I worry that my husband will never be satisfied

[Rihannon]

I think I know what you mean, DancingFool, but it's during those times when we are each doing our own thing that I worry we will grow apart, or that my emotional distance from him will drift too far in the extreme other direction.

[DancingFool]

I think I know what you mean, DancingFool, but it's during those times when we are each doing our own thing that I worry we will grow apart, or that my emotional distance from him will drift too far in the extreme other direction.

 

But why do you equate having your own sense of self, your own achievements and identity as emotional distance? Mirroring your husband's feelings isn't emotional closeness......

[Rihannon]

But why do you equate having your own sense of self, your own achievements and identity as emotional distance? Mirroring your husband's feelings isn't emotional closeness......

 

I'm not sure how to respond to this. What you are saying makes sense intellectually, I think you're probably right. But I have this impulse toward the contrary. I need to figure out how to absorb what you said here and change my habitual thinking. Is this a codependent way of thinking? I ask because I'm thinking of looking up some resources on the topic.

[Hollyj]

I do not have friends, TBH. I've always been kind of a loner but, also he is high maintenance. I don't mind saying that in all honesty and without judgement. He's high maintenance. He's sensitive, emotional. Outside of being with him, I work, volunteer, read, paint, I'm finishing a Master's Degree, and before I got too busy with school I was working with a group of writers on a sci-fi fiction magazine for which I wrote my very own short story. And funny thing, I felt like bragging to the world about that one self-published short story that about 10 people in the world even knew about. What a contrast between myself and him.

 

Good for you!!!

[Hollyj]

I'm not sure how to respond to this. What you are saying makes sense intellectually, I think you're probably right. But I have this impulse toward the contrary. I need to figure out how to absorb what you said here and change my habitual thinking. Is this a codependent way of thinking? I ask because I'm thinking of looking up some resources on the topic.

 

I saw co dependence from your first post.

[Rihannon]

Good for you!!!

 

LOL. I know, right?! I was bragging up and down the block about the fact that I made some of the sets for one of his musicals and was participating in them. I didn't even do a good job, I just thought I was super cool for having done something out of the ordinary. I mean, I AM super cool! Any tiny success entirely goes to my head, I've always been that way. Once, in 6th grade science, the cool girl passed notes to me through one class and I was like "Hello Prom Queen" but of course that passed and I was still a huge geek but you know, for about 45 minutes I was queen.

[Rihannon]

I saw co dependence from your first post.

 

Well, OK. That's kind of disappointing. I'm going to look up some literature on this. If anyone has any recommendations, I'm taking notes.

[DancingFool]

I'm not sure how to respond to this. What you are saying makes sense intellectually, I think you're probably right. But I have this impulse toward the contrary. I need to figure out how to absorb what you said here and change my habitual thinking. Is this a codependent way of thinking? I ask because I'm thinking of looking up some resources on the topic.

 

It could be. Certainly worth exploring more.

[Wiseman2]

You seem to have excellent insight into things. It would be best to let him do whatever he wants to/needs to do. You don't need to be a manager, cheerleader, etc. In fact let him determine whether he is a "success" or not, even if he's brewing and brooding about it.

 

If there's a sincere compliment to be made fine, but don't mommy him, it kills the romance and worse can come off as nagging, interfering or pushing. He picked this path so let him walk it. He's a grown man who decided this is what he wants. Focus on your contribution to the marriage.

 

This says it all. Just keep repeating it to yourself if he's stewing, fishing for praise, wants you do to his work or whatever:

I can't make him happy. In the end, this is HIS work and he has to feel good about it. I can't live my life just for his success.

[Batya33]

I do interact with people. I volunteer at a community science education center. Kids, families, it's awesome.

 

I was asking in reference to making friends - and potentially close friends -as a way of having your own life. Yes, even if you tend to be an introvert.

[Rihannon]

I was asking in reference to making friends - and potentially close friends -as a way of having your own life. Yes, even if you tend to be an introvert.

 

I have trouble making friends. I am sort of reserved and closed-off and don't open up to people easily because of that feeling of being vulnerable and exhausted by it. Opening up here is OK, being anonymous and all. I am super friendly but relationships don't go deep. I tend to put up a wall after a certain point. Keep a distance.

[Batya33]

I have trouble making friends. I am sort of reserved and closed-off and don't open up to people easily because of that feeling of being vulnerable and exhausted by it. Opening up here is OK, being anonymous and all.

 

Yes, I get it And I think you need to overcome that to an extent and take baby steps towards socializing and developing outside friendships. Especially if you want to be a parent -often it takes a village to raise a child -my husband is on the shyer side in my brand new city as a new mom and new wife I made it my business to meet people - in part so that I could find people to call on in an emergency when my husband was away -and I would do the same for them -and in large part to make new friends. I cannot tell you how many times it gave me peace of mind to know I had that village even though there were relatively few times I had to ask for help. And I've loved helping others over the years.

[Rihannon]

Do you think that if I backed off from trying to be involved, it might encourage him to be more proactive and self-promoting? For example: If he designs all these posters for his album and makes the CDs, then starts getting bummed out about the thought that no one will buy it, and the posters and CDs just sit at home: I could, A, try to take things into my own hands to help, which could backfire if I do the wrong thing; B, only be supportive when he asks and otherwise live my own life - which sort of feels selfish and like I'd be abandoning him; C, try to be more pushy toward him to take action, which could end up making him annoyed with me, but maybe that's what he needs.

[Rihannon]

Yes, I get it And I think you need to overcome that to an extent and take baby steps towards socializing and developing outside friendships. Especially if you want to be a parent -often it takes a village to raise a child -my husband is on the shyer side in my brand new city as a new mom and new wife I made it my business to meet people - in part so that I could find people to call on in an emergency when my husband was away -and I would do the same for them -and in large part to make new friends. I cannot tell you how many times it gave me peace of mind to know I had that village even though there were relatively few times I had to ask for help. And I've loved helping others over the years.

 

This is good advice and it's something I've known and childishly resisted because it's out of my comfort zone to let people in. I guess if I shifted all this energy from worrying about my marriage into trying to build friendships, who knows.

[DanZee]

Just to throw in another thing to think about is that a large number of creative people suffer from depression and bipolar disorder. You touched on it briefly. So this could explain your husband's unhappiness and his sense of not being good enough. And this can explain what you're feeling. For example, depression makes it difficult for someone to connect on a deep emotional level. And it can be difficult on you. You can Google on articles on how to deal with depressed people. Basically, you need to continue being a supporter of your husband. You need to ignore his own self-criticism. Try to get him out to dinner and concerts and movies. If you can, get him out walking and exercising. As people have commented, you do have to take care of yourself as well. Keep up with friendships and relationships and let your husband know if he makes you upset.

[Hollyj]

LOL. I know, right?! I was bragging up and down the block about the fact that I made some of the sets for one of his musicals and was participating in them. I didn't even do a good job, I just thought I was super cool for having done something out of the ordinary. I mean, I AM super cool! Any tiny success entirely goes to my head, I've always been that way. Once, in 6th grade science, the cool girl passed notes to me through one class and I was like "Hello Prom Queen" but of course that passed and I was still a huge geek but you know, for about 45 minutes I was queen.

 

Nothing wrong with appreciating your efforts!

[abitbroken]

I think that your job is to be his wife - sure he relies on you for good counsel -- but he needs a mentor and/or needs to hire PR for the other stuff. If he finds some mentors - a combination of people who have achieved what he wants to achieve and some others that have different wheelhouses that might be better than relying on his wife for all things - but i think its less on him relying and more on you inserting yourself

 

Just to throw in another thing to think about is that a large number of creative people suffer from depression and bipolar disorder. You touched on it briefly. So this could explain your husband's unhappiness and his sense of not being good enough. And this can explain what you're feeling. For example, depression makes it difficult for someone to connect on a deep emotional level. And it can be difficult on you. You can Google on articles on how to deal with depressed people. Basically, you need to continue being a supporter of your husband. You need to ignore his own self-criticism. Try to get him out to dinner and concerts and movies. If you can, get him out walking and exercising. As people have commented, you do have to take care of yourself as well. Keep up with friendships and relationships and let your husband know if he makes you upset.

 

Because he is driven, accomplishing things instead of not getting out of bed - i am leaning more to validation/perfection vs bipolar or depressed. I think its easy to paint someone as an artistic person as being automatically suffering from depression - but people can be highly self critical and not depressed.

[Rihannon]

I'm leaning toward accepting that concept, abitbroken, about my job (in this relationship) being to support him as his wife, as a partner, not as a manager or something. I just watch these real-life movies and hear about true stories about successful people who had someone in their life who went above and beyond to support the successful person's career and make things happen for them. I wanted to be that person for him. But then I was thinking about how, in a way, that's sort of like trying to control the other person, and maybe he doesn't need that from me, to be successful.

[Wiseman2]

This is the best approach. Keep in mind you are also contributing to the relationship and have your own concerns. Do Not be a martyr, coach, mother, etc. Let him do what he does. Nagging and doing his "homework" for him is mothering him. It kills the romance, sets up a parent-child dynamic and creates resentment on both sides, which you are already noticing.

only be supportive when he asks and otherwise live my own life.

[Rihannon]

I've been thinking more about this and I really appreciate all the insights you all have given me. I have noticed that Wiseman2, you and I think someone else mentioned resentment, and you were right. I do harbour resentment. I noticed it just yesterday. I was thinking about all the times I've helped him, all the effort I've gone to, for his projects to succeed, and not just the time and effort but the emotional involvement which was possibly even more exhausting. I was thinking about how I feel bitter that I don't think he appreciated what I did or all the trouble I went to. And I resent that he gets to be moody and overwhelmed and has the monopoly on value for his efforts. So, because his work is for something he lives for, and mine is not such a life-calling, because his after-hours efforts are for "art" and mine are for hobbies and family and fun, that somehow means I'm a lesser person and my efforts are frivolous. I'm second place because the stakes are lower for me. But when do I get to be moody and sad and need all the attention? I'm going through a lot this year, with blaming myself for our lost child, with questioning my motives to motherhood, with doubting myself all the time. And this is the facts: he's not going to be there for me in some ways. He's going to be a selfish person in a lot of ways because I will always come second to his creative efforts. I can accept that and find my own strength and be happy, or I can find someone else if I think I need to lean on another person more. I gotta grow my own support system beneath me if I want to stay in this relationship. It has benefits. I love and admire him. He inspires me to be a better person, a stronger person. He challenges me intellectually and ethically. He's the funniest, strangest person I've ever known and I can't believe after all these years I am not totally sick of him, when I cannot stand most people. I also cannot believe it's taken me this long to figure this stuff out. Thank you, all of you. I have so much gratitude for those who have contributed here in this wonderful community of wisdom and insights.

[Batya33]

Someone can be fully invested in his art and be a wonderful and giving and caring partner.

[wtm78]

Ever since I've known him, my husband has been in school. I met him when he was in college. There was one year between his graduation and the beginning of his PhD program in music, when he was working but not in school, but preparing for graduate school. Graduate school is all-consuming. I say this because it's possible I am judging him unfairly; that maybe once he has gained his degree and is back to working again, things will be different. Does anyone have experience being in a tough PhD program, or being married to someone in graduate school?

 

Here's my concern: My husband is a hard-worker and in addition to his school, he is always working on creative side-projects. He writes and produces plays and musicals, he composes music, and recently produced an album. (These are things that will help him with work because he'll be well-rounded with education and practical experience, and an artistic portfolio of work). I am so proud of him, I admire him, and I think he's done so well. He's been accepted into competitions, won awards, gotten good reviews in local journalism, people have praised him. Hell, just the fact that he has MADE these things is a triumph. I am so impressed.

 

But to him, all of that is nothing. He doesn't see these as successes. He only seems to focus on the awards he didn't get, the tickets he didn't sell, the rejection letters. He's so hard on himself and I just think that nothing is ever enough for him!. He thinks of himself as a failure and a total loser.

 

OK, so he has gotten rejection letters, he has not won every award, there were lots of empty seats at his shows sometimes...but isn't that the nature of the arts world? I think everyone knows it's competitive and it's hard to succeed, it's saturated with talent and content, and it's hard for an independent artist to compete for attention when people would rather watch Game of Thrones or follow celebrity culture instead of go see a new play. I mean come on, considering all that, and that most people in a PhD program don't do all this extra craft, and oh by the way I think it's impressive that he's succeeding in his PhD program. All this is a successful life! Why isn't he happy?

 

I try to be a supporter for him but I'm in a tricky place. If I'm blindly supportive, and only positive, then my praise grows meaningless to him. When I question or criticize him, I worry about the fact that I'm the one who has to live with him, and what if he holds that criticism against me? There have been times when I tried to help him with promotional work and it worked out well. Other times, I made bad choices and it hurt his chances. I can't be his manager. I won't be. I never signed up for that. I will help him all day and night, I would totally be willing to work all day to support us so that he could just focus on creative projects, and I have told him that. But what is the point if he doesn't appreciate his successes? I can't make him happy, I can't make him see the positive in all of this work. It breaks my heart. In the end, this is HIS work and he has to feel good about it. And I can't live my life just for his success.

 

Maybe he'd be better off with someone who could promote his career and push him artistically. I just want a simple happy life. Are we not going to have that? Is it always going to be like this? I posted in another thread about how I'm sad that I don't think he wants children. I could accept sacrificing the chance to have a family if we could at least be happy together. But what if nothing will ever make him happy?

 

I would like some advice on how to think about this, and how I could approach talking to him about this without sounding like I'm accusing him of some fault.

 

He doesn't need you to fix him/ push him/ set him on the right course. He doesn't need you to tell him what he needs to do. Neither does he need to hear that he needs to be better than his current state. He is stuck because he is disheartened and disappointed in himself. He needs his wife to remind him why she love him, why he is special, what his strengths are. He needs a cheerleader, he needs to find himself by himself and noone can help him with that. But you can cheer him on, be there for him. Lift him up when he fall. He needs to figure out what success means to him. Not what it mean to someone else. He can only do that in his own 'struggle'. He is now like a caterpilla in its cocoon trying to emerge as a beautiful butterfly. If you try to help cut open the cocoon at this stage and let it out. The butterfly would not survive long as it has not built enough muscle to flaps its wings. Everything has a timing, has its course. His time will come. Be there for him as you vowed at the aisle. for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish...

[Rihannon]

He doesn't need you to fix him/ push him/ set him on the right course. He doesn't need you to tell him what he needs to do. Neither does he need to hear that he needs to be better than his current state. He is stuck because he is disheartened and disappointed in himself. He needs his wife to remind him why she love him, why he is special, what his strengths are. He needs a cheerleader, he needs to find himself by himself and noone can help him with that. But you can cheer him on, be there for him. Lift him up when he fall. He needs to figure out what success means to him. Not what it mean to someone else. He can only do that in his own 'struggle'. He is now like a caterpilla in its cocoon trying to emerge as a beautiful butterfly. If you try to help cut open the cocoon at this stage and let it out. The butterfly would not survive long as it has not built enough muscle to flaps its wings. Everything has a timing, has its course. His time will come. Be there for him as you vowed at the aisle. for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish...

 

You are absolutely right. I need to be much stronger and more independent. Because when he is sad and downtrodden, it does no good for me to also crumble under that as well. I do struggle with this because there have been times when I end up sounding like his mom.

 

For example, he had to give a presentation at a conference on his research and over the phone the night before, I said something like "your presentation is solid and I know you'll do a great job, and everyone will love it" and he jokingly responded "Thanks, mom!"

[abitbroken]

You are absolutely right. I need to be much stronger and more independent. Because when he is sad and downtrodden, it does no good for me to also crumble under that as well. I do struggle with this because there have been times when I end up sounding like his mom.

 

For example, he had to give a presentation at a conference on his research and over the phone the night before, I said something like "your presentation is solid and I know you'll do a great job, and everyone will love it" and he jokingly responded "Thanks, mom!"

 

Say "good luck tomorrow" "break a leg" (if he says that instead), "let me know how it goes"

[Rihannon]

I've been following the advice of many in this thread. I have been backing off from him emotionally and I've stopped hovering. When he wants to talk about his ideas and work, I listen and am interested. But I noticed that a couple of times I just kind of nodded expectantly at him when he brought it up, and he responded with "you don't seem that interested" to which I had to reassure him that I was. It felt like a bit of an effort to do so.

 

Otherwise, I just let him do his thing and I do mine. I stopped worrying if he was OK, I stopped trying to plan 5 different things to do in case he did or didn't want to do any of them, I stopped basing my daily life around him. I realized it's not my job to coordinate our activities. Lately, when I have wanted to do something, I told him about it and asked him if he wanted to do it, too. When he didn't, I did it alone. So far, this has been lonely and eye-opening. On the one hand, I feel SO much less stress on a daily basis because my every move doesn't depend on him - on his mood or what he wants, or how he feels, or worrying about him. But on the other hand, we are more distant since I started doing this. I feel like we barely talk. When we do, it's fine, for the most part. OK, so that's how he wants it, I guess.

 

Yesterday I had the day off for the holiday, and both of us hardly did anything around the house, I just lazily worked on a project for school while watching TV and puttering around idly cleaning or doing a few chores. Toward the evening I noticed he seemed grumpy. I asked if he was OK. I started to ask if he wanted to do anything, said I was thinking about doing this and that. He basically shut me out. His reply was grumpy so I asked if he wanted to be left alone. He said "sure." I noticed a few hours later he actually texted me at some point, saying that he didn't want to do anything and he was sorry about that, and that he never wanted to do anything again, sorry about that too. I wasn't sure how joking he was, considering the absurdity of texting that, let alone to someone in the same house. I didn't even acknowledge that. I'd asked him if he was OK, asked him if he wanted to be alone, so I considered that done. I didn't feel the need to push it further.

 

I realized that if I want to do things with another person, I need to start making more friends. I've isolated myself and it's my own fault. He could get into a grumpy funk at any time. He's not a reliable person with whom to make plans. I can't count on him to be my activity partner or to be communicative, so I need to look elsewhere for that, or get happy doing things I want to do, by myself. He will just have to get used to it - that I'm going to be living my life doing whatever I want and it won't stop for him. So, he can get on board where he's always welcome, or he can stay behind.

 

Also, he hasn't touched me for so much as a pat on the back in probably a month. Lovely.