How Do You Balance Life with Kids?

[maritalbliss86]

Synonyms of avoid

Refrain from

Abstain from

Eschew

Circumvent

Forbear from

 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Wow, again, this seems to prove what I was pondering yesterday.  Independence is hard to give up for some people.  It prevented her from finding true compatibility with this new man who wanted to build and create a life together with her.

How interesting.

Not in the least.  She simply likes having her own space.  She likes her own company and being on her own.  Not because she didn't want to give up her independence.  This man was really odd/quirky and also not yet divorced plus financially unstable and with kids etc - very complicated.  I see a theme in some of your posts that somehow women who find a man who wants them ---- should choose that man if he is a "good man" - because he has chosen her.  I respect that that is your mindset.  It was mine when I was a teenager and in my 20s.  Almost made a disastrous choice because of that.  But, I didn't.  

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Definition of

Avoid - keep away from or stop oneself from doing (something).

 

LOL - BC is far more eloquent than me in his responses and it's his choice and I'll see if he chooses to respond or "avoids" the topic 😉

[maritalbliss86]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

LOL - BC is far more eloquent than me in his responses and it's his choice and I'll see if he chooses to respond or "avoids" the topic 😉

Not choosing to do something is actually avoiding it tacitly.  

The dictionary gives specific examples of the word, "Avoid,"

"To not go through a place," is avoiding it by choosing something different

[maritalbliss86]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Not because she didn't want to give up her independence.

No offense, but you didn't disclose he was quirky etc. and just said that she ended it once he wanted marriage.

So you led me to believe she valued her independence more, not that he was quirky etc.

[maritalbliss86]

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I see a theme in some of your posts that somehow women who find a man who wants them ---- should choose that man if he is a "good man" - because he has chosen her.

Just to clarify my own position, I believe a woman should wait until she finds true compatibility.

If that means she waits and avoids marriage by choosing not to get engaged to just anyone, by all means, that's right for her.

[Jibralta]

5 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

But you didn't choose marriage, or am I missing something (is it a civil union?).

We may still get married. Theoretically, we are engaged. In fact, he proposed to me in the doctor's office on Wednesday and I said yes. But I've also proposed to him, and he's said yes. One day, we probably actually will get married. But it will be something very modest. Courtroom, most likely. Then a big party 😀😀😀

[Jibralta]

4 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

In marriage, you rely more on something called interdependence.  It is similar, yet also different from independence.

I don't know why you think we are not interdependent. We are very much so. The only thing a marriage certificate will change is are some legalities and taxes.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Just to clarify my own position, I believe a woman should wait until she finds true compatibility.

If that means she waits and avoids marriage by choosing not to get engaged to just anyone, by all means, that's right for her.

I wasn't avoiding marriage -I was avoiding marrying the wrong person.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

No offense, but you didn't disclose he was quirky etc. and just said that she ended it once he wanted marriage.

So you led me to believe she valued her independence more, not that he was quirky etc.

LOL I don't think I led you to believe anything of the sort.  You assumed that was what I meant -enjoying being on your own doesn't have to mean because of wanting your independence.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Not choosing to do something is actually avoiding it tacitly.  

The dictionary gives specific examples of the word, "Avoid,"

"To not go through a place," is avoiding it by choosing something different

As I wrote I am going to avoid responding since it is BC you contend is avoiding marriage -he may choose to respond or avoid responding.  I think I will have a chocolate chip cookie instead of cake for dessert - so am I avoiding cake or simply choosing among two options? I'm not referring to "tacit' or technicalities -I'm talking about people who make a choice intentionally to avoid another choice.  It need not be that way.  As the famous Rush song says "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".  From your definition any choice means you are always avoiding another option.  I don't agree it's that broad in this context.  BC right now is choosing not to marry - doesn't mean he is "avoiding" marriage in any active sense.  Tacit-shmacit - making it that broad kinda makes it meaningless don't you think?

[Batya33]

I should add that I've known more than one woman to marry solely to avoid being single.  Sad.

[maritalbliss86]

5 hours ago, Jibralta said:

I don't know why you think we are not interdependent. We are very much so. The only thing a marriage certificate will change is are some legalities and taxes.

I knew you would say that 😉 LOL

Ok... so why not just marry  if you know... if it's just a piece of paper... right?

[maritalbliss86]

4 hours ago, Jibralta said:

We may still get married. Theoretically, we are engaged. In fact, he proposed to me in the doctor's office on Wednesday and I said yes. But I've also proposed to him, and he's said yes. One day, we probably actually will get married. But it will be something very modest. Courtroom, most likely. Then a big party 😀😀😀

Oh darn!  I didn't read this reply yet LOL

Great for you both!!!!  

[maritalbliss86]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I wasn't avoiding marriage -I was avoiding marrying the wrong person.

Batya sometimes I wonder at your replies.  You've said before that you weren't the right person in order to appreciate the right person.  

But I get it, you avoided marriage to the wrong person.  It's still avoiding marriage (generalized).  It's still, "right."  Even though you're also right you avoided it because you hadn't "found," the right person yet.

And yet last week you were talking about how you hadn't, "become," the right person yet.

It's actually really confusing sometimes to talk to you due to all these strange things.  But I love your points generally and we agree on most things.

It may be the online dynamic.  It's harder to communicate effectively online.

[maritalbliss86]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I think I will have a chocolate chip cookie instead of cake for dessert - so am I avoiding cake or simply choosing among two options? I'm not referring to "tacit' or technicalities -I'm talking about people who make a choice intentionally to avoid another choice. 

Well.  I think you're weight conscious enough to understand you ARE avoiding cake if you choose the cookie.

Otherwise, why not eat both right?

Because you know better.  

You know eating both is a bad decision weight wise.

So you avoid the cake, so you can enjoy the cookie.

[maritalbliss86]

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

She loves being on her own.  No desire to be married.  She had a long term boyfriend after her divorce -I paid for her to be on a dating site, and she met him - but it ended when he wanted marriage (although he wasn't yet divorced....).  She realized she likes being on her own, living on her own. 

Ok Batya.  This is what you revealed (meaning the above quote).

You left out that he was quirky, so yes, logically I assumed - due to the way you wrote this quoted excerpt - that she ended it because she valued her independence and wanted to avoid marriage again.

It was a logical assumption, because you left the "quirky guy," part out.

Hopefully you can see that?  🤔

 

Edited to add Batya's 1st response

"LOL I don't think I led you to believe anything of the sort.  You assumed that was what I meant"

[maritalbliss86]

Ok so this is pretty deep into psychology, but avoiding something, especially when you've been in relationships for 15 years, but never a marriage, it is something called, "Decision Avoidance."

Quote

Decision avoidance is a choice strategy whereby decision- makers fail to make a decision, postpone a decision, or make a de- cision that does not involve action or change (Beattie et al.

 

[maritalbliss86]

So my husband read through all this with me last night and laughed   I've told him about a lot of you commenters before, so he kind of knows the backstory to some of your marriages, experiences, etc.  

There is just something about growing with someone in those years of Youth & Immaturity that seems to make or break a young marriage.  Obviously it is dangerous waters to embark on, but I also think the rewards of learning and growing through it are (to me, I told my husband) worth more than a million dollars.

And I don't think the rewards of going through it has really been studied yet, or explained, largely because people (in our age at least) aren't really prepared properly for marriage that young, so as a result, many fail in that period of youth & immaturity.

Think about how a person's brain isn't done developing until age 25.  Well when you partner together before that, those are years where your brains are both growing at the same time together, and influencing each other's growth.  Mysteriously effecting each other chemically, and in ways that afterward, are more permanent as your brains both end and finish that development period.

That may be why the bond is so strangely deep and strong, and it may have been what has helped us not divorce when things get tough, because we know and have witnessed each other's maturity and growth and have more faith in each other than if I'd come into this relationship right now, at age 34.

I thought about our own marriage... if I had met him now, at 34, yes, I'm sure I would have still married him in a heartbeat, BUT at the same time, I think I'd see his struggles with his family in a more cynical way and possibly divorce instead of stay. 

That's just the truth!  I'm much more compassionate toward him and his growth, in large part, I think because I've witnessed so much of his past journey and our brains are connected in a weird way, probably from bonding together when they literally developed together.  Sometimes knowing he struggles in this actually makes me love him even more and feel even more bonded (mysteriously).  The frustration is still there, but it's largely tempered by these other (stronger) feelings.

But if I had married him now at his age, he may not have been open to going to counseling to figure out his strange behavior in not being able to confront them at times.  Or at least, may not have been open to do counseling fast enough for me, and I would have left and moved on to find someone I thought was more perfect. 

Because if I had met him at 34, I wouldn't just hang around for him to figure that out.

And if he had lived all these years just in various committed relationships (and avoided marriage) I highly doubt his family would have caused the same drama for him in order to motivate him to figure his reaction to them out.  We have witnessed that they haven't acted like that for the couples our age who lived together instead, and they really wanted us to just live together, too.  A lot of the drama they cause is because they know they can't control him/us as a unit.  So if he hadn't married me so young, and had had different relationships, he may not have had that incentive to figure out his/their behavior with a counselor.

Either way...  I think if a couple is mature enough and wants to give up some sacrifices by marrying early, the benefits pay off big time for them later on.  And in ways most people never, "see."

I do want my daughter to know that missing out on those years of your brain getting to develop with someone is something worth looking at seriously.  And something no one seems to understand the value of (and to fair, it's probably never been studied scientifically or anything).  She may not choose that at all, but I do want her to have the opportunity to really look into it.

Each decision causes one to avoid the other decisions and as a result, avoid the benefits or consequences of those other decisions.

I don't think it's good for people to look back and wish they had done it differently.  So for people who married later, you shouldn't look back and long for the years you could have had (we've known a couple of marriages where they do wish they had had more time or met sooner).  I think that's not productive because you can't do anything about the past.

I'm just laying out all the courses and the benefits or consequences for our kids to see them clearly.  Not to judge anyone reading, that's not my intent.  This is just a journal to work out my own thoughts on it.  

***

One of the main (and probably most painful) consequences to waiting so long looking for Mr. Perfect, is not having the children one could have had... that never got to exist.  I think about that sometimes when I see some people.   I think about the life they could have lived, and can sometimes even, "see," what they missed that they themselves cannot (and probably would rather just not!) see at all.

It happened one time to a couple who had just recently divorced.  They had one son and I saw them interacting with our daughter and had some weird thing where I could literally, "see," that they may have missed out on having a daughter like ours because they refused to work out their issues and were divorcing instead.  It happened so fast... and yes, I could actually, "see," it and it shocked me because the feeling behind (the surity) was so strong, for something so nutty.  And it was very sad.  Of course I never said anything to them, but it did leave me wondering what on earth that was about?  It was almost like I had seen a ghost in that I saw exactly what she would have looked like... saw the expressions of pure joy on their faces, and saw how happy they would have been as a family with their boy and girl... just a very strange experience.

So sometimes I can, "see," things that freak even me out (and that I tell myself, "That's probably just your over active imagination").  But it'd be too painful for those people to hear that/see that themselves.  Their (possible) future daughter will never exist anyway... even though they've told us they communicate now better than when they were married, they're already moving on to other people.  And a girl that (may??) have existed, is never going to exist.

***

I want our kids to understand that if you wait that long, if you stay in a bad relationship, those are years missed.  Those are beautiful children missed that you could have had.  

So don't waste your life.  

You don't get your youth back.

Make wise decisions as much as possible.  Seek counsel from people who are older and who you trust.

Understand we won't judge you.

Don't self-sabotage in your youth (as much as you're able)!  You will live to regret things like that because they will determine the course of your life.

[maritalbliss86]

All of that above needs to be paired with something else though, or it's just not, "right," or, "good," in my mind.

 

After you make decisions,

stick with them and have solid footing for why you chose to make them.

And don't look back too much,

unless it's to learn from something and help the next generation.

 

Looking back too much on time you may have wasted probably isn't healthy.

If you do look back and feel some regret that's also ok ***hugs***

No one gets this life perfect, so expect that you'll regret some things, that's normal.

You're allowed to feel some regret and tell yourself, 

"Yes, I regret (fill in the blank), but I'm glad I learned from it."

And then move on with positive feelings

knowing you truly did learn from it, and that's all you can do.

[Seraphim]

I was partnered pretty early but didn’t marry until 27. My husband wasn’t really ready for children even when we had our son . He had far too much emotional baggage to handle and wasn’t willing to handle it. 
 

By the time he was ready to have kids it was far too late for me. I couldn’t have another child past 30. And by the time he wanted more kids I was already 40. He really wanted a daughter and a son more like him all sporty and he man, our son is not. He appreciates our son now. Our son is very cerebral and nerdy. 
 

But my husband laments we didn’t have our kids younger but he would not have been a good father and he wasn’t a good father to his son when his was young. He had no bond to him at all . He does now. My step dad was my son’s father figure when he was little. My step dad adores my son to this day . When we moved here he sat in my son’s empty room back home and cried. My mom said she has never in 30 years seen that man cry except that day. 

[Jibralta]

30 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

There is just something about growing with someone in those years of Youth & Immaturity that seems to make or break a young marriage.  Obviously it is dangerous waters to embark on, but I also think the rewards of learning and growing through it are (to me, I told my husband) worth more than a million dollars.

And I don't think the rewards of going through it has really been studied yet, or explained, largely because people (in our age at least) aren't really prepared properly for marriage that young, so as a result, many fail in that period of youth & immaturity.

Think about how a person's brain isn't done developing until age 25.  Well when you partner together before that, those are years where your brains are both growing at the same time together, and influencing each other's growth.  Mysteriously effecting each other chemically, and in ways that afterward, are more permanent as your brains both end and finish that development period.

That may be why the bond is so strangely deep and strong, and it may have been what has helped us not divorce when things get tough, because we know and have witnessed each other's maturity and growth and have more faith in each other than if I'd come into this relationship right now, at age 34.

Actually, I agree with you. I posted that list of couples the other day. Well, four of those couples were together from their teens ( ages 15 - 16). Three are divorced, but of those three, two got remarried (and one got divorced again after two more years (he was an addict)))! If that doesn't prove that they grew together--fused together (for better or for worse)--I don't know what does!

Some of them stayed far too long in those relationships because of that bond. But at least one couple (possibly two) has reaped the benefit of knowing and trusting each other deeply.

They were intense relationships. My own major teenage relationship was intense as well. It was beautiful. He and I pictured and planned our future together. But then I started to change.

[Seraphim]

My parents were a teenage romance but it was an utter disaster. My brother and I were born of that disaster and suffer still today because of that disaster. It is not always a good time. My parents loved each other very intensely but my dad was so severely mentally ill that nothing good could have come of it. 

[Jibralta]

1 minute ago, Seraphim said:

It is not always not always a good time. 

Oh, I agree heartily. I think a good marriage born of a teenage romance is the exception to the rule. 

[Seraphim]

I am not saying all young relationships are bad but what I am saying is that you don’t necessarily have the skills to make a proper choice.