Court again with no expanded visitation and now mediation

[chitown9]

The judge at your last court appearance seemed to be favorable to you and it will be the same judge at your next court appearance, so I think that things are looking good for you. Just keep on doing as you have, and I think you will come out of this a happy man. chi

[ynguns251]

Chitown9 I hope so because I am emotionally tired from all this and it just keeps dragging and dragging along for nothing. She can call me whatever she wants as my therapist stated and she is the one who is to be considered the less cooperative parent as it stands. I just wNt joint custody and if I could have my last name that is great too but I cannot allow her to micromanage me anymore or manipulate the courts. I was advised to sur her in court after for court costs and also emotionsl damages but what am I really going to get from this ( nothing ) and then just create more tension. She is doing this on purpose to try and show the judge we cannot get along so then she will have sole custody but I can shoe how her and her lawyer had made it hard for me to be a father and also how she refuses to abide by agreements set in mediation. There is no reason I am to be supervised and that is exactly what it is ( supervised and the judge I pray sees this and stops it.

[22n32]

sargon. brilliant finally a person of truth and reason what really happens. you are 100% right on everything you have said. as a father who has been dealing with a mother who has alienated me for the last 2yrs. and i have gone no where.

 

ive tried everything, half the time she doesnt even cash my check, ignores my calls. once it took 7 weeks to see my daughter for 2hrs..gbthe mental and financial pain became so strong . one point i lost 45lbs.. ive came to relize no matter how hard i try and how much money i tjrow at it i will never be more then a strange guy that comes to his daughters house for few hrs. i will never have a proper rel ever in this fashion.. only way i have ever seen it, is when both parents are okay and mother gives right to see child anytime. i have a friend his got kids. it didnt work . but hes allowed to see kids anytime. if he just wants to come over for 10min in the evening to read a book. he can.. this is the only way it works.. otherwise we will just be the strange guy spending few hrs here and there. its no good and you will be a broken man mentaly and financialy..

 

i still try with my ex to reason with her. i send letters explaning how this is damaging our child in the long run. and lets just be friends and work together. she just ignores them.

 

couple wise men told me best thing u can do for ur sanity and financial well being. because if u get few hrs every other weekend. geezzz i spend more time in traffic. but if ur so broken u cant even by her a ice cream cone or have a straight head. its no goid for either of u guys. me or my daughter.

 

this guy said.. step aside for now. love from the side. put ur child support in an acct for ur daughter. get utself right and strong . and document everything get things dated, notirized and build a book of proff how u tried and the mom kept u away.. and he says one day ur time will come, and ur daughter will be old enough to think and make decesion on her own without the brainwash of her mother. when thst time comes be strong person all ways. and if ur daughter has question why did u leave me. have proff thst u didnt want to and u tried for yrs. and its then when u can build a true rel with ur daughter. yes u will miss her growing up. but seeing her u will miss her growing up to. and every other sat u will get ur wounds opened and salt poured on and u go back home. waiting in pain all week. its no good or do u want ur daughter to see u in this fashion..

 

this is the only thing that works, to nutrilize the power of a mother who allianatize. most of the time it back fires and child resents mother for keeping her away from her father and goes on to build a better rel with the father in the end..

 

 

i left this forum for long time. because some of the women in this forum were so pro women and kept looking down on me, when they had no idea and never walked a day in my shoes..

 

sargon. thank you again. for bringing truth and reason.. from father who has been going thru this for total of 28months now. ;(

[sargon]

Unfortunately the post above mine lays it out about as clearly as it can possibly be explained, from someone who has obviously been there.

 

You can't win.. all you can do is try to keep things civil with your wife so you can have more time with your child. Failing that, you can try to see your daughter as much as possible, but expect things to stay pretty much as they are now for the foreseeable future.

 

As this poster above me said, things can change over time. The kids grow up, and they figure it out. As long as you continue to make efforts to stay in their lives.. lots of fathers can't take the stress, and the rejection, and the expense of court battles that go on for years, and they walk away. When you are in their shoes you can understand why, but every man has his limits, and some of us can tolerate more than others.

 

To the Op.. make yourself an expert in parental alienation, read books, there are websites and forums devoted to this topic. Read Alec Baldwin's book that details his own divorce- that book should be a "must read" for all divorcing men who are facing an uphill custody battle. His situation is not unlike yours. When he talks about the first weekend he is finally able to be alone with his daughter.. it brought tears to my eyes. Still does a bit as I write this.

 

She is doing this on purpose to try and show the judge we cannot get along so then she will have sole custody but I can shoe how her and her lawyer had made it hard for me to be a father and also how she refuses to abide by agreements set in mediation. There is no reason I am to be supervised and that is exactly what it is ( supervised and the judge I pray sees this and stops it.

 

She's playing hardball, not giving you an inch. I'm not getting how she was able to pull off supervised visitation for you without there being any claims of abuse.

[lukeb]

There is no reason I should not have joint decision making. I am her father and also have to have a ya or nay in certain issues especially if it costs me money I don't have. She makes 20k more then I do with my support and her salary. I have to have a life too and money to spend on my daughter.

 

The reason why is because you can't get along with your ex, not even agree on the simplest things, how do you think you're going to be involved in joint decision making on far more complicated matters like how your daughter should be raised?

[lukeb]

This is actually a very simple question, but I don't think you have really thought about it. WHY do you think your ex is doing the things she is doing?

[ynguns251]

Well Luke ( Because she wants me gone, but it is not happening buddy ) I am lucky to have parents who love me and also who are very well off. I am tired of being treated like a criminal by a scorn woman ( actions show it ) and I am the father and I have rights no matter what. My father had said to me ( Jim I and you need to fight this till the end now to make sure you will be able to see your daughter ) and I agree I want her to be with me and spend time outside the ex girlfriends house.

[ynguns251]

Luke you live in Canada correct? so how do you know about laws here in the U.S.? and are you married,gay,straight? as I am confused as you appear to be just commenting on things you have not experienced.

[lukeb]

Luke you live in Canada correct? so how do you know about laws here in the U.S.? and are you married,gay,straight? as I am confused as you appear to be just commenting on things you have not experienced.

 

It is probably true, she wants you gone, but I don't think that is the biggest reason why she is doing the things she is doing. I think the biggest reason she is doing the things she is doing is because she sees you as a threat. The biggest reason she sees you as threat is your insistence on having joint custody, she sees it as someone taking he child away. She is like a lioness protecting her cub. I also don't believe she believes you are motivated by the love of your daughter and want to know her. You may thing that is not important, but when you try to resolve conflicts, it is important to know what motivates people and why they do the things they do.

 

 

You don't need to know much about the laws in the US to see it is a horrible idea to give joint custody to two people who want nothing to do with one another, and can't make simple decisions without having to resort to going to court. It is clear that that will the biggest motivation for any judge to leave the primary custody with the mother. It is also what I would do, it is easily by far the best decision anyone could make. It would seen pretty clear that any of the important decisions regarding the raising of your daughter is going to stay with the mother, and you will get some minor visitation rights, I would have been very surprised at any other outcome.

 

It is true I am not experienced in legal matters, but I am pretty good at cutting through a lot of BS, and look at what motivates people, and why they do the things they do. Whether you realize it or not you are learning and evolving, you can tell when you go through earlier posts when the things that concerned you were different.

[Cheetarah]

I also don't believe she believes you are motivated by the love of your daughter and want to know her. You may thing that is not important, but when you try to resolve conflicts, it is important to know what motivates people and why they do the things they do.

 

I actually have to agree with this, completely. When my ex had his conveniently timed 'change of hearts', I wanted to know why, straight from the horse's mouth. In the end, I realized that wasn't his motivation at all. Now, our situations have played out much differently. However, you two are high conflict and with that comes zero trust on both ends. She suspects motives/agendas, and you also suspect your own of her.

[sargon]

Luke you live in Canada correct? so how do you know about laws here in the U.S.? and are you married,gay,straight? as I am confused as you appear to be just commenting on things you have not experienced.

 

It doesn't really matter where LukeB calls home. His statements are spot on, and universal, even though you don't want to hear it.

 

The laws aren't really all that much different no matter where you live, at least not in regard to your current situation with your custody and visitation issue. The different courts may use different terminology, and there may be wild swings in support awards and asset distribution, but a judge in any state or country, when presented with two high conflict parents, one of whom has always been the primary caregiver (and is nursing to boot), and the other, who has been assigned very limited visitation rights, will almost always keep the status quo, unless something comes up that really changes things.

 

As I've said, unless you can downright prove abuse, or neglect, or alienating behavior beyond a reasonable doubt, and unless you have unlimited funds so you can out-spend and out-litigate your soon to be exwife, then you have to accept that you are going to be nothing more than a visitor, a babysitter in your child's life, at least for the foreseeable future. Things may, and probably will change as she gets older, as long as you continue to try to stay in touch with her and visit with her to the full extent allowed by law. Because if you do what so many other fathers do, which is to give up and walk away (and in most cases it's completely understandable why they do this), then your exwife will refer to you as the deadbeat dad who took off and doesn't care about his daughter. And if that's the case you won't be around to disprove the lies and your daughter will believe it. At least until and unless she seeks you out and you can give her your perspective, possibly along with court documents that prove that you really tried but were stymied, every step of the way.

 

Well Luke ( Because she wants me gone, but it is not happening buddy )

 

She wants you gone, but WHY? The answer is, she's angry. She's angry because she sees you as the source of the failure of the marriage, even if it's not your fault. She sees no value in you as a parent, you are nothing more than an annoyance at best and a threat to her parenthood at the worst. You sir, are the symbol of everything that has gone wrong in her life, she doesn't believe your daughter needs you in her life, she believes you are an incompetent husband and parent, if you disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, she'd be good with that.

 

So keep that in mind as you figure out ways to lessen the conflict going forward. Like I said, there are books on this subject, read up, make yourself an expert on how to deal with an alienating spouse. There are strategies, that can work to some extent. Most of them deal with conflict resolution, how to work through issues with your spouse, and how to rebuild communication, cooperation and trust. She doesn't know it now, but there will be a time when she's glad you'll take your daughter off her hands so she can get out and do things with her life besides parent.

 

I am lucky to have parents who love me and also who are very well off. I am tired of being treated like a criminal by a scorn woman ( actions show it ) and I am the father and I have rights no matter what. My father had said to me ( Jim I and you need to fight this till the end now to make sure you will be able to see your daughter ) and I agree I want her to be with me and spend time outside the ex girlfriends house.

 

If you have unlimited financial resources, then you have a slim chance at turning this around. You can hire an experienced team of attorneys, custody evaluators, psychologists, etc who will testify on your behalf, and if you can successfully outspend your wife, it's possible that you could get custody. I'd put your odds at maybe 1 in 10 but hey it's something. Just know that even if you are ultimately successful, it could take years and the emotional strain is hard to even imagine.

 

You have some rights, no matter what, that's true. Unfortunately most of those rights are stripped of the fathers during divorce, and you have to fight to get some or most of them back. It doesn't just happen, the courts don't automatically give you what you know you deserve.

 

I still don't understand the whole supervised visitation thing and why you agreed in mediation to such a limited amount of visitation. You may need to change attorneys.

[22n32]

^^^ spot on Sargon !!!! excellent..

[Seraphim]

I know for certain if my father left and didn't fight for me and tried to reach out to me when I was 18 I would tell him to go pound salt. I would tell him " sorry it's too hard to have a relationship with you." After all that would be fair. Little children don't have a choice about what they get stuck with ,but grown children do.

 

I have for the most part been estranged from my father for the past 25 years ,mostly his choice. He was a craptastic father anyway. However now that he is sick and not likely to live much longer he's moaning and wailing about his kids spending time with him. **** rolls eyes*****

 

And I feel this way about someone who raised me and then ditched me. So if you don't fight for your children and they don't come to know you believe me they won't give two hoots in 18 years to even know you. I think it is the most important thing in the world to fight for your children.

[ynguns251]

It has nothing to do with me having a grudge with my ex but for crying out loud how can I love my daughter when I barely seen her in a year. I am not on Government aid and the bills I pay are for me to also be in my daughters life and yes I am getting hit hard on finances and for what? to be not able to form a relationship with my daughter whom I have been fighting for for almost a year and look where the courts and my fighting got me ( nowhere ). I think many people do not see what the heck I am trying to do and I can tell evryone on here I don't give up ( EVER ) I have good parents who are well off and they would not let me go bankrupt and I also have over $100,000 in equity if I need to tap into that but the question is why? and why? should a father have to do so to be a father. I don't want to hear people tell me that I cannot be a father especially ones who don't have children or have been in this mess. It seems that everyone feels I should walk away from this and still pay ( for the benefit of my daughter ) but think about this in the long run as a daughter needs both parents for guidance ( in my opinion ) and do you really think my ez is acting very sane? because my therapist is confused by her and so is everyone as you can see that she set me up as if she didn't a mother would never do this to a father who would want to be involved.

[ynguns251]

Another note on the subject Lukeb, Do you think a father should be able to have overnights? and especially me a professional Firefighter/Paramedic who has delivered babies in the ambulance? and if she gets 'sole custody" I am really screwed because I won't even have a say so in anything and I for one am not going to be told what is the best thing for our daughter as I would rather be asked and sit down like adults. I have never disagreed with anything she has done I even gave her money for our daughters water classes and I did not have to as the only way I knew was when the mediator basically told her to tell me about them and asked her if I could attend. I wish evryone would stop thinking I am this huge jerk trying to screw over my ex because it is not true, but I come from a family of money and I can guarantee that she is seeing how this will end up as she will sooner then later have to allow me overnights. My father has seen my daughter 1 time in almost a year and my mother seen her about 4 hrs. All of her friends and family see my daughter more then I do and why? because according to her attorney in court on Friday " Grandparents have no rights " well then the way I see it when I am with my ex and our daughter I should have the right to tell her idiot unemployed for over 15 years dad to " Back off " as you are not needed right?

[ynguns251]

Sargon I never married her and this is why she is doing this as I have explained. She always tells me that " Your suing me Jim remember? " but actually she is suing me. I filed in my state to get my name at first put on the birth certificate as I was told in the hospital from the woman who came to our room to sign a VOP and she was kinda shocked herself as to see a woman keep her last name when the father has been present and said " I have never seen this happen? " so me being the good guy that I am I want to file to get name on cert in IN as it is my home state and look where it got me. Funds I do have and if my parents who told me the other day " We want to go all out Jim " and also that they want to see me happy with my daughter and will do anything and everything to help me. Kelly has cryed to me before about the money and I explained to her that all I wanted at first was my name and go from there as I never thought I would be asked to " get out " of the birthing room by her mother on the day of our daughters birth considering I had been there from day one in all this ( Dr. visits, Parenting classes ) so wht the heck am I to do as I was basically told get me a ring now and start looking for a new house or that is it!!!! I have a beautiful house and I just don't get what her reasoning was. I swear on everything she had said in the beginning of our relationship " I would sign a contract for a child " but me being pretty vulnerable just ignored it. I can prove alienation and I can also sue her in IN as I just talked to my cousin in Indianapolis who is a criminal attorney and would represent me for free here in IN and because it is a civil case the fact that IL is handling it is for parentage and visitation however this is a civil suit and I have all the right to follow, but I am trying to just get this done and start feeling like a father and not a sperm donor. My dad said to me " She does not want you or us in your daughters life and why could she not say this from the beginning and sign a sperm donor agreement? " now I have formed a bond ( somewhat ) but she does know me and smiles around me and laughs when I tickle her and raise her in the air and no way in Hell would I give that up for a second now.

[Cheetarah]

No, not everyone thinks you should walk away. Not at all. We've always been encouraging you here. Well, the majority of us.

 

Very few people act sane when it comes to matters of children and custody. I went through a really, really hard time when my ex started to threaten me with taking my son away so I'd never see him again. And he didn't mean it, he was just as insane by trying to hit me where it hurt when the fact was, he didn't give one damn, let alone two about my son. I was running high on adrenaline 24/7 until the divorce was over. It's an awful place to be, and for that you have my sympathies and support. It IS taxing. And in truth, things didn't calm down for me until it was over. So kudos for keeping yourself together during this. You're doing better than I was.

[Seraphim]

I would definitely NEVER, tell you give up on your daughter.

[22n32]

Im not saying walk away never have, but how long can you go on feeling like this and waiting for no real results ? unless your ex has a change of heart and something in her mind changes it will stay like this and prob worse for next 5-10 and even 15yrs. can you feel like this and see her so little ?

 

sad part is if she gets a new man or youre daughter gets older she will most likely turn up the poision. making up excuses why she is running late , turning ur 4hr visit into 2hrs, and when youre daughter is home her mom will slowly feed poision about you day by day. and when you do see ur daughter she will not be herself. might be akward or no true qiality time, just a stranger who buys her stuff and baby sits her here and there. i think you need to look at the big picture here, you have been so focused on getting ur name on BC or getting few hours here and there. im sorry but those really dont mean enough. and along the way of the fight you will break down yourself in all ways, physcialy mentaly, and prob waste alot of money. it will never be right unless her mother wants it to be..

 

its sad but its reality, there comes a point in every situation and everyones life when enough is enough and cant beat a dead horse anymore. you have to try no.doubt. about that and never give up or never stop loving ur daughter, sometimes the right thing is to step back and love from the side. more ur activley fighting and pushing it when ur ex doesnt want you to more ur pushing ur self away from ur daughter. because courts give u few hrs it means nothing.. everyone is diff and has a diff breaking point and expection from what kind of rel they want with there child, i do know if my daughter is nine and she comes over and standofish from her mothers poision. and theres no quality time, its not gonna feel good either because i got to see her.

 

no one is telling u to walk away, were simple telling u the facts what u will encounter over the yrs, and never stop loving ur daughter and dociments everything. just remember sometimes more you push more they will pull and you will be even further from your daughter..

[ynguns251]

It is taxing for sure and all could be worked out but her resistance is pathetic and straight up rude. I was there for everything and went to 80% of doctor visits and took parenting classes all to be told that she did not have to even let me in birthing room if she did not want to. I don't think she agrees deep down inside with what is going on but something or someone is fueling her with bad thoughts as I remember when she asked her mom not to attend s doctor visit as it was just going to be her and I she received a text saying Jim 1 Mom 0 almost like it was a competition. It has been almost a year as the 21st is her birthday and I have basically no knowledge of raising a child and I blame this on her and also the court system as to keep a father out of the picture because of nursing a child and there were several options available ( pumps, formula ) but never considered it at all.

[ynguns251]

Very true 22n32 as much as I am trying I am getting very tired ( frustrated ) with her and the courts. I want this over with already and it is just dragging and dragging on. My father said " look we will fight till the end " but also said why does she not just sign you as a sperm donor because any normal woman would see that this is wrong on so many levels. We were advised by mediator to seek therapy for co-parenting but once again her excuses arised and she tells the mediator " I have to take care of my child " and do not have time " the mediator said " bring her with as I will be able to see her too " but her eyes rolled and the mediator just smiled. I wonder why she did not just say I was a donor if that is all I was and am to her? but it is heartwrenching to be in this with such a narcissist and I am being too nice to her my lawyer said and I need to realize that I will get nowhere with her as she is not an agreeable person.

[Seraphim]

Believe me they see her excuses as excuses.

[ynguns251]

I sure hope so Victoria. I am so scared but also excited to actually be a father. I often ask myself is there anything else I could have done but given the short time knowing her and the demands she requested I just could not make a decision to get engaged. I would have loved a family and really was hopeful but everything was always about her and her reputation and never once asked me how I feel about anything. She came to my house a total of 9 times in almost 2 years and it was always ( I am pregnant ) or she made plans with us and her friends. She always talked about her ex boyfriend and how nice he was and then bashed him for being fat and then dumped him because his stepfather overdosed on drugs and I think he was a Vietnam Vet and her ex was spending time with his mother and that got her upset and she broke it off with him. She said to me " when things dont go my way I get out " well good bye to you I said.

[Seraphim]

I feel for you, I really do. My brother right now is trying to get 50% custody of his 3 daughters.

[sargon]

It is taxing for sure and all could be worked out but her resistance is pathetic and straight up rude.

 

Well, I don't know if her resistance has been pathetic. It's been deliberate, planned, and very efficiently executed. As far as it being rude, that's irrelevant. This isn't about what's nice, or mean, or fair. It's about what your goals are and how you can go about achieving them or coming as close as you can.

 

I still don't understand how she managed to limit you to supervised visitation of only a few hours per week if there is no history of domestic violence. I've asked this question several times already and you have not answered it. Can you please elaborate on how she was able to pull this off and limit your visitation so significantly? Because it's very unusual.