already arguing - should I run away?

[boltnrun]

I had an ex who insisted the ONLY way to have hot sex was to have a huge fight first. The ONLY good sex was make up sex, according to him.

 

I disagree.

 

But maybe you find her exciting because she's difficult. Some people get off on that.

[milly007]

I think katrina and boltnrun are onto something.

[AleSommacal]

It's all the tension, frustration, anxiety, that creates that feeling in you.

 

I couldn't agree more. The worst thing is - she's so cynical and detached. Almost emotionless when we are apart.

 

And it makes me super tense all the time, although I'm clearly trying not to show it.

[Wiseman2]

Does she respond to your communication or just not initiate calls, texts, dates, etc?

I straight up confronted her on her not reaching out for the past two weeks. She concluded by saying she rarely contacts people first and lets them come to her because "it's just the way I am".

[AleSommacal]

Does she respond to your communication or just not initiate calls, texts, dates, etc?

 

she always responds to texts and calls, and shows a good level of interest

 

She never initiates though.

[Wiseman2]

Ok so why not make the effort to reach out and communicate whenever you want? Why make a stink and create problems by insisting she contact you first? What's the difference? Who cares? Why "call her out" on something that is trying to force her to contact you first for some game or ego reason? If you want to create a stink about it for whatever reason, then why not break up if you absolutely need women to chase you and contact you first? If these are your rules and necessary for you to date someone, find a nice clingy girl who is glued to her phone and texts you first all day,, everyday.

she always responds to texts and calls, and shows a good level of interest

[AleSommacal]

What's the difference? Who cares?

 

I do. I'm not giving without receiving. That's not my style.

[catfeeder]

I do. I'm not giving without receiving. That's not my style.

 

I'd 'style' my way away from this thing...it's ridiculous.

[katrina1980]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if Lex's guy and this girl got together. Lol.

 

See Lex's thread for those not familiar.

 

Two detached and emotionless individuals except when they know sex is immediately forthcoming, like on a date.

 

OP did you read Lex's thread as boltnrun suggested? I think you might benefit from it.

[East4]

If OP is Italian and the lady in question too (looking at OP's location) then the US dating standards cannot be mechanically copy/paste on the situation, because the dating etiquette in Italy is much more different to the one in US.

 

Assuming they are both Italians, then yes the old fashioned chivalry is pretty much alive and in force when you date Italian ladies. A classical date with an Italian man who is interested in a woman goes approx like this: 1-2 weeks of daily texting initiated by him, invitation to restaurant dinner, table is booked in advance, he picks her up from her place, door opening, more compliments, flowers are optional, yet good to have; he pays the bill, they have a walk after dinner, kisses if she likes him, he drives her home without expectations to be invited inside.

 

For those who would say that this is too much work, I would reply that the Italian ladies from Italy have the reputation of being really beautiful, extremely well dressed and elegant. Italian women spend a fortune on cloths and are unbeatable by other European nationalities when it comes to dressing up and styling. So, yes men in Italy do have to put in an effort, but the reward with going out with a gorgeous woman, dressed beautifully is worth it. Italian ladies also know how to conduct themselves, you won't see them using coarse language, getting drunk on a date, or flirting with other men.

 

So, again if these two are Italians, OP is just being a jerk for not initiating texting. I guess he is a young man of the millenium generation who got the modern bug that women and men should split everything in dating 50-50; not to mention the Dutch date, God forbid, this does not fly in Italy.

 

My only advice to OP would be to behave like an Italian, and let her be an Italian too.

 

His statement that he does not give, if he does not get anything back in return is just sad and pathetic. It is yet another prove of the decline of manliness in men and the rise of the "me,me,me" culture of selfishness that plagues our times. When a beautiful woman choses to share her body with a man, and he is so limited as a man that he resorts to counting texts, then I very much hope for her that she would drop him.

[katrina1980]

Changed mind.....

[AleSommacal]

A classical date with an Italian man who is interested in a woman goes approx like this: 1-2 weeks of daily texting initiated by him, invitation to restaurant dinner, table is booked in advance, he picks her up from her place, door opening, more compliments, flowers are optional, yet good to have; he pays the bill, they have a walk after dinner, kisses if she likes him, he drives her home without expectations to be invited inside.

 

So, again if these two are Italians, OP is just being a jerk for not initiating texting. I guess he is a young man of the millenium generation who got the modern bug that women and men should split everything in dating 50-50;

 

First thing first. True, in Italy chivarly is still present. However, door opening and flowers are so old-fashioned I'd be laughed at. For what concerns 1-2 weeks of me initiating I've already done that (read the opening post). I set up dates, I payed, I did return her home without expecting anything.

 

We are both in our twenties, we are both students. The ONLY thing I've been asking throughout this thread is some kind of proof she's with me in this.

 

It's been 4 dates. I'm constantly giving and not receiving anything in return, plus she's acting entitled and high-maintenance, threatening to stop comunication if I don't reach out? And you're talking about the decline of manliness? What about getting off your high horse and being a woman who would in any case receive all the attention she needs, all the care, all the love from me?

 

Don't get me wrong. I might be influenced by US's dating standards, but inside I'm a real Italian

[Wiseman2]

Have you had sex yet? What is it you want in return for paying for a few dates and texting?

It's been 4 dates. I'm constantly giving and not receiving anything in return

[AleSommacal]

Have you had sex yet? What is it you want in return for paying for a few dates and texting?

 

I don't think you have read carefully the entire thread. Yes we had sex.

 

I want her to make it clear she's interested by reaching out sometimes, that's all. I think it's something a guy would expect and something a girl is expected to do

[Wiseman2]

Are you going out and having sex regularly? Are you having fun? She's not a texter and if that is a deal breaker you could stop asking her out/end it. Expectations and would, could, should will create misunderstanding and resentments of great magnitude. Like this in your mind.

 

In this case you want her to initiate more texts. She does not and told you she's not a big texter. If she were the girl of your dreams, who texts who first would be irrelevant. Reflect on why she irritates you so much, yet you keep dating her.

I don't think you have read carefully the entire thread. Yes we had sex. I want her to make it clear she's interested by reaching out sometimes

[milly007]

AleSommacal, just curious, but is East4 correct in saying that it’s typical/expected/the norm for the men in Italy to always be the initiator in a scenario like this?

 

I mean, if this is the case, I’m a bit surprised because I can’t see someone like you coming here to ENA to vent and question things so much if this is an expected or typical cultural norm in Italy, you know?

 

If anything, I think you’ve said her behaviour is a bit atypical.

 

Regardless, you just have to decide if this is the type of relationship you want. Communication may change down the road if you decide to stick with it, maybe not. Only time will tell.

 

I’m guessing you won’t see much change though, if at all.

 

I understand where you’re coming from in that you’d like her to make more of an effort and reach out to you every now and then. I really do.

 

I’m not saying I think that each person should be keeping tabs on the text messages and thinking, “hey, I texted you last, so you have to text me next”. All I’m saying is that I think it’s unfair if one person is doing most, if not all, of the work.

 

Didn’t she say she wants or expects daily contact, too?

 

A little initiating here and there goes a long way.

 

I remember going out on a date with this really nice guy years ago. We discussed how most men always feel the need to be the initiators and pursuers, and I recall him saying, “You know, men want to feel needed, too”. So yeah, I get it. To some, a text message or telephone call is more than just a text message or a telephone call.

 

It may just be that you each have different communication styles and therefore aren’t compatible.

[AleSommacal]

AleSommacal, just curious, but is East4 correct in saying that it’s typical/expected/the norm for the men in Italy to always be the initiator in a scenario like this?

 

Didn’t she say she wants or expects daily contact, too?

 

Absolutely not. Before resorting to ENA I had discussed about this with both a female and a male friend of mine. Even for them it was something unheard of.

 

Listen, I've dated several girls in the past year. Never have I met someone who just wouldn't initiate. Ever.

It might be expected for a man to set up dates, compliment, court a woman. It might be his job to initiate MOST of the time in the early stages.

 

And on to the second question... I guess so, because when I pulled back she sent me that pretentious text.

 

I really don't know where East4 gathered that info, but I think she's not Italian; and if she is, well, not many men would do that. Guarantee

[milly007]

Absolutely not. Before resorting to ENA I had discussed about this with both a female and a male friend of mine. Even for them it was something unheard of.

 

Listen, I've dated several girls in the past year. Never have I met someone who just wouldn't initiate. Ever.

It might be expected for a man to set up dates, compliment, court a woman. It might be his job to initiate MOST of the time in the early stages.

 

And on to the second question... I guess so, because when I pulled back she sent me that pretentious text.

 

I really don't know where East4 gathered that info, but I think she's not Italian; and if she is, well, not many men would do that. Guarantee

 

Do you know what you’re going to do at this stage?

 

I’d be interested in knowing how this all pans out.

[AleSommacal]

Do you know what you’re going to do at this stage?

 

yeah, I made up my mind.

 

I'll be the one initating, but I'll keep communication to a minumum. I'll set up the dates and all, and see if she gets more and more interested.

 

If not, start looking for someone else while keeping her in the backburner.

 

If yes, keep on initiating till she falls in love. Then hopefully things will even out.

[Jellybean9]

yeah, I made up my mind.

 

I'll be the one initating, but I'll keep communication to a minumum. I'll set up the dates and all, and see if she gets more and more interested.

 

If not, start looking for someone else while keeping her in the backburner.

 

If yes, keep on initiating till she falls in love. Then hopefully things will even out.

 

Do you really want to be with someone who you had to keep pushing with texts until they "fall in love with you"

 

The backburner is where she belongs. As she is obviously not interested until it suits her!

 

I hope when you start looking you find someone better. You find someone who initaites. Who plans dates. Guess what of the connection is there you'll have amazing sex. I guarantee it.

 

Start looking now I would say!

[East4]

I really don't know where East4 gathered that info, but I think she's not Italian; and if she is, well, not many men would do that. Guarantee

To answer the question, I get this info from my experience, i.e. from having dated Italian guys in Italy and another European country.

 

OP, if your father (presumably an Italian) waited for your mother to contact him and take him out, then for sure you wouldn't have been born.

I'd advise you use the holidays with your parents and take some advice from your father how to court women.

 

Let me tell you that your insisting to be texted and chased makes you look like the woman in this dating situation, because you prefer to be passive, which is associated with typical women's behavior. I guess your frustration comes from the fact that the girl refuses to act like a MAN

[East4]

I agree with what other poster before me is trying to tell you, notably that your "im not giving if im not receiving" is just laughable. You are getting good sex from a gorgeous woman, and you are not getting anything? Really? Only because she is not initiating texting?

 

For me looking from outside, it is obvious that you have some substantial self-esteem issues, that make you crave chase and attention, more that what a real healthy man is more interested in-the real deal (you know what I mean).

 

 

I checked your previous thread on the same girl, instead of asking her to a date, you were coming up with some wishy-washy hang-outs at the gym, lol! Who does that? Only guys with a very fragile egos, who fear rejection if they step on the fire line and straight out ask a girl on a date; instead these types of men-boys ask for a hang-out, so that they could save face if the girl turns them down. Insecurity and low-self esteem par excellence.

[figureitout23]

I think I like you east.

[AleSommacal]

Let me tell you that your insisting to be texted and chased makes you look like the woman in this dating situation, because you prefer to be passive, which is associated with typical women's behavior. I guess your frustration comes from the fact that the girl refuses to act like a MAN

 

I sense a lot of frustration coming from your posts. Why though? You're going all in on a guy who's only asking to be treated as a date would normally do.

 

1. Absolutely no need to put into the picture my mother and my father. I'd highly advise caution.

 

2. I've not insisted on being chased nor being texted. I've been asking for something EVERYONE does. You like a guy? You have sex with him? Why not reach out some time to time? It's something EVERYONE appreciates. And don't even get me started on that BS of me "being passive". Read again the thread thoroughly.

 

3. You're regarding sex as her reward for me. Wow! Such a up-to-date concept ;) Sex is about giving and receiving, just like texting.

 

4. You're not entitled to judge me as a person.

[figureitout23]

You kinda sorta proved her point about having a fragile ego...