Is He Being a Good Friend or Attempting to Seduce Me?

[Hermes]

What indeed, TMifune.

 

"What would be the point of telling a member of the opposite sex that you aren't attracted to how amazing you are in bed? What's the payoff?"

[Naomi99]

This is an interesting observation that I missed. What would be the point of telling a member of the opposite sex that you aren't attracted to how amazing you are in bed? What's the payoff?

 

I didn't tout myself as being a good lay to doc2, but Doc2 does know the chemistry with doc1 was something I'd never experienced before.

 

Doesn't really matter. ToV's advice still applies.

[Naomi99]

To be fair, OP's playing her side of the game too. She's not a hapless "victim" of "vulturing" here.

 

 

I think I was a hapless victim up to maybe five days ago. Definitely from this day on, I would be a just as guilty of taking advantage of him.

 

When I say doc2 knows the whole story of doc1, I think this is what he knows: Older gentleman, wild sexual chemistry, cannot commit and rarely took me out, my concerns with his health ailments, we only saw each other once a week, he told me if I wanted something more serious, find a more serious boyfriend. Doc2 definitely doesn't know about the parking and driving home in the middle of the night because I would have been so embarrassed to tell him that. In hindsight it makes me looks so sad.

[reinventmyself]

And it never crossed your mind that after these dates where he's just your cuddle-bear brother/cousin who you can fart in front of, he goes home and wanks himself into a frenzy thinking of you? And it never crossed your mind that giving him your company on outings you admit seem like romantic date-type activities wouldn't bring him to the point of feeling crazy enough about you and sore enough in the groin from near-constant autoeroticism, that this silence from you would almost feel cruel?

 

It did cross her mind and that's what brought her here in the first place and posed the question.

Add in the fact that in the initial posts she was waffling about whether or not she should become romantic with him.

I don't understand why she is so upset that he's pursuing her now because she was fine with the attention a moment ago.

You can't have it both ways.

[abitbroken]

But since you've up to now accepted the invitations, the contact, the companionship, it sounds like HE'S starting to think of YOU as a girlfriend...or at least, as someone he's dating.

 

 

 

NO MORE TALKING!!!! I JUST DID THAT WITH THE DOCTOR LAST MONTH!!!!! NO MORE NO MORE. I don't want anything different so why do I have to initiate a talk? HE wants more so HE should do it.

 

 

But the talking got you the answer you wanted. You found out how you stood. And then it was rightfully over. if you say "you know - i am glad that we are such good friends" is enough for a start. Its more about telling him what to expect from you and telling him what you want and its up to him to follow suit or not. Or "hey, I need to get some other stuff done. I know you want to keep going out every night, but how about you wait for me to plan the next one?"

 

What "time" he put in? It's been two weeks, three at the most. He's crazy if he thinks that way.

 

I'm sick of men.

 

4 years of friendship.

 

And as far as still expecting dinner when there is no ballgame - he just wants to see you and is being persistent.

 

Telling him "look, i really like you as a friend - but that is all" instead of accepting every date and then suddenly doing a u turn and pushing him away. That way if he really wants a relationship, he will back off and find someone else, or if he really truly just means friendship and not "but she'll cave", then you won't feel so anxious about what he is thinking. And you can be like friends and see eachother a lot sometimes, and then sometimes you don't see eachother for awhile, etc. It prevents anyone from making themselves crazy. You can say because he has always been your good friend, or you can say that you need time before dating - whatever you want to say that is true. But he IS giving you what you complained about with the doctor - he is pursuing you more than the doc1 did, and he is reciprocating, etc.

 

Soooo much easier to say upfront or as soon as you know what you feel.

[abitbroken]

I think I was a hapless victim up to maybe five days ago. Definitely from this day on, I would be a just as guilty of taking advantage of him.

 

When I say doc2 knows the whole story of doc1, I think this is what he knows: Older gentleman, wild sexual chemistry, cannot commit and rarely took me out, my concerns with his health ailments, we only saw each other once a week, he told me if I wanted something more serious, find a more serious boyfriend. Doc2 definitely doesn't know about the parking and driving home in the middle of the night because I would have been so embarrassed to tell him that. In hindsight it makes me looks so sad.

 

Stop with the victim stuff. you aren't. He asked you out, you accepted and had a good time. If a guy knows that a girl likes dandelions and brings her some, is that manipulative, is that making her a victim? No, he's being thoughtful. even if he had to ask her friend what her favorite was. Men love to solve problems "oh, i don't want a situation where I only see someone once a week if that". "okay, i'll see you every day!"

[tiredofvampires]

This is an interesting observation that I missed. What would be the point of telling a member of the opposite sex that you aren't attracted to how amazing you are in bed? What's the payoff?

 

I probably worded that in a way that was inaccurate. I don't recall the OP stating that she told doc2 that she was/is a good lay or amazing in bed, specifically. When I said "what an amazing lay you were with the doc", I really meant that if you're telling a man that you've had wildly amazing sex and the sexual chemistry was through the roof, most men will make their inferences that this means you're quite the hot sexual dynamo. It's kind of implied, even if you're not bragging. Also, based on her persona here, where she speaks of her "Naomi essence" and in her last thread, "her perfect heart-shaped behind", I'm wondering whether that kind of coquettish presentation comes out with doc2. If she can tell a bunch of strangers such things, perhaps she expresses herself that way to someone she considers a long-time friend whom she can be herself with, too. I'm willing to guess doc2 heard at least a few provocative details that would have stoked his own lust in all the post-breakup crying in the beers.

[Naomi99]

No, I didn't see this coming at all!!! I'm not quite sure of his dating history after divorce so I'm not sure if he's been without companionship. He could be getting laid right now, for all I know!

 

This is what was running through my mind in the beginning: He needed someone to accompany him to functions, I was sad and alone, he didn't want to go alone, so he asked me. I said sure, why not. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat.

 

I sound like such a naive Pollyanna now that I read your post. There was a huge part of me that was still mourning the loss of doc1 the first few times I went out with doc2. I was in a zombie-like state. The last thing on my mind was figuring out how my presence was affecting doc2's groin when my own groin was missing the affections of Doc1. And since doc2 and I already have a history of doing things together, he knows precisely what I enjoy in terms of cuisine, music and venues. He revolved all of the "dates" around things I'd be interested in, it made me super happy and excited and, yes, diverted my attention from doctor1. I got "swooped up" by the vulture.

 

Before I posted here, I told a close mutual GF (doc2 plays golf with her husband) about the europe thing and if she thinks he's starting to like me as more than a friend. She said "No, he's just lonely and enjoys your company. Go have fun and keep him company. You're both not doing anything."

 

While I do have experience with men, but I have poor intuition for their motives, esp. this one, because it wasn't like we met on a dating site or introduced through friends as potential partners where dating is the ultimate goal. He was a friend.

 

 

 

You're right. I don't have to view this as a dreadful talk, once again. I can view this as practice; an opportunity to grow into a better person. An opportunity to learn.

[Naomi99]

Also, based on her persona here, where she speaks of her "Naomi essence" and in her last thread, "her perfect heart-shaped behind",

 

!!! I said that? hahahahah! Yeah, those are my definitely my choice of words, but i'm sooooo not that! For the most part, it's joking upon my flaws. I've also said I have a lovely singing voice when I know I'm tone-deaf, so "perfect heart-shaped behind" really translates to the body of a 12-year old gymnast.

[tiredofvampires]

And I agree, about the victim thing. You said his attentions and these outings were helping you get over doc2. You genuinely had a good time AND you were medicating yourself with his company.

 

That's hardly a victim. And that's even if he was advancing his own agenda because he thought he had a chance. Yeah, maybe if he were a saint he would have restrained himself and his desire all for your sake. And I do think if he were wise, he would have restrained himself for the sake of his own dignity, as well as not putting himself out there when you could easily be on a rebound if you reciprocated. So he's been a fool. But I'm cutting him some slack for not being a saint, and doing what most red-blooded guys would do, with as much encouragement as he got and having known/cared about you long enough for this not to amount to just another opportunistic "vulture".

 

And again, I'll state that there's some inconsistency between your saying he was a friend that you felt safe with and wondering if he "just wants to get into your pants." Honestly, I have a lot of sympathy for the position this dude is in. He's got a good track record of not being predatory, and now that you're available he's gotten a little too carried away in hoping -- carried away enough that it looks really bad and he's lost his gauge. But he was basing it on your cues, and they WERE mixed signals because even here you said you wanted to know what it was like dating him, trying to see if you could become more attracted to him, being "curious" about that prospect. So while you were testing your abilities, he was getting "green light, green light, green light" on his end as a signal. Can hardly blame the guy, and certainly can't claim that carrying out these explorations of your feelings which doubled as distraction to get over the last relationship made you hapless.

[Naomi99]

Stop with the victim stuff. you aren't. He asked you out, you accepted and had a good time. If a guy knows that a girl likes dandelions and brings her some, is that manipulative, is that making her a victim? No, he's being thoughtful. even if he had to ask her friend what her favorite was. Men love to solve problems "oh, i don't want a situation where I only see someone once a week if that". "okay, i'll see you every day!"

 

Okay, maybe not "hapless victim," but maybe blind sighted to ulterior motives.

[Naomi99]

I don't understand why she is so upset that he's pursuing her now because she was fine with the attention a moment ago.

You can't have it both ways.

 

I already told him I can't make it tonight to BB game and then he said well, meet me at restaurant instead.

 

I already said no last night and no to tonight. He thinks because the venue of bb stadium has changed to new restaurant, I'll suddenly say yes?

 

He is pushing it and becoming annoying.

[tiredofvampires]

!!! I said that? hahahahah! Yeah, those are my definitely my choice of words, but i'm sooooo not that! For the most part, it's joking upon my flaws. I've also said I have a lovely singing voice when I know I'm tone-deaf, so "perfect heart-shaped behind" really translates to the body of a 12-year old gymnast.

 

Oh, well when you said those things it didn't come accross as sarcastic at all. You were talking about what doc1 will be missing out on, and since you'd told us all the colorful things you brought to his life, it seemed reasonable to take these comments at face value.

 

 

You're right. I don't have to view this as a dreadful talk, once again. I can view this as practice; an opportunity to grow into a better person. An opportunity to learn.

 

Exactly. As the other male poster said, being DIRECT is a skill that would serve this situation -- both of you -- very well. I'm not a big fan of "hints", when a lot has been invested in a relationship of any kind, and strong feelings are involved.

 

Definitely, it's practice. Practice for something you would do well to practice as much as you can -- proper and clear communication is practice, but it's also the endgame.

[Naomi99]

 

And again, I'll state that there's some inconsistency between your saying he was a friend that you felt safe with and wondering if he "just wants to get into your pants."

 

It was the Europe comment that threw me off. I said okay, I'd go. Initially I'm picturing us eating crepes at some cafe, not rolling around in the sheets. When the words had time to settle in with the accumulation of future dates, I freaked out and posted here.

 

Honestly, I have a lot of sympathy for the position this dude is in. He's got a good track record of not being predatory, and now that you're available he's gotten a little too carried away in hoping -- carried away enough that it looks really bad and he's lost his gauge. But he was basing it on your cues, and they WERE mixed signals because even here you said you wanted to know what it was like dating him, trying to see if you could become more attracted to him, being "curious" about that prospect. So while you were testing your abilities, he was getting "green light, green light, green light" on his end as a signal. Can hardly blame the guy, and certainly can't claim that carrying out these explorations of your feelings which doubled as distraction to get over the last relationship made you hapless.

 

I think one poster here pegged it when she said I am trying to convince myself he's Mr. Right because he's the antithesis of Doc1. I think dating him based on that foundation is not the best choice for me.

 

There is already a huge lack of communication as is. It's a poorly executed romantic relationship, if it were to happen.

 

It was an interesting thought to entertain the past few days tho.

[saluk]

I already told him I can't make it tonight to BB game and then he said well, meet me at restaurant instead.

 

I already said no last night and no to tonight. He thinks because the venue of bb stadium has changed to new restaurant, I'll suddenly say yes?

 

He is pushing it and becoming annoying.

 

He hasn't handled this situation well, but he's been through a rough divorce. Give a guy a break! You haven't handled this situation well either. You've just been through a crazy rollercoaster with doc1. Give yourself a break!

 

A ball game is a longer commitment than a restaurant. How did you turn down the ball game exactly?

 

For him, he's been inching a little closer to you the whole time. Not with "ulterior motives", but because from his faulty reading of the situation it felt right. And it kept seeming OK because every inch forward was reciprocated. You have a history, which means you already connect on a certain level, and you are both single and lonely. Now while wisdom may say that lonely is not the best foundation to build a relationship on, it's definitely been the start of many of them. What's your damage?

 

Again, if the situation bothers you, you have the utmost control over changing it. Waiting for him to get some kind of hint is something that women have been trying to do for centuries. Subtle hints are great if the other party is using their brain. They are useless when it comes to feelings. "I'm not into you" is all you have to say. If he presses after that THEN you can complain about how pushy he is, and I'll throw my hands in the air with you with a cry of "stupid men".

[tiredofvampires]

For him, he's been inching a little closer to you the whole time. Not with "ulterior motives", but because from his faulty reading of the situation it felt right. And it kept seeming OK because every inch forward was reciprocated. You have a history, which means you already connect on a certain level, and you are both single and lonely. Now while wisdom may say that lonely is not the best foundation to build a relationship on, it's definitely been the start of many of them.

 

This is well-said. And my read, too.

 

Subtle hints are great if the other party is using their brain.

 

And subtle hints (or louder hints) are also useful when you've barely met or known a person who is being pushy or wanting something you can't give. Someone who is new to you and whose intentions and character are unknowns. But with someone you have history with and care for, both parties deserve more than "hints" to communicate emotions and where things stand.

[ThatwasThen]

This. And he knows everything that happened in that relationship with doc1 which makes me feel kinda naked.

 

Why do you think a friend would use you for the very thing you broke up with someone you didn't want to for? How can you think that of him? That he would do that to you? Geeze!

[mhowe]

It would appear that her friends' intentions are to seduce, manipulate, blindside and take advantage of Naive, hapless, victim, and clueless OP.

[tiredofvampires]

And again, the nature of this friendship is rather confusing to me. This guy is someone who has shared some of the intimate details of his divorce with you, and you've commiserated on things, and you've become rather open and natural with eachother, but you have no idea what his current sex life or dating ops consist of? This is something you can't surmise or read at all, based on all the information, verbalized and non? A man who keeps trying to please you with where he takes you on dates, and then offers to take you on a GETAWAY is someone you just see as a crepe-eating companion until you think more about it? Hmm.

 

It's really hard to get a read on what you could and should have known and not, when I'm not there to see the dynamic myself, but it's just a bit odd...

 

I can see myself going for the "let's just go out to functions to keep eachother company," but I can also see myself being vigilant about all that I know of him to this date, and all that is not being said, so that I tread carefully in pacing this and not creating momentum.

 

But you WANTED to see if dating him could warm you to him romantically, so he picked up on that and ran with it.

[Naomi99]

As I was reading this, he and I are both on different pages and haven't considered how our actions might affect the other person. We both keep going on and on because we enjoy each other's company. I've been clueless the majority of the time how I may have been a tease to a poor gentleman who is starved for affection, and he's clueless to how I am unavailable physically and emotionally fresh out of a breakup from Doc1.

 

I told him I couldn't go to BB game because I was slammed with work, which is not a lie. I am. He said I need to eat anyway, take a break and meet him at the new place.

[ThatwasThen]

It would appear that her friends' intentions are to seduce, manipulate, blindside and take advantage of Naive, hapless, victim, and clueless OP.

Not according to their close mutual friend who knows them both better then any of us:

Before I posted here, I told a close mutual GF (doc2 plays golf with her husband) about the europe thing and if she thinks he's starting to like me as more than a friend. She said "No, he's just lonely and enjoys your company. Go have fun and keep him company. You're both not doing anything."

 

I think there are a lot of mole hills being made into mountains about this whole situation.

[mhowe]

No, not according to her friend. All of those adjectives were used by OP.

[ThatwasThen]

Their close mutual friend said "No" to the question of "do you think he's starting to like me more then a friend."

[Hermes]

Maybe close mutual friend is a mind-reader too......

[ThatwasThen]

Maybe close mutual friend is a mind-reader too......

 

Close mutual friend has seen them both in action. None of us have. Close mututal friend would have more of a more accurate "guess" then any of us would.