Commitment issues? (A general discussion)

[mhowe]

We spent a lot of quality time catching up on the seasons of House of Cards last winter ----- it was our Sunday afternoon veg-fest!!!!!

[Rosti87]

We spent a lot of quality time catching up on the seasons of House of Cards last winter ----- it was our Sunday afternoon veg-fest!!!!!

I won't lie I like the odd weekend binge on Netflix.

[Hermes]

What's a Netflix bender? LOL. Not sure what House of Cards is either. Oh yes, I do have a TV set, but I'm not a T.V. buff.

[Batya33]

It's not "my way of doing things" -I am referring to the people I know - some work outside the home, some don't, some work part time.

[Hermes]

That's OK Batya. No sweat LOL. I also know some people who work part-time, and some (not many) who don't work outside the home.

But, the general trend here is both spouses working outside the home. The more fortunate can conduct their work from home of course, there is that possibility.

[itsallgrand]

Batya, I love how you saved money knowing you would one day like to have a child and would like the option of staying at home at least for some years while the child is young.

I think that is so smart and responsible, and it would be great if this was taught as simple financial management just like saving for a vacation, or having an emergency fund. It makes so much sense. We save for other important times in our lives, so why not for a child?

My experience with people is knowing very few who even considered this. On the male side, yes. Wanting and putting money aside prior to marriage and having children.

Far less women though. As though it simply did not occur to them to do this.

It's interesting.

[Heather Dawn]

I, personally, grew up with two types of women:

 

The first group graduated high school, married right away, and then worked as hair dressers until their first baby, at which point they became SAHM. (Not sure why, but they were ALL hair dressers first.)

 

The second group went to college and became school- and career-focused, and only began marrying and having children in their mid-to-late 30s (or chose not to have kids at all, which seems to be the case more and more).

 

I don't think I know any women who stayed home when there were no children to care for. That just seems bizarre to me.

[Batya33]

I, personally, grew up with two types of women:

 

The first group graduated high school, married right away, and then worked as hair dressers until their first baby, at which point they became SAHM. (Not sure why, but they were ALL hair dressers first.)

 

The second group went to college and became school- and career-focused, and only began marrying and having children in their mid-to-late 30s (or chose not to have kids at all, which seems to be the case more and more).

 

I don't think I know any women who stayed home when there were no children to care for. That just seems bizarre to me.

 

I know very few women who chose to stay home just because they got married but I know of situations where the woman got laid off and decided not to look for another job while trying to conceive or the job market was bad and she had elderly parents/in laws to care for.

 

Many of my friends pursued careers and professions and also married on the younger side.

[Hermes]

Indeed Heather.

 

But the point is that there is nothing "wrong" with either approach. People are entitled to their choices.

Even when there are children, the majority of women I know still go out to work. This may not be the case everywhere, of course. Continents, countries, cultures.....

[Batya33]

That's OK Batya. No sweat LOL. I also know some people who work part-time, and some (not many) who don't work outside the home.

But, the general trend here is both spouses working outside the home. The more fortunate can conduct their work from home of course, there is that possibility.

 

Yes, I did look to work at least partly from home and only during school hours (with some flexibility getting work done at night) -very hard to find in my field.

[Ms Darcy]

Interesting discussion.

 

I personally value marriage highly as a core personal value. It's like saying to me that I shouldn't throw away a healthy, committed relationship because my partner doesn't want children, doesn't want to live in the burbs, or doesn't want a relationship with my family.

 

I think it's fine to feel like you want to be with a man whether or not we had children, but I would be very unhappy with this life.

 

So that's why I can't really relate to the idea not leaving a relationship simply because I want marriage because it's a significant social and spiritual goal for me. And what made our lives great is that my husband agrees 100 percent. That, to me, is true compatibility.

[Hermes]

Here's how it is currently in my home country:

 

 

 

"The average age of grooms last year was 34.7 years, while the average age of brides was 32.6. The average age of the groom in civil marriages was 37.9 years while the average age of the groom in Roman Catholic marriages was 33.2 years.29 Mar 2014"

[Batya33]

Batya, I love how you saved money knowing you would one day like to have a child and would like the option of staying at home at least for some years while the child is young.

I think that is so smart and responsible, and it would be great if this was taught as simple financial management just like saving for a vacation, or having an emergency fund. It makes so much sense. We save for other important times in our lives, so why not for a child?

My experience with people is knowing very few who even considered this. On the male side, yes. Wanting and putting money aside prior to marriage and having children.

Far less women though. As though it simply did not occur to them to do this.

It's interesting.

 

Yes -I think it occurred to me because my original plan was to get married in my 20s to the man I was dating then but I broke off the engagement -we had talked a lot about my delaying grad school so I could work outside the home until we had children (which we wanted rather quickly after the wedding) so I think that triggered my whole thought process about financial needs and of course I had to consider that I might end up adopting as a single mother which also requires financial resources. I agree that people should plan in advance but many women have children in their 20s shortly after finishing school/grad school.

[notalady]

Interesting discussion.

 

I personally value marriage highly as a core personal value. It's like saying to me that I shouldn't throw away a healthy, committed relationship because my partner doesn't want children, doesn't want to live in the burbs, or doesn't want a relationship with my family.

 

I think it's fine to feel like you want to be with a man whether or not we had children, but I would be very unhappy with this life.

 

So that's why I can't really relate to the idea not leaving a relationship simply because I want marriage because it's a significant social and spiritual goal for me. And what made our lives great is that my husband agrees 100 percent. That, to me, is true compatibility.

 

This, absolutely.

 

I think that sometimes people can be 'shamed' for wanting and/or asking for more, as odd as that sounds. "The relationship is going so well, why give it up just because you want marriage?" Or "dating is going well, why not just go with the flow?"

 

I think MD explained it all.

 

I think people should be able to do whatever the hell they want. However, be responsible with that decision, which means that don't get involved with someone who wants something different.

 

It's perfectly fine for someone to want to be single, my cousin (female, 32) is a good example, she's not dating anyone and not looking, because she's just perfectly happy being single. Sounds good to me.

 

I guess what bothered me is when someone who, for example, does not want to date seriously or doesn't want marriage, don't make that 100% clear at the appropriate time (e.g. first few dates or early in dating), and on the flip side, the other person may also not make what they want clear at the start because they are worried they are asking for too much, or being too pushy (the aforementioned 'shame' coming from within), hence resulting in these situations where one person wants more and the other doesn't. And the person who wants more may sometimes be made to feel like they are asking for too much or that they shouldn't want more (more shame, sometimes both internally and externally).

[notalady]

Although, on the topic of having issues, what I found in many people I spoke to who wants to be single or casual only, is that it comes from a place of fear. Fear that they cannot take on the efforts and responsibilities that come with having a committed relationship, and/or fear that it will all fall apart.

[Batya33]

Although, on the topic of having issues, what I found in many people I spoke to who wants to be single or casual only, is that it comes from a place of fear. Fear that they cannot take on the efforts and responsibilities that come with having a committed relationship, and/or fear that it will all fall apart.

 

And certain people want marriage because they are afraid of being alone.

[notalady]

And certain people want marriage because they are afraid of being alone.

 

Touché!

[Hermes]

Certainly the divorce rate would point to the truth that far too many people get married for entirely the wrong reasons, and yes, the utter fear of being alone (and therefore "anything" will do) is one of those reasons.

 

To that we can add the copycat syndrome. "Janie over in accounts, and Molly in HR, and Jill down in reception are all getting married. I'd better get a move on".

[TMifune]

Certainly the divorce rate would point to the truth that far too many people get married for entirely the wrong reasons, and yes, the utter fear of being alone (and therefore "anything" will do) is one of those reasons.

 

To that we can add the copycat syndrome. "Janie over in accounts, and Molly in HR, and Jill down in reception are all getting married. I'd better get a move on".

 

You mean self-imposed pressure from your perception of society's demands is a bad reason to tie yourself to someone for life?

[Hermes]

TM.

 

One needs to think for oneself, not do something (particularly an important step like marriage, for instance) just because others are doing it.

[TMifune]

TM.

 

One needs to think for oneself, not do something (particularly an important step like marriage, for instance) just because others are doing it.

 

Buuuut....Lemmings are so cute!

[itsallgrand]

Unfortunately, I think the shaming goes in every direction. Shame towards people who choose not to seek commitment. Shame on those who do. Shame on everybody.

 

I found it interesting, NAL, that you mentioned shaming in regards to wanting more. Like someone wanting marriage, but in a situation where their partner is not wanting that or not making that a priority the same way they are.

 

I found a lot of times embarassed to admit that I was scared to commit to someone again, because of the implication there that was somehow something wrong with that. To be scared, I mean. But the more thought and time I have put into it, the more I think and feel that it is not something bad nor shameful. And the time single for me was a very healthy choice for me at the time. And I think there is a healthy level of fear and a spectrum where it can run to unhealthy. Same goes for those who may be scared to hold their ground on wanting marriage, or whatever else. It can be healthy and it can become unhealthy when it starts to limit the choices one makes that could truly meet their needs.

 

I like thinking of it as compatibility. Like how Ms. Darcy described her core personal values, and marriage being one of them, and her husband shares that with her. That's important. It's important to share the same values and be on the same track and future with each other.

 

So instead of asking questions like "why don't they want to commit more" or "why does this person want marriage so bad", it's so much easier to just not place judgment on any of it and just follow what is true for you.

[notalady]

Excellent points there, itsallgrand!

[Hermes]

Well put, ItsAllGrand.

 

Also, if a person wishes to remain a bachelor (or spinster) all his or her life, they should not be pilloried for their choice.

I recall and maybe you do, a rather heated discussion on just this topic in a certain thread (over a thousand posts) some months back.

 

Again, of course, the intention needs to be clear. The confirmed bachelor should IMO state that he does not wish to marry or enter any commitment.

[LoveSoDeep]

As for being together for a long time but no marriage. Can't speak for all cases, but the few guy friends that I have who are in similar relationships, the reason they won't marry is because they are just not confident that they are truly with the right woman. It's very much keeping that door open just in case. So yes, they are monogamous, they are committed to the relationship, they don't cheat, but every so often they vent and it's always because some aspect of the relationship/compatibility is missing and it scares them from making that absolute commitment. It's almost like they have to give up on the idea that they might find that 100% package some day.

 

I have a 29 year old son who is doing something similar. He has a girlfriend who is 31 and she has their whole life planned out for them all the way down to the name of their kids. Her intentions are more than clear.

 

My oldest son has always been a little reluctant about commitments. Not to be confused with being reluctant about women. He's always been lucky with the ladies and I often wonder if he'd ever settle down.

 

I asked him a couple weeks ago what his intention was and he admits that he is in love with this girl but marriage `really wasn't on his radar'

In that moment, what would have been the obvious response from his mother might have been `maybe you ought to tell her'

But I bit my tongue because the long thoughtful silence between us, spoke for itself.

 

As a parent of young adult males I know I have no leverage and I all I can do is sit back and see how this plays out.

This is his life lesson to learn.

 

I skipped a bit in the middle but these two things stood out to me I think this is true more now of the younger generation they have been told how great they are from day one and they feel they deserve that 100% package. I just don't understand why no one has told them IT DOESN'T EXIST! No one is perfect....they aren't even perfect (I know, how dare I even suggest that!) They are never going to fine the perfect man/woman. When they find what makes them happy...why would they look for more? It confuses me.

 

And reinvent....why do you say you have no leverage? I think you do and you should. If you think there may be a better way of handling things...why not tell him? Sure he may not listen but I bet he still respects your opinions....what if you did speak up and it changed how he feels about his current situation? I'm just saying just because you're bot adults doesn't mean you can't still be a parent. (and maybe you know this already, so this isn't just for you or for you specifically.... it's for all parent's of adult kids.)