Have I been ghosted?

[figureitout23]

Absolutely.

And given the way he handled it, instead of allowing it to rock her, I hope she shakes it off and realizes it has everything to do with him and nothing to do with defining her worth.

@Katrina. . ((Hugs. . Always))

 

Looks like common ground has been reached. Have a nice evening ladies 😊

[SherrySher]

I too agree to disagree and have no less respect for any of you. I see sex as something very personal that I would not share with someone I only knew a short time.

But I know we all work differently.

 

Please be safe regardless!! x

[sky09]

Dayum, 11 pages and we still don't have an answer! OP, where art thou?

 

I've had my own experience of sleeping with somebody on the first date. We connected alright lol Even went on a trip together afterward (lots more connecting there). Only to be ghosted in the end. The red flags were there, and I should've paid more attention, but I sure as hell wasn't ready for a complete ignore. I was more confused than anything else. A simple "thank you, but no thank you" woluld've done the trick. We are so connected these days, yet so disconnected at the same time. Another lesson learned.

[Batya33]

Dayum, 11 pages and we still don't have an answer! OP, where art thou?

 

I've had my own experience of sleeping with somebody on the first date. We connected alright lol Even went on a trip together afterward (lots more connecting there). Only to be ghosted in the end. The red flags were there, and I should've paid more attention, but I sure as hell wasn't ready for a complete ignore. I was more confused than anything else. A simple "thank you, but no thank you" woluld've done the trick. We are so connected these days, yet so disconnected at the same time. Another lesson learned.

 

Yes, I think after a number of dates- whether sex happens or otherwise -and certainly extended time together on a trip -it's rude to ignore and both people should talk -even briefly- about a decision not to proceed. Sorry this happened!

[katrina1980]

Batya, just out of curiousity, and not being obtuse when asking this I promise, but where did you learn that it's okay and acceptable to ignore a man when, after a first date, meet, whatever, he reaches out and either invites you out again or suggests an invite?

 

I could see if neither one reached out, nothing needs to be said, they met didn't click. Done.

 

Or even if they had sexual relations, if neither one reached out afterwards, nothing needs to be said, it was a "one and done" no harm no foul.

 

But to flat out ignore someone (anyone) when they reach out and invite you out? What about if a friend invited you out or suggested getting together, if you weren't up to it, would you ignore them too?

 

I'm sorry I've been trying so hard to understand this rationale, but having a tough time with it, and wondering where you learned this is an acceptable thing to do.

 

Think about how that person might be feeling on the other end, anxiously waiting for a response or just an acknowledgment of the invite even if you decline.

 

Maybe it would not bother *you* to be ignored after inviting a man out or suggesting getting together, but not everyone is capable of just shrugging it off, especially when they really like someone. There is gonna be anxiety, insecurity at least on some level.

 

Just read all the posts on this forum from both men and women attesting to this!

 

A quick response declining and wishing them well, would save them tons of time feeling anxious wondering what's happening.

 

If they text back harassing or asking more questions, just block.

 

It so easy, I still just don't get it.

 

That said, trying to respect your opinion and not judge, even though my opinion is obviously so different.

 

ETA: I already know your feeings about it, simply curious where you learned it was ok. The book by Judith Sills that you refer to a lot?

[Wiseman2]

So true. OP left the building 04-29-2018, 10:54 PM post #52, 54 posts ago

Let's keep it civil, and stay on topic, please...

[katrina1980]

So true. OP left the building 04-29-2018, 10:54 PM post #52, 54 posts ago

 

Yes she has, but may still be reading regardless.

 

And this thread is about ghosting, which is what we're discussing.

 

If you're bored with it, stop reading it!

[Cope]

 

And this thread is about ghosting, which is what we're discussing.

 

That cracked me up! LOL!

[figureitout23]

Yes she has, but may still be reading regardless.

 

And this thread is about ghosting, which is what we're discussing.

 

If you're bored with it, stop reading it!

 

Second this.

[Batya33]

Batya, just out of curiousity, and not being obtuse when asking this I promise, but where did you learn that it's okay and acceptable to ignore a man when, after a first date, meet, whatever, he reaches out and either invites you out again or suggests an invite?

 

I could see if neither one reached out, nothing needs to be said, they met didn't click. Done.

 

Or even if they had sexual relations, if neither one reached out afterwards, nothing needs to be said, it was a "one and done" no harm no foul.

 

But to flat out ignore someone (anyone) when they reach out and invite you out? What about if a friend invited you out or suggested getting together, if you weren't up to it, would you ignore them too?

 

I'm sorry I've been trying so hard to understand this rationale, but having a tough time with it, and wondering where you learned this is an acceptable thing to do.

 

Think about how that person might be feeling on the other end, anxiously waiting for a response or just an acknowledgment of the invite even if you decline.

 

Maybe it would not bother *you* to be ignored after inviting a man out or suggesting getting together, but not everyone is capable of just shrugging it off, especially when they really like someone. There is gonna be anxiety, insecurity at least on some level.

 

Just read all the posts on this forum from both men and women attesting to this!

 

A quick response declining and wishing them well, would save them tons of time feeling anxious wondering what's happening.

 

If they text back harassing or asking more questions, just block.

 

It so easy, I still just don't get it.

 

That said, trying to respect your opinion and not judge, even though my opinion is obviously so different.

 

ETA: I already know your feeings about it, simply curious where you learned it was ok. The book by Judith Sills that you refer to a lot?

 

Who knows -perhaps it is technology based. When I dated it was perfectly fine -and expected -that if you didn't want to see the person again and you'd only been out a few times, you simply did not respond if he asked you out again - I mean you could but not necessary. And vice versa. Many conversations of "did he call again?" after dating a few times - he didn't have to call to say he wasn't interested and if you called him you knew he'd respond if he wanted to take you out again. But not otherwise

 

For the first 15 years I dated (meaning high school and beyond) we had landlines. Typically the person would leave a message on your answering machine either asking for a return call or sometimes asking out again via voicemail. If you didn't want to go, you didn't call back. Silence = lack of interest. Not ignoring, just not responding. And that was fine for the first few dates -if you went out 4 times -meaning you'd been going on dates probably for a month - then yes you responded because it was starting to be a regular dating situation. When email came into play the first time I actually made a social plan entirely by e-mail was in the late 1990s (not a date). I dated until 2005.

 

I did not have a cell phone but some of the men I dated did. When I did online dating I did not respond to any initial messages unless I had an interest in further contact or there was some other reason - maybe we knew people in common, maybe I knew him, maybe we were in the same job/career or some other reason where I felt comfortable responding "thanks so much for your e-mail but I don't think we have enough in common". I wrote to many men online. Never ever occurred to me to feel ignored if they did not respond. And I never did. Silence =lack of interest in dating me.

 

When e-mail kicked in in a bigger way -and instant messaging -I would respond by e-mail or message if I felt it was safe to do so after a first meet. I had too many unsafe or potentially harmful situations with men on line and to me, after a first meet or one or two dates we still barely knew each other. And I never ever felt ignored or badly if I emailed the guy or called him and got no response. I assumed silence was lack of interest. When it came to dating I assumed the people would respond if they wanted to date me again. I wasn't looking for friends or to keep in touch for any other reason under the sun. Certainly if we'd spoken about staying in touch for a shared activity, or if I knew someone he should connect with professionally or socially, I always followed up. Yes, if the person promised to call me at a certain time and didn't -rude. And if I promised to stay in touch, I did. If he asked me to call him to let him know I got home safely, I did.

 

This is also how it worked for everyone else I knew at the time. Maybe with texting now it's different- it's easier to respond, less potentially harmful (you can block and I couldn't on a landline without jumping through many hoops I suppose -I had caller ID I think to screen but a person calling repeatedly -well, you know. Maybe now that so many people email and text there's a different standard because of ease of access. I got a cell phone (other than one I had for a few weeks once) when I was about to pop, I mean, give birth. I didn't have texting capabilities until about 3 years ago.

 

Judith Sills wrote an awesome book called A Fine Romance. It's about the different phases of a relationship. Nothing to do with responding to date invitations. The behavior I described was typical of everyone I knew who was also dating in our teens, 20s, 30s, etc. I didn't learn it anywhere but simply went along with what was deemed acceptable. Without trying to defend myself I am reliable to a fault. If I say I am going to call at a certain time or show up, etc I do. If I promise to follow up, I do. For the first time in about 25 years I messed up the other day- promised to take my friend's call early on a Sunday morning so I could help her with parking in my neighborhood. I messed up and did not do it. Thank goodness all was well -she was not inconvenienced but I still felt awful. The last time I messed up was job related. Just wanted to give you perspective on how highly I value the manners of returning calls, emails, texts whatever. Totally fine to disagree- I know we disagree on various aspects of relationships, dating, and sexual activity. And it's all fine!

[Batya33]

I'll also put it this way. My girlfriends and I had many conversations about early dating over the years. In many cases the woman would call the man (maybe he gave her his number at a bar or party let's say) and not hear back. Or I had male friends who would tell me that they called the woman they went out with a few times and hadn't heard back. The conversation was about the disappointment in not hearing back. It was NOT about whether the woman or man was rude or "ignoring" them. It was "oh - I didn't hear back from her/him so I guess she/he is not interested - how long do you think before I assume she/he is never calling" (my personal answer was, when asked -never wait. move on - there is no "waiting" -if you hear from the person in the future you'll deal with it then). This honestly is a new concept to me -to feel "ignored" by someone you just met in this situation. Feeling disappointed? rejected? frustrated? sure - but ignored because someone you recently met decided not to respond to an invitation to have coffee, or go to a movie, or see each other again -or consider it "rude?" No. With exceptions which I wrote about above -if you promise to call, then you call. If you promise to call back, call back.

 

And do it when you promised to do it barring an emergency. If you promised to follow up on something you talked about and then you realize you don't want to go on another date, still follow up on that aspect and do it timely and with thoughtfulness. But if you don't want to see the person again then just don't respond -and certainly don't respond with something along the lines of "you're so amazing/if I was ready for a serious relationship/I had a great time chatting, want to be friends" - silence is so much better IMO then those self-serving e-mails to someone you just or recently met.

 

What I found incredibly rude when I met men through dating sites and through singles events/blind dates- men who were late without apology, who promised to call to firm up plans and didn't, who asked me out last minute for a weekend night without an incredible reason (like I just won tickets to ____ or "my grandmother is very sick and I would love some company tonight -I wasn't going to go out but realized it would be good for me to do so, sorry about the last minute). It's not just men -maybe it's me but I find flakiness is too often excused "these days" and unreliability which is bizarre to me -we had to make and keep plans using a landline. And we did. One of my friends was asked out in advance for a second date with a guy she met through a personal ad -by telegram. I met an awesome guy through a friend one night and because I pointed out my office building as we were passing he somehow figured out the phone number and to ask if someone with my first name worked there -to ask me out on a date because he'd been too shy to ask for my phone number. People got in touch even though it was much harder. So that's my personal beef. But expecting a call from a guy to say "thaks for asking me out for an official first date but I don't think we're a match?" I think silence is totally fine and maybe even better manners. And I have to say - since we dated with landlines, either that meant leaving a voicemail "rejecting" the invitation or talking to the person you barely knew "I'm calling you back to say I don't want to go out with you again".

 

Look it's JMHO and i chuckled that you thought I got this from a book. Nope.

[figureitout23]

So let me get this straight...

 

It's rude for a man who is still a 'stranger' based on the standards of this post to be late or flakey, but not for a man to disappear after sexual intercourse?

 

I'm going to assume and please correct me if I'm wrong, the reason you consider it rude is the person made plans with you, yes? Well on this post the OPer, stated they said they would keep in touch and then she was ignored, like Kat said, it's another thing if neither reached out, but she was ignored.

 

So what's the difference between the two? I'm also having a hard time seeing it and am looking forward to you or anyone's response.

[katrina1980]

>>"thanks for asking me out for an official first date but I don't think we're a match?"

 

-----

 

Well yeah that does sound rather cheesy, specifically the "first official date" part, lol; I don't think anyone would say that or even thinks that way.

 

I think they see it more as let's get together again and see where this goes, not a "first official date."

 

But anyway, responding back - how about, "it was fun meeting you too, and thx for the invite but gonna have to decline, good luck."

 

Or something like that, just to let them know you're not interested in taking it further.

 

I get people don't do this and choose to simply ignore, but I have to say that when I have responded back with what I just suggested, I can't tell you how many men have texted back telling me how much they appreciated it, and if I ever changed my mind to give them a shout.

 

This tells me they much preferred receiving that text rather than wait days wondering whether or not they would ever hear back.

 

Some men have even continued to text me, essentially harassing me because they had NOT heard back from me!

 

So I do it for somewhat selfish reasons too, I don't want to continue getting texts from them!

 

Now I always respond back, always have really, but the few times I didn't, I regretted it cause as I said, they wouldn't leave me alone, and it got REALLY annoying.

 

And I ended up having to respond back anyway, just to get some peace! lol

 

So it could go either way really.

 

I dunno I just think it's polite and respectful. JMO!

[mustlovedogs]

So let me get this straight...

 

It's rude for a man who is still a 'stranger' based on the standards of this post to be late or flakey, but not for a man to disappear after sexual intercourse?

 

 

I don’t read it as one is rude and another isn’t.

 

I read it as no one owes anyone else anything - including politeness. I think everyone agrees it’s rude to ghost someone (with the definition of ghosting being up to interpretation). I also think everyone agrees it’s polite to respond to a sexual partner.

 

It’s just not *owed*

[Batya33]

I only posted in response to Katrina asking me where I had gleaned that it was ok not to respond to an invitation for a date. I'm not interested in debating the matter at all or discussing it further -I think I was very clear where these norms came from and what was considered typical and acceptable when I dated. So, I answered Katrina's inquiry and I'm done.

 

I feel comfortable with my views and how technology might have changed what's acceptable. I remember for example about 10 years ago a friend my age (early 50s) had lunch with a female friend who was younger, who took out her phone, checked it, texted ,etc. My friend asked her "so would you prefer to text or have lunch with me?" something like that but knowing her said much more diplomatically. She was shocked at what she saw as rude behavior. And now it's considered normal/typical in many cases. I dislike when I'm on the phone with my friend and she gets a text from someone else on her other phone (yes she has a landline as do I) - and she responds to the non-essential text. And I realize the norms have changed. Just like now certain coffee shops have signs that ask that you not be on your phone when ordering. It's a little (little!) sad that that even has to be asked.

 

So I responded to Katrina's specific question and perhaps it does have to do with technology/changing norms, or perhaps not. I'm no expert. I followed what was considered normal and acceptable when I dated. I wrote all about it above -feel free to re-read of course!

[figureitout23]

I don’t read it as one is rude and another isn’t.

 

I read it as no one owes anyone else anything - including politeness. I think everyone agrees it’s rude to ghost someone (with the definition of ghosting being up to interpretation). I also think everyone agrees it’s polite to respond to a sexual partner.

 

It’s just not *owed*

 

Agree.

 

I was under the impression that people were saying it's not rude/inconsiderate and when the stance was held to light it kinda fell apart.

[Batya33]

I don’t read it as one is rude and another isn’t.

 

I read it as no one owes anyone else anything - including politeness. I think everyone agrees it’s rude to ghost someone (with the definition of ghosting being up to interpretation). I also think everyone agrees it’s polite to respond to a sexual partner.

 

It’s just not *owed*

 

I think politeness is owed at all times no matter what. I don't think politeness always requires a response to a person who asks you something, including a typed message on a dating site or a message on voicemail that you know means the person wants to see you again and you've gone out once or twice maybe. When I dated it was perfectly polite to respond with silence to someone asking you for a first or second date, with certain exceptions. It also was perfectly polite to respond with a polite no. It wasn't polite to respond rudely of course. Maybe this was true more in the major city in which I dated and I know for sure that responding with silence wasn't talked about in terms of politeness or not polite or manners -it was simply that no response meant no interest in another date.

 

What is considered polite changes depending on the culture/dynamic, a time in history, etc. To me ghosting is what a close friend did to me months ago - we were speaking about once a week for years. Last July she abruptly stopped responding to my calls -no falling out, no reason why that occurred. Or the newer friend who asked me a number of times to come up with a day to get together, apologized for flaking on me once or twice, asked for another day. I made a suggestion by FB messenger in March, for a date in mid-April as she requested. She read the message or at least it's checked. No response yet and she posts on FB since then. I don't use the term "ghosting" much but sure that is impolite. Now, people don't write thank you notes as a rule anymore. (My son does). Back in the day it was considered rude to ask for money or to register for gifts for an event. For example. Back in the day it would have been rude to email someone to ask them for a date, or to respond to a phone call with an email unless it was "I'll call you soon -sorry ,been busy". Now you can - you don't have to call back to return a phone call - you can text/email, etc.

 

I did consider it impolite if a man said on a first date "want to go to a movie next weekend" and if I said yes and he said "great I'll call you during the week to make a plan" then it was impolite not to follow up. That happened to me at least once but the way I saw it, since we ended the date without a firm plan for another, we didn't have a date. But yes he should have called me even just to say 'I changed my mind".

[katrina1980]

 

I think politeness is owed at all times no matter what. I don't think politeness always requires a response to a person who asks you something, including a typed message on a dating site or a message on voicemail that you know means the person wants to see you again and you've gone out once or twice maybe.

 

Batya, I really don't mean to sound so adversarial, but you seem to be misrepresenting my stance or perhaps just not understanding it?

 

To clarify I am not talking about a man leaving a generic text or voice mail message after a first date/meet and the woman assuming it means he wants to see her again.

 

In that case, if she's not interested in seeing him again, it's fine to not text or call back, when it's a generic text like that. If he's not inviting her out, who knows why he's texting, he could be bored or even just want a text buddy! There's enough of that going around to know that could very well be the case.

 

I was talking specifically about when a man (or woman when roles are flipped) invites a woman out again or suggests getting together again after that first meet/date. Just as the OP did.

 

When that happens, I think a response to the invite is warranted, yay or nay. Regardless of whether or not they had sex; in her case they did have sex which makes his non-response even more egregious - my opinion.

 

But a generic text with no invite or suggestion to get together again? If not interested, then no, not necessary to respond back.

 

Unless of course, they had sexual relations, as the OP and her guy did. When one or the other reaches out afterwards, then I really do think something should be said. Again my opinion.

 

Hope that clarifies!

 

Okay I am done (finally! ) but you know what?

 

It's been a good discussion, seriously. Got a little wound up there for awhile, lol, but it's all good.

 

Have a great weekend everyone!

[Batya33]

So my husband says he remembers thinking it was rude, sometimes, when he would call a woman and ask her out (pre-cell phone/pre-internet) and she wouldn't call back - that it depended on the circumstances. And he can see where if it were now and you could see the person on social media or similar and know they were just not calling back but "fine" that it might be advisable and polite to respond. He also agreed it is easier to respond these days because of texting and not having to make a phone call and tell the person you're not interested which might have been a factor. My woman friend, also my age, said she most often did call back but lied and said she was busy that day - she would not say anything to do with lack of interest -and then she'd hope they got the message not to call again given "busy". I did that sometimes if i was asked out in person so as not to trigger a scene, I guess. Memory is vague. So, maybe it was rude on our part back then despite being typical -I don't know. I do know that technology has changed what is acceptable in a variety of situations, including it being ok to text 5 minutes before you're supposed to be at the planned location that you're "running late" even though the person is already there/close by. It wasn't possible pre-texting and it was considered rude to call last minute to say you were late unless there was a very good -emergency -reason.

[kamurj]

The thread has run its course, closed.