Girl in my class driving me crazy

[Moontiger]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm in a tricky situation and wanted to get outside opinions on how to handle it. As of now I have a game-plan but maybe someone here has a better idea.

 

I was accepted into a VERY good graduate program in my field. Its tough but I'm having a great time and over-all am loving the experience. I have a great roommate, I'm doing well in my classes (As and Bs!), getting to work on some great projects, there are of course frustration and stress but that's to be expected in grad school. The issues is one girl in my program (there is a grand total of 11 people in the program). I'll call her Emma.

 

Without going into to much detail and long winded stories, she seems incapable of doing her own work. What I mean by this is everyone in the class has recently discovered that she has been asking four to five people to read over each of her assignments before she turns them in. She will asked a ton of questions to the point its like we have done the assignment for her because after asking four people she basically has been given the answers. She went through a phase of crying every five minuets and then became what I would call depressed (wasn't eating, hardly slept, stop showering) We were all so worried about her several of us spoke with one of the professors about it.

 

I've started to distance myself because I do not have the time to hold anyone's hand through this. But with so few people in the program I also do not want things to get weird. I've avoided group study sessions with her (I went to one once, we spent the whole time going over what she was confused about and nothing else), and the other day she asked me to look over something for her and I told her no. She wasn't upset with me, but again, I don't want things to get weird.

 

So how do I handle this? Just say no whenever she asks for help?

[Fudgie]

Yikes, she sounds like a hot mess. Okay, first of all, I think it's okay to decline to read over her assignments. You can cite time issues, like you're too busy, or that you're currently working on something else right now, etc. It's not fair of her to be dumping this on other people. If she needs help, she needs to talk to a professor. You have done your part in alerting one about her issues.

 

It won't get weird unless you get close to her. I would be friendly to her but do not do any work for her. Not even once. She will learn quickly that you're not doing it for her and move onto someone else. It may be helpful to form closer bonds with other people do you can form your own little study groups that don't involve her.

 

I have a feeling that she won't be making it through the program so I honestly don't feel like you'll have to be putting up with this for long.

 

Congrats on grad school!!!

[Moontiger]

Thanks Fudgie!

 

Ya, I sort of think the only reason she has gotten this far is because of all the help she has gotten. Which really pisses me off when she gets better grades than me. I actually mentioned all the help she has been getting to the professor. I just think she should be aware that when I get a B- I earn that B- but when Emma gets an A is doesn't really earn that A.

 

Ya, when she asks me question now I just give one word answers. The other day she asked someone a really stupid question, were had to write a short essay on a particular piece of architecture and she asked this other person, "Is it X style?" now this is a style we have been studying all year, so literally all you have to do is look at the building and see if it has certain features. I could not help myself, I jumped in and said, "Does it have the feature of X style?" She then started listing the features and then look at me to see if I would confirm it. I just said, "If you can make the argument you're fine."

[Fudgie]

She's a dimwit. You started your program in the fall, right? I have a feeling your other classmates will fall in line with you and get sick of her freeloading. You're doing the right thing.

 

Her "A" in whatever class won't count for much after she flunks out when people stop helping her and she is expecting to do work on her own.

[Moontiger]

What's even better is there is a huge project we are working on through the spring. We have been divided into teams with different function, guess who's on my team??? Luckily two other intelligent women are on my team and we have already talked about how to handle her. Basically if she struggles we are going to go to the professor running the project and make it clear Emma is not pulling her own weight.

[Moontiger]

I've already got a phone call and two texts from her asking if she can ask a "quick question". I'm ignoring her.

[Fudgie]

Smart move. If she asks you in person, just say you're busy or working on something else right now. I don't get the feeling that she will be confrontational, just desperate, so if you don't give her what she wants, she'll go elsewhere.

[luminousone]

Moon- I love how you handled it by asking her questions about the features. That way you are helping her by requiring her to think. Too bad the other classmates don't do that.

 

I say- have some compassion for her as she is clearly in over her head. The profs will figure that out when exam time comes around, because she won't be able to ask anyone questions.

 

I am NOT saying you should do the work for her, but at least be cordial and compassionate. Because it is only a matter of time before she fails, if she is in over her head so much.

 

I have a friend going through the very same thing. She has decided that she will meet with the needy student once every two weeks ONLY and has set boundaries with that student beyond that.

 

She realized that explaining some of the "dumb" questions to her classmate has helped her to better remember the material and to clarify things for herself.

 

She told the classmate that she has a lot on her plate, so she only has time to study with her twice a month. That seems to have worked for now, so my friend is able to honor her own studies and her own self.

 

Please don't ostracize her- she likely realizes she is in way over her head and at some point she will either have to make a decision or the universe will decide for her.

[Moontiger]

I've been through depression before so I really sympathize with her. But again, I cannot hold anyone's hand through this. To give more context, Emma has a really hard time being alone. She became really close with another person in the program and he has started lying to her about where he is so he can get time to himself. If he doesn't she will spend, literally, 2pm - midnight at his place. When he does this Emma will call me and my roommate and ask to come over, we have started lying to her as well, either saying that we are not going to be home or saying we are going to bed early.

 

I do not want to exclude her but its difficult to include her in things like study session or meeting up to do home work because she will ask, and ask, and ask, and ask question to the point we have trouble getting our own work done.

[blueidealist24]

Oh, wow. It's easy to sympathize with her but if she needs help she should be paying a tutor (or going the professor) and getting help from a counselor or psychiatrist for her depression. She likely did this same thing in undergrad and that's how she got good enough grades to get into the program to begin with (maybe not, but it's highly likely). Anyhow, I would just decline politely if she asks for help, unless you're working on a project together that will affect your grade.. then, I guess you would want to help her since you'd want her to deliver the best material possible. Otherwise, though, I'd just say no.

[Moontiger]

When she asked me for help this last time it was for something really simple. I look at her and said, in a polite tone, "No. You have to get confidence in yourself." She apologized and then just kind of slinked back to her seat.

 

Sigh, I just hope the group project goes well.

[Moontiger]

I should also note that we have meets about the big project about once every two weeks. During these meetings we also go over anything else that needs to be discussed as a group. During the last meeting the facilitator (who my roommate and I spoke with before hand and agree that something had to be done about Emma) brought up "respecting everyone's time" This was directly aimed at Emma but we of course did not want to call her out in front of everyone so it was brought up in a general sense.

 

When he was done speaking Emma said, "Wait, what do you mean?" and the whole room got really quiet for a few seconds, luckily I thought fast and used an example of ME not respecting someone else's time so things didn't get to awkward.

[chitown9]

It could be that she is very insecure and is seeking validation. My daughter experienced the very same situation of being pestered by a coed in grad school. If I recall, she and other classmates grew tired of helping her with time and finally stopped doing it. However, the girl went on to be a professor at a college....so it seems that she could have done the work all along. She just needed reiassurance that she was doing assignments correctly.

 

Maybe the best thing to do is to cut her loose and let her fly on her own. She will either sink or swim.

 

It could just be that you are enabling her from growing..... chi

[Batya33]

I would work with her only if teaching her will help you memorize the material faster or understand it better- only if it benefits you. Keep your distance. I know you heart is in the right place and I know you are being as practical as possible about this but you have to look out for your own best interests - grad programs are hard enough without a time-waster like this person.

[catfeeder]

I went to grad school later in life, so I'd already had plenty of real work experience by the time I needed to deliver group projects.

 

You'll encounter at least one slacker on every project or in every department on any job. I figured out that it's up to me to learn how to manage them, and the first person to run to the boss about them loses because this speaks of an inability to manage work relationships--including those with our clients.

 

So running to the prof is not necessary--and neither is comparing grades. Keep your eyes on your own report card, let the girl burn her bridges with everyone else in your cohort. Those consequences will either become apparent to the prof, or the girl will step up and start managing her school work on her own.

 

As for the group work, consider that most of us have needed to carry someone on nearly every real life project. When the goal is outstanding delivery, the problems you encounter with one dim bulb are common to every other group that your professor has graded. How you and your team 'manage' that person and make it look effortless will be factored into your grade, because in the real world you'll encounter these people--fair or not.

 

I think you're doing a great job to avoid appearing petty, and keep that up. If someone else wants to complain to the prof, let THEM do that--you just keep your focus on your own work, your own grades and your own people skills. If you view this girl as a real world challenge instead of a barrier, you'll lower your frustration, you'll come off like a professional, and you'll thank yourself later.

[Fudgie]

I wonder what the group project entails. You can always let her sink through that, if there's a presentation involved. Tell her what she has to talk about, when the presentation comes, let her fumble in a really humiliating way for a few minutes, and then someone takes over for her. It becomes very obvious to the professor that she isn't pulling her weight, and it doesn't require you to tell at all.

 

I've done this before in college, BTW.

[lavenderdove]

I work in academics and this is simpler than you think. She needs to get thru this program based on her own efforts and not by being carried by someone else otherwise she doesn't deserve the degree because she hasn't really earned it. And she WILL fail in it if she tries to get a job in a field she can't handle, so it is better for her to recognize that now than get fired from a series of jobs she can't handle.

 

So how do you handle it? You unfortunately have to be honest with her, and if it gets awkward it gets awkward. Next time she asks you a question, you tell her you she needs to start learning these things herself without you pre-digesting the info for her because it feels too much like cheating if you keep passing her the answers, so you're not going to do it anymore. Tell her that if she needs help, she needs to hire a tutor. Then you're done. Don't respond to any more texts etc.

 

I personally found group study sessions to be a waste of my time and never did them. As you've discovered, you end up going as slow as the slowest/least prepared person in the room, and it just isn't helpful unless you enjoy spending your time doing that.

 

re: group projects, my suggestion is you assign her some part of the project you think she should be able to do, and then if she falls behind, you contact the professor and tell him what parts were assigned to her and that she is not stepping up and doing her part. Unfortunately all of you will get graded by that project, so you could also make the choice for this one project to just do whatever it takes to get the best grade, then if you are assigned another project with her, go to the professor and ask to be reassigned because of your experiences with her in the past.

 

Some people learn how to manipulate others and that is is far easier to play the delicate flower and cry and throw yourself in other people's laps and let them do the hard work. This girl wants the short cuts rather than putting in the effort she needs to learn. You can actually help this girl by being honest with her and telling her that she needs to earn this degree based on her own efforts, and she must be able to do the work on her own, or she will not be able to function on her own once she gets a job in the field, so you don't intend to carry her or enable her.

 

There are just some people who don't have what it takes to get advanced degrees, hence they shouldn't be awarded them. So don't feel bad about not carrying this woman, because she is required to earn that degree. If she wants the degree bad enough, then let her hire a tutor and really work to learn what she needs to learn. Tutors don't do the work for the student, they teach them how to do it by giving them extra instructions and explanations they may need to understand things.

[lavenderdove]

btw, one other thing is that not all people are equally mentally balanced. There's also a good chance that she is someone who is very needy and LIKES all the attention and interaction. I work with a women like this on my team, and she really doesn't like standing on her own two feet because (a) it is harder for her to do everything herself and (b) she wants the attention/social interaction with other people because she has emotional issues and is quite the narcissist.

 

So don't let her derail you or feel bad about it. You're not her tutor, her parent, her therapist etc., and if she is qualified to earn this degree then she needs to EARN it or perhaps recognize she doesn't have what it takes and needs to go to a less challenging school or else find something else to do with her life if she is really unsuited to this field.

 

The woman I work with finally admitted one day that she doesn't like to do hard or challenging... she just has a very low frustration tolerance and wants to cruise. I suspect this woman you are studying with is the same. She finds it very stressful and displeasing to really grind away and do the work it takes to learn herself. So she throws herself in other people's laps and makes them do it for her. She is also getting A's because she is having 4 or 5 people review her work before she turns it in and making them polish it rather than polishing it herself. So she really isn't doing the work herself or being graded based on her efforts, but on the efforts or those 4 or 5 people who rework her assignments for her. That isn't fair because you all need to be speinding time polishing your own work and not hers.

[Moontiger]

Thank you everyone for your replies!

 

Chitown, yes she is very insecure. I actually think she is capable of passing she just stresses her self out so much that she cannot see the forest through the trees. She has stop asking me and my roommate for help because we have been telling her no. She now kind of going down the list asking each person but more and more of us are not willing to spend our time explaining things to her.

 

Bayta, yup. I have to worry about myself and getting myself through this. I'm currently working on a 25 page research paper that is worth 50% of my grade in one class. I have zero time to deal with others.

 

Catfeeder, I think one of my issues is that things have not been obvious to the professors. They all think she is going great but that is only because of how much help she has gotten. In the context of the conversation regarding her depression that we had with the professor I actually brought that up.

 

As for the group project, it involves something that is being presented to the public and could actually effect the University significantly if we screw up. Given what's on the line I think its important to keep my professor in the loop. I see her as the "manager" and if there is an issue with someone not pulling their weight I think it should be brought to the "managers" attention.

 

Fudgie: If it didn't have real-world consequences that would be the way to go! I'll PM you with details. Trying to keep things vague on the public forum! Lol.

 

Lavender: As always I love your posts! The tricky part with the group project is there is really no one part that one person can do. All of it involves everyone working closely together. (again, sorry to be so vague!). I think now that she isn't asking me for help and everyone else is getting sick of it things will be imporving soon. I feel good I brought up that 4 or 5 people reviewing her work with the professor. I just think they should be aware.

[lifesatrip]

I know this girl is a mess and is extremely obnoxious, but I think people are being overly harsh. Is it really necessary to label her with names such as "dimwit"? It just seems really disrespectful. She's a human being. Clearly she has some growing up to do, but why so much judgement and blame? Who cares whether she "earns" her degree or whether her grades are better when they shouldn't be. In the scheme of things, is this really so important?

 

Who knows why she is the way she is. Perhaps she was abused, or has some kind of developmental problem/disorder. People who have healthy biology and grow up in healthy environments generally don't act like this. I understand the frustration, I'm sure I'd go out of my mind if I was in the class with her, but I feel like this can be handled without completely disrespecting and patronizing her (not that you are doing this Moontiger, it's just the general tone of the thread and the responses).

 

I can relate to her because I am (at times) debilitatingly shy, and have had some severe bouts of lack of self - assurance. There are times (such as at a new job) where I am putting every ounce of my energy into fulfilling my duties and doing a good job, but the fear is so paralyzing that the simplest things are so hard. I see that it irritates people and they loose respect for me. It's like I loose my status as a human being even if people aren't overtly mean. Nice people can be so patronizing. I can't explain how bad it feels. And it becomes a cycle with other's negative opinions reinforcing my negative self image.

 

It's striking that in this thread people are comfortable with branding this girl with mean names. She's clearly a nuisance and it's not a good idea to indulge her negative behaviors, however the judgement, blame, and criticism of this girl felt by complete strangers are practically steaming off of the computer screen. I can only imagine what this girl feels every day when she is confronted by such negative reactions in person. I'm not saying people should be comfortable with or supportive of her behavior, but compassion can go a long way!

 

She's probably not some kind of villainous manipulator, but a lost person who is in a lot of pain. Either way, why not give her the benefit of the doubt. Not to be corny, but why so much hate?

[Fudgie]

^ If you are going through a graduate degree program and you're annoying everyone else with stupid questions instead of DOING THE LEARNING YOURSELF instead of wasting everyone else's time because you think they should teach you concepts then yes, you are a dimwit. I stand by my comment. Graduate and even a big portion of undergraduate study is about independent learning and if she hasn't grasped that yet, then she's clearly in the wrong place.

 

Who cares whether she "earns" her degree? Are you serious? Let's say that it was something like a science degree, and someone was going on to treat people in medicine. Do you care if your own doctor really "earned" his degree or not? Or would you prefer that he was spoon-fed information all through school so his feelings didn't get hurt so now he gets to treat YOU when he hasn't really earned the degree through hard work? I wouldn't want someone like that treating me. It's the principle of the matter. If Moontiger does the work and earns the degree, she deserves that degree. It's a mark of "I've done the work, I'm knowledgeable, I have the skill set." If this girl can't do that, then she shouldn't get the degree. Do you really think it's okay to just coast through and get degrees whether you earn them or not because "in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter". Wow, that's disturbing.

 

I think you are getting overly sensitive because you are shy yourself and need lots of self-assurance, as you've admitted. You need to work on your fear and self confidence. You cannot rely on others to supply that for you in life. Sorry if that's harsh but it's true. In life, people aren't going to hold your hand and give you back pats all the time. If you are feeling that you're somehow losing your "status" as a human being because people may critique your work, that's a problem. Geez, I couldn't imagine being that fragile at my job. At my job, I get yelled at almost weekly by people who are stressed out/angry/upset and I do not take it personally because it's through nothing I've done, it's just the environment I'm in. You need to let things roll off your back. You sound like you have an anxiety issue and maybe you should get that checked out.

 

To be frank, I'm not really too concerned with what the girl thinks....if she was abused/depressed/lazy and that was causing the behaviours, well, who cares, the point is, she needs to fix whatever it is within herself and get better.

 

Whatever your hardships are, it's not an excuse to expect others to do things for you or to be a nuisance. It's called being accountable and professional and this girl is clearly not either. I am not hating her, but the story is irritating to me, because I have dealt with similar nuisances in school and it was always a bother. So I feel for Moontiger.

[catfeeder]

[...] I stand by my comment. [...]

 

Me too. And nobody needs to 'like' anyone's characterizations of someone who attempts to drain their resources in school or on the job. Teamwork requires a contribution, and these are not therapeutic environments.

[lavenderdove]

>>The tricky part with the group project is there is really no one part that one person can do.

 

re: this, when deciding what to do about this, you really need to just use as your guide to do what is best for YOU and don't worry about the rest. I've been on group projects before, and had a lazy (and not too bright) person on the team, and i had to choose between not doing their work for them and us all getting a worse grade, or just picking up the slack for that one group project and doing it and ensuring we all get a better grade. In my case, I chose to just write him off and complete the work and get the better grade because that was better for me. Of course ideally in that situation the person should pull their own weight, but they are who they are and you'll problem just waste your time and breath trying to get them to do it. So I decided the irritation at picking up the slack was a less bad alternative than getting a bad grade. You can inform the professor that you are having to pick up the slack so that she knows, but i wouldn't let my grade suffer and just do what it takes to get thru that one project with her.

 

As long as you avoid all other instances of her taking advantage, and do as much damage control as you can during the group project, that is all you can do. And there is a chance that she'll wash out before next spring anyway, if people stop doing her work for her.

[The_Alchemist]

True leadership is not in always having the best resources to work with. Its when, you have a couple of A's, a bunch of B's and a couple of C's.

 

When one gets into a leadership position in the real world projects, one has to try to bring the C's to perform their best. This also means that you support them, try to make them understand the things that they do not understand and get the best out of them as well.

 

No projects and people are perfect and at the same level. This is how it is. Fair or Unfair.

 

Now you have two choice, either to just pass your exams like an ordinary student and face these challenges in the real world or else, you try to develop your leadership abilities by acting out the lead of the project and get the maximum out of the girl. This will need more effort on your part but more learning as well.

 

Your Choice.

[mhowe]

Many graduate programs are geared toward "teaching" the group dynamic, and it is a skill necessary in the real world.

 

In that regard, this chick's participation in the group project will have to be managed in order to make sure she carries some weight.

 

However, daily/weekly studying ---- it does not behoove anyone to do her work for her, check her work, nor give her the answers. Because it will all come

out in the testing process anyway.

 

Life isn't a meritocracy --- although perhaps it should be. And a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. But there isn't a compelling argument for

putting in your own hard work, sweat and time and letting the person next to you ride on your coattails.