Out with the old, in with the now

[IAmFCA]

"The potential for long term sustainability".

 

Maybe simple rule of thumb -if you need to use catch phrases/multi-syllabic words in this type of situation - a man you've known and been dating for months now - then you're probably in the throes of rationalization, to use another multisyllabic term.

 

Obviously we know it ended well in Jerry Maguire but it bears repeating, what Dorothy says: "I love him! I love him for the man he wants to be. And I love him for the man he almost is."

 

Please don't waste your time on vaguely defined potential when all it means in reality is (1) he gets the benefit of your precious free time and space; and (2) you know that it hampers you from finding someone who actually wants long term. Timing is an essential part of it. Sure, if he said he'd be ready in a month and would call you then, that's fine. But obviously he wants his cake and eat it too (and yes I know you're not having sex with him).

 

 

And, no, he hasnt said he'll be ready in a month, which I appreciate because nobody can be certain of their timing till recovery is done.

 

He hasn't tried to sell me on dating him in as is or as almost condition. Only to stay on my radar. That's a pretty light impact. He has refused opportunities that would advantage his position, which was the responsible thing to do while he was trying to stay on the middle distance.

 

I am absolutely open to finding a match; I do not "know" that his existence is interfering with that. I know that if I were my dad, and I had to choose one of these guys to manage my health like we are supporting dad in managing his, it would be slushie. If I needed someone to help me in business, that would be slushie. He sees possibility where others see limitations. So, he gets to stay on my radar, however distant a blip it might be at times. If I needed solace, that would be slushie. The guy I've met only once may be good at this stuff too, I.don't know yet. The fact remains that slushie and I dedicated a similar proportion of our incomes to send our kids to the same school, for the challenge and the structure, without respect or concern for the social status of same. We make the same, and have similar visions of empty nest life.

 

There is a lot there, if there is anything at all.

[Batya33]

"I do not "know" that his existence is interfering with that. "

 

Interesting way to express your perspective/standard on that.

 

There might be a lot there IF he wanted to be in a relationship with you. He doesn't. He might in the future, you also might win the lottery in the future, or take a year off to travel, etc. I don't question your interest in being in a relationship with him if he wanted the same. I question why you're giving him the privilege of your company when he doesn't want what you want in terms of a relationship. It's almost the same approach you took with MWFN - and that didn't seem to work for you especially as you described in your "mirage" post about him. It's your time, your life and I am concerned that once again you're going down the path of lying to yourself and settling for scraps.

[IAmFCA]

"I do not "know" that his existence is interfering with that. "

 

Interesting way to express your perspective/standard on that.

 

There might be a lot there IF he wanted to be in a relationship with you. He doesn't. He might in the future, you also might win the lottery in the future, or take a year off to travel, etc. I don't question your interest in being in a relationship with him if he wanted the same. I question why you're giving him the privilege of your company when he doesn't want what you want in terms of a relationship. It's almost the same approach you took with MWFN - and that didn't seem to work for you especially as you described in your "mirage" post about him. It's your time, your life and I am concerned that once again you're going down the path of lying to yourself and settling for scraps.

 

I think your concern is logical. I did end up settling for scraps with MWFN because I was loyal and deeply attached to the mirage I thought was him.

 

Also. I was refuting your sentence re interference. My standard is higher than that: watching whether I am available.to explore and attach to.others. Any challenge in that area is likely to accrue back to MWFN because separating from that attachment was hard for me. I went too far too fast.

 

Since MWFN is the backdrop here, its helpful to contrast Slushie, who is is hyper responsible in his relationships. He doesn't pretend to be dating me, courting me, in a relationship with anyone, or even ready for a relationship based on conversations of 2 and 3 months ago. After countless first dates, I am developing two other dating relationships

 

Btw I didn't end up seeing him today after all. He didn't reach out at the appointed time, which was the deal - that if work intervened, then there's no plan. After work we both switch into parent mode. Of course I have not contacted him; I've just kept going.

[Batya33]

Seems to me it's easy for him to be "hyper responsible" when it comes to you since he's just seeing you when it is convenient for him and typically at his house - not a lot of effort. Certainly he's been straightforward about not wanting a relationship with you - maybe you're reading too much into his vague references to possibly being ready in the future (and if not, then to me that's not responsible -that's more like him wanting you to wait for him pretty indefinitely which ventures into selfish territory IMO).

[IAmFCA]

Seems to me it's easy for him to be "hyper responsible" when it comes to you since he's just seeing you when it is convenient for him and typically at his house - not a lot of effort. Certainly he's been straightforward about not wanting a relationship with you - maybe you're reading too much into his vague references to possibly being ready in the future (and if not, then to me that's not responsible -that's more like him wanting you to wait for him pretty indefinitely which ventures into selfish territory IMO).

 

We had some very direct conversations at year end after which I said, Why no interest? Is it timing or compatibility? He said, it isnt that I dont have interest and I do think we are compatible. Then something about his focus being on getting his own life in order. Sometime after that he asked me to visit and I said no, that we each deserved an all-in thing.

 

I didn't communicate after that, until my dad was expected to pass. Since then his invitations have been for a visit which I declined, a coffee at a place near me that I made, a hike that was never really an invitation due to weather, a desire to come visit me here which I treated like a joke, a drink out which I wasnt available for which is why he went home and why I ended up at his house , and yesterday's afternoon that didn't happen. In conversation, he's mentioned work challenges getting resolved etc.

 

I don't invest meaning in any of it, and don't reciprocate. It's a waste of my time. If he asks, it's an indication of intention on his part, else he wouldn't ask. Also he switched to using voice not text. So I let him call to ask; otherwise I keep to myself.

 

I haven't heard from him since yesterday morning. I'd forgotten until pulling up ena.

[Batya33]

Yes, if he asks to see you it's safe to assume he wants to see you at the time he asked for. Not sure what that has to do with his intention to have a serious romantic relationship with you. Sounds like two different things to me.

[IAmFCA]

Yes, if he asks to see you it's safe to assume he wants to see you at the time he asked for. Not sure what that has to do with his intention to have a serious romantic relationship with you. Sounds like two different things to me.

 

Yes, of course it is. That's why it doesn't interfere with me getting involved with someone else.

[IAmFCA]

For who knows what reason, I sent MWFN a text last night calling him out on his multi-year, multi-woman pattern of dishonesty. I did it, because it was blocking me in some way and I needed to speak my mind.

 

In the world of relationships, why bother. In the world of ITIC cleaning out old clutter, it was worthwhile. I know that what I say to MWFN resonates with him for a long time, that I am being heard. It was really bugging me to envision him going out into the world carrying on as if he were the boy scout persona he espouses. I wanted him to know he was seen, that I saw him. I am not that person anymore, he said. (like I give a darn.)

 

I am glad I said me peace.

 

____

 

 

I woke to Cutie texts. Lots of positive energy coming from that one.

 

____

 

 

No word from Slushie. That's a little odd, frankly. It isn't relevant to me; in theory, it is relevant to him since he is the one who was trying to arrange a plan. So, odd.

[missmarple]

wanted him to know he was seen, that I saw him. I am not that person anymore, he said. (like I give a darn.)

 

Which person? Sorry, I'm confused!

[IAmFCA]

Which person? Sorry, I'm confused!

 

Well, I ended up in a long exchange with MWFN - the man I fell flat on my face for, and was dumped by, a year ago. It had been boiling up that he was FOS, and I never called him out on it. So I did. He eventually said I'm sorry for lying/withholding information as much as he did.

 

I have been processing a last layer of letting go of the mirage that was him. I enjoyed so well being his friend. But he lied at my expense, and that's a friend I don't need. I never called him out on it. Now I did.

 

He said again how for a time he thought I was the one for him, to please know how special it was, blah blah blah. Mostly, I wanted him to know I know how much he lied, more than he knows himself. And that he has been lying since long before we met, and I enumerated the women to whom he lied. Now, I need to forgive myself for accepting the murky values within myself and him that allowed us to connect so well, and move on. Maybe I will one day see him as a whole person with lovable traits. Its hard right now to see him as I do, through a filter with the word LIAR printed on it. Nothing behind that filter is as it seems. Its like meeting someone in Alice in Wonderland. Its awful to have him telling me that he will always pray for me - wait, did he actually say pray? - that I am one of the most compliment compliment compliment people he has ever met - and all I can say is, in effect, you are a lying snake. I very much dislike thinking ill of someone else.

[faraday]

Well, I ended up in a long exchange with MWFN - the man I fell flat on my face for, and was dumped by, a year ago. It had been boiling up that he was FOS, and I never called him out on it. So I did. He eventually said I'm sorry for lying/withholding information as much as he did.

 

I have been processing a last layer of letting go of the mirage that was him. I enjoyed so well being his friend. But he lied at my expense, and that's a friend I don't need. I never called him out on it. Now I did.

 

He said again how for a time he thought I was the one for him, to please know how special it was, blah blah blah. Mostly, I wanted him to know I know how much he lied, more than he knows himself. And that he has been lying since long before we met, and I enumerated the women to whom he lied. Now, I need to forgive myself for accepting the murky values within myself and him that allowed us to connect so well, and move on. Maybe I will one day see him as a whole person with lovable traits. Its hard right now to see him as I do, through a filter with the word LIAR printed on it. Nothing behind that filter is as it seems. Its like meeting someone in Alice in Wonderland. Its awful to have him telling me that he will always pray for me - wait, did he actually say pray? - that I am one of the most compliment compliment compliment people he has ever met - and all I can say is, in effect, you are a lying snake. I very much dislike thinking ill of someone else.

 

I still feel like that about my mr wow 2.5 years post break up. It's still tainted with LIAR and MANIPULATOR...not sure how long it takes for that to end. I wore my rose tinted glasses around him for the same amount of time...I thought I'd be over that feeling of betrayal by now. At least it's a removed feeling. When I think about it, I think about how faraday in the past was duped....it's not personal anymore...so I guess that's good.

 

 

Do you remember at the time how adamant you were though about his pure ness....how he was a victim....and a good human?

 

For me, that kind of denial (and I mean, we all experience at times) is something I see with regards to how you view slushie....you very much wear rose tinted denial glasses...and I know you're saying, "no faraday, I see him as he is, and I am just enjoying what he has to offer right now"....but! you said and had that same view with MWFN stringing you along for months after the break up too...

 

And it's your life. It's your journal. You can do whatever you want. You're allowed. But as an impartial outsider...I'm just going to say this and leave it here (with no judgement because I've done the same thing you're doing and sometimes we just have to live it)....he might be a great catch (like we thought our mr wows were when we still had our glasses on) and you can defend him and make excuses for him (you did it many time for slushie,and many times with MWFN- and I've done it too) but ** it won't change the outcome. **. It will delay it. But not change it.

 

Because a guy that wants you...that is really digging you...won't treat you like this. He just won't. And I know you'll say, "well, it's my fault too, I don't have time...and I'm not investing much in this..." But you are giving him headspace...and you, miss ITIC, deserve so much more from a partner than what this guy can offer you...and every bit of headspace this guy is getting...is a waste. It's a waste of your optimistic, positive, see-the-best-in-everyone thoughts...and that's a shame....because those beautiful thoughts of yours should be going to someone who thinks the same as you, and adores you back and treats you like the precious human being that you are. You're too good for this. You're too sweet. And I hate watching these guys take advantage of how you always see silver linings in them. I want you to find a guy that sees that about you, and wants to protect that in you- I want you to find someone that cherishes you so much that he'd never do anything to make you doubt his love and dedication for you.

 

And slushie has blown it. He's dropped the ball so many times. And you keep giving him chances. We teach people how to treat us. We create the bar that is the standard of treatment we find acceptable. And I really believe that people need to set the bar high, because those that are worthy will RISE to the bar to meet or exceed our expectations. And...Right now, you're teaching him that you have very low expectations from him. That he doesn't need to reach any bars because you like him enough that you'll keep taking him back every time he disappoints you, every time he fails to meet the bar so badly that you get fed up and delete him and block him.

 

And that makes me sad. Because you're awesome.

[IAmFCA]

I still feel like that about my mr wow 2.5 years post break up. It's still tainted with LIAR and MANIPULATOR...not sure how long it takes for that to end. I wore my rose tinted glasses around him for the same amount of time...I thought I'd be over that feeling of betrayal by now. At least it's a removed feeling. When I think about it, I think about how faraday in the past was duped....it's not personal anymore...so I guess that's good.

 

 

Do you remember at the time how adamant you were though about his pure ness....how he was a victim....and a good human?

 

For me, that kind of denial (and I mean, we all experience at times) is something I see with regards to how you view slushie....you very much wear rose tinted denial glasses...and I know you're saying, "no faraday, I see him as he is, and I am just enjoying what he has to offer right now"....but! you said and had that same view with MWFN stringing you along for months after the break up too...

 

And it's your life. It's your journal. You can do whatever you want. You're allowed. But as an impartial outsider...I'm just going to say this and leave it here (with no judgement because I've done the same thing you're doing and sometimes we just have to live it)....he might be a great catch (like we thought our mr wows were when we still had our glasses on) and you can defend him and make excuses for him (you did it many time for slushie,and many times with MWFN- and I've done it too) but ** it won't change the outcome. **. It will delay it. But not change it.

 

Because a guy that wants you...that is really digging you...won't treat you like this. He just won't. And I know you'll say, "well, it's my fault too, I don't have time...and I'm not investing much in this..." But you are giving him headspace...and you, miss ITIC, deserve so much more from a partner than what this guy can offer you...and every bit of headspace this guy is getting...is a waste. It's a waste of your optimistic, positive, see-the-best-in-everyone thoughts...and that's a shame....because those beautiful thoughts of yours should be going to someone who thinks the same as you, and adores you back and treats you like the precious human being that you are. You're too good for this. You're too sweet. And I hate watching these guys take advantage of how you always see silver linings in them. I want you to find a guy that sees that about you, and wants to protect that in you- I want you to find someone that cherishes you so much that he'd never do anything to make you doubt his love and dedication for you.

 

And slushie has blown it. He's dropped the ball so many times. And you keep giving him chances. We teach people how to treat us. We create the bar that is the standard of treatment we find acceptable. And I really believe that people need to set the bar high, because those that are worthy will RISE to the bar to meet or exceed our expectations. And...Right now, you're teaching him that you have very low expectations from him. That he doesn't need to reach any bars because you like him enough that you'll keep taking him back every time he disappoints you, every time he fails to meet the bar so badly that you get fed up and delete him and block him.

 

And that makes me sad. Because you're awesome.

 

This is so true.

 

On the mr wow thing, thank you for telling me your experience. Also, you gave me a clue as to how to frame it for myself. The itic of that era was involved. I'm the current itic, and I'd never go down that road again.

 

On the slushie front, also true. Now that the day has passed with still no word from him, it's ever more true. Of course I am not contacting.

 

Who knows why people do what they do. I don't need to know why, only what works for me and what doesn't. How you expressed the person who is right for me - that is exactly right. My late friend from years ago was like that. He was so.brutally plain spoken. It was a blessing. He worried about me being a single woman, like a bunny in the lion's playground. He was always right about everything. I've learned so much. Still, you're right. I've this lesson to learn.

 

Thank you.

[IAmFCA]

I had endes the text with MWFN with the assertion that he wasnt, and it wasnt, what I thought. He picked the discussion back up last night, with a slew of texts talking about how special our time was, how magnificent the connection, and so on for an essay's worth. Pleading that I might revel in the knowledge of its specialness, knowing how seriously he had thought about making a life with me, that he doesn't really know what happened, and so on. I said, You are beginning to understand what happens when you play loose with the truth.

 

And I got back, this morning, I understand.

 

Satisfying to have broken up with the memory.

[IAmFCA]

And Slushie checks in with an apology.

 

So, what am I doing today? Cleaning house. Literally. Because I am putting things into their proper place left and right.

[IAmFCA]

And Slushie checks in with an apology.

 

So, what am I doing today? Cleaning house. Literally. Because I am putting things into their proper place left and right.

 

And a request to see me as soon as I get back.

 

LOL, by then he will be away.

[IAmFCA]

OK, I am off to refocus on my mancation.

[IAmFCA]

Update

1. MWFN conversation seems over. I feel I could now have a public encounter successfully. I've said what I need to. Also, I am rewriting my history. I had an amazing fling with the sexiest guy on the planet, fling-wise, but bat crazy. And with that, boom. The past is in its proper place.

 

2. Mancation was fantabulous and just what the doctor ordered.

 

3. Cutie is unfolding into the picture of a really great guy.

 

4. Slushie is keeping a foot in the door; I want him to. Not ready to eliminate options to focus on cutie alone.

 

5. Naked butt guy checked in, Still out there? Because I dropped. The field is too crowded right now to deal with him, and I feel he may be too indiscriminate.

 

So, it's been that sort of day. Not sure when my next date is, because of Easter and family etc. If I.could see Cutie tomorrow,I would. Have date tomorrow with friend in this city. Not relationship material, having a drink and a laugh and an uber home.

[missmarple]

Naked butt guy checked in

 

Who's this one?

[Batya33]

"Slushie is keeping a foot in the door; I want him to. Not ready to eliminate options to focus on cutie alone."

 

Based on what he has told you and how he has acted, what kind of option is he other than for a casual acquaintance you hang with once in awhile?

[IAmFCA]

Lol naked butt guy is an online prospect who sent me a pic of him naked looking out over a beautiful landscape, clearly taken by an ex on some hiking trip. Immediately followed by an urgent ishishish! I sent the wrong pic!!

 

Was hysterically funny...

[IAmFCA]

Re slushie...

 

You're right. Not an option.

[itsallgrand]

Haha if he has a nice body and knows it, maybe it wasn't an accident!

[missmarple]

Lol naked butt guy is an online prospect who sent me a pic of him naked looking out over a beautiful landscape, clearly taken by an ex on some hiking trip. Immediately followed by an urgent ishishish! I sent the wrong pic!!

 

Was hysterically funny...

 

LOL!!! Just for the laugh, I'd meet this one.

[IAmFCA]

Haha if he has a nice body and knows it, maybe it wasn't an accident!

 

The thought occurred to me!

 

He seems to have a good personaity and to be smart, so I gave him a pass, but.it has definitely worked against him. I'm like, well, who else has been there?'

 

Total hypocrite on my part.

[IAmFCA]

Cutie has asked me to stay with him next weekend Friday to Sunday. I'll be a gentleman and treat you like a princess he says. I declined. But I said yes to Saturday. We have a hike and dinner planned. I will stay at his house saturday night. It will add a new layer of familiarity.

 

It will mean, for me, no Slushie, except over daytime food/tea (at least, until I feel like that's wrong too).

 

My life is beginning to reflect who I am on the inside. I guess it always has. It's beginning to reflect who I want to be. Fun fun fun to be me inside and out.

 

Fun to think of having good kisses next weekend.