OLD & LDR - help me!

[bluecastle]

Someone who purposefully reaches out father so that they can have the trappings of a relationship digitally, without everything that would come with it locally. The safety behind the screen sort of thing. I can see that being true of this guy more than any of the other stuff.

 

Are you not (cough, cough) describing yourself here?

[FirstDates]

I can see why you might say that Bluecastle.

 

Not in the area of motivation. If there was someone locally that I was interested in and it was mutual, I would obviously choose the local option. My shift into even being willing to entertain this kind of relationship is a new development. I don't see anyone around me that I am remotely interested in at this point. I wish that weren't the case.

 

I'm far more about knowing people intellectually and listening to their stories, I value emotional closeness over cuddling etc. so the idea of a distance doesn't bother me in the way it might others. Obviously, I would not intend for that to be a 'forever' thing but in the intermediate, it would be alright with me. I also, imagine making recipes together over a webcam, or watching a movie at the same time. But maybe I'm a total loon, as I can't even get a phone call, let alone the rest of it!

[Wiseman2]

Is he married/living with someone?

He contacted me via a dating site, we then traded emails through the site and then jumped to a messaging app.

 

We had aimed to set up a phone conversation. It happened to fall on his work trip

[FirstDates]

Is he married/living with someone?

 

I honestly don’t believe so, nothing would indicate that.

 

How sure would I be? 99.5% regarding that specifically.

 

He’d more likely fall in the computery/geeky/gamer category than the player one (not that they have to be mutually exclusive— but some how often are)

[Annia]

Bluecastle, we are a fair distance apart, a plane flight. I would want to know him really well before the next step.

 

Thanks Melancholy, I like your sober thoughts on this.

 

Why not going for local men instead who you can meet in person and get to know each other in person?

 

Or if you want to keep on talking to him don't over invest nor expect anything without having a handful of in person time together.

[katrina1980]

FD, I have a question for ya that may require some introspection and emotional honesty on your part, but do you think it's possible you're not (or rarely, never?) attracted or interested in local men precisely because they're local?

 

Reason I ask is I found your comment about valuing emotional closeness over physical closeness (cuddling for example) quite telling.

 

In a very long distance relationship, one can almost guarantee there won't be any or very little physical closeness, nor would there be the obligations or dare I say pressure to deliver that a local relationship would require. Including a physical relationship.

 

Perhaps this suits you better? That way you can devote all your energy to the emotional, which in your case, having never met, is built more on a fantasy than reality.

 

This is what draws you and Mr. Different Country together, like attracts like after all.

 

Another question, have you ever had a long term committed relationship with a local man? If so, how did you feel while in that relationship? Did you feel stifled, boxed in so to speak? How did it end?

 

Ideally, in a good healthy relationship both the emotional closeness and physical closeness are there working in conjunction with each other which builds true intimacy between a couple (emotional, physical, sexual). A couple values both equally.

 

Imo you can't build intimacy with someone who lives thousands of miles away in a different country whom you will never or very rarely be able to see and spend time w in person.

 

People w intimacy and commitment issues often prefer that physical distance, safety behind the screen as you said.

[Andrina]

If you're not meeting local men who interest you, you probably need to expand the activities you do so you can meet them. Ideas? A book discussion group. Volunteer at a local museum or zoo. Take dance lessons. On meet up.com, there are activity groups who meet--some specifically for singles in particular age groups, and some that are open to everyone.

 

Try watching 90 Day Fiance to become aware of the struggles people face when uprooted from their homes for a relationship. The fun excitement of matching with an exotic foreigner only lasts until the hard reality hits. Relationships are difficult enough to navigate without throwing in the major hurdles of a LDR.

[FirstDates]

Thanks Annia,

 

I agree with the second bit especially

[Batya33]

I would not invest this much time in meeting a stranger where a plane flight is required especially if you're already annoyed about the reliability. And I was in an LDR with my husband for 2-3 years while we were dating -and even sort of when we were first married! And the only reason I was open to it was because (1) we'd dated in the past and knew each other really well; (2) he was really good at keeping in touch; (3) we both wanted marriage; (4) we could fly to see each other about every 11 days; and (5) I was prepared to relocate if we married (and I did relocate). Lots of conditions because relationships are hard enough without the distance factor.

[FirstDates]

Thanks Katrina,

 

I have certainly reflected on your question.

 

I think it might be a little out of context. When I said my comment about valuing emotional closeness over physical closeness (cuddling for example), I was meaning initially in a relationship. I would also add that spiritually is a very big part of what I am looking for.

 

Another piece of the equation is that because of my beliefs things like sex aren’t happening until marriage anyways. A lot of people I do life with have their first kiss on their wedding day.

 

For this reason an in person relationship would also be far less physical than most.

 

I hope that helps!

[FirstDates]

I would not invest this much time in meeting a stranger where a plane flight is required especially if you're already annoyed about the reliability. And I was in an LDR with my husband for 2-3 years while we were dating -and even sort of when we were first married! And the only reason I was open to it was because (1) we'd dated in the past and knew each other really well; (2) he was really good at keeping in touch; (3) we both wanted marriage; (4) we could fly to see each other about every 11 days; and (5) I was prepared to relocate if we married (and I did relocate). Lots of conditions because relationships are hard enough without the distance factor.

 

 

Thanks,

 

How much did that kind of travel cost you?

[Batya33]

Thanks Katrina,

 

I have certainly reflected on your question.

 

I think it might be a little out of context. When I said my comment about valuing emotional closeness over physical closeness (cuddling for example), I was meaning initially in a relationship. I would also add that spiritually is a very big part of what I am looking for.

 

Another piece of the equation is that because of my beliefs things like sex aren’t happening until marriage anyways. A lot of people I do life with have their first kiss on their wedding day.

 

For this reason an in person relationship would also be far less physical than most.

 

I hope that helps!

 

Well no I think with all respect you're not getting the importance of physical closeness. Sex and cuddling is a small part of it. It's because you need to get to know the person in person to be emotionally close in a romantic relationship. In a relationship where you're going to eventually share physical space whether on a date or living together or on vacation. I have very close friends I have never met. Romantic relationships are different. They have to have a significant in person component. Yes, kissing and touching is part of it -for sure! But it's because romantic partners are not in a romantic relationship if they do not spend time together in person. That might be a chat buddy who you sext with, etc but it's not a romantic partner. If you want to have a romantic partner you have to develop emotional closeness while in person - you also get close while not in person but it has to be both IMO.

 

Example. I need -I mean desperately need! - my space for a certain time in the morning - a weekday morning when I've been up for 2 hours prepping for the school bus, taking my child to the bus stop then no matter how i feel doing my daily work out - and after that it is nirvana, heavenly -to have my quiet time to brew my coffee and finally eat my breakfast in peace. Sounds small but it's huge to me.

 

99.9% of the time my husband is still sleeping. Today he had to get up to make his flight. I didn't know in advance. And I didn't want to be harsh with him or even blunt but inside I was like "please please I need my space right now!" (not because it's him - from anyone in the universe). I said as neutrally as possible that I was surprised to see him up this early.

 

And he sensed it - he changed his schedule so that I would have my time to make my coffee and have the small kitchen to myself -and he was quiet while getting ready and gave me my space. My heart overflows from stuff like this. And guess what - if we weren't physically close he would never know this, he would never get this, he would never know how to show his love and care and respect of me at this time of day. That's what emotional closeness is and that is one example of SO MANY as to why you should never ever dismiss the importance of physical closeness. One of many.

[katrina1980]

Thanks Katrina,

 

I have certainly reflected on your question.

 

I think it might be a little out of context. When I said my comment about valuing emotional closeness over physical closeness (cuddling for example), I was meaning initially in a relationship. I would also add that spiritually is a very big part of what I am looking for.

 

Another piece of the equation is that because of my beliefs things like sex aren’t happening until marriage anyways. A lot of people I do life with have their first kiss on their wedding day.

 

For this reason an in person relationship would also be far less physical than most.

 

I hope that helps!

 

Actually it didn't. And I don't think you truly understood the context of my post or what I was asking, which is okay, it's often difficult to express oneself on a forum like this; words can be quite ambiguous.

 

Anyway, in my opinion, choosing to engage in an on line interaction like this, what you're actually valuing is fantasy versus reality. As having never met in person, that's what this is -- a fantasy.

 

How could it be anything else? You've never met, you've never experienced "reality" together, just an on line interaction wherein you share certain aspects of yourselves, hide certain aspects of yourselves, and spend the rest of the time filling in the blanks with your own idealized versions of each other.

 

I'm not judging (although it may seem that way), I've done it myself and actually learned a lot from it, about myself, relationships, and what true intimacy entails. Emotional, physical, and spiritual.

 

I omitted sexual, as after thinking more about it, depending on one's beliefs, like yours, the sex actually isn't necessary as long as all the other components are there.

 

But cuddling together, being close, sharing time and space, that's all part of it.

 

In fact I often feel more emotionally and spiritually close to my boyfriend when lying together, let's say at the park under a tree, or at the ocean watching the sunset or sunrise, not saying a word, but simply "being" close, enjoying nature and each other. It's quite intimate.

 

Anyway, not judging to each his own. If this works for you, who am I too judge. It's your life.

 

Good luck.

[Batya33]

"I'm not judging (although it may seem that way), I've done it myself and actually learned a lot from it, about myself, relationships, and what true intimacy entails. Emotional, physical, and spiritual.

 

I omitted sexual, as after thinking more about it, depending on one's beliefs, like yours, the sex actually isn't necessary as long as all the other components are there.

 

But cuddling together, being close, sharing time and space, that's all part of it.

 

In fact I often feel more emotionally and spiritually close to my boyfriend when lying together, let's say at the park under a tree, or at the ocean watching the sunset or sunrise, not saying a word, but simply "being" close, enjoying nature and each other. It's quite intimate."

 

 

I know of several people who waited for marriage. I was planning on it in my teens and 20s. And what is still essential is in-person chemistry and the desire to be sexual whether you are sexual or not.

[abitbroken]

Thanks Katrina,

 

I have certainly reflected on your question.

 

I think it might be a little out of context. When I said my comment about valuing emotional closeness over physical closeness (cuddling for example), I was meaning initially in a relationship. I would also add that spiritually is a very big part of what I am looking for.

 

Another piece of the equation is that because of my beliefs things like sex aren’t happening until marriage anyways. A lot of people I do life with have their first kiss on their wedding day.

 

For this reason an in person relationship would also be far less physical than most.

 

I hope that helps!

 

Here's another take. I do not know anyone who has had their first kiss on their wedding day. I do know plenty of people who have not had sex until their wedding day. I will say if you choose either route, proximity is important - to know how they treat their family, to observe what kind of person they are. They can give all the money and time in the world to a charitable cause and adopt 15 orphans, but if they talk to their mom and sisters in a ty way, and the waitress in a ty way, it doesn't matter. You have no idea what a guy in another country is actually like.

 

I agree that expanding your geographic area is a good thing to find more men who are waiting, to, or are newly waiting - but expanding georgraphy is meeting men who live within an hour from you or if you are off the beaten path maybe 3 hours - not around the world.

[FirstDates]

Here's another take. I do not know anyone who has had their first kiss on their wedding day. I do know plenty of people who have not had sex until their wedding day. I will say if you choose either route, proximity is important - to know how they treat their family, to observe what kind of person they are. They can give all the money and time in the world to a charitable cause and adopt 15 orphans, but if they talk to their mom and sisters in a ty way, and the waitress in a ty way, it doesn't matter. You have no idea what a guy in another country is actually like.

 

I agree that expanding your geographic area is a good thing to find more men who are waiting, to, or are newly waiting - but expanding georgraphy is meeting men who live within an hour from you or if you are off the beaten path maybe 3 hours - not around the world.

 

I so agree, I’m not planning to marry the man sight unseen lol. I feel like that it what a few of you are imagining!

 

But I will never see any guy in my kitchen first thing I wake up either until marriage.

 

How people treat people is very important to me and I think impossible to fake over a duration of time. For these reasons I think one could get a sense while visiting one another. Maybe not in one trip but certainly over time.

[katrina1980]

So have you been messaging w him?

 

Did he schedule another phone call?

 

When does he plan to move back to the states?

 

Believe it or not, I'm rooting for this to somehow miraculously work!

[Batya33]

I so agree, I’m not planning to marry the man sight unseen lol. I feel like that it what a few of you are imagining!

 

But I will never see any guy in my kitchen first thing I wake up either until marriage.

 

How people treat people is very important to me and I think impossible to fake over a duration of time. For these reasons I think one could get a sense while visiting one another. Maybe not in one trip but certainly over time.

 

Over time if you see each other regularly. No need to have a sleepover. You will not get to know him over time if you see him only occasionally. You have to see him when he is feeling great, and sick, when he is with his family and friends, during special occasions and when he has had a bad day at work, like someone else wrote, how he deals with waitstaff and other service people especially when in a bad mood. So you want to see someone about once a week over time in order to get to know the real person.

[FirstDates]

So have you been messaging w him?

 

Did he schedule another phone call?

 

When does he plan to move back to the states?

 

Believe it or not, I'm rooting for this to somehow miraculously work!

 

Yes, to messaging. I think he feels really bad, and I may have been more direct than might be advised. Oh well, he knows where I stand.

 

We both agreed not to bother setting another phone call up until after this week/weekend is over.

 

Not a glutton for punishment!

 

Don’t root too hard, I’m still feeling super confused about what’s best. I really don’t want to get too attached and regret it later.

[Wiseman2]

Is this a marriage seeking site? Are arranged marriages part of your culture? Is it possible to meet men through your religious group/services who are local?

 

I would also add that spiritually is a very big part of what I am looking for.

 

Another piece of the equation is that because of my beliefs things like sex aren’t happening until marriage anyways. A lot of people I do life with have their first kiss on their wedding day.

[FirstDates]

Is this a marriage seeking site? Are arranged marriages part of your culture? Is it possible to meet men through your religious group/services who are local?

 

It’s not a marriage seeking site in the way I think you are meaning but the majority of the men and women are likely to list themselves under “serious relationships only” or a “looking for marriage” status.

 

Arranged marriages aren’t.

 

Local men. Not at present. I try my best to engage with men that could be options. I’ve even asked a local guy with the same faith (who seemed like a good match in real life) out for coffee back in February. He was not interested, but I was glad to have the information. And I felt like it was growth on my part personally, being more assertive, regardless of his answer.

[abitbroken]

It’s not a marriage seeking site in the way I think you are meaning but the majority of the men and women are likely to list themselves under “serious relationships only” or a “looking for marriage” status.

 

Arranged marriages aren’t.

 

Local men. Not at present. I try my best to engage with men that could be options. I’ve even asked a local guy with the same faith (who seemed like a good match in real life) out for coffee back in February. He was not interested, but I was glad to have the information. And I felt like it was growth on my part personally, being more assertive, regardless of his answer.

 

This guy you asked out - did you just go up to him cold?

 

The best thing to do - particularly if you are looking for men that may be a bit more traditional - is to *not* ask a guy out. I know that sounds weird. But instead, give him the "green light". When you give the green light, you are kind of asking him out -- but its HIS idea-- and if he is not interested in you or is interested in someone else, he quite simply just won't bite - but honestly, sometimes you have to cultivate it and give a guy the green light more than once. he might have been caught off guard the first time, but then his wheels are turning and the second time he asks you out.

 

For example, you are talking to a guy and he is talking about this really cool museum and you say "oh, i have always wanted to go there...i just think its less enoyable to go by myself" "i have always wanted to try (thing he is talking about)...." Give him a wide opening and it may take him awhile, but if you were on his radar - he WILL ask you out- maybe just not that day. you can still "seal the deal" with the logistics (day, time) after he extends the invite because it was actually your idea all along.

 

If you want to just play the numbers game and ask guys out - that's fine, but a guy who is not interested in you but is interested in the activity may say "yes", but it won't be a date -- and you want a guy who is interested.

[katrina1980]

 

It’s not a marriage seeking site in the way I think you are meaning but the majority of the men and women are likely to list themselves under “serious relationships only” or a “looking for marriage” status.

 

 

Given this^ disclosure, I just find it so odd that a man who lives thousands of miles away in a different country would reach out to you.

 

I mean logically, it's simply not realistic for anyone to think that a "serious relationship" or "marriage" could develop between two people who lives thousands of miles away from each other.

 

I am wondering, have you thought to ask him, given the fact it's a "serious relationship/marriage" seeking site essentially, why he chose to reach out to you? What he hoped to achieve by it? I know I would, if for no other reason I'd be damn curious.

 

On the other hand, if he were simply looking to interact on line with American woman because he's a bit homesick (as you stated earlier), and perhaps get together whenever he manages to be back in the states, or until he eventually moves back, that would make more sense, which is fine, as long as the woman (in this case you) is okay with that arrangement.

 

But a man looking for a serious relationship leading to marriage? Again it just makes no sense to me, especially given the fact he can't even manage a simple phone call.

[FirstDates]

Hey abitbroken: All good questions, no I thought I was giving him signals and I also obviously misread what I thought were his signals. He was opening up about a few family related personal tragedies. I read that as vulnerability, I think he doesn’t have a great filter and treats everyone like a close friend upon meeting them. He’s a bit eccentric, I figured I’d put it out there and see. He wasn’t interested, I just figured he might have thought I was out of his league, so wasn’t approaching ‘romanctically’ I Read it wrong that was all.

[abitbroken]

Hey abitbroken: All good questions, no I thought I was giving him signals and I also obviously misread what I thought were his signals. He was opening up about a few family related personal tragedies. I read that as vulnerability, I think he doesn’t have a great filter and treats everyone like a close friend upon meeting them. He’s a bit eccentric, I figured I’d put it out there and see. He wasn’t interested, I just figured he might have thought I was out of his league, so wasn’t approaching ‘romanctically’ I Read it wrong that was all.

 

If someone is opening up about a personal tragedy -- just listen if its appropriate. Also, if you took crying on someone's shoulder (figuritively, of course,) as a green light for romance - are you a bit of a "fixer" - look for men who are projects and don't look for someone who is generally happy/well rounded? If i was pouring my heart out about the death of a grandparent or something tragic that happened before i was born or something, that would not be me laying a pickup line or something. He is an oversharer and has poor boundaries. Why would you want to date someone like that? He gave no green lights at all.