Another first date - how not to screw up (again)

[bbogdanov]

As someone that suffers from social anxiety I can tell you that the above statement will get you nowhere fast in getting over your anxiety. If you aren’t comfortable with being alone, that is going to stretch into every interaction you have in the form of desperation, envy, jealousy, and controlling behaviours that will push any high value confident women away... not to mention you are using them like a drug to try and calm yourself down.

 

You MUST know after all of your counseling that seeking outside things to fulfill yourself will never work... all it does is create mor anxiety and negativity until you spiral completely out of control... you need to ground yourself in some interns values and principles that are important to you and focus on getting over your fear of being alone.

 

I've been alone for two years now, not that I am happy about it and I am not completely used to it, but I doubt it can be better than that. I feel I can't be 100% comfortable being alone. After all, people are social creatures and everybody desires to have a connection with a SO. I do know that it's pointless to seek outside things to fulfill myself but I can't help much pressuring myself with the "need" to have a gf. I yearn for affection, closeness, sex (if you wish), sharing my good and bad experiences in life etc. Not that I would accept the first woman that comes my way for that purpose (I had several possibilities until now to start a relationship if that was the case, there were couple of women that "wanted" me), after all I've got my criteria and I won't be pleased with anything (but don't think, too, that my standards are high or somewhat). Otherwise your opinion is totally on point!

[Batya33]

The problem for you with what you wrote is that wanting to connect with someone is different than needing to connect with someone. There is always some "need" but it should be far outweighed by want -by a reasonably secure and confident and fulfilled person seeking a good match to share life with (or a few dates, or an activity, etc).

[bbogdanov]

The problem for you with what you wrote is that wanting to connect with someone is different than needing to connect with someone. There is always some "need" but it should be far outweighed by want -by a reasonably secure and confident and fulfilled person seeking a good match to share life with (or a few dates, or an activity, etc).

 

How to differentiate between the two? We came to a conclusion that I am not the most secure person in the world (maybe even the total opposite ), I am not confident in the field of relationships (last year's experience made it even worse, hardening my belief that something's wrong with me because I can't have a gf) and I am not fulfilled without having a girlfriend (I am happy with other areas of life, but I am "missing" that piece of the puzzle, having a SO). What do I do?

 

I am sometimes thinking about people who've got even less than me and I wonder why am I so unsatisfied, like I want everything in life. And "everything" includes having a gf (and eventually a family and kids). I have few good friends I can rely on, I have a loving family that would do everything for me (I would do the same as well), I have a great job that I adore... Basically life's easy from that point of view. But I miss the connection with a SO, it will keep bothering me no matter how happy I am with any other area of my life.

[katrina1980]

bbog, I am going to be brutally honest with you.

 

There are never any guarantees in dating, relationships, heck even marriage! Never ever.

 

Things can change at any given time. And especially in the early stages, uncertainty at times is a given.

 

If you don't have the capability or emotional tools to handle that uncertainty, and demand constant reassurance from your partner that she will never reject you, never break up with you, etc, etc frankly imo you have no business dating.

 

It's not fair to your partner to demand such constant reassurance, it's emotionally draining and will cause your partner to feel stressed and anxious herself.

 

The result? She will either become a total basket case trying to acquiesce to your constant need for reassurance or she will become resentful, drained, repulsed, angry and leave.

 

The very thing you were hoping to avoid!!

 

I am not typically this blunt on these forums, but stop doing that. Now. Get a grip.

 

Like you said it's completely self-centered and self-centered people are not good relationship candidates and that's putting it mildly.

 

Step away from your needs and think of how your anxious and needy behavior is affecting your partner!!

 

Right now, you're fine, this woman sounds very interested and perhaps thought this one freak out was "cute" - little does she know how serious your issues truly are.

 

As time goes on, if you don't get a grip and learn how to control your impulses and stop being so selfish, she is going to leave, guarantee.

 

Your call bbog. GL.

[Batya33]

How to differentiate between the two? We came to a conclusion that I am not the most secure person in the world (maybe even the total opposite ), I am not confident in the field of relationships (last year's experience made it even worse, hardening my belief that something's wrong with me because I can't have a gf) and I am not fulfilled without having a girlfriend (I am happy with other areas of life, but I am "missing" that piece of the puzzle, having a SO). What do I do?

 

I am sometimes thinking about people who've got even less than me and I wonder why am I so unsatisfied, like I want everything in life. And "everything" includes having a gf (and eventually a family and kids). I have few good friends I can rely on, I have a loving family that would do everything for me (I would do the same as well), I have a great job that I adore... Basically life's easy from that point of view. But I miss the connection with a SO, it will keep bothering me no matter how happy I am with any other area of my life.

 

I knew I would not be fulfilled in life without marriage and family. And at times I felt desperate (mostly in my 20s/early 30s, but not after). But again- having a goal doesn't mean you have to go about it with a mindset of neediness/desperation -that is how you get in your own way. It's about keeping your eye on the prize and self-honesty (for me that meant not listening to all that nonsense of how being single would be just as good, maybe better, about all the negatives of marriage and having children - all those silly rationalizations -silly to me anyway)- while also knowing that your goal isn't because you're not good enough on your own, isn't because you need someone else to depend on for happiness but rather a way to share your already good life with someone else. Think of it this way - let's say you had a career ambition but needed years of experience to get there -does that mean you're never happy or fulfilled until you reach that goal?

And here's the tricky part -there are no guarantees, no recipe for success, when it comes to marriage/commitment and family-many lovely people never find their one I am sure. So you also have to stay realistic and build up your life so that in case you cannot attain your goal you will have resources and support within yourself and in the life you create for yourself so that even if it bothers you you go on with your life.

[bbogdanov]

bbog, I am going to be brutally honest with you.

 

There are never any guarantees in dating, relationships, heck even marriage! Never ever.

 

Things can change at any given time. And especially in the early stages, uncertainty at times is a given.

 

If you don't have the capability or emotional tools to handle that uncertainty, and demand constant reassurance from your partner that she will never reject you, never break up with you, etc, etc frankly imo you have no business dating.

 

It's not fair to your partner to demand such constant reassurance, it's emotionally draining and will cause your partner to feel stressed and anxious herself.

 

The result? She will either become a total basket case trying to acquiesce to your constant need for reassurance or she will become resentful, drained, repulsed, angry and leave.

 

The very thing you were hoping to avoid!!

 

I am not typically this blunt on these forums, but stop doing that. Now. Get a grip.

 

Like you said it's completely self-centered and self-centered people are not good relationship candidates and that's putting it mildly.

 

Step away from your needs and think of how your anxious and needy behavior is affecting your partner!!

 

Right now, you're fine, this woman sounds very interested and perhaps thought this one freak out was "cute" - little does she know how serious your issues truly are.

 

As time goes on, if you don't get a grip and learn how to control your impulses and stop being so selfish, she is going to leave, guarantee.

 

Your call bbog. GL.

 

Don't be so dramatic Nobody said there are any guarantees for anything. I am just struggling with some uncertainties but that doesn't mean I am going to demand constant reassurance from my partner. It doesn't sound normal at all I can guarantee that it's not going to happen. I am just having an occasional struggle here and there, not all the time. Nor do I want to drain and stress my partner.

[bbogdanov]

I knew I would not be fulfilled in life without marriage and family. And at times I felt desperate (mostly in my 20s/early 30s, but not after). But again- having a goal doesn't mean you have to go about it with a mindset of neediness/desperation -that is how you get in your own way. It's about keeping your eye on the prize and self-honesty (for me that meant not listening to all that nonsense of how being single would be just as good, maybe better, about all the negatives of marriage and having children - all those silly rationalizations -silly to me anyway)- while also knowing that your goal isn't because you're not good enough on your own, isn't because you need someone else to depend on for happiness but rather a way to share your already good life with someone else. Think of it this way - let's say you had a career ambition but needed years of experience to get there -does that mean you're never happy or fulfilled until you reach that goal?

And here's the tricky part -there are no guarantees, no recipe for success, when it comes to marriage/commitment and family-many lovely people never find their one I am sure. So you also have to stay realistic and build up your life so that in case you cannot attain your goal you will have resources and support within yourself and in the life you create for yourself so that even if it bothers you you go on with your life.

 

Of course I will go on with my life whatever happens. It's just that I really want to have a person to share it with. I know many people just don't find "the one" and it is completely realistic. But still I hope I will find mine : )

[katrina1980]

I was not being dramatic, I was only repeating what you yourself said, that you need reassurance that you won't be rejected, she won't break up with you, YOUR words.

 

Fabulous that you're now saying something different, that you don't need such reassurance.

 

GL I'm out.

[boltnrun]

Don't be so dramatic Nobody said there are any guarantees for anything. I am just struggling with some uncertainties but that doesn't mean I am going to demand constant reassurance from my partner. It doesn't sound normal at all I can guarantee that it's not going to happen. I am just having an occasional struggle here and there, not all the time. Nor do I want to drain and stress my partner.

 

Please re-read this the next time your emotions start to get out of control because she read your message but didn't respond in the time frame you wanted her to.

[maew]

I've been alone for two years now, not that I am happy about it and I am not completely used to it, but I doubt it can be better than that. I feel I can't be 100% comfortable being alone. After all, people are social creatures and everybody desires to have a connection with a SO. I do know that it's pointless to seek outside things to fulfill myself but I can't help much pressuring myself with the "need" to have a gf. I yearn for affection, closeness, sex (if you wish), sharing my good and bad experiences in life etc. Not that I would accept the first woman that comes my way for that purpose (I had several possibilities until now to start a relationship if that was the case, there were couple of women that "wanted" me), after all I've got my criteria and I won't be pleased with anything (but don't think, too, that my standards are high or somewhat). Otherwise your opinion is totally on point!

 

I've been mostly alone for almost 3 years... and while I would love to have an SO, I also love my life and am happy and fulfilled. Yes it is human nature to want connection... that connection starts from within as a spiritual connection and emotional intimacy with our friends and family. The difference with you is that you are allowing your yearning and emotions to control your actions instead of the other way around. When we are controlled by our emotions, we do all sorts of unproductive and sometimes downright destructive things to get the fulfillment we seek... when we apply this to relationships with others, it causes damage to both them and to ourselves.

[bbogdanov]

I was not being dramatic, I was only repeating what you yourself said, that you need reassurance that you won't be rejected, she won't break up with you, YOUR words.

 

Fabulous that you're now saying something different, that you don't need such reassurance.

 

GL I'm out.

 

It seems you haven’t taken notice of that “constant” there... never mind

[bbogdanov]

Please re-read this the next time your emotions start to get out of control because she read your message but didn't respond in the time frame you wanted her to.

 

How would it help me?

[bbogdanov]

I've been mostly alone for almost 3 years... and while I would love to have an SO, I also love my life and am happy and fulfilled. Yes it is human nature to want connection... that connection starts from within as a spiritual connection and emotional intimacy with our friends and family. The difference with you is that you are allowing your yearning and emotions to control your actions instead of the other way around. When we are controlled by our emotions, we do all sorts of unproductive and sometimes downright destructive things to get the fulfillment we seek... when we apply this to relationships with others, it causes damage to both them and to ourselves.

 

Nice words, I guess you are right. Meanwhile we had a nice dinner this evening and I am going to spend tomorrow night at her place.

[Jibralta]

I am sometimes thinking about people who've got even less than me and I wonder why am I so unsatisfied, like I want everything in life.

 

It's probably because whatever anxiety you are feeling isn't actually related to dating or finding a companion. It feels like it is, because dating brings it out. But the actual anxiety could be attached to something else. For example, you could have a fear of abandonment. Dating definitely inflames a fear of abandonment because 99% of the time things don't work out. That's for the best, of course, because you probably don't want to be with all of those people. But it doesn't feel that way.

 

Anxiety does not make sense.

 

I actually just started watching this series on YouTube about anxiety. I'm just over one episode in, but it is pretty interesting. Not sure if you can access it in Bulgaria, but this lady really knows her sh*t about psychology. Interviews with her are usually pretty good:

 

[figureitout23]

Excellent post Jibralta, so very true. I’m going to check it that series myself.

 

BB in reference to you look at your responses:

 

It seems you haven’t taken notice of that “constant” there... never mind

 

How would it help me?

 

Nice words, I guess you are right. Meanwhile we had a nice dinner this evening and I am going to spend tomorrow night at her place.

 

I think based on your flippant attitude to responders saying things you don’t want to hear, combined with your tendency to be quick to anger, your need to be respected and controlling and the dating history mentioned by bolt, that you very well may be at risk of being abusive in your actual relationships, if you were to ever get to that point.

 

The reason I say that isn’t to be mean or to sabotage you but B.B, You can’t change what you don’t acknowledge!

 

People think when someone says their partner is abusive they mean their abusers this evil villain character like in the movies but often times abusers are individuals with incredibly low self esteem who control and abuse because that’s the only way they know how to ‘keep’ their partners.

 

You keep dismissing your behavior. Yes it’s caused by your insecurities, and we all have our baggage, but that doesn’t mean we ignore it. BB do something about this. I said this at the start of the post, it’s not going anywhere.

 

I hope things work out with this woman things sound promising and she sounds understanding, her openness isn’t a free pass to not work on yourself

[bbogdanov]

It's probably because whatever anxiety you are feeling isn't actually related to dating or finding a companion. It feels like it is, because dating brings it out. But the actual anxiety could be attached to something else. For example, you could have a fear of abandonment. Dating definitely inflames a fear of abandonment because 99% of the time things don't work out. That's for the best, of course, because you probably don't want to be with all of those people. But it doesn't feel that way.

 

Anxiety does not make sense.

 

I actually just started watching this series on YouTube about anxiety. I'm just over one episode in, but it is pretty interesting. Not sure if you can access it in Bulgaria, but this lady really knows her sh*t about psychology. Interviews with her are usually pretty good:

 

 

Thanks! I can access the videos without problems so I will take advantage of it.

[bbogdanov]

Excellent post Jibralta, so very true. I’m going to check it that series myself.

 

BB in reference to you look at your responses:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think based on your flippant attitude to responders saying things you don’t want to hear, combined with your tendency to be quick to anger, your need to be respected and controlling and the dating history mentioned by bolt, that you very well may be at risk of being abusive in your actual relationships, if you were to ever get to that point.

 

The reason I say that isn’t to be mean or to sabotage you but B.B, You can’t change what you don’t acknowledge!

 

People think when someone says their partner is abusive they mean their abusers this evil villain character like in the movies but often times abusers are individuals with incredibly low self esteem who control and abuse because that’s the only way they know how to ‘keep’ their partners.

 

You keep dismissing your behavior. Yes it’s caused by your insecurities, and we all have our baggage, but that doesn’t mean we ignore it. BB do something about this. I said this at the start of the post, it’s not going anywhere.

 

I hope things work out with this woman things sound promising and she sounds understanding, her openness isn’t a free pass to not work on yourself

 

What does flippant mean? I am not angry at things I don't want to hear, I am angry at things that are not true. I said that I need an occasional reassurance (here and there), not a constant one. And by occasional I mean as seldom as possible, my goal is to not need a reassurance at all but I don't know if it's realistic. But that's far from the situation described by some posters that depicts me like a person that needs soothing every minute/hour. Don't forget the language barrier, too. I am not always sure I can express well myself in english and sometimes there are even some "insults" like that to katrina1980 - I told her to calm down which is completely normal in my language (something like a joke/teasing) and has nothing negative/offending in it. Just cultural differences.

 

Don't mind my tendency to be quick to anger, I am not even sure if it is right at all. In fact I am not a person that gets angry so easy, my ex (mentioned by boltnrun) was often pissed off that when we had some different point of views (and even fights), I was standing calm and aloof like I don't care at all while she was raging. She was saying "you are always standing like that, you don't care for anything, stand up and get angry" or something along those lines. She thought that if I am not furious, if I am not emotional as she is, if I don't fight with her like we are enemies, I don't care. Never mind...

 

I can guarantee that I am not at risk being abusive at all, that's the last thing I will do. I am a well-manered man and although I have my flaws, any woman that has a relationship with me can be absolutely safe in that respect. Working on myself is something that is a certainty, don't think the fact that I have some kind of relationship now will be a free pass to stop doing anything in that direction. And I don't ignore my baggage at all, like you see - I am trying to gather as much info as possible and hopefully resolve the issue some day. Looking from the sideline is one thing, but being in my position is completely different. I've got some self-awareness but I am at times puzzled and conflicting with myself. I guess it will take some time and struggle, it won't happen with a magic wand. I appreciate all opinions here.

[bbogdanov]

Just a little update - we've been together for more than 3 months now. Everything seems fine. I am happy and content, so is she. We are making plans of moving in together so I guess we are heading in the right direction...

[Wiseman2]

Great update, take your time talking about moving in.

3 months now. Everything seems fine. We are making plans of moving in together so I guess we are heading in the right direction...

[Jibralta]

that's great news

[figureitout23]

Damn, what I wrote was on point!

 

Hope you took some of it to heart and this isn’t a hah told ya so update.

 

Either way, happy for you B.B.!

[bbogdanov]

Thanks for the advices and all the help given here through the years! To all you three and all the others, of course. It isn't "hah told ya" update at all : ) Just wanted to share my progress and I am happy about the current situation. She is living with a roommate at the moment but we will eventually live in our own home. I am taking my time, there is no hurry. Nevertheless, I am sleeping at her place every 2-3 days so we spend sufficient time together and get to know each other. I will provide you with more info when things progress further.