Another online daing journal

[reinventmyself]

Ugh.

 

I don't know. I tried coming up with a lot of different explanations for you and him.... but I keep coming back to - he is still feeling the burrs stuck from his last relationship. And without meaning to, he's making you pay for the pain they give him. Everytime you say something that reminds him of his ex, he's going to get defensive. That's how he used to react to his ex. It's not your fault. But I think no matter what happens, you'll be constantly fearing reminding him of how his ex was. And I've dealt with that before. It's exhausting.

 

And as fair and as likely as this assessment is. . this triggers my past history as well.

So who's exercising what on whom?

[Fudgie]

I really don't like the "winning" and "losing" perspective he has when it comes to arguments. Also, is it just me, or does he seem to be a little bit sensitive? Do you feel that you need to tiptoe around certain subjects?

 

I don't know if it's just you or not but I've noticed lots of people have a winning/losing perspective when it comes to arguments. I do when it comes to things outside of a relationship. In a relationship, I just want to let things be and if I don't like something, then don't include me and let me be.

[WithLove]

Thing is.... when you're with someone where you're constantly afraid of acting like their ex acted.... you eventually start losing yourself in your conscious attempts to act the opposite of her. I did that with C. It was awful. I knew how much resentment he had for his ex, so I became obsessed with being the opposite of her. And it just exhausted me.

 

I don't think this is boding well for you, Reinvent. At only 3 months in... maybe it's a good thing that this happened now. I know he says he wants to learn from this and hear what you're saying... but how much of this is him learning how to make fighting rules, and how much of it is him still recovering from his past relationship?

[reinventmyself]

Thing is.... when you're with someone where you're constantly afraid of acting like their ex acted.... you eventually start losing yourself in your conscious attempts to act the opposite of her. I did that with C. It was awful. I knew how much resentment he had for his ex, so I became obsessed with being the opposite of her. And it just exhausted me.

 

I don't think this is boding well for you, Reinvent. At only 3 months in... maybe it's a good thing that this happened now. I know he says he wants to learn from this and hear what you're saying... but how much of this is him learning how to make fighting rules, and how much of it is him still recovering from his past relationship?

 

I gave up a long time ago thinking I can teach grown men how to relate. After all I have raised two sons.

I supervise young people at work. I keep finding myself in the position to have to parent them, but I don't.

(tho my boss would think otherwise)

I flat out do not raise adults.

 

And yes Fudgie, it's more common than not to run into people who have a win/lose mentality when it comes to conflicts.

And yes again, he's pretty sensitive. That's a blessing and a curse at the same time.

 

So what do I do? Stay on my driveway for the rest of my life?

Go into to dating with a list reading requirements for all potential suitors?

Maybe I have it all wrong.

 

And I did tell him straight up. .that I will not be in a relationship where I have to sensor myself.

I think I am mature enough to know the difference and when in doubt we both deserve the benefit of doubt.

[Fudgie]

I am like you, I can't be with someone who I have to "censor" myself with in a relationship. Outside of obvious things of course, and I am not a verbally abusive person to my loved ones, but I don't like people who can't talk about x, y, z without getting offended or can't take a joke. My ex N was a little like that. I had a "list" of things that I wasn't allowed to bring up or do in front of him, like watch certain TV shows when he was near, not because he disliked them, but because they "triggered" something in him and he would blow up at me. He hated when I watched shows like The Bachelor because he thought I was having romantic fantasies about the guy on there.

 

At this point in my life, I won't even be friends with someone who is excessively "emotionally trigger-y". I have better things to do with my time than to tip toe slowly around someone because they can't deal with life and will get offended/upset over everything. It's just not for me. I think trigger-y people do well with other trigger-y people so they can tip toe around each other and get offended together so the rest of us sane people can be left in peace.

 

I don't really have any advice for you other than I think it's good that you told him straight up. If he has a problem with you or something that you've said, he needs to bring it up and you'll deal with it then. Don't let him passively aggressively bring things up that are old and dealt with to make you feel bad/guilty. That is utter crap. If that happens, be direct and draw the line in the sand.

[Silverbirch]

Hey Reinventmyself. I've seen your photo nod you are gorgeous. You seem like a very nice person,and I think too nice for this. I think you should just "cut him loose". Enjoy being single and all the good things that go with it. A lot of the time it's possible to give a clear message without saying a lot. I don't like flirty sexy messages a lot myself and I just don't reply to them.

 

I'm sorry you aren't feeling great right now.

[reinventmyself]

He had an issue with his best friend kissing his last girlfriend on the lips when greeting her. S mentioned to him to cool it, but it continued. S mentioned it to the gf but it continued. This is a sensitive past history stuff of his that I said I understood it probably wasn't about the kiss but it was probably more about two people close to him who seemed to dismiss how he felt about something.

 

I have met the best friend a couple times and the last greeting he and his wife hugged me hello and the husband gave me a peck on the lips. I didn't think much of it at the time but what I didn't notice. . (that S shared with me later) is that both S and the friend. (I'll call him J) immediately went outside. According to J, he immediately apologized and placed the blame on me.

 

When S was sharing this story with me weeks later I could feel growing anger but I sat composed and listened. When he was done, I didn't want to be like J and throw someone under the bus, after all these are all new people to me and I don't want to add fuel to fire.

I calmly stated that I barely remembered the moment, it seemed spontaneous and innocent but assured him it's definitely not how I greet men (alluding the what I thought was the obvious but sorry, but J is the common denominator here!!) But it's not like I stopped him either. . so there.

 

I was biting my lip to not say what I really wanted to say. It all seemed childish and past history bs that I didn't appreciate being pulled into. Add in J who I barely know, didn't hesitate to finger point to save his butt.(according to S) . At some point I squashed the conversation because I was getting angry and said `If this conversation goes any further I might feel you are challenging my integrity and I am about to get angry"

Not sure who I was more angry with, S or J.

 

This was the where he said I didn't apologize. . but Ahhh. . his best friend had.

But what he forgot was that I understood how that must have felt for him all things considered.

When we revisited this Friday night. .I said I couldn't possibly have this conversation again without saying something accusatory about J. . but I didn't want to go there. .like J so easily did. So in the end I guess I did indirectly anyway.

Angered and feeling childish for having to talk about this . .again.

. .whatever!

[reinventmyself]

Hey Reinventmyself. I've seen your photo nod you are gorgeous. You seem like a very nice person,and I think too nice for this. I think you should just "cut him loose". Enjoy being single and all the good things that go with it. A lot of the time it's possible to give a clear message without saying a lot. I don't like flirty sexy messages a lot myself and I just don't reply to them.

 

I'm sorry you aren't feeling great right now.

Aww thankyou Silverbirch,

I follow your journal and so admire your outlook.

You give me a lot to think about.

[notalady]

I gave up a long time ago thinking I can teach grown men how to relate. After all I have raised two sons.

I supervise young people at work. I keep finding myself in the position to have to parent them, but I don't.

(tho my boss would think otherwise)

I flat out do not raise adults.

 

And yes Fudgie, it's more common than not to run into people who have a win/lose mentality when it comes to conflicts.

And yes again, he's pretty sensitive. That's a blessing and a curse at the same time.

 

So what do I do? Stay on my driveway for the rest of my life?

Go into to dating with a list reading requirements for all potential suitors?

Maybe I have it all wrong.

 

And I did tell him straight up. .that I will not be in a relationship where I have to sensor myself.

I think I am mature enough to know the difference and when in doubt we both deserve the benefit of doubt.

 

Reinvent, my ex C and I (2.5 years relationship) used to have these types of arguments, where something I said or my tone apparently was offensive to him and he'd react to it (even though no one ever, friends, family, past and current boyfriends had ever been offended by me because of these kind of things so I knew it wasn't me), we'd talk about it and I would say something that I'm sorry that what I said made him feel that way and that I get it and will be more mindful in the future. And he would apologise for his reaction. That was the dynamic of the whole relationship. In one of our final arguments close to break up time, I said something similar to that and he thought that wasn't enough, he said I never just apologise, and that I always say it in this roundabout way with other prefacing statements, and ended with "just say it", so to regain peace, I forced myself to say I'm sorry even though I felt that I've done nothing wrong.

 

I'm the same as Fudgie, since that relationship I made up my mind that I will never date a guy around whom I have to sensor what I say (other than the obvious stuff like don't be disrepecful or rude). And reinvent, I also learned that being sensitive is not a good thing. It is not to be confused with being considerate and thoughtful of others. I also used to think that people who are sensitive is good, because they'd be sensitive to other people's feelings. That's not so at all. Many times people who are too sensitive are just self involved and focussed on how others make them feel rather than the other way round. J is the most considerate and thoughtful boyfriend I've ever had and he is also the least sensitive when it comes to his own feelings (i.e. Being easy going and doesn't take much to heart). I think the difference in being sensitive about self vs being sensitive about others but not self, is that the latter comes from a big heart, the first comes from a narrow one.

 

As for his winning and losing mentality and his comment about rolling over, I agree with WL, he's clearly still perpetuating the dynamics of the last relationship and react to you as if he would have to his ex. It reminds me a lot of Z, who used to often say stuff like that, well not in those words but he put words in my mouth (sometimes in a joking way like S did here), as if he was assigning someone else's personality to me, I could see that was clearly his last relationship's dynamic and he was making me into his ex. It made me angry, because that was not me at all and those were never things I would say or think, why was he making me into someone else?!

 

Anyway sorry for a long post reinvent, and I'm not saying you should break up with him now, but I really don't see this working out. When issues (in this case communication issues) arise within the first 3-4 months, it's worth taking extra note and understand that it is likely to stay, then consider if you can live with that.

[reinventmyself]

I think the difference in being sensitive about self vs being sensitive about others but not self, is that the latter comes from a big heart, the first comes from a narrow one.

 

As for his winning and losing mentality and his comment about rolling over, I agree with WL, he's clearly still perpetuating the dynamics of the last relationship and react to you as if he would have to his ex. It reminds me a lot of Z, who used to often say stuff like that, well not in those words but he put words in my mouth (sometimes in a joking way like S did here), as if he was assigning someone else's personality to me, I could see that was clearly his last relationship's dynamic and he was making me into his ex. It made me angry, because that was not me at all and those were never things I would say or think, why was he making me into someone else?!

 

.

 

Thank you NL.

I love your first comment that I highlighted.

 

Your last comment got me thinking of how derailed the conversation went that each time I said something, he would hear something else and reflect it back to me.

 

I wish I had a dollar for every conversation with a significant other that ultimately played out like this one did.

 

I told him I can only speak from my heart and I have no control over what he hears and from where I was sitting the two weren't even remotely close.. .

sigh. .

[notalady]

He had an issue with his best friend kissing his last girlfriend on the lips when greeting her. S mentioned to him to cool it, but it continued. S mentioned it to the gf but it continued. This is a sensitive past history stuff of his that I said I understood it probably wasn't about the kiss but it was probably more about two people close to him who seemed to dismiss how he felt about something.

 

I have met the best friend a couple times and the last greeting he and his wife hugged me hello and the husband gave me a peck on the lips. I didn't think much of it at the time but what I didn't notice. . (that S shared with me later) is that both S and the friend. (I'll call him J) immediately went outside. According to J, he immediately apologized and placed the blame on me.

 

When S was sharing this story with me weeks later I could feel growing anger but I sat composed and listened. When he was done, I didn't want to be like J and throw someone under the bus, after all these are all new people to me and I don't want to add fuel to fire.

I calmly stated that I barely remembered the moment, it seemed spontaneous and innocent but assured him it's definitely not how I greet men (alluding the what I thought was the obvious but sorry, but J is the common denominator here!!) But it's not like I stopped him either. . so there.

 

I was biting my lip to not say what I really wanted to say. It all seemed childish and past history bs that I didn't appreciate being pulled into. Add in J who I barely know, didn't hesitate to finger point to save his butt.(according to S) . At some point I squashed the conversation because I was getting angry and said `If this conversation goes any further I might feel you are challenging my integrity and I am about to get angry"

Not sure who I was more angry with, S or J.

 

This was the where he said I didn't apologize. . but Ahhh. . his best friend had.

But what he forgot was that I understood how that must have felt for him all things considered.

When we revisited this Friday night. .I said I couldn't possibly have this conversation again without saying something accusatory about J. . but I didn't want to go there. .like J so easily did. So in the end I guess I did indirectly anyway.

Angered and feeling childish for having to talk about this . .again.

. .whatever!

 

Huh? Sorry that's just ridiculous. He IS questioning your integrity. Just because his friend greeted you that way and you didn't get offended (either didn't notice or wanted to be polite), what, that means you WANTED it or initiated it? To put it very crudely, it's like accusing a rape victim who lied there and took it, because they didn't fight it, that must mean they wanted it, and this woman better apologise to her partner because she had sex with someone else didn't she?! Of course not the same situation but same argument.

 

I would've said, I don't greet men or anyone that way and your friend J does on a regular basis, clearly. If you don't like it, feel free to tell HIM to stop it. Case closed. What more need to be said? I don't even see a need to be empathetic or apologise or even discuss any further in this case.

[notalady]

Thank you NL.

I love your first comment that I highlighted.

 

Your last comment got me thinking of how derailed the conversation went that each time I said something, he would hear something else and reflect it back to me.

 

I wish I had a dollar for every conversation with a significant other that ultimately played out like this one did.

 

I told him I can only speak from my heart and I have no control over what he hears and from where I was sitting the two weren't even remotely close.. .

sigh. .

 

I think many people who had long term relationships would end up with these kind of baggages (explains why you keep finding these men), I think it takes a lot of self reflection and willingness to learn from one's own mistakes to let go of those baggages (or not have baggages in the first place). A lot of people aren't capable of doing that, all they want to do is blame the other person for the relationship failing.

 

I think that you do a lot of self reflection and learn from your past experiences and you shouldn't give up on finding a man who is capable of looking at themselves rather than just pointing fingers at others.

[reinventmyself]

I think many people who had long term relationships would end up with these kind of baggages (explains why you keep finding these men), I think it takes a lot of self reflection and willingness to learn from one's own mistakes to let go of those baggages (or not have baggages in the first place). A lot of people aren't capable of doing that, all they want to do is blame the other person for the relationship failing.

 

I think that you do a lot of self reflection and learn from your past experiences and you shouldn't give up on finding a man who is capable of looking at themselves rather than just pointing fingers at others.

 

give up is the operative word here. .

 

. . .cranky, tired and coming down with a cold doesn't help my attitude much either.

[notalady]

give up is the operative word here. .

 

. . .cranky, tired and coming down with a cold doesn't help my attitude much either.

 

I think you deserve some down time! Rest up and spoil yourself doing something you enjoy!

[faraday]

Some people don't get that...in relationships you can "win" or you can be happy. There are times when things don't get fully resolved...it's an agreement to disagree....for the health of the relationship.

 

I've been in a lot of relationships where there was "winning" and "losing"...jay taught me that there's no such thing...and he's shown me how to let things be gracefully, instead of feeling like things are hanging eta- and that someone needs to get the last word in. Silence and a hug feel better than the last word. I didn't know that before him!

[Fudgie]

I am confused - why is S offended that his friend greets people (you) by a peck on the lips? Isn't he aware that for people in certain countries this may be considered a warm and customary greeting between a man and a woman, regardless if they are dating or not? I don't greet people that way and I'll be honest, being American with my huuuuuge personal bubble space, I feel uncomfortable when men have greeted me this way (in a gathering setting, and it's how they and their family members greet people) but I smile and bear it because it's not a big deal, just different.

 

He should NOT be blaming you or anyone for that. You were being greeted. If you are uncomfortable, it's on you to speak up but you shouldn't have to do that either if you're okay with it. It's just a greeting that is not the norm in the US.

 

Sorry, I am sensitive on this topic. N used to get angry at me if men flirted with me. AT ME. Like it was my fault, even though he could see the whole interaction and see that I was not receptive and walked away.

 

I get so angry when I hear about people blaming others for things that are out of their control entirely.

[Silverbirch]

You know, I think the real issue is between S and his best friend. He's spoken with his friend about it, and I think his fiend is playing a competive mind game with him. Personally, I don't think you should allow yourself to get dragged into any of it. I like the term "cut loose". You are giving the other person the opportunity to go or stay, but if they want your attention and affections, they need to behave in a way whereby you will want to be around them. I'm no expert on men's relationships with each other, but despite what most of them say, they can be more complicated than their relationships with women.

 

Thanks for your nice words about my journal. I often think that other people don't read it or especially of late that they don't approve.

[reinventmyself]

Some people don't get that...in relationships you can "win" or you can be happy. There are times when things don't get fully resolved...it's an agreement to disagree....for the health of the relationship.

 

I've been in a lot of relationships where there was "winning" and "losing"...jay taught me that there's no such thing...and he's shown me how to let things be gracefully, instead of feeling like things are hanging eta- and that someone needs to get the last word in. Silence and a hug feel better than the last word. I didn't know that before him!

I had to read it or have it explained to me, but there are often times that it isn't right or wrong, but just a differece. It's about respecting differences and understanding how it might have felt for the other person. I don't have to agree with it, it's just my place to empathize with the other person.

 

I get not everyone gets this. I didn't always but there are some people who are absolutely void of empathy. I know I can't be in a relationship with someone without it. (Tried it and failed twice)

 

I shared this with S and used our discussions as a tool. There I go swearing I won't teach adults squat but activity doing so I guess.

Or, maybe not so much. Just explaining to him where I'm at. Either he gets or he doesn't remains to be seen.

[notalady]

I had to read it or have it explained to me, but there are often times that it isn't right or wrong, but just a differece. It's about respecting differences and understanding how it might have felt fir the other person. I don't have to agree with it, it's just my place to empathize with the other person.

 

I get not everyone gets this. I didn't always but there are some people who are absolutely void of empathy. I know I can't be in a relationship with someone without it. (Tried it and failed twice)

 

I shared this with S and used our discussions as a tool. There I go swearing I won't teach adults squat but activity doing so I guess.

Or, maybe not so much. Just explaining to him where I'm at. Either he gets or he doesn't remains to be seen.

 

I think it's perfectly fine that you share this view with him and I don't see it as teaching him anything, he either gets it or don't, and agree or don't, I don't think you can teach adults how to behave or what they believe in.

[reinventmyself]

I am confused - why is S offended that his friend greets people (you) by a peck on the lips? Isn't he aware that for people in certain countries this may be considered a warm and customary greeting between a man and a woman, regardless if they are dating or not? I don't greet people that way and I'll be honest, being American with my huuuuuge personal bubble space, I feel uncomfortable when men have greeted me this way (in a gathering setting, and it's how they and their family members greet people) but I smile and bear it because it's not a big deal, just different.

 

He should NOT be blaming you or anyone for that. You were being greeted. If you are uncomfortable, it's on you to speak up but you shouldn't have to do that either if you're okay with it. It's just a greeting that is not the norm in the US.

 

Sorry, I am sensitive on this topic. N used to get angry at me if men flirted with me. AT ME. Like it was my fault, even though he could see the whole interaction and see that I was not receptive and walked away.

 

I get so angry when I hear about people blaming others for things that are out of their control entirely.

 

I don't think it was so much the act of greeting someone with a peck on the lips.

What I was hearing was that he had asked both the friend and gf to avoid doing something that made him uncomfortable on more than one occasion and then continued to do it.

I get that that might bother him and told him so.

Doesn't change the fact that I didn't know the history and didn't appreciate being thrown in middle.

[reinventmyself]

Here I go.

Boy, this is such a pattern for me.

S wants to come over tonight. He also wants me to come to his home Friday night thru Sunday, coming back to my home on with him on Sunday.

This is what I signed up for, right?

I am already feeling like I want to back out or slow down or put upon.

I love the beginning of a relationship, the honeymoon and high. This is not easy to admit. But now, especially after a disagreement and the honeymoon high is broken I feel myself back peddling.

I am that text book push/pull person that people get really frustrated with.

All these years of me wondering what was wrong with my partners. .ok, they had their `stuff' but this is mine.

I keep thinking `If I met the right guy, then. . ."

It dictates my choices in partners and I am predisposed for the same outcome. .

frustrating. . and too late to change. . and not for the lack of trying.

[WithLove]

Maybe you're having too many 3 day weekends. Maybe seeing each other once or twice a week instead would be better for you.

[reinventmyself]

Maybe you're having too many 3 day weekends. Maybe seeing each other once or twice a week instead would be better for you.

 

Better for me. . but not for the other person.

When I first meet someone I try to size up their time needs to make sure it's in alignment with mine.

What they say in the beginning typically doesn't match what they actually want in the end.

[WithLove]

He is the one that wants to spend more time with you?

 

Spending every weekend with each other can be exhausting. What about overnights during the week? Is that a possibility? And do overnights on 2 weekends a month?

 

There's got to be a way to compromise. You seem like you're feeling a little suffocated.

[IAmFCA]

Better for me. . but not for the other person.

When I first meet someone I try to size up their time needs to make sure it's in alignment with mine.

What they say in the beginning typically doesn't match what they actually want in the end.

 

When I have a reaction that sounds like yours in the prior post, reacting to his asks of your time, my impulse is to have a strong counter -- The answer is almost always my NEXT idea, which is to reply in moderation, in a way that still meets my goal.

 

"I'd love to see you but tonight's not good for me; I might not be very good company. I would love to spend the weekend with you though. That sounds lovely."

 

Or, "Tonight is perfect! This weekend, I have a whole day's worth of errands and the like. How about if I bring myself out to your house (even better if by Uber/RideShare/Bus...) on Saturday afternoon?"

 

If we agree then they never adjust.