Why do women hold all the cards when it comes guys asking them out?

[Blue Spiral]

I guess this has become the monthly 'gender divide meeting.' These threads tend to pop up periodically. This may sound a bit cold but I think that men today don't realize that their victim like attitude on this subject would have been less tolerated 60 to 100 years ago.

 

There is this fantasy that women today have ruined men's chances for love. But in tougher times when life was physically tougher a man had to work harder to woo a woman he would marry. If one goes far back enough men had to duel and fight for women. There was a tremendous amount of competition.

 

The very men who feel like victims in this post modern era would not only not get the girl they would have a hard time surviving in general.

 

You're absolutely right--I wouldn't want to live back then, and most modern women wouldn't want to, either. I like living now. I'm not opposed to the progress we've made, I just think there should be more cultural balance (and consideration for men as human beings).

 

The way it seems to work is

 

Any man a woman chooses to date = Bad Boy/Jerk

 

Any woman who chooses not to date you = Shallow/stuck up/materialist/etc.

 

 

It seems to me that women, as they are huma (shocking I know) have a wide range in what they want and are looking for. Therefore, if you are having trouble dating the common denominator is YOU. Take a look at yourself and the kind of people you are going after.

 

Sadly as women are FINALLY getting some control in their dating lives more men are lamenting the days when they were just given a woman to use as they wished.

 

Some men are, yes. On the other hand, some of us just want more of a compromise. Granted, I don't realistically expect to get it anytime soon, which is why I (and an increasing number of men like me) are giving on the whole "relationship" thing.

 

Today, both genders have options and are not required to remain in roles. Men don't have to necessarily carry the burden of paying for all dates. They don't have to be vetted by the woman's family. They don't necessarily have to have a promising financial future in many cases. There are not restricted or limited dress codes that would make one more acceptable... I could go on and on.

 

I'm one of those non-traditional men. I don't pursue, I'm pretty sensitive, god knows I don't have a "promising financial future," I've never done stereotypically-masculine things...and yet, women aren't lining up outside my door. They're still going for the more traditional, macho guys, albeit ones that are slightly modernized (or they've rationalized themselves into thinking that they are).

 

Women have two legit options to choose from, in terms of cultural roles. At this point, men barely have one and a half.

[John John]

The implication is there, men are frustrated with women having control over their dating lives. The question because WHY. The answer is because it makes it harder for men. So, what would make things easier? Going back to when women were just handed over from their fathers. Why men today may not consiously have these thoughts, the way that the men here talk about their frustration implies that they would prefer this passive role for women.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that men should really think about WHY they are frustrated instead of just blaming women for daring to have some control in her their own lives.

 

See, I disgree given what I have seen here and in my own life. Women want to be treated as equals and with respect.

 

Right...but maybe you haven't noticed that this isn't enough for many women. That's why you'll see many men on here complaining that women only like "bad boys."

 

I don't think you quite get it. You're trying to make it that men don't like female empowerment. I personally am all for it. I dated a super-liberal feminist for 5 years, and I liked that she was independent in many ways. She paid for our first date, and made all the first moves on me! And she NEVER cooked for me once!! lol. All I was saying is that female empowerment, while great (and necessary), does it make dating more difficult for men. I don't think men as a whole don't want women to have control over their lives. No one wants to date a slave. I think men are just frustrated because women can be ultra-picky, and it can suck when the guy knows that he has a lot going for him, but still isn't getting the women that he wants. And it's perfectly normal to feel this way.

 

I have never bought into the notion that "money/status can get you women." While this may be true, I wouldn't never want a woman who was with me only because of my money. All I was trying to describe is that men sometimes have a difficult time ascertaining what roles he has to play or not relative to how liberal the woman is.

 

While I've got this in my own perspective and I have my own dating strategy that works for me, I don't know if women realize how much pressure is on men these days. I wonder if that's why the average life expectancy of men is a few years shorter

[Firiel]

I guess I just don't see women being ultra-picky. I can't think of one female friend who has had unlimited choices in men or been able to date "out of her league," so to say. I'm thinking of my coupled friends, and they are all with people in a similar "category" as they are, in regards to looks and accomplishments.

 

I also want to add that I don't typically see men being ultra-picky either, though I know two guys who are quite unattractive who insist on dating very attractive women. As far as I know, their process involves throwing out a HUGE net and being okay with getting a TON of rejections in the process. They are the rarity, though, and most men that I know are paired up with women on a similar "level" as they are.

[faraday]

There are rarely situations that a situation is all or nothing...and when you do find that it is all or nothing...you need to determine if you are the common denominator in your experiences. Keep in mind that people who have similar experiences in life/dating/friendships/whatever are going to find people like them...so don't always look in your immediate circle to determine if you're the common denominator...look outside it.

 

I will say, I dated a guy when I was 20 that...I kind of wonder if you're him. Did you live in Canada with a girl that painted everything, 11 years ago? Probably not, I still know him...and he has a rougher time in dating...sensitive people do...but he dates....and has meaningful connections. And he's 35 and doesn't have his s*it together even remotely. Honestly, if he can date...anyone can. But...he puts himself out there. He goes to events (often times alone) and makes conversation with people...and he has a ton of superficial friendships (because he won't allow himself to fully connect- it's not "safe")....but he is rarely single, he has long term relationships...So...I don't know what to tell you. He's the only really sensitive person that refuses to conform that I know well. *shrugs* He seems to do okay though.

[faraday]

I wonder if that's why the average life expectancy of men is a few years shorter Yes, it's because we slowly suck the life force out of them, growing stronger every day.

 

....I eat men like you for breakfast...

 

You're funny

[John John]

Yes, it's because we slowly suck the life force out of them, growing stronger every day.

 

....I eat men like you for breakfast...

 

You're funny

 

Funny...I have had several older women (you're a year older than me faraday - got ya!!! lol) tell me that they "eat guys like me for breakfast."

 

I don't mind it one bit!

[mhowe]

I must be doing something wrong....I just have Cheerios

[John John]

I must be doing something wrong....I just have Cheerios

 

You just made me almost spit out my lunch mhowe!!! hahahaha!!!

[Moontiger]

They do have an answer for why the average length of life for men is shorted. There are two reasons 1) Men tend to engage in more risky behavior, especially when young, (driving to fast, hunting, mountain climbing etc) and this of course can lead to early death. 2) Men tend to not go to the doctor as often as women do.

 

 

Oh, yes, and women suck out men's souls to make them our eternal slaves.

[faraday]

Funny...I have had several older women (you're a year older than me faraday - got ya!!! lol) tell me that they "eat guys like me for breakfast."

 

I don't mind it one bit!

Fine, if I'm old enough to be called "older", I'm going to lovingly refer to you as "kid" from now on. Or pumpkin. Or squirt.

 

Yup.

 

That'll learn ya

[John John]

They do have an answer for why the average length of life for men is shorted. There are two reasons 1) Men tend to engage in more risky behavior, especially when young, (driving to fast, hunting, mountain climbing etc) and this of course can lead to early death. 2) Men tend to not go to the doctor as often as women do.

 

 

Oh, yes, and women suck out men's souls to make them our eternal slaves.

 

 

Sigh...I was only joking with the male vs female life expectancy comment

 

As I've said before, both men and women have a rough time in finding the one. I was just trying to explain how part of some mens' difficulty can be ascribed to having to navigate through women who may lie anywhere on the feminism spectrum. It can be difficult as a guy to know (i.e. be confident in oneself) that you have a lot going for you, yet still struggle to find someone around your "level."

 

But dating ain't a cakewalk for either sex, that's for damn sure

[mhowe]

Fine, if I'm old enough to be called "older", I'm going to lovingly refer to you as "kid" from now on. Or pumpkin. Or squirt.

 

Yup.

 

That'll learn ya

 

I vote for "pumpkin".

[mhowe]

 

Oh, yes, and women suck out men's souls to make them our eternal slaves.

 

That does it ---- I am switching to men's souls for breakfast

 

(Does anyone know how many calories that would entail?)

[John John]

I vote for "pumpkin".

 

Wow...now all you women are turning this around and giving men corny nicknames? This is againt my desired manly gender role...GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!! Only men are allowed to give women nicknames, I tells you!!!!!

 

Nah it's all good. I'm actually pretty liberal with this stuff. Ya'll can call me pumpkin. Just for this month, though

[Moontiger]

That does it ---- I am switching to men's souls for breakfast

 

(Does anyone know how many calories that would entail?)

 

Roughly 200 calories per soul but it varies depending on the variety you choose. I prefere mediterranean men-souls.

[John John]

Roughly 200 calories per soul but it varies depending on the variety you choose. I prefere mediterranean men-souls.

 

Mediterranean men-souls are high in sodium and carbs. So beware. As a mediterranean guy myself, I would know.

[happpybear]

I questioned whether I should even read this man vs women thread, for fear that my head might explode, but I'm glad I did because it made me laugh in the end. Good stuff guys!

[bulletproof]

Women being publicly, vocally negative about certain aspects of men and gender relations = a legitimate, mostly accepted ideology and belief-system, one that's a major factor in culture and politics.

 

Men being publicly, vocally negative about certain aspects of women and gender relations = shamed and used as a way to blame men for issues beyond their control.

 

I say again, it's funny how that works.

 

Feel free to go through every single one of my posts here and you will see that I tell women and men the same thing. Consistently being negative and acting like a victim works for nobody, male or female, in my opinion. I reply to the individual and the issue, not the gender. Nor do I think that stirring up an "us vs. them" debate is helpful to the poster or any other member looking for support.

 

And I think you are confusing "socially accepted ideology" and "mass media stereotype."

[reinventmyself]

I get what you're saying and from a man's perspective dating must be challenging.

I find it interesting when men say `women hold all the cards' because as a woman, along with my women friends, we for the most part can say the same about men.

I guess it's just what gender line you fall in.

 

I don't think one has an advantage over the other, honestly.

It's all how you choose to personally approach it.

 

Just for arguments sake. . .a woman could have easily written your post (with the exception for trucks&hunting)

[faraday]

I get what you're saying and from a man's perspective dating must be challenging.

I find it interesting when men say `women hold all the cards' because as a woman, along with my women friends, we for the most part can say the same about men.

I guess it's just what gender line you fall in.

 

I don't think one has an advantage over the other, honestly.

It's all how you choose to personally approach it.

 

Just for arguments sake. . .a woman could have easily written your post (with the exception for trucks&hunting)

 

Ha!

 

Instead of trucks and hunting it's "beautiful with no makeup, hairless and fit while making no effort at all towards it." Cause all that stuff is no maintenance. Especially over 30

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[faraday]

Feel free to go through every single one of my posts here and you will see that I tell women and men the same thing. Consistently being negative and acting like a victim works for nobody, male or female, in my opinion. I reply to the individual and the issue, not the gender. Nor do I think that stirring up an "us vs. them" debate is helpful to the poster or any other member looking for support.

 

And I think you are confusing "socially accepted ideology" and "mass media stereotype."

 

And you get a gold star!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Blue Spiral]

Where? Lol I haven't met one in real life

 

It's a very small percentage, I admit--but it's growing. Look at the number of men that "won't grow up" (i.e. won't get into serious relationships), the number of men that are only in it for the sex, and so on. We're still in the "first they ignore you" stage, slowly transitioning to the "and then they laugh at you" stage. We were being ignored anyway, so it's going to take a while for anyone to notice that we're gone.

 

I will say, I dated a guy when I was 20 that...I kind of wonder if you're him. Did you live in Canada with a girl that painted everything, 11 years ago? Probably not, I still know him...and he has a rougher time in dating...sensitive people do...but he dates....and has meaningful connections. And he's 35 and doesn't have his s*it together even remotely. Honestly, if he can date...anyone can. But...he puts himself out there. He goes to events (often times alone) and makes conversation with people...and he has a ton of superficial friendships (because he won't allow himself to fully connect- it's not "safe")....but he is rarely single, he has long term relationships...So...I don't know what to tell you. He's the only really sensitive person that refuses to conform that I know well. *shrugs* He seems to do okay though.

 

I'd argue that America is a bit different from Canada. That said, no, I'm not him. (I did have a Canadian love-interest about fifteen years ago, though.) I've been single for the vast majority of my adult life, and I've never dated, nor asked anyone out on a date.

[Blue Spiral]

Feel free to go through every single one of my posts here and you will see that I tell women and men the same thing. Consistently being negative and acting like a victim works for nobody, male or female, in my opinion. I reply to the individual and the issue, not the gender. Nor do I think that stirring up an "us vs. them" debate is helpful to the poster or any other member looking for support.

 

If the status quo were working in my favor, I'd say the exact same thing.

[John John]

Feel free to go through every single one of my posts here and you will see that I tell women and men the same thing. Consistently being negative and acting like a victim works for nobody, male or female, in my opinion. I reply to the individual and the issue, not the gender. Nor do I think that stirring up an "us vs. them" debate is helpful to the poster or any other member looking for support.

 

And I think you are confusing "socially accepted ideology" and "mass media stereotype."

 

 

Exactly this. I am far from a misogynist or women hater...I LOVE women. However, I do believe that they have it a little easier (in some ways), on average (and I won't get into why I believe this, I just do, and it's something I accept as reality for the most part). Nevertheless, I have learned to adapt my behavior and my package (and I'm still working on upgrading myself) so as to still do well in the dating battlefield. This also includes simply not showing any interest in women who I know would never be interested in me.

 

And while it can be annoying at times, there's no point in being bitter about it, because like we all know, whether you're a man or a woman, bitterness is an instant turnoff. You just have to roll with the punches and evolve along with the times. Be willing to put in the hard work.

[mhowe]

How does one upgrade his "package"????!!!!!! I gots to know!