What would you do? Flaky guy question.

[n83]

Hey guys,

 

I'm curious about something and just wanted your opinions. I am trying online dating (ugh) and started messaging back and forth with this guy that I seem to have a lot in common with. We didn't message a ton, only for a day or two, but then he asked me if I would be interested in meeting up for a date some time. I don't want to go out with someone before I've even spoken to them, so I messaged back and said, How about we talk on the phone first? He agreed to this and we exchanged numbers and he told me he would be home by 7pm the next night and would call me for our first chat.

 

However, he didn't call or text me the first night. The next morning (which was yesterday) I got a message on the dating website from him:

 

"Hey sorry I didn't call last night. Didn't end up getting home until like 10. Are you available tonight?"

 

I said yes.. we again planned to talk later yesterday evening after 7pm. AGAIN he didn't call or text me last night. Then last night at 12:15am he sends me a message on the dating site again:

 

"I give up. I've had training the past 2 days with people from out of town and we have gone out for dinner and drinks afterwards and I just got home tonight. Hopefully we can talk before this weekend if you're still interested."

 

So now he's "stood me up" TWICE without a message or anything letting me know that he couldn't talk. I am not cool with that kind of unreliability and flakiness. Certainly if it were me, I wouldn't have flaked TWICE unless something serious came up, or would have at a MINIMUM sent a text or something of the sort.

 

I haven't responded yet. I was thinking about either not responding at all, or respond back with something like this:

 

"I'm sorry we keep missing each other, but I'm thinking that if we can't even work out a time to talk on the phone, we probably won't have much luck trying to date, either. Good luck on your search."

 

So I'm just curious how most of you folks would handle this.

Give him another chance or brush him off? Ignore his message? Send a buhbye message like the one I wrote out? Thoughts??

[IAmFCA]

I don't take phone appointments very seriously, and consequently I stopped making them. To me, this would tell me not that he's flaky, or has stood you up, but that he views the phone as something that happens when he isn't surrounded by people.

 

I've been doing OLD for a few years and now often meet people without talking first. I can't stand the telephone.

[Wiseman2]

He's multidating and can't talk while he's out on a date, so prefers messaging. He's made some excuses and your note sounds like a good way to get rid of a time-waster.

"Hopefully we can talk before this weekend if you're still interested."-"I'm sorry we keep missing each other, but I'm thinking that if we can't even work out a time to talk on the phone, we probably won't have much luck trying to date, either. Good luck on your search."

[Billie28]

He was on a date and didn't expect it to go on as long as it did. He misread the length of that date as something promising. The likelihood is that the girl subsequently messaged him ... Nice to meet you , but ...

 

So, he went back to second choice.

 

Just because you are second choice online doesn't mean you wouldn't be first offline. However, you need to not be so available or you will only ever be first choice because you are available.

 

If you respond in the example you gave, he will only be glad that he didn't call. It's way too needy sounding and especially as you have only exchanged a few messages online and yet to chat.

 

Respond without comment on the fact that he didn't call when he said he would , simply reply and say chat soon. Let him try make a time that suits him, but say you are not free that day as you will be out. If he doesn't arrange an alternate time, let it go!

[Gloworm]

Eh, why not give him ONE last chance to keep his phone appointment. Tell him he better take his phone appointments seriously!.. otherwise you wont tolerate a total flake.

[j.man]

Like ITIC, I've never been hot on the whole "phone date" thing. Some people swear by it and more power to them, but for better or worse I've met a lot of people after talking on the phone with them only to find out they're nothing like they were on the phone. It sounds like this guy doesn't put much stake in it either. If you two have been messaging back and forth for some decent amount of time, he's probably going to want to cut to the chase and meet in person. His nonchalant "after x time" windows for calling are pretty indicative of that.

 

By all means, you're within your right to nix him for being flaky with the calling, but I wouldn't assume it would translate to his attitude and punctuality with regard to actual dates.

[Batya33]

I think talking on the phone is essential before a first meet and I would give him another chance. I'd assume that it was a work thing that got in the way at least one time and he did apologize. One time, a guy told me he would call me the next day (Monday) and didn't call till Wednesday with no apology or even acknowledgement so I ended our contact. But, had he apologized/had an excuse I probably would have given him another chance.

[chamachama]

Honestly, nothing can be really told for sure until you meet someone in person. Anyone can be anyone they want online or over the phone. Oh you want me to be a banker who loves long walks on the beach and saves lost puppies as a side job? "Hi I'm a banker, and guess what?! I'm actually walking along the beach right now! (no actually I'm in my mom's basement painting creepy doll heads) and on a mission to find a lost beach puppy=)"

 

Then after months of texting and talking on the phone... you finally give in and meet the dude... he's a bank janitor (not that there is anything wrong with that... but its not what you want in your profile), who's more of a mouse trapper as a hobby than a puppy saver. He has two teeth and one hair and his breath smells like underpants.

 

 

Meeting someone in person is the ONLY way to actually find out if there is mutual chemistry. Texting, emailing, and phone conversations are a complete waste of time and energy. Eventually you'll figure that out after a few experiences similar to the above scenario.

 

Why make people jump through hoops that mean absolutely nothing? Just meet the guy for a quick drink and get it over with. You'll know within 15 minutes if there is a connection or not. Sheesh.

[DancingFool]

First thing is never ever get hung up on a dating profile and some e-mails and think that you have anything in common with that person. You may, you may not. Until you meet face to face, you really truly honestly have no clue.

 

As for talking on the phone first....meh....waste of time. Anyone with OLD experience under their belt knows one thing - everything before you meet face to face is a complete and utter waste of time. You will either click with each other in real life or, 99% of the time, you will not despite great e-mails, amazing phone conversations, getting your hopes up and then.....no chemistry in person.

 

Basically, you see him as flaky, he sees you as putting up hoops for him to jump through in order to meet. As for phone appointments at large, I personally won't do it unless it's work. You are basically setting yourself up for disappointment like this - things come up. Just call me when you can. If I'm free at that moment, we'll talk. If not, I'll call back and hopefully we can connect. While it may sound less reliable, I've never had an issue connecting with people quickly that way. It's just easier and less formal of I must make this uber important call and make time and clear my schedule, etc., etc., etc.

 

Finally, that first meet - don't look at it as a date and really, just keep it as simple as possible - coffee, wine bar, ice cream. Something public but that you can end in 15-20 mins or extend as you wish. It's more like a meet and greet to see if you actually want to go out on a real date with each other. That's all it is.

[j.man]

he sees you as putting up hoops for him to jump through in order to meet.

Precisely, especially if you two were going back and forth with emails at some length.

 

Again, not saying it's right or wrong to want to do the phone call, but you're seeing first hand the significance he associates with it.

 

Is it just that you want one phone call before meeting? Or are you going to be expecting to build a rapport over the phone just as you did with the emails?

[HeartGoesOn]

"I'm sorry we keep missing each other, but I'm thinking that if we can't even work out a time to talk on the phone, we probably won't have much luck trying to date, either. Good luck on your search."

^

The above is a perfect response, (imo). I wouldn't waste another minute trying to rationalize this nonsense.

[IAmFCA]

For OP and as a follow up to the posters who are saying he is multidating and making excuses: No, stay off this road of guessing at other people's motivations.Go by actions.

 

Take him at his word: Like he said, he's had people around him at work who are going out after, which would be important to him both professionally and socially and also would be difficult to anticipate - 100% credible. Take him at his word.

 

There is no value in second guessing other people. If you find you are doing that and that there is emotional energy around it, then make yourself detach a smidgeon.

 

Also, a huge cardinal rule for you to remember, and it is difficult to remember because the media will tell you endless messages that are wrong:

 

You are neither judge nor jury, trainer nor coach, mother nor babysitter. If someone behaves in a way that displeased you, simply move on.

 

Your suggested text conveys a sense of punishment for his bad behavior. Not your place. What's bad to you is no big deal to someone else (like, me, for example).

 

Stay neutral. Neutral!

 

If you want a phone call first, stick to that. If you'd like to know in advance when he is going to call, stick to that. Own it. Say

 

I understand. I tend to have my phone on silent, but if you'll text me when you would like to call, I will see that and reply back. (Even this, to me, seems overly complicated for a phone call. Like, can he not just call you whenever, and either you answer or you don't?)

 

Or, if you want to meet, say,

 

You know, I usually like a call first but I've been wanting to try that new vegan coffee place. Would you like to meet there?

[Pixels]

For OP and as a follow up to the posters who are saying he is multidating and making excuses: No, stay off this road of guessing at other people's motivations.Go by actions.

 

Take him at his word: Like he said, he's had people around him at work who are going out after, which would be important to him both professionally and socially and also would be difficult to anticipate - 100% credible. Take him at his word.

 

There is no value in second guessing other people. If you find you are doing that and that there is emotional energy around it, then make yourself detach a smidgeon.

 

Also, a huge cardinal rule for you to remember, and it is difficult to remember because the media will tell you endless messages that are wrong:

 

You are neither judge nor jury, trainer nor coach, mother nor babysitter. If someone behaves in a way that displeased you, simply move on.

 

Your suggested text conveys a sense of punishment for his bad behavior. Not your place. What's bad to you is no big deal to someone else (like, me, for example).

 

Stay neutral. Neutral!

 

If you want a phone call first, stick to that. If you'd like to know in advance when he is going to call, stick to that. Own it. Say

 

I understand. I tend to have my phone on silent, but if you'll text me when you would like to call, I will see that and reply back. (Even this, to me, seems overly complicated for a phone call. Like, can he not just call you whenever, and either you answer or you don't?)

 

Or, if you want to meet, say,

 

You know, I usually like a call first but I've been wanting to try that new vegan coffee place. Would you like to meet there?

 

vegan coffee place

 

... I hate our culture...

 

But otherwise, you say things that make sense. You should be listened to.

[Blue Ridge]

... I hate our culture...

 

But otherwise, you say things that make sense. You should be listened to.

 

I did a coffee spit-take!

[SherrySher]

I would say he was on a date and wasn't too bothered with you. I personally wouldn't bother, I mean, how difficult is it to message or ring someone back??

His efforts are sad...and this should spell out for you what being with him is going to be like. I would go back to the site and find someone better. I doubt I would even bother replying to him.

And yeah..all the people saying...give him the benefit of the doubt...well, you did do that the first time. He sounds incredibly flaky and not as into you as you might have thought.

[missmarple]

I I doubt I would even bother replying to him.

 

This.

 

During my first year or more of online dating I gave people a second or third chance. He didn't call when he said he would..maybe he just doesn't care much about phone but is a nice guy....let's give him another chance. He sent me a stupid message or said something stupid on the phone...well, maybe he'll be different in person. He called me 30 mins before our date to cancel...maybe it was really work or whatever excuse he used...etc etc etc.

 

Now, after having gone on more than 300 first dates, I don't give second (and much less third) chances any more. I pay attention to how someone behaves right off the bat.

[n83]

I would like to clarify something .. it wasn't a "phone date" .. we had only sent, by my count, less than 8 messages back and forth within only a day or two. This isn't someone I've been talking to at length. I see no point in going out of my way to meet him in person if we aren't even capable of having a conversation, or don't have anything in common. I live in a major city so it will probably be, at minimum, a 2 hour escapade just to get myself fixed up and drive 45 minutes to go meet him somewhere.

 

Also, it was not an "appointment". He just told me - twice - that he would be home by 7 and would call some time after that. No problem, I didn't sit by the phone or anything.

 

I just think it's kind of sucky that he said he would call TWICE and then failed to do so. I mean, if you're trying to make a baseline good impression in the beginning, this really isn't the way to go about it.

 

I guess reliability is a lost art.

[greta96]

I wouldn't even bother to come up with possible reasons for his flaking. All I know is that when I really want to make something happen, I make it happen. Ok let's say something really did come up the first time around, life is unpredictable. But...the fact that he flaked twice shows that he is not too concerned with making a good first impression, and that would be the end of it for me. I mean, I wouldn't accuse him of anything because this is the nature of online dating, it's flakey and you two are strangers anyway, you can't expect a stranger to put in the same amount of effort he would if you two knew each other, but still....I would not waste my time meeting someone who couldn't be bothered from the very beginning to set aside 5 minutes and follow through with the plans. It's not like the conversation needed to last more than 5 minutes!

 

I wouldn't reply to him any longer for the simple reason that after his flaking, my interest in him would drop to zero.

[n83]

And yeah..all the people saying...give him the benefit of the doubt...well, you did do that the first time. He sounds incredibly flaky and not as into you as you might have thought.

 

Agree with you, he probably isn't, but we haven't really talked all that much. I'm not invested or anything and neither is he.

 

In any event, I was just curious as to what most people would say. I'm kind of surprised that a lot of the discussions on this thread are about whether or not we should have even bothered talking on the phone or not. To me, that's a minimum and a must. I would like to talk at least 2 or 3 times before meeting up in person.

[n83]

Take him at his word: Like he said, he's had people around him at work who are going out after, which would be important to him both professionally and socially and also would be difficult to anticipate - 100% credible. Take him at his word.

 

Even if I did take him at his word, I'm not sure I'm impressed. He is almost 40 years old. A guy that goes out drinking until past midnight on a Wednesday night isn't really what I had in mind. And apparently, he did it twice in one week, if I'm to be believing him. (Although the first night he was apparently only out until 10 or 11pm...)

 

I'm not really sure why a tax accountant would need to be wining and dining people until the wee hours of the morning in the middle of the week, but hey .. who knows.

[n83]

I wouldn't even bother to come up with possible reasons for his flaking. All I know is that when I really want to make something happen, I make it happen. Ok let's say something really did come up the first time around, life is unpredictable. But...the fact that he flaked twice shows that he is not too concerned with making a good first impression, and that would be the end of it for me. I mean, I wouldn't accuse him of anything because this is the nature of online dating, it's flakey and you two are strangers anyway, you can't expect a stranger to put in the same amount of effort he would if you two knew each other, but still....I would not waste my time meeting someone who couldn't be bothered from the very beginning to set aside 5 minutes and follow through with the plans. It's not like the conversation needed to last more than 5 minutes!

 

I wouldn't reply to him any longer for the simple reason that after his flaking, my interest in him would drop to zero.

 

I'm thinking the way you're thinking Greta. My interest level has dropped significantly. I think I'll just not respond. If he has half a brain in his head, he'll understand why I didn't bother to.

[reinventmyself]

Agree with you, he probably isn't, but we haven't really talked all that much. I'm not invested or anything and neither is he.

 

In any event, I was just curious as to what most people would say. I'm kind of surprised that a lot of the discussions on this thread are about whether or not we should have even bothered talking on the phone or not. To me, that's a minimum and a must. I would like to talk at least 2 or 3 times before meeting up in person.

 

I vote for talking on the phone.

I have found I can eliminate half of them that I might have otherwise gotten dressed for, to go out and meet.

[Wiseman2]

True, it's not about whether anyone wants to phone or not before a meet but that he's blown it off twice, besides he had the option of saying, 'hey lets just meet' then planning that.

I just think it's kind of sucky that he said he would call TWICE and then failed to do so. I mean, if you're trying to make a baseline good impression in the beginning, this really isn't the way to go about it

[IAmFCA]

... I hate our culture...

 

But otherwise, you say things that make sense. You should be listened to.

 

Yeah well, it's more interesting than meeting at Dunkin Donuts?

[IAmFCA]

I'm thinking the way you're thinking Greta. My interest level has dropped significantly. I think I'll just not respond. If he has half a brain in his head, he'll understand why I didn't bother to.

 

Then there's your answer.

 

He ended up out with work colleagues - in accounting this can be a fairly significant event, actually - and you ended up not interested.

 

Moving on.

 

The yin and the yang of OLD in a nutshell. It's easy to move on. And... it's easy to move on.