Girl in my class driving me crazy

[Fudgie]

Exactly, group dynamic does not = letting the dimwits ride on your coattails. It's about supporting each other as everyone pulls their own weight. This girl isn't doing that.

 

Sent from Tapatalk

[lifesatrip]

Ok, from that perspective I get what you're saying about the importance of actually earning the degree

 

I never said that anyone's hardships were an excuse to get others to do one's work etc. I said Moontiger should not support her mooching, but at the same time should try to have compassion for her. I understand that this girl's behavior is really obnoxious, but it doesn't sit right with me to discuss her with blatant disrespect (such as name calling), and that's not just because I have an over-sensitivity problem. Calling someone names is cruel. I understand that this girl will not read this comment, but others who are in similar shoes might. It might make them feel really bad.

 

You tell me I have a problem and need to get help as if I don't know that. For years I've been struggling with everything in me to overcome my social anxiety and low self-esteem. Counseling, support group, throwing myself into difficult social situations, joining Toastmasters, joining classes, reading self help books, going abroad (solo) many times, volunteering, working in jobs where I have to put myself out there (and get yelled at), etc. etc. While I do not expect people to hold my hand, I really do take issue with blatant disrespect. I never said I fall apart when my work is critiqued (I do not), it's more that I feel really bad if/when people loose respect for me and start patronizing me. From the tone of your comment I don't get the sense that you know what it's like to struggle with such deep rooted lack of self confidence.

 

I can tell you that as I start to unravel the mystery of why I feel so bad about myself, one major contributing factor is all the negative, judgmental messages that, though not necessarily directed at me, constantly circulate throughout our society. Seemingly small things like this can have a large impact. They build up under one's awareness. I might be more sensitive to it than another person, but that doesn't mean my sensitivity is totally illegitimate. You say this girl needs to fix herself, I say that would be a lot easier for her and people like her if people (in general) were less judgmental and disrespectful. (Yes, I know her behavior is disrespectful, but I feel like there are ways to not tolerate that without stooping to the level of disrespect).

 

I know this girl's behavior sucks, but the suffering she causes those in her vicinity is likely nothing compared to what she is dealing with. I understand not wanting to make her issues a personal problem, but at least respect her vulnerability and the vulnerability of others reading this board who might relate to her.

[lifesatrip]

One more thing (and then I'll stop because I don't want to hijack the thread). This whole subject makes me think of the stark difference between how we perceive people who have a diagnosed disorder which makes them act in a socially inappropriate way and how we perceive people who do not. We would never speak disrespectfully about someone diagnosed with a disability. However when a person without such a diagnoses acts in an undesirable way, people are so quick to criticize, blame etc. How do we know there's really such a great difference between these two categories? Perhaps at times it is only a difference of scale. People who have suffered terrible abuse often do not fit under the criteria of an easily recognized, diagnosed disorder, but abuse seriously messes with one's brain. Such a person may not necessarily be able to "fix themselves." It depends on the person (and their access or perceived access to support etc). I understand the need for personal accountability, but I think the line is very blurred when it comes to what actually causes people's behavior. If we are healthy it is easy to see how the person could act better, but in their reality they may be doing the best they can.

[mhowe]

Lifesatrip...you should start your own thread. Because this is hijacking an unworthy candidate in a Masters program with your own social anxiety issues and victimology.

[lifesatrip]

Lifesatrip...you should start your own thread. Because this is hijacking an unworthy candidate in a Masters program with your own social anxiety issues and victimology.

 

I already said I would stop my tangent, but to be fair, I think it is valid to bring personal experience into the discussion. I was just trying to describe where I'm coming from. I wouldn't have gone on at length about my own problems a 2nd time if Fudgie hadn't responded to that part at length. Though what I wrote is in some ways a tangent, I feel it is also relevant to the initial question, which is why I posted it in this thread.

[journeynow]

There may be a way you can say no without it getting weird that would be setting boundaries at the same time.

 

when she asks me question now I just give one word answers. The other day she asked someone a really stupid question, were had to write a short essay on a particular piece of architecture and she asked this other person, "Is it X style?" now this is a style we have been studying all year, so literally all you have to do is look at the building and see if it has certain features. I could not help myself, I jumped in and said, "Does it have the feature of X style?" She then started listing the features and then look at me to see if I would confirm it. I just said, "If you can make the argument you're fine."

 

Moontiger, you handled that like a pro! Maybe that's ALL you have to do, answer her questions with a question. Even "What do you think?" might be enough. You may find she'll ask less.

 

Basically if she struggles we are going to go to the professor running the project and make it clear Emma is not pulling her own weight.

Why not have a group meeting with her first before going to the professor, and express your concern that she's not pulling her weight and why. Explain if she needs special help it cannot be on group time, or at the detriment of the group, nor add to your workload. Perhaps she could hire one of you to tutor her at a specific time. Win/win?

 

Many graduate programs are geared toward "teaching" the group dynamic, and it is a skill necessary in the real world.

 

In that regard, this chick's participation in the group project will have to be managed in order to make sure she carries some weight.

 

However, daily/weekly studying ---- it does not behoove anyone to do her work for her, check her work, nor give her the answers. Because it will all come

out in the testing process anyway.

 

I agree that this situation can translate to real world dynamics, and it's great to build the skills to handle this early on. The excessive questioning reminds me of a few clients and colleagues I've known who've wanted hand-holding. It helps to come up with several standard "No" answers so you are not caught by surprise or put on the spot.

 

True leadership is not in always having the best resources to work with. Its when, you have a couple of A's, a bunch of B's and a couple of C's.

 

When one gets into a leadership position in the real world projects, one has to try to bring the C's to perform their best. This also means that you support them, try to make them understand the things that they do not understand and get the best out of them as well.

 

No projects and people are perfect and at the same level. This is how it is. Fair or Unfair.

 

Now you have two choice, either to just pass your exams like an ordinary student and face these challenges in the real world or else, you try to develop your leadership abilities by acting out the lead of the project and get the maximum out of the girl. This will need more effort on your part but more learning as well.

 

Right, you may be able to turn this into a plus for you, by learning more than just the assigned projects. If you feel a need to talk to the professor about her, you might do it in a way that you ask for suggestions on how to get her to contribute more to the group. After all, the professor has experience and may have some good suggestions.

[Moontiger]

Update guys!

 

So, the first part of our project is due after Thanksgiving. Me one other person on the team spoke regarding Emma and came up with a game plan. This other person is extremely detail oriented so we "suggested" that before you turn in the this first part that she look it over "for all of us". Basically, this allowes us to edit/change anything Emma produced for this part of the project.

[Moontiger]

I hate to be back on this thread. But she is at it again. Appearently she got a C on an assigment that she didn't ask for help on and she is spirling out of control again.

[Fudgie]

What's going on? Is she bothering you again?

 

You may want to refer her towards your professor. Say "I'm not really good at explaining it, he/she's a lot better at it than I am! Go to his office hours!" Use that to brush her off.

[Moontiger]

Well, she hasn't come to me....yet. Well, she kind of did, let me explain.

 

So, day every realised there is a VERY small easy assigment due on monday that we all completely missed. So, we were all working on it in the room where we have most of our classes. There were five of use including Emma. And she kept freaking out, and I mean this assigment was soooooo easy, literally took me 10 minuets to do. Any we are working and she looks as me and this is the conversation:

 

Her: "Is this OK?"

Me: "Does it have X, Y, Z?"

Her: "It has (example os X, Y, and Z). Is it OK?"

Me: "What do you think?"

Here: "I'm asking what you think."

Me: "Girl, you have to get confident in yourself." *turn around and continue my work*

 

After this I walked to buy some food with another person in my class. They told me that Emma came over to their place the other night to "bounce ideas off of" for something that isn't due for two weeks. He told her he hand't even thought about it yet and wound't until next week. Her response was "Think about it now."

[Fudgie]

Wow, she's relentless. I would definitely not entertain her, AT ALL. If you give her the message that you're even slightly helpful, you'll be bombarded. I like the way that you handled her the way that you mentioned, and turned around and got back to work. Keep doing that. Do not engage

[Moontiger]

Relentless is a goodword for her. Sigh, ya, will not engage!

[abitbroken]

I would be blunt at this point. "Emma, I am not doing your work for you." She is beyond the point of the one word answers working.

[journeynow]

Her: "Is this OK?"

Me: "Does it have X, Y, Z?"

Her: "It has (example os X, Y, and Z). Is it OK?"

Me: "What do you think?"

Here: "I'm asking what you think."

Me: "Girl, you have to get confident in yourself." *turn around and continue my work*

 

After this I walked to buy some food with another person in my class. They told me that Emma came over to their place the other night to "bounce ideas off of" for something that isn't due for two weeks. He told her he hand't even thought about it yet and wound't until next week. Her response was "Think about it now."

 

Moontiger, once again you handled it well! She DOES need to find confidence in herself. You might even tell her "Stop, you are spreading stress and it is not helpful to you or anyone else." It might be good, if you can, to then point out something helpful she sometimes does and can do instead.

 

(She sounds SO MUCH like a client of mine... )

[Moontiger]

Moontiger, once again you handled it well! She DOES need to find confidence in herself. You might even tell her "Stop, you are spreading stress and it is not helpful to you or anyone else." It might be good, if you can, to then point out something helpful she sometimes does and can do instead.

 

(She sounds SO MUCH like a client of mine... )

 

Here is the super funny part of all this. The other day I casually mention, in a completely normal tone of voice, that I was worried about finding a job after graduation. She told me I needed to calm down!

[BigKK]

Hmmm... I have a few comments, being 29 and back in college, not necessarily agreeing with everyone!

 

1. At least she's TRYING, she's not trying the right way, but hell she's putting in some effort in squeezing the info out of you. If she was a complete slacker she wouldn't be asking for help, she is definitely leaning too much on everyone else to help get her through it.

 

2. I look at school as some extension of real life, you're going to encounter Emma's again, and you will get better and better at dealing with them.

 

3. in few years you won't really remember her at all!

 

4. my favorite way to deal with this was written by lavender, I think in this day and age you don't want to make things "awkward" but it seems like this may be a problem for you if you don't squash it soon, for however long you're in grad school (at least a year right?) I would talk to her calmly and just lay it out for her, I don't know if that's your personality.

But you have two routes, either continue keeping her on ignore, or call her butt out and let her know that you think it'll be better for HER if she starts making her own decisions and that you won't be helping her with her assignments, by doing so you will be actually helping her. Since you won't always be there to help her with issues when she has a job...so she better learn how to figure it out on her own. At this point she will either accept it, or realize you're a dead end, either way you should be scott free! If not you can just create more threads!

[Silvia2010]

Ignore her completely