Am I delusional for staying?

[Hollyj]

For the people that suggested counseling, been there done that. And I stayed single for a long time after my last relationship. I was single for 3 years and concentrated on myself. When I met my current boyfriend, I thought he was great. We dont live together because he believes we are not at that stage yet. He is great in other aspects. He's very clean, he cooks, he's very mild mannered. I don't think I've ever seen him mad. Even when I discuss issues with him, he's very non chalant. He said it takes a lot for him to get angry which was a breath of fresh air from my previous relationship who was willing to fight and argue with anyone who does not agree with his opinion.

 

Yes, I agree. This is my own self made hell. If I don't know all the stuff he does behind my back, I would be clueless and just think everything is fine. Let me also mention that from the very beginning, he told me I can go through his phone at any given time because he had nothing to hide. I guess he didn't think I would actually do it.

 

During our first year of dating, he was laid off, I helped support him and paid some of his bills, because again, that's what partners do. I did not once complain about doing any of that for him. But now he owes me a little under 10k and still I give him time to pay. Meanwhile, he's planning all this party trips with his friends and willing to spend all his money on alcohol, gambling, and strippers instead of paying me back first. Yes I know, I'm an idiot. But please be gentle. Because I am really struggling.

 

Really! You have been supporting this guy the majority of the time! Not only is a lying cheat, he is also a parasite. And, he spends the money on alcohol an gambling. You really need to wake up! Good Lord, your self esteem is in the toilet.

 

Lastly, I would NOT support anyone I was dating. i would help support my husband if he were out of work temporarily, but not a bf. I am not his mother. Your thinking is really off. Why would ever think think that you are supposed to support him? Especially, since you started dating. Shaking head.

 

He does not care about or respect you.

[nutbrownhare]

I feel like I give and give and give just to make him happy. I always had this stupid belief that if you give it your all in a relationship, then your partner should too. Because that is afterall what you're suppose to have, A PARTNERSHIP. Obviously that belief is false because somehow, I haven't met a man who is mature enough to have a real relationship. My bf is in his late 30s. I know maturity has nothing to do with age, but it still stings when you show someone you love them and you dont get the same respect in return.

 

I believe, too, you should give and give in a relationship. With some qualifications. When you start to sense that gut feeling that you are being taken advantage of, it's time to quit with the giving. When you find yourself giving, not freely, but in the hope of receiving something in return, it's time to quit with the giving. Then it means your giving is actually an unacknowledged bribe, to make up for deficiencies you unconsciously think you lack. It's manipulative and will ultimately leave you feeling empty and victimised.

 

The best relationships are where both parties are givers, and you have established quite clearly that he is a taker. This is who he is - and it's not going to change.

 

Other than that, you don't trust him - and with good reason. To be honest, it sounds as though you're hanging on in a relationship where you're eating your heart out and getting very little apart from pain - and waiting and hoping he'll change and then you can be happy. I wonder if you have internalised some messages about the way relationships are, and the way men are, which are really not serving you well. If you were looking at guys in their late teens, then you wouldn't expect to find someone 'mature enough to have a real relationship'; but two decades later there should be plenty of them around.

 

People who are more emotionally healthy will sense the neediness behind the giving, and it will feel like a trap to them; they will intuitively avoid, which is probably why your experience of men has been so disappointing.

 

Where it all needs to start is with your own sense of self, and having confidence in that. This is not going to happen while you're involved with a guy like this.

 

P.S. If you've had counselling, and still find it difficult to shake off a relationship like this, think about joining one of the 12-Step Programs. If other people's drinking/drug abuse has been a feature of your life, try Alanon. If not, and your only issue is the desire to have healthy relationships, try CoDA. My experience was that I'd had years of therapy, but it was only in these programs that the real, underlying issues were really addressed. And they're free!

[Wiseman2]

It may be time to reflect and reconsider why you are in this "relationship" and why you don't end it and pursue something more satisfying and less "exhausting and tiring".

I don't want to be another fool that believes everything that is said to me.

 

It's tiring and exhausting.

 

Having someone who is so nice in person, and yet so deceiving and act like a complete pig behind your back.

[DancingFool]

I wouldn't call it a trap. I had a feeling that he was already talking to someone for this trip. And I just did what I did going he would turn the fake girl down, I would've been happy. Obviously, it didn't turn out that way.

 

OK, but when it didn't turn out that way, why did you stay anyway? This is the critical question you must answer for yourself and figure out. What is it that hooks you and keeps you stuck in these bad relationships with cheaters?

[Jewels465]

I don’t believe this is your fault or anything you have done wrong. So sorry you’re struggling.

 

This situation isn’t likely to improve. The trust is already broken. What is a relationship without trust? Do you really want to go through this all of the time?

 

You deserve for someone to treat you right. Don’t settle for this. Have a talk with him about your relationship and how you feel..about the sex and just him overall disrespecting you. Never tell him about reading the messages. You don t want to tip your hand..that’s always a bad idea.....always trust your gut. Your gut is telling you he’s not right for you..I would listen to that..

[tired123]

I don’t believe this is your fault or anything you have done wrong. So sorry you’re struggling.

 

This situation isn’t likely to improve. The trust is already broken. What is a relationship without trust? Do you really want to go through this all of the time?

 

You deserve for someone to treat you right. Don’t settle for this. Have a talk with him about your relationship and how you feel..about the sex and just him overall disrespecting you. Never tell him about reading the messages. You don t want to tip your hand..that’s always a bad idea.....always trust your gut. Your gut is telling you he’s not right for you..I would listen to that..

 

We've had a handful of conversation about this. I am a very mild mannered person and I approach situations like this logically even though I am hurting inside. I had explained to him how I feel about our sexual life. I told him that looking at those perfect looking Instagram hookers all day with layers and layers of make up and Photoshop would eventually make you think that all woman are suppose to be like that. And then you would look at me and think that I'm not good enough. I am not ugly in anyway, but you get my point. But he said it had nothing to do with that and it is just strictly guys locker room talk. These are all guys he's known since college and apparently none of them grew up and matured. He would always apologize and admit that he is wrong and he understands where I'm coming from. But then, does the same thing over again a week later. I do believe that his friends encourages this type of behavior, which really does not help our situation.

 

I thought about my situation all day even while I am at work. And I really am not at all happy. And there's really nothing left for me to do but to walk away. I can blame him all I want for being the kind of immature pig that he is, but it's my choice to stick around. So I get it, either I live miserably for the rest of my life or walk away and deal with the pain for the time being and eventually time will heal.

[bluecastle]

Simply put, there is a better person for you—the kind of person, in short, that you've spent some misguided energy in trying to will this guy into.

 

And, keeping things gentle, I think you're going to find him only once you do a little more self-work—namely, working to understand why you continuously reinvested in this guy.

 

I say that with a big hug, please know. I've been in relationships that don't made sense, doubled down on them to find sense, gotten a little lost. You're not alone in any of it, but it's time to dig deep to understand what's going on under the hood.

[Hollyj]

Get some counseling to understand why you put yourself in this position. This guy is a real scumbag!

[Sportster2005]

I found out that he had a threesome with his bestfriend and his wife and is still open to doing again according to the texts that I’ve seen on his phone. He of course denies all of it and chucks it up as just normal guys talk.

There's nothing wrong with consenting adults having a threesome. It's wrong to lie about it and chalk it up to 'normal guy talk'.

clearly making sure that her breasts was rubbing against his arm. I was like “what the hell is going on!?” Later on,

Tips

 

He admittedly slept with over 80 women and I know he believes it’s an accomplishment as he was just living his college life and having fun partying.

This sounds like the boast from a very insecure young boy. I doubt if it's true. If it is, and I was a woman, I could understand the icky factor.

Lately, our sex life have been very non-existent. We use to have sex a lot since he always bragged about having a high libido. But for the past 6 months or more, I have been the one to initiate any sexual activity and 90% of the time I get turned down (whether it’s because he’s too tired, too full, too late in the night, or just not in the mood)

Doesn't sound like a male that has bonked 80 females.

However, on his group texts with his “boys”, they always send each other pictures of Instagram wannabe “models” and tells each other which one they would and how these girls are so hot and he would “lick them all day”. I have brought that up with him before and again, he chucks it up as just boy’s talk

Yes he behaves like a boy.

 

I’m just so frustrated and just want a man who know respect and actually care about their SO and not have eyes and lustful thoughts towards other women. Is that too much to ask nowadays?

 

They're not mutually exclusive. Men, presumably women, find others attractive and are allowed to let their thoughts wander. I doubt it can be controlled. Don't confuse that with some jack****** commenting on Instagram models.

 

Yes, you're delusional for staying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it is too much to ask. At least part of it. Having desirous/lustful thoughts of other people is a fact of life. Yes you can find a respectful man. But make no mistake, he will have lustful eyes and lustful thoughts of other women. But, he should do that in the privacy of his mind. Commenting the way he does with other men borders on misogyny. Men who love women and respect women don't behave this way.

[abitbroken]

Him looking at women with lots of makeup online is the very least of the issues -- in fact -- you are choosing an insignificant issue or non-issue to address vs a real one. My guy looking at picture of actresses and models online does not hurt our relationship one bit or make him care for me less. What would make our relationship miserable is if he sent photos of his parts to women and cheated on me. And that is the second biggest problem. The first biggest is after seeing a HUGE red flag and huge stop sign, you somehow forced this relationship to work instead of leaving before the relationship was in full swing. I would not enter into another relationship after this for awhile -- i would not date --- maybe a year later go on coffee dates -- remember you are valuable and you don't have to say yes to the first guy who takes interest. He probably saw in you someone who wouldn't care if cheated and carried on with other women --- and he likes that about you. because you don't care - you don't leave -- and you only have bones to pick with the most perifery issues.

[tired123]

he will have lustful eyes and lustful thoughts of other women. But, he should do that in the privacy of his mind. Commenting the way he does with other men borders on misogyny. Men who love women and respect women don't behave this way.

 

This is my whole point. Which this boy obviously doesn't see. It takes a certain level of maturity to understand the difference.

[Wiseman2]

Because he doesn't want to and doesn't need to because you keep sticking around and putting up with it.

Which this boy obviously doesn't see.

[figureitout23]

We've had a handful of conversation about this. I am a very mild mannered person and I approach situations like this logically even though I am hurting inside. I had explained to him how I feel about our sexual life. I told him that looking at those perfect looking Instagram hookers all day with layers and layers of make up and Photoshop would eventually make you think that all woman are suppose to be like that. And then you would look at me and think that I'm not good enough. I am not ugly in anyway, but you get my point. But he said it had nothing to do with that and it is just strictly guys locker room talk. These are all guys he's known since college and apparently none of them grew up and matured. He would always apologize and admit that he is wrong and he understands where I'm coming from. But then, does the same thing over again a week later. I do believe that his friends encourages this type of behavior, which really does not help our situation.

 

I thought about my situation all day even while I am at work. And I really am not at all happy. And there's really nothing left for me to do but to walk away. I can blame him all I want for being the kind of immature pig that he is, but it's my choice to stick around. So I get it, either I live miserably for the rest of my life or walk away and deal with the pain for the time being and eventually time will heal.

 

Look I like what you wrote but it was still pretty delusional.

 

First you're villainizing women. Look girl it’s not any woman especially an Instagram models fault your boyfriend can’t keep it in his pants.

 

I’m sorry if that was harsh but again it’s the thinking process of a woman who stays with a cheat. It’s misdirecting the blame and noticing the mouse while the elephant suffocates you. You’re worried about Instagram when the dude is screwing real life actual girls.

 

And you say you’re logical... there is NOTHING logical about a woman demanding her boyfriend not look at women online. It reeks of insecurity and again the irony isbyoure worried about Instagram when he’s screwing real life other women you know about.

 

Face reality, please. He’s a pig and a cheat, you put up with it because you have low self esteem

 

 

Be single and work on yourself or you will attract the same guy. Ironically women who don’t trust seem to attract untrustworthy men. Don’t understand the science behind it, just know it’s a fact.

[bluecastle]

Ironically women who don’t trust seem to attract untrustworthy men. Don’t understand the science behind it, just know it’s a fact.

 

The science, I think, is actually kind of simple.

 

If you don't trust—which is to say you believe people and/or the opposite sex is untrustworthy—you're going to seek out people who support your world view. You go into the shade, search for the snakes, and when you get bitten you can say, "See! They're all snakes!" And, in that, find a very misguided form of power and comfort.

 

You get to be "right," even if the cost is being wronged.

[katrina1980]

That's interesting bc.

 

Could it also be possible for a distrustful insecure person to manifest their own negative experiences?

 

Meaning their own distrust and insecurity might cause/turn an otherwise trustful partner into a distrustful one by virture of their own needy, insecure behavior, unwarranted accusations etc?

 

Their partner becomes turned off, loses interest, and thus begins behaving "shady" (in their insecure partner's eyes)' which only serves to increase the person's distrust after which he/she can cry -- see I knew he/she wasn't to be trusted!!

 

When it was their own distrustful and insecure behavior that caused it, the very thing they feared and were trying to avoid.

 

A self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts?

[katrina1980]

There was a thread recently created (no names) by a woman who creates her own negative experiences by behaving in ways that would cause the most decent trustful man to become turned off and act "shady" in her eyes.

 

She then creates a thread asking why all men are d-bags who can't be trusted and ultimately reject her.

 

Not even realizing it was her own insecure, distrustful behaviour that caused their rejection.

[figureitout23]

That's interesting bc.

 

Could it also be possible for a distrustful insecure person to manifest their own negative experiences?

 

Meaning their own distrust and insecurity might cause/turn an otherwise trustful partner into a distrustful one by virture of their own needy, insecure behavior, unwarranted accusations etc?

 

Their partner becomes turned off, loses interest, and thus begins behaving "shady" (in their insecure partner's eyes)' which only serves to increase the person's distrust after which he/she can cry -- see I knew he/she wasn't to be trusted!!

 

When it was their own distrustful and insecure behavior that caused it, the very thing they feared and were trying to avoid.

 

A self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts?

 

I agree, makes perfect sense BC

 

As for the self fulfilling prophecy I think that only works with children. what I mean is stricter parents tend to have sneakier children. They create what they’re trying to prevent.

 

When it comes to partners. I think it drives away non shady people.

 

I mentioned briefly that’s why i broke it off with the guy I was dating in 2017, at first it was cute, then he got warned about it last time I was done. It’s not at all fun to deal with, if I’m not doing anything to be considered untrustworthy but you’re accusing me of it anyway, no thanks it gets old quick. I think it drives trustworthy people away while untrustworthy people are like ‘hey! I found a sparing partner!’ They kinda need eachoher I think. Kinda like a version of codependency.

[katrina1980]

 

[When it comes to partners. I think it drives away non shady people.

 

I mentioned briefly that’s why i broke it off with the guy I was dating in 2017, at first it was cute, then he got warned about it last time I was done. It’s not at all fun to deal with, if I’m not doing anything to be considered untrustworthy but you’re accusing me of it anyway, no thanks it gets old quick.

 

This^ is exactly what I meant though fio. I mean like exactly.

 

You were trustworthy and liked him, but your partner's insecurites and distrust drove you away.

 

So now in his insecure distrustful mind, you were not to be trusted after all, because you broke up with him, thus confirming his fears. And he can continue to play victim. Crying no woman can be trusted!

 

Not realizing it was his own insecure distrustful behaviour that drove you away. His own behaviour drove him to the very thing he feared the most and was insecure about.

[katrina1980]

What bc posted makes sense, and happens. Except I am wondering how someone consciously (or subconsciously?) searches out shady people, do they carry a certain vibe or something? Beware, I am not to be trusted! Lol

 

Distrustful shady people are experts at putting up a good front, getting people to trust them.

 

Then once that happens -- they earn their partners trust -- their true colours begin to surface, but by then the distrustful person is already attached.

[bluecastle]

What bc posted makes sense, and happens. Except I am wondering how someone consciously (or subconsciously?) searches out shady people, do they carry a certain vibe or something? Beware, I am not to be trusted! Lol

 

Distrustful shady people are experts at putting up a good front, getting people to trust them.

 

Then once that happens -- they earn their partners trust -- their true colours begin to surface, but by then the distrustful person is already attached.

 

Alright, I'll go here a bit more, in relation to this thread.

 

Not to throw a wrench into things, but from what OP has described this guy's behavior isn't really cheating. Piggish? Sure. Basic? No doubt. Sh*t bf material? Duh. But repeatedly seeking out and putting it in places not her on a sociopath level? No.

 

Maybe—maybe—there was some blurred-lines stuff during that early trip. As in: yeah, maybe he kind of "freaked out" about getting into something exclusive, made out and/or did whatever with an old hookup flame, then got back into things, committed.

 

I'm not giving any of that a pass, but she did. She was "cool" with overlooking and/or addressing—except, well, she was not.

 

Why am I rehashing this?

 

Because not being cool with it was (I believe) what she (subconsciously) wanted, not just from him, but from dating in general. That's the power move, the move that reinforces a preconceived idea of men/people, which is the glue here. Dude has hardly put up a "front" of being trustworthy—shade worn on sleeve, from day one, and seen in snooping since.

 

There was never trust, and that's the point. It is/was the lack of trust (and respect) that allowed the attachment to foster. Without that lack of trust—well, there's no there there.

 

Look at the way she's described him. The bartender moment, say. In another (trusting) dynamic that's kind of whatever—some flighty who-cares that he hooked up with before he knew she existed and, yeah, she works at bar—and, yeah, for maybe a millisecond he liked some attention with a spilled drink. Not loaded, in short. Who, after all, was he with? Who, after all, did he go home with? Her.

 

Meanwhile, who he is, where he's been before her—all that equals "man wh*re ." That he likes to look at pretty things on social media, behavior that puts him in a large subset of his gender—but, no, further evidence of his pathology, his shade, the very thing she wants to keep excavating.

 

Because in that excavation there is power. False power, of course, because the price of it is pain and self-disempowerment. But it's the subconscious seeking out that power, that affirmation that men/people suck. The point of dating, really, is to keep affirming that.

 

Think he doesn't know this is happening, consciously or not? Of course he does! And he has been trained to supply that power, in return for his own power. He is rewarded for being shady, and so he gets shadier. He is rewarded for being distrustful, and so he is never straightforward.

 

It is a relationship that "works" because neither party ever has to look at themselves straight on in the mirror and address their own cracks.

 

If on a shadiness sale of 1 to 10 he was a 4 when they met, being with her has brought him to an 8. If her level of distrust was at 4, being with him brought it back to a 9. What "works" is that they stir their bad sh*t, bring it to the surface.

 

Psych 101. Toxic 101.

 

It's what FiO's man was trying to do—he was trying to excavate her shade, because that was his "comfort" zone. But, alas, FiO (love ya!) has lived a life and is bored of BS. She didn't want to play the role of mirror to his BS. She wanted to be, you know, herself, the non-shady person she is and values and wants valued back. He, on the other hand, needed her to be distrustful in order to keep attaching...

[katrina1980]

That's some deep stuff bc, but in reading OP's initial post again, I see your point and fio's.

 

I'm still a bit confused how she subconsciously searched him out though.

 

But the fact she stayed after discovering what a distrustful shady character he was would certainly suggest she enjoys (and feels comfortable with) this sort of dynamic at least on some level, albeit subconsciously.

 

I played the "cool girl" with my long term ex, but it wasn't any sort of power play on my part, I simply lacked proper boundaries back then, so adjusted and actually convinced myself I was cool with everything.

 

Back then I described our relationship as nearly perfect (on a different forum). Major denial on my part. I describe it now as living in never-never land for almost six years.

 

Nothing like what this guy did though, not even close. Even back then, and lack of strong boundaries, I never would have tolerated that. Dealbreaker, done, next even though I was crazy in love with him.

 

So yeah, I get it bc, thanks for taking the time to clarify further.