Girlfriend flies off the handle for asking for me asking to discuss an issue

[katrina1980]

Some of you guys really need to get over your pre-conceived negative notions re dancing.

 

This was mentioned before, but there is bump and grind, sexually suggestive and simply moving to beat of a cool tune for fun and enjoyment with friends or family or even by yourself.

 

She was with her family for chrissakes. How *sexually suggestive* could it have been?

[RainyCoast]

i dunno man, i took irish dancing for twelve years and never once went out to do it. maybe i was being sexually suggestive with my 57 year old female coach. or the other kids. the folk i see dancing usually look like they're doing it because it's fun, not to win a sexual - or sexualized- experience.

 

i think it's one of those assumptions that everyone does things solely for the purpose of winning attention and approval. often, we block others out entirely in whatever we're doing without our activity "relating" to a gaze that assumes itself important.

[katrina1980]

I've never danced in my life, and I certainly don't have much experience with relationships...but, if I were in a monogamous relationship, I wouldn't want my girlfriend dancing without me, nor would I understand why she'd feel the need to do it. From what I can tell, dancing is basically being sexually suggestive in public. It's used as a sort of precursor to sex and relationships. OP's gf is basically saying, "Hey, I'm gonna put on some really sexy outfit, go out without you, and shake my body around a group of random guys. If you're aren't okay with that, you're crazy and controlling!"

 

Is this a new requirement for relationships? Ostensibly-unavailable women sexually advertise themselves in public, and if the guy isn't okay with it, he's shamed? Yikes.

 

Read the thread. That is NOT what happened in this case.

 

She had dinner with family then went to a bar afterwards and danced.

 

From what we know, she didn't go home first, change into a sexy outfit, and then went out and bumped and grinded with various men. If she did, okay that could be a dealbreaker, but again that is not what happened in this situation.

[amaryllis8]

I don't think it's unreasonable to request actually sitting down and talking face to face. Relationships are hard enough, and text is almost never a good way to resolve any kind of conversation or argument. Even if it was just a conversation where you could see her face while you reiterated that you respect her rights as an individual, but that she made you uncomfortable and that that should be able to be respected too. Idk - could she have asked you to go dancing too? Or even to have known beforehand? I would have some concerns too. That being said, if she was in a past relationship that had control issues, it's obviosuly going to have further impact. Idk, that's probably not very helpful - but basically I see where you're coming from, and I'm sorry that she was upset and that you are now.

[RainyCoast]

i can't help but draw the attention back to where it was in the original post.

 

i did say from the start i'm interested in a transcript of a discussion about dancing, and with great interest did i discover some people are concerned she may have---ugh...grinded. can't lie, i'd have a massive problem with that.

 

so a question of what is it now. of dancing being a pastime of wh*res which should not be tolearted in a relationship, or a question of whether OP deems his girlfriend a trustworthy person who would not...grind...(or dance alltogether, yuck).

 

because the fact is she resented being frequently questioned as if she had behaved inappropriately. and she will continue to resent such manouvers.

 

so to me, the bottom line is she isn't trusted her activities are relationship-appropriate.

 

and the answer to lack of trust...is not an insistence that the other repeatedly proves or argues and defends themself as a trustworthy person, or that the other gives up an activity and another...to avoid being treated as unworthy.

 

rather, with a hint of trepidation, i propose the solution to a lack of trust...abides..in the OP. or else, there isn't one, and this relationship is done.

[gianno]

general response to questions around insecurity and trust. I trust her 100 percent and don't believe she would betray me in any way, again though that is not the point of this discussion. A partner should be able to bring up something that made them uncomfortable in a calm manner between both parties without being denigrated (that is the real here, that is controlling). You know why screaming is controlling because it makes me question ever bringing something up agan because she will react negatively and this if it goes that far, will make it so hard for me to speak and I will be constantly walking on egg shells around her. That is the true control here

[gianno]

Okay, there's been a lot of "beating up" on the OP on this thread (myself included) which not sure helps as it only causes defensiveness and a refusal to "listen."

 

OP, if you take away anything from this thread, it's this.

 

Learn to pick your battles. Her dancing with family after dinner is not one of them.

 

Let her "be" who she is. If you don't like a particular behavior, search within to determine if your discomfort is reasonable or because of your own insecurities and anxiety, fears.

 

I have learned that most times, our discomfort with something is due to our own internal forces at play, and has little to do with our gf/bf's behavior.

 

Of course sometimes it is, like if she had gone to another man's apt for a drink or something... and in that case, you re-think the relationship and consider leaving it, NOT attempt to control what she does or doesn't do.

 

Most if not all emotionally healthy people know what "boundaries" are in a relationship, without *discussing" them. I certainly do anyway.

 

If your gf crossed a boundary, such as going to another man's apt, she knows it was wrong. No need to discuss, you show her by your actions that you don't tolerate that ****.

 

Again, dancing with family does not fall into that category. Your discomfort with it is YOUR own insecurity.

 

Best of luck moving forward.

 

Nope even the apartment thing, you could have someone that spin that off as just being insecure as well lol, it all depends on perspective. And the problem with you is you can only see your perspective. Point is with each post you talk about trust, that has nothing to do with this. Your partner can do things that don't betray your trust but are still not appropriate I hope you know that

 

I'll give you an easy example off the top of my head, let's say I'm married and wife steals something from someone obviously she didn't betray my trust but she did do something that was wrong. Now whether I can trust her or not after seeing these actions is irrevelant but the factors at hand is that thinking something is wrong doesn't have to do with insecurity

[gianno]

Straw man argument.

 

Doesn't work on most ENAers.

 

It wasn't related to anything about this situation so therefore it isn't a premise of any of my arguments. It is simply my disdain for someone that would discriminate against already stigmatized portion of the population

[Doc Blaze]

Is this the first time you have brought up something you don't like that she has done?

[gianno]

Is this the first time you have brought up something you don't like that she has done?

This is the first time. Actually by my recollection only she has brought up things she doesn't like in order to change or mold me into someone else, which I don't appreciate which fits well into this conversation. But I didn't take her comments too seriously

[Blue Spiral]

i think it's one of those assumptions that everyone does things solely for the purpose of winning attention and approval. often, we block others out entirely in whatever we're doing without our activity "relating" to a gaze that assumes itself important.

 

I am hereby coining a term that I'll call Coincidentally Sex-Adjacent Behavior. It involves an activity that's almost always connected to sex...but, this time, it has nothing to do with it, honestly!

 

Two examples would be dating and dancing:

 

"Whoa, whoa. Why are you suddenly bringing up sex? I thought that you just liked buying meals for me, and listening to me talk about myself! Wow, I had no idea that men looked at dating in a sexual way!"

 

"Whoa, whoa. Why are these guys looking at me? I'm just dancing, out here shaking my body in public. Wow, I had no idea that men looked at dancing in a sexual way!"

 

Willful naiveté or genuine cognitive dissonance? You be the judge. Either way, it allows women to be shocked--shocked, I tell you--that sexual subtext is going on here.

 

Read the thread. That is NOT what happened in this case.

 

She had dinner with family then went to a bar afterwards and danced.

 

That makes it even weirder, IMHO. Dancing with your family?? That just seems crazy, to me. I've never heard of that happening.

[Doc Blaze]

I am hereby coining a term that I'll call Coincidentally Sex-Adjacent Behavior. It involves an activity that's almost always connected to sex...but, this time, it has nothing to do with it, honestly!

 

Two examples would be dating and dancing:

 

"Whoa, whoa. Why are you suddenly bringing up sex? I thought that you just liked buying meals for me, and listening to me talk about myself! Wow, I had no idea that men looked at dating in a sexual way!"

 

"Whoa, whoa. Why are these guys looking at me? I'm just dancing, out here shaking my body in public. Wow, I had no idea that men looked at dancing in a sexual way!"

 

Willful naiveté or genuine cognitive dissonance? You be the judge. Either way, it allows women to be shocked--shocked, I tell you--that sexual subtext is going on here.

 

 

 

That makes it even weirder, IMHO. Dancing with your family?? That just seems crazy, to me. I've never heard of that happening.

 

 

never heard of families dancing at weddings together? same thing

 

open bar, people drinking, people dancing together, people having a good time.

[gianno]

I am hereby coining a term that I'll call Coincidentally Sex-Adjacent Behavior. It involves an activity that's almost always connected to sex...but, this time, it has nothing to do with it, honestly!

 

Two examples would be dating and dancing:

 

"Whoa, whoa. Why are you suddenly bringing up sex? I thought that you just liked buying meals for me, and listening to me talk about myself! Wow, I had no idea that men looked at dating in a sexual way!"

 

"Whoa, whoa. Why are these guys looking at me? I'm just dancing, out here shaking my body in public. Wow, I had no idea that men looked at dancing in a sexual way!"

 

Willful naiveté or genuine cognitive dissonance? You be the judge. Either way, it allows women to be shocked--shocked, I tell you--that sexual subtext is going on here.

 

And that sexual subcontext is precisely why it is disrespectful, but I hope this does not lead to Katrina questioning my security again. Let me say it again trust and inappropriate behavior are two separate things.

[Doc Blaze]

Its not wrong. Its wrong based on your boundaries...which is fine.

 

 

I see things other ways as I give my SO the rope to hang themselves.

 

 

if your gf is reacting this way already, she might agree with the way you feel but trust me, she will bring

up you controlling what she does later on when you question something else.

[Seraphim]

Did you talk to her?

[katrina1980]

 

Point is with each post you talk about trust, that has nothing to do with this. Your partner can do things that don't betray your trust but are still not appropriate I hope you know that

 

First off, I am extremely open with respect to what my boyfriend does or doesn't do.... IMO relationships are not a prison, so short of cheating, lying, breaking the law and/or blatant disrespect I don't have an issue with most things, for example, him going out without me, going away with his friends on the weekends etc. I TRUST HIM and vice versa. If I didn't, I would break up with him, period. I don't interrogate him when he returns about what he did. I will ask him if he had a good time, he will say yay or nay and why and that's that.

 

I trust he didn't step over the typical boundaries that relationships require and leave it at that. If he chooses to share what he did, I am open and interested in listening.

 

So far so good, I have had three very long term RLs and these type of space and boundary issues never arose.

 

Second, of course my partner can do things to break my trust and when that happens, I am done. The RL is over cause without TRUST, you have nothing.

 

I'll give you an easy example off the top of my head, let's say I'm married and wife steals something from someone obviously she didn't betray my trust but she did do something that was wrong. Now whether I can trust her or not after seeing these actions is irrevelant but the factors at hand is that thinking something is wrong doesn't have to do with insecurity

 

I agree, as I said breaking the law is a dealbreaker for me.

 

All that said, with respect to my post that you quoted, I was on your side, trying to help you.

 

But yet you felt compelled to attack, therefore I have no interest in trying to help you anymore, so I wish you luck, I am done.

[Blue Spiral]

never heard of families dancing at weddings together? same thing

 

open bar, people drinking, people dancing together, people having a good time.

 

I've never heard of that, no. I've only been to a few weddings in my life, and they were religious in nature, with no alcohol or dancing.

 

You learn something new every day...

 

Edit: just to be clear, I still think that "family dancing" is weird, wedding or no wedding. (Also, apparently, a lot of hookups happen at weddings, so the family being there may not be much of an impediment.)

[gianno]

Did you talk to her?

 

She called me and apologized for her overreaction, she said it's just that she still is dealing with how her ex treated her and she is sensitive to everything. I said I understand and I didn't mean to start an argument, I just wanted to talk about it after because it did make me uncomfortable. After we talked about what happened I understood the whole situation and we hashed out clearer boundaries for the both of us

[Seraphim]

She called me and apologized for her overreaction, she said it's just that she still is dealing with how her ex treated her and she is sensitive to everything. I said I understand and I didn't mean to start an argument, I just wanted to talk about it after because it did make me uncomfortable. After we talked about what happened I understood the whole situation and we hashed out clearer boundaries for the both of us

Ok, so why keep arguing here? Just don't make this about every single issue . We are not parents to our partner .

[Longview01]

general response to questions around insecurity and trust. I trust her 100 percent and don't believe she would betray me in any way, again though that is not the point of this discussion. A partner should be able to bring up something that made them uncomfortable in a calm manner between both parties without being denigrated (that is the real here, that is controlling). You know why screaming is controlling because it makes me question ever bringing something up agan because she will react negatively and this if it goes that far, will make it so hard for me to speak and I will be constantly walking on egg shells around her. That is the true control here

 

It worries me that you can't see how your actions are controlling and you are projecting your problems onto her.

 

I worry about her safety

[katrina1980]

I've never heard of that, no. I've only been to a few weddings in my life, and they were religious in nature, with no alcohol or dancing.

 

You learn something new every day...

 

Edit: just to be clear, I still think that "family dancing" is weird, wedding or no wedding. (Also, apparently, a lot of hookups happen at weddings, so the family being there may not be much of an impediment.)

 

Ever been to a Jewish wedding ceremony/reception? I've been to many.

 

Notorious for families dancing together in a group... same for Greek weddings... .and there is nothing "weird" about it.

[abitbroken]

general response to questions around insecurity and trust. I trust her 100 percent and don't believe she would betray me in any way, again though that is not the point of this discussion. A partner should be able to bring up something that made them uncomfortable in a calm manner between both parties without being denigrated (that is the real here, that is controlling). You know why screaming is controlling because it makes me question ever bringing something up agan because she will react negatively and this if it goes that far, will make it so hard for me to speak and I will be constantly walking on egg shells around her. That is the true control here

 

If you trust her completely, then TRUST HER COMPLETELY. And TREAT her as if you trust her completely. My DAD would say "we'll discuss this when you come home young lady" or "we'll discuss this in the morning. I don't want to hear the excuses. just get home right now. I am coming to get you." I remember him saying the latter to my brother once and my brother was really stepping out of line and deserved this from my dad for his own safety.

 

If she was going out to the bar to dance every moment that she was not with you - then yes, that is a time to start to discuss what you are comfortable with and not comfortable with. "hey, I noticed that every moment we are not together, you are at a bar. Fill me in - what's going on?" Or "I am more of a homebody and not used to this. When I used to go to the bar, I was only there to meet women..."

 

If its a one off thing, tell her "glad you had a good time" and if it starts to become a pattern, take note.

 

She spent time with her family that night - not with you - so the time between then and when she went to bed was HER time, not your time.

 

The reason why she "reports" to you is that she is used to having a controlling boyfriend and is used to a boyfriend needing to know everything and is doing at as a signal of trust - if you know what she is up to, then you are not going to swoop in there and try to control her or be insecure because she is giving you her itinerary.

 

Anyway, the point is, you should NOT have been "concerned" about what she is was up to if she TOLD you about it AND you say you Trust her. If you still were "concerned" - its not like you were concerned she would get hurt driving home - you were concerned that you were out of control - she went somewhere that was unpredictable for you and YOU could not handle it. There is a difference between talking to someone about your concerns vs bringing up things that are NOT concerning at all.

 

Don't lie and say "i trust her" - and then question her about what she is doing. The better way to get answers is "Great, Glad you had fun. Is it a cool place, would you want me to take you there for drinks sometime?" Be interested, not suspicious

[gianno]

If you trust her completely, then TRUST HER COMPLETELY. And TREAT her as if you trust her completely. My DAD would say "we'll discuss this when you come home young lady" or "we'll discuss this in the morning. I don't want to hear the excuses. just get home right now. I am coming to get you." I remember him saying the latter to my brother once and my brother was really stepping out of line and deserved this from my dad for his own safety.

 

If she was going out to the bar to dance every moment that she was not with you - then yes, that is a time to start to discuss what you are comfortable with and not comfortable with. "hey, I noticed that every moment we are not together, you are at a bar. Fill me in - what's going on?" Or "I am more of a homebody and not used to this. When I used to go to the bar, I was only there to meet women..."

 

If its a one off thing, tell her "glad you had a good time" and if it starts to become a pattern, take note.

 

She spent time with her family that night - not with you - so the time between then and when she went to bed was HER time, not your time.

 

The reason why she "reports" to you is that she is used to having a controlling boyfriend and is used to a boyfriend needing to know everything and is doing at as a signal of trust - if you know what she is up to, then you are not going to swoop in there and try to control her or be insecure because she is giving you her itinerary.

 

Anyway, the point is, you should NOT have been "concerned" about what she is was up to if she TOLD you about it AND you say you Trust her. If you still were "concerned" - its not like you were concerned she would get hurt driving home - you were concerned that you were out of control - she went somewhere that was unpredictable for you and YOU could not handle it. There is a difference between talking to someone about your concerns vs bringing up things that are NOT concerning at all.

 

Don't lie and say "i trust her" - and then question her about what she is doing. The better way to get answers is "Great, Glad you had fun. Is it a cool place, would you want me to take you there for drinks sometime?" Be interested, not suspicious

 

I DO trust her, don't tell me I don't. Trusting her and thinking she wouldn't do anything that would betray my trust, does not mean that I don't think she could do something that is wrong (which wouldn't betray my trust but still would be wrong). I trust my brother for example but I know he has made decisions in the past that I have considered wrong, so your arguments is illusory.

[katrina1980]

Nevermind, not worth it.

 

Glad she apologized.

 

Best of luck.

[Blue Spiral]

Ever been to a Jewish wedding ceremony/reception? I've been to many.

 

Notorious for families dancing together in a group... same for Greek weddings... .and there is nothing "weird" about it.

 

I don't know any Jewish people or Greek people. (I just checked; my state apparently has less than three thousand Jewish people in it.) I suspect that my life experience may be different than yours, which probably influences my definition of "weird".

 

Anyway: don't be afraid to have and enforce boundaries, OP.