's simple logic!

[maritalbliss86]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:26 AM, bluecastle said:

Re the decision avoidance:

I would agree with you if I was in a relationship with someone who wanted to get married, and rather than face that directly, I wobbled, waffled. That's avoidance—and, in that example, it would likely be a way of coping with the paralysis that can come from having to make a Big Decision.

Or I'd agree if, in quiet moments, I was consumed by thoughts and ruminations about marriage, why I've yet to marry, whether I should marry, whether I'll regret my choices, on the threshold of leaving this life, if marriage ends up being an experience I missed. But rather than reckon with what feels to me like a pressing decision, as my one life ticks away, I just spin in place on the existential stationary bike. 

But I've already made this decision, have long been at peace with it, have a #fomo gauge that rests in the zero position. That decision, made before I met my partner, in ways helped both of us gauge our compatibility together, as I imagine you and your husband bonded quickly about both wanting to be married.

Zoom out and it's all much more similar, what we're describing, than different, just as sushi is basically the same thing as pasta, from up above, in that both are one way of staying nourished. Just different flavors.   

An article I read not long ago, that you may find relevant: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/what-if-you-could-do-it-all-over

It's all about the way we humans can toss and turn, mentally, about all the lives we invariably don't live because of the one life we do. 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree BC.  Choosing to stay unmarried, is by fault, avoiding marriage LOL.  It's ok though, I'm definitely not judging you for this or anything like that.

We'll just agree to disagree. 

[maritalbliss86]

On 1/9/2021 at 10:16 AM, LaHermes said:

But we all cannot be told that your way is the only way.   It is your way, your path. 

Or is it really because, at some level, you are regretting marrying young?  Hence all the argument?

Maybe you didn't read all my (longer) posts before writing this?  It's ok... I know it's probably confusing, but I'm very very glad we married when we did, even with all the hardships and even the difficulties now (minor really, but still there sometimes because his parents cause drama as you know).

I wrote before that the learning and growth in those first few years together is so valuable, so priceless, that I wouldn't trade it for a million dollars.  But maybe you don't want to, "see," that I appreciate those years for some reason?

I also wrote that these posts/comments I'm writing out are not for judging people who did it differently.  So this is not judging your way, path, or marriage!   Not at all.

Your comment saying, "we all cannot be told that your way is the only way," I've specifically said this is not for you all (at all). 

It's a journal and these musings are not for you, LH, not at all. 

They are for my children and the younger generation so that they can see the different paths chosen and choose realistically.

I actually really hope my daughter chooses what we did, a younger marriage and does not wait until after 30, due to what we've seen and known.  So yes, I am very biased that our way was far far better, even for reasons I havent' talked about (virginity bonding etc.).

BUT I also value other people's experiences and think there are pros (positives) and cons (negatives) instead of politically correctness "differences," lol and I want her to know and see all of those, as well as know the reality of how hard young marriages really are.

I'm kind of sad you didn't understand all of that.  I feel like I've been repeating it multiple times, and in multiple ways.

[maritalbliss86]

Batya I don't think you ever confronted how you led me to believe your sister wanted to remain single and independent and broke it off once the man wanted marriage.

Were you ever able to look back at your quote and, "see," what you left out?  

Were you ever able to, "see," you left out that the man was quirky, and that my assumption was a logical assumption based on the information given?

[bluecastle]

2 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Choosing to stay unmarried, is by fault, avoiding marriage LOL. 

Do you mean by "default"?

Would you say, out of curiosity, that I am avoiding living abroad because, so far, I've chosen to live my whole life in the United States? Or that I'm avoiding Nicaragua because I haven't chosen to plan a trip there, much as I travel? 

I don't ask those questions to be flip or provocative. Living abroad is something I've thought about a lot, haven't ruled out, but just don't see as a pressing decision. I've considered going to Nicaragua for years—I'm a big surfer, good waves there—but I always end up returning to a town in neighboring Costa Rica. Still, who knows? Again, not pressing. 

Marriage has been a big part of your life, best I can tell, and a defining component of your adult experience and conception of adulthood. So cool, such an ongoing journey! But those who choose a different path may not be avoiding one that looks like yours, if that makes sense. Rather, they may just think about—or not—in a very different way. 

[maritalbliss86]

2 hours ago, bluecastle said:

default"?

Yes, sorry!

I think other choices really are purely just choices at times.  And there are degrees of avoiding things, like it could be a spectrum.  

I'm sure not all decisions mean you are purposefully avoiding something.  But the decision to stay single IS different because there are only two options there.  

To try to compare being single (legally) or married (only two options) to living in a million different choices... it is not a valid comparison at all.

If one chooses to avoid the institution of marriage, and live with a partner and not marry right now, they are actively avoiding the institution of marriage.  Does that make sense?  Legally there are only two options I believe (unless civil unions complicate the matter, which could be the case).